| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1nodaishoAug 29, 2008 15:54:28 | I am making a zen archer for a game on these boards, and while I think I have a decent one, I would like to know if anyone has suggestions. I was considering taking a level in cloistered cleric and going persistent DMM with the chameleon's spells, but that seems just a bit on the gouda side, if everyone else is making highly optimized characters, I might change my mind.
|
| #2deathlessjuanAug 29, 2008 16:14:35 | Two spells will be your friend if you are taking Chameleon and getting DMM (Persist). Arrow Mind and Arrow Storm (Complete Adventurer). Read them a have fun. Even if you don't get DMM, memorize a lot of Arrow Storms if you plan on taking on lots of enemies at once. |
| #3nodaishoAug 29, 2008 18:12:45 | Wow, Arrow mind is decent, though not quite as good as it would be without the True Archer class, but Arrow Storm is just mean. That can be persisted? But then you couldn't persist Divine Might, since that is a cleric spell rather than a ranger spell, and I would have to take a level in cleric to get enough turn undead charges to DMM either of them, which would drop my BAB to 15 rather than 16, which would mean I would need divine might to get 10 (4 + rapid shot + splitting) attacks on one enemy. Though, I suppose, I don't need complete volume of fire, since I am using power attack with my bow, three or four shots with a good power attack would probably be better than five with little power attack. Should I get the fourth level of True Archer and the second of Fighter before going chameleon? Then I would be able to nab specialization and RWM if I took another flaw for weapon focus (longbow). Then I go straight to 10 in chameleon, taking the last level of true archer at 20. If I took fighter 2 at 9 so I qualified for both specialization and RWM I would get +2 to hit and +4 to damage, if I remember correctly. |
| #4carnivoreAug 29, 2008 18:53:01 | i like the True Archer (Racial Paragon Class)... and it is a great idea to combine it with Chameleon.... but remember... when you gain access to Arcane spells from Chameleon.. you need to have at least 16 Int.. to cast all the spells possible from Chameleon i would suggest adjusting the scores as follows: Str: 10 (+0) (2) Dex: 14 (+2) (6) Con: 14 (+2) (6) Int: 14 (+4) (6) Wis: 19 (+4) (10) Cha: 10 (+0) (2) not only do you not lose very much... but you Gain a lot(Skill points and only need +2 Int item to cast 6th lvl spells) also instead of Power Attack @ 6th lvl... take Knowledge Devotion... it will assist Archery far more... it gives an Insight bonus to ATTACK and DAMAGE for ALL Attacks... and it gives you an additional Knowledge Skill as a Class Skill the faster you complete Chameleon the better... since the Combat Focus will help + Ability Boon = Combat Focus: You gain proficiency with all martial weapons. You also gain a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls and a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. At 5th level, the bonuses improve to +4. Ability Boon (Ex): At 4th level, when choosing an aptitude focus, you also gain a +2 competence bonus to an ability score of your choice. This bonus lasts until you change your aptitude focus. At 7th level this bonus improves to +4, and at 10th level to +6. :D |
| #5deathlessjuanAug 29, 2008 18:56:31 | Don't forget that Chameleon's get a bonus feat at second level that you can change everyday, as needed. Its good when you have extend spell and persist taking normally and you can nab DMM(persist) on the days you know you will need to persist some spells. I believe Divine Power can be persisted, but only with DMM (or in epic levels). If I am wrong, I need to see that errata so I can fix one of my character sheets, pronto, lol. If it still can be persisted, you'll want to nab a Nightstick (only get one, don't push your DM without asking first) and maybe Extra turning (or an item that grants it) to get those extra turn attempts. If you don't need DMM, you should go for a greatbow (Complete Warrior). You'll need exotic weapon prof for it, but it does 1d10 dmg (medium) and has a range of 120ft (130ft if composite). you need to have at least 16 Int.. to cast all the spells possible from Chameleon No worries with that. Getting a +6 to you Int (or wisdom, for divine spells) is easy with the ability boon. Also, at level 7 (when you can adopt two aspects) you get to apply the ability boon to a second ability score, since you get the 'ability boon' whenever you adopt an aspect. Key words to look at when choosing an aptitude focus and At 7th level, you can adopt two aptitude focuses in the same amount of time it previously took for you to adopt one. |
| #6carnivoreAug 29, 2008 18:58:10 | always try to Extend with a Rod of Extend a DMM(Persistant) spell... thus it lasts 2 days... and you can change your Feat the Next day :D |
| #7carnivoreAug 29, 2008 19:08:09 | i realize that you prefer to avoid Psionics.... but you might like this: Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ True Archer 5/ Soulbow 1/ Shiba protector 1/ Chameleon 10 2x Wis to Attack(zen archery + Shiba) 2x Wis to Damage(Shiba + Soulbow) Wis to AC you can still use regular Bows... and keep your Mind Arrows for Backup without using Chameleon... it would look like this: Monk 3/ Soulknife 2/ True Archer 5/ Soulbow 8/ Shiba protector 1/ Cragtop Archer 1 with Tashalatora .... get Greater Flurry as well ... and with Flowing Blade... Flurry with Mind Arrows ... :D |
| #8carnivoreAug 29, 2008 19:09:55 | No worries with that. Getting a +6 to you Int (or wisdom, for divine spells) is easy with the ability boon. Also, at level 7 (when you can adopt two aspects) you get to apply the ability boon to a second ability score, since you get the 'ability boon' whenever you adopt an aspect. but when you are focusing on Wis... you want to Pump it as high as possible... so the +6 goes to Wis all the time.. never to Int :D |
| #9nodaishoAug 29, 2008 20:46:23 | I considered Soulbow earlier on, seems good now. I would have to ask if soulbow would be allowed, they don't have psionic powers, just flavor. The soulbow bonus damage would only be on mind arrows, right? Are mind arrows force effects? I forget. That would be useful, a force bow for nothing, and decent damage, though not as good as with the normal bow. |
| #10deathlessjuanAug 30, 2008 0:02:52 | but when you are focusing on Wis... you want to Pump it as high as possible... so the +6 goes to Wis all the time.. never to Int Yes, but at 7th level, when you adopt two aspects, you get two +6 to add to your stats (cant be the same stat you add both to). Also, the ability boon is not an enhancement bonus, so get an amulet of wisdom +6 or something (i recommend making it into a headband of wisdom +6 instead) so you can get ammy of natural armor too. +6 to Wis AND +6 to Int make for a very happy Arcane and Divine Aspect Chameleon. And when you are done with the Arcane, drop it and take Combat and switch that +6 from Int to whatever |
| #11sir_argenonAug 30, 2008 12:02:02 | where is "true archer" from, or did you make that up? |
| #12reisAug 30, 2008 12:23:17 | seems like it is a "homebrew" prestige class specific to his campaign |
| #13sir_argenonAug 30, 2008 13:19:32 | seems like it is a "homebrew" prestige class specific to his campaign yeah, i was just making sure. it seems pretty nice. |
| #14nodaishoAug 30, 2008 19:22:34 | Yeah, it helps with the major problems archers have, bonus damage. Hank's bow can use power shots, but that is the only other way I know to get it, besides 3.0 peerless. |
| #15nodaishoSep 03, 2008 15:45:11 | Sorry for the double post, but I was wondering something. Carnivore mentioned wanting 16 int for the arcane focus, what spells do they have that I would need? I was planning on just using divine focus. |
| #16carnivoreSep 03, 2008 16:18:52 | try these: Core Spells at Lower than Normal Levels: Bard: 1st: Undetectable Alignment 2nd: Heroism, Suggestion, Tongues 3rd: Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Good Hope, Scrying 4th: Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Legend Lore 5th: Greater Dispel Magic, Shadowwallk, Mass Suggestion 6th: Mass Charm Monster, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Greater Scrying, Project Image, Greater Shout Paladin: 1st: Lesser Restoration 2nd: - 3rd: Discern Lies, Greater Magic Weapon 4th: - Ranger: 1st: Delay Poison, Resist Energy, Embrace the Wild(CV) 2nd: Protection from Energy, Speak with Plants 3rd: - 4th: Animal Growth, Commune with Nature, Tree Stride Adept - Very cool divine list!: 1st: Burning Hands, Sleep 2nd: Scorching Ray, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Web 3rd: Lightning Bolt 4th: Polymorph, Stoneskin, Wall of Fire 5th: Commune, Heal, Major Creation, True Seeing Hexblade: 1st: Tasha's Hideous Laughter 2nd: 3rd: 4th: Baleful Polymorph Interesting Persistable Spells: Arrowmind: 1st level Ranger Spell(CV) Haste, Swift: 2nd level Ranger Spell(CV) Listening Lorecall: 2nd level Ranger/Druid(CV) How to learn all the spells you want: Take the Extra Spell feat, write the spell in your spellbook. Change your feat the next day. Even works with Divine spells that you want to cast with your Arcane Focus. From NineInchNall. Arcane spells~ and remember @ Chameleon 10 you have a Caster level of 20 :D |
| #17nodaishoSep 03, 2008 20:13:53 | Oooh, nice. Of course, by the time I pick any non-combat focus, I will be 5th level in the class, so it isn't immediately necessary. I don't see anything there that is more useful than a permanent +2 to hit and damage, when we already have a few casters. |
| #18jaronkSep 03, 2008 23:58:32 | You need to use Persistant Guided Shot with Chain of Eyes. Tag targets from a mile away with no penalties! JaronK |
| #19nodaishoSep 06, 2008 21:27:39 | I noticed a problem here. I need Bluff and Disguise as class skills from something, because otherwise I will only have a maximum of 5 ranks in them. I forgot that able learner still makes you have half the normal ranks in a cross-class skill. Any advice? Otherwise I would have to wait until 13th level to take any levels in chameleon, which won't exactly work well. |
| #20brainpiercingSep 08, 2008 2:40:00 | I noticed a problem here. I need Bluff and Disguise as class skills from something, because otherwise I will only have a maximum of 5 ranks in them. I forgot that able learner still makes you have half the normal ranks in a cross-class skill. Any advice? Otherwise I would have to wait until 13th level to take any levels in chameleon, which won't exactly work well. Well, you need at least one level in a class with that as a class skill. Your max rannks are then always ChaLvl+3. It doesn't need to be the final level before Chameleon for a skill-dump. However, you can probably find good ACFs or sub-levels that change around class-skills if you go with your original, non-psionic route. |
| #21nodaishoSep 08, 2008 21:12:08 | I could take a level in rogue, which would give both of the skills I need, but I feel like I should keep my BAB at +16 at 20th, for 4 iteratives before feats and magic, am I off on the importance of that? If I took feat rogue, I could drop a level of fighter for the rogue, and have the same feat total at the end. Pity we aren't going with Fractional BAB, I would have 12 levels in 3/4 BAB classes, perfect. |
| #22carnivoreSep 09, 2008 5:05:20 | I noticed a problem here. I need Bluff and Disguise as class skills from something, because otherwise I will only have a maximum of 5 ranks in them. I forgot that able learner still makes you have half the normal ranks in a cross-class skill. Any advice? Otherwise I would have to wait until 13th level to take any levels in chameleon, which won't exactly work well. try these feats: [indent] City Slicker[General] (RoD p150)req:1st Level only Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, and Knowledge (local) are always class skills for you. Criminal Background(City of Stormreach) Bluff, Open Lock, and Sleight of Hand are Always class Skills. Also, you can make a DC 15 Sense Motive check and "Ascertain any criminal motives". in addition you gain +4 to Gather Info checks involving Crime or Criminals. [/indent] using just this: Human Moonwarded Ranger 2/ True Archer 3/ Fighter 1 Flaws: Vulnerable Feats: Able learner(human bonus) Track(ranger bonus) Rapid Shot(Ranger bonus) Point Blank Shot(True Archer bonus) Precise Shot(True Archer bonus) Power Attack(fighter bonus) 1st lvl: City Slicker 3rd lvl: Criminal Background 6th lvl: Knowledge Devotion you will have decent Archery abilities and can right into Chameleon at 7th lvl :D |
| #23nodaishoSep 09, 2008 22:18:30 | Moonwarded ranger means I lose rapid shot, so that build doesn't work right. Could take another flaw, but I am questioning the idea of dropping Shiba protector, that gives +4 to hit and damage right off the bat, and it goes up when I buff wisdom. That is almost the same as the 5th level combat focus, as it is right now. Also, I don't have the book knowledge devotion is in. I could just do rogue like I was thinking of doing, I would lose 1 BAB, putting me at 4, and a d6 HD rather than D10, but with rapid shot, I would still be getting 8 shots per round with splitting, which is pretty good, especially when you can pump each of them up with power attack, and any missed shots mean another +4 bonus to hit for the rest. Is that a really bad idea? |
| #24carnivoreSep 10, 2008 5:31:57 | sorry about that.... i didnt have access to Moonwarded ranger(didnt know how it differed from regular Ranger) Splitting is a +3 Bonus value Enhancement... thus a cost of 32,000 gp for a +1 Splitting longbow.... but @ 6th lvl you wont have that much... you wont get enough to Buy it until 9th lvl minimum(36000 GP wealth per level)... more realisticly you wont have it until 11th lvl the main problem with adding Shiba Protector.... it requires Feats that are not helpful directly to an Archery Build(IIRC, Alertness, Iron Will, Combat Expertise)... i dont see those in your previous build just focus on Full BAB and boost Direct Arrow Damage with Small Boosts... from Equipment..... Chameleon will do the Rest... initially Combat Focus will help the Most, then the Ability Boon will be a major boost combined with the Variable Feat using this will still be very nice ... even without Shiba protector: Rogue(Feat Variant) 2/ Moonwarded Ranger 2/ True Archer 4/ Fighter 2/ Chameleon 10 gives lots of feats, qualifies for entry into Chameleon @6th lvl... progression could be: Rogue 1 Rogue 1 Moonwarded Ranger Moonwarded Ranger True Archer 1 Chameleon 1 Chameleon 2 Chameleon 3 Chameleon 4 Chameleon 5 Chameleon 6 Chameleon 7 Chameleon 8 Chameleon 9 Chameleon 10 Fighter 1 Fighter 2 True Archer 2 True Archer 3 True Archer 4 this way you gain: 6th lvl spells(Arcane and Divine) @20th lvl Caster @ 15th lvl!!!!..... and Great Archery on top of it the best way to take advantage of this is to use Divine Metamagic(persistant) for some of your Buffs... but this requires : 1)multiple Nightsticks 2)Dip into class that gives Turn Undead(Cleric) you might try this: Rogue(Feat Variant) 2/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ Moonwarded Ranger 2/ True Archer 4/ Fighter 1/ Chameleon 10 domains: Planning..... bonus Extend Spell War .......... bonus Weapon Focus(bow) Knowledge ... loose domain, gain Knowledge Devotion Feat you loose 1 pt of BAB... but gain Persistant Buffs and some extra Feats :D |
| #25nodaishoSep 11, 2008 22:08:49 | Wow. How did I miss those requirements on the shiba protector? I know that a splitting bow is a +3, I was meaning that I wouldn't get 4 iteratives, but with rapid shot and splitting, I would still get 8 shots once I got to whatever level gets me +11 BAB. I think I might go with the first build you posted, though I want to take a second level of true archer before entering chameleon, for the power attacks. I still get 20th level caster at 16th, before most others would, and I don't think I will go with DMM:persist, because it seems like it is above the optimization level everyone else is at. Of course, it is also seeming like it might not be worth going zen archer if I am not taking shiba, since that means no wisdom to damage, I think I am going to need to change a lot to do decently now, any advice on that front? |
| #26nodaishoSep 14, 2008 21:39:09 | Sorry for the double post, but I think I got a decent build with this, not as good as the last one, but this one has the small advantage of being legal. I am not sure what knowledge skill to pick for knowledge devotion, any suggestions? Also, are there any bows other than the bow of the wintermoon and Hank's bow that adjust for your strength bonus? Bow of the wintermoon doesn't fit with the character, as he isn't from Toril, and Hank's bow isn't available at my level, though it might be nice to get eventually. Archian Feat Rogue 2/Moonwarded Ranger 2/True Archer2/Chameleon 1 (eventually) Rogue2/Ranger2/archer4/Fighter2/Chameleon10 (BAB 16) 7 bonus feats (2 rogue, 2 archer, 2 fighter, 1 chameleon) Str: 12 (+1) (4) Dex: 14 (+2) (6) Con: 14 (+2) (6) Int: 12 (+0) (4) Wis: 19 (+4) (10) Cha: 10 (0) (2) Initiative modifier: +6 Reflex save: +11 Fort save: +8 Will save: +4 Melee attack: +6 Ranged attack: +9 AC: 22 = 10 + 2 [dex] + 4 [wis] + 6 [armor] HP: 60 Weapons +1 mighty +1 composite longbow: 1d8+3, +10 to hit Armor +1 Mithral Breastplate +6 AC Feats and abilities Able Learner (flaw) Point Blank Shot (1) Improved Initiative (1) Rapid Shot (rogue 1) Knowledge devotion (rogue 2) Track (Ranger 1) Zen Archery (3) Wisdom to AC (Ranger 2) Precise Shot (True Archer 1) Power Attack (6) 19000gp Mithral Breastplate +1 (6250) +1 composite longbow (2700) 40 Silver arrows (82) 40 Cold Iron arrows (4) 120 arrows (6) 40 Serpenttongue arrows (6) Hewards Handy Haversack (2000) Periapt of wisdom +2 (4000) Quiver of Ehlonna (1800) (contains 30 normal arrows, 10 silver, 10 cold iron, 10 serpenttongue) 17848 spent Skills: (72/78) Bluff 10 Disguise 8 Sense Motive 10 Spellcraft 4 Spot: 10 Knowledge: ?? 10 Knowledge: nature 10 Knowledge: local 10 |
| #27carnivoreSep 15, 2008 5:11:33 | as for Feats .... try this: Feats and abilities Able Learner (flaw) Knowledge devotion (1) Education(1) Point Blank Shot (rogue 1) Rapid Shot (rogue 2) Track (Ranger 1) Zen Archery (3) Wisdom to AC (Ranger 2) Precise Shot (True Archer 1) Power Attack (6) this gives you ALL knowledge Skills as class skills, and gives +2 with one knowledge skill, also it fits with the bonus feats that you are allowed..... the bonus feats for the Feat Rogue variant must be from the list of Fighter bonus feats.... you cant take General feats with them as for skills .... try this: 72 skill points 8 ranks Bluff 8 ranks Disguise 5 ranks Sense Motive 5 ranks Spellcraft 10 ranks Spot 5 ranks Knowledge(Arcana) 5 ranks Knowledge(Dungeoneering) 5 ranks Knowledge(Geography) 5 ranks Knowledge(Local) 5 ranks Knowledge(Nature) 5 ranks Knowledge(Religion) 5 ranks Knowledge(The Planes) 1 rank UMD the thing to remember with Knowledge Skills.... it is a Trained Only skill... if you dont have ranks in it, you cant make a Check personally, i would go with a different Stat array ... like this: Str: 10 (+0) (2) Dex: 14 (+2) (6) Con: 14 (+2) (6) Int: 14 (+4) (6) Wis: 19 (+4) (10) Cha: 10 (+0) (2) to get More Skills and a boost to Skill checks... :D |
| #28nodaishoSep 15, 2008 16:32:33 | Whoops, forgot that feats from rogue need to be on the fighter feat list. I think I will go with the stat array and feats you suggested, which would also give me an extra 10 skill points, could get all of the knowledges up to 6, and a couple to seven. How would I tell which one I should take the +2 on from education? |
| #29carnivoreSep 16, 2008 5:20:36 | pick the one that has the most common enemies you will encounter :D |