[Help] Monk Attack Bonus - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[Help] Monk Attack Bonus

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
palanolho
May 25, 2008 8:52:25 Greetings everyone.

Currently im playing a monk at lv 18 and my party is in a stace of facing big dragons.

The problem is that big dragons have big AC and i just have +24 attack bonus.
(12 bab + 8 wis + 4 magic weapon)

My char uses WIS instead of STR to attack and currently i have 26 wisdom.

Is there any way to increse my attack bonus by spells?
On my party i have a sorcerer with lv 7 spells a cleric with lv 7 spells and a druid with lv 7 spells

thanks in advance.

(i searched the board but didnt find anything, or maybe i didnt search the right keywords)
#2
lordmaul
May 25, 2008 9:16:20 a) is your Wis as high as possible? You have plenty of cash- get the +6 periapt and the +4 Tome.

b)TOUCH ATTACKS. I doubt you can beat a dragon's Fort save, but I believe you can use Quivering Palm as a touch attack.

c)Dragon Bane weaponry

d)redo your sheet- what with PrCs and synergistic base classes, you should have at LEAST +14 BaB right now (always aiming for +16 by level 20)

e) Buy a stone of Use activated, quickened True Strike (expensive, as it is a 4th level spell, but not beyond your reach)

f) Flank

g) Divine Power (you'll need it in item form to use)

h) Statistics. You are making 5+ attacks per round, each with a 5% chance of auto-hitting. As a Monk, you should really never be hit (except by the same luck). Pump your damage, pump your AC, and let numbers do it for ya.

i) on that note, get a speed enhancement on your fists, or an item of continuous Haste (which also gives a +1 attack bonus, btw)

j) teamwork. If your sorc can paralyze the dragon for one round, everyone gets coup de graces.

Okay, there's ten for ya, and that's only a small amount of what is out there. Hope it helps.
#3
palanolho
May 25, 2008 10:00:53 unfortunatly my monk has the Vow of poverty ( bad choise for high levels i know .. i just reallized now ...). can only benefit from tactics and spells
#4
theabyssdragon
May 25, 2008 15:44:30 Just have your cleric buff you up before combat. There are tons of cleric spells that give a boost to attack (and a good bit of them to damage as well), and it's not too hard to find different source types so they stack.

Also, if he's a team player, you should always have Greater Mighty Wallop active.
#5
erhnamdj
May 25, 2008 19:18:35 Why do your level eighteen spellcasters only have seventh level spells? That's just horrible. Try and get a psychic reformation to get rid of that vow of poverty. You could just... break the vow. It's nigh useless at that level, anyway.

You'll get +2 attack for charging, +2 attack for flanking, you could get a big bunch of extra attack from a bard or a polymorph spell.

You're using wisdom instead of strength for attack. That has two consequences: the first is that wisdom is much more difficult to raise than strength and the second is that if you do switch to using strength (perhaps because you were polymorphed), you would have a wasted feat.

Hmm... your base attack is twelve? At level eighteen? What other class did you dip for that to be the case?

What books can we use? What are the other party members classes? They screwed themselves over big time if they each only have access to seventh level spells. Do you have any money on you that hasn't been donated to charity yet? We may end up spending that. To help you, we need to know everything.
#6
ChristopherGroves
May 25, 2008 20:59:22 Owl's Insight (Spell compendium) should be good for another bump to your WIS. It's insight and not enchantment, so that's goodness.
#7
lordmaul
May 25, 2008 22:56:53 wait... when does VoP give that +8 enhancement to a stat? If you already have that... then what with +4 from levels, to have a 26 in Wis, you could only have started with a 14... is that right? It's not a bad score, but considering how easy it is to hit 30 by that point...
#8
vicen_korel
May 26, 2008 0:11:38 palanolho I think we need more information to really pump this out for you. If you could post your complete build, and some idea of what's in your party we can give you more tactical information on how to take this on and be useful as something other than a meat shield.

Even though you have VoP someone else could cast wish on you. You know without you paying for it or anything as you can benefit from spells others cast on you, and it won't violate your vow becuase you still don't own anything. That way you could still get your +4 (+5) inherent bonus and not have to use a tome. Truthfully it's cheaper to buy the 5 wish spells than it is to buy the +5 tome. 137,500 gp for the tome, 133,100 gp (CL 18 x 90 gp (9th level spell) + 25,000 gp (5,000 exp) = 26,620 gp per wish x 5 wishes = 133,100 gp) for the wish spells for a savings of 4,400 gp, not a lot but still a gp saved is a gp earned.
#9
palanolho
May 26, 2008 3:14:06 wow ! so many posts while i was sleeping :D

Our party tend to roleplay so, sometimes the chars are not as good as they should ( and sometimes the DM, that also like to roleplay, forgets that). We are on the last chapter of Age of Worms. the one where we suposly need to "kill" Kyuss.

the party is:
- sorcerer 5/ war weaver 5/ bounded summoner (the bonded summoner .. we ... he liked the prestige...)
- Goliath druid / Stone Shape Guardiam (the druid prestige for Goliath from Races of Stone)
- Beguiler / Rainbow servent ( he cancast ANY cleric spells but well he loses the lv9 slot )

Im a Monk 13/ tattoo 5 (the tattos are not that great but .. it was more for the roleplay )

Here is the details of my char:

Stats:
11 str
20 dex (16+4_vow)
16 con (14+2_vow)
13 int
26 wis (16+4_lv+6_vow)
12 cha

AC = 46 (10+8_wis+5_dex+3_monk+3_vow_deflect+10_vow_armor+2_vow_natural+5_manuver)
Flat= 46 (i have a feat that let me retain dex even when flatfooted)
Touch = 34

Graple: +25 (improved grapple + dex + bab + bonus from manuver)
Trip: +16 (improved trip + dex + bonus from manuver)

Tattoos: Wasp (haste effect), tiger (+1 hit, +1d6 damage), dragon ( this tattoo has a costum power that the DM created, but he doesnt tell me what it is ... its a long roleplay story, so right now, its a useless tattoo)

Have all the benefits of vow of Poverty up to lv18

the "manuvers" you see me refering here, are from the "martial artist system"

We can use all books and usually Dragon Magasins too. But as allways DM aproval is needed. "Wizards of the Coast" books are prefered.

Tell me what else do you need to know about the char and ill do it!
#10
erhnamdj
May 26, 2008 4:27:48 Do the other players realize how much they have hurt their characters by choosing those prestige classes (or the goliath race for a... druid)?
#11
palanolho
May 26, 2008 5:25:57 we are not experts on the matter, actually this was our first campaigh ever in any roleplay...

next time im sure we will know it best, but for now .. we have to do what we can :S
#12
erhnamdj
May 26, 2008 5:31:44
we have to do what we can :S

Which is using the rebuilding rules from PHB 2 to get rid of the levels that don't increase spellcasting ability.

I'll try and find something to help your monk later. It's about my bedtime now.
#13
vicen_korel
May 26, 2008 9:56:16 What feats do you have?

This isn't going to amount to spit in the ocean but if you have nimbus of light and holy light (iirc) then all you need to do is stand within 10 ft of the dragon to do a d4 damage each round (iirc that may be undead only). If you want to burn through your stunning fist attempts you can burn two feats to get ki blast from PHB 2 which gives you a ranged touch attack (iirc) that does 3d8 + Wis Mod damage. What you need is wraith strike given a day long or longer duration but I don't see that happening with that group.

The beguiler isn't bad, the sorcerer started out ok but the bonded summoner wasn't the best choice probably. The goliath, I'm not messing with. Your monk is fixable without too much work (not optimized but a good run with the flavor you have) we could probably even do something 'traditional' and keep some of your monk levels (that's a joke).

What's your feat selection? Feats really make or break everything.
#14
lordmaul
May 26, 2008 10:25:12 ya know? I've tried high level campaigns with relative newbies. It... just doesn't work out so hot- you lack the experience to do well, and, at that level, if you don't start off good, then you are apt to not gain much from the experience. That said:

Rebuilding aside (probably the best, but DM has to approve, and characters may not like messing with their stuffs), you have a few options.

As stated, Wish may be what you need- grab spells with long term or permanent durations (buffs), and load up on them before fights.

Consider Dragonslayer of Bahamut PrC (see if you can't replace the bonus gold given you with something more helpful to your character).

Your tattoos... yeah- you could do better with them. I don't have the book on hand, but... yeah. Make sure you are getting as much as you can from them.

Also- 13th level is a TERRIBLE place to end monk- sure you get SR 23 now, but at level 18, that means a caster needs to roll a 5 to get past your SR, assuming that the caster is your level (IIRC, dragon CL is significantly higher). You would do better to close at 12, and take another level of Tattooed Monk, or continue until 16 (next bonus to BaB)

Ask your DM if you can replace your Enhancement bonuses to your attacks with similarly priced weapon special abilities- like, say, Dragon Bane (this may be metagaming)

Also- seriously- aim for the +16 BaB at 20th level. It may be too late, but in the future, that should almost always be your goal for melee characters.
#15
palanolho
May 26, 2008 10:45:47 note: This party ( .. at least my and the Sorcerer) come since level 1. we didnt start at lv 18.

ok .. this will be the tricky part lol.

Because of the roleplay my char does, my DM let me be LN and have the vow, and choose also no BoED feats for it. ( at the end, very soon probably i will become LG... its part of the story im creating, anyway...)

heres the list:
H - Sacred Vow
Vow of Poverty
Bv - Initiation on the Way (Martial Artist System. Feat requised to have acess to the manuvers)
Bv - Intuitive Attack (Martial Artist System. Gain attack from bab every 3 points instead of evey 5. ex bab +4 would be +4/+1)
Finess Trip (beyond Monk i think. Use dex on trip instead of STR)
Bv - Elusive Grapple (beyond Monk i think. Use dex on Grapple instead of STR)
Bv - Situation Awareness (beyond Monk i think. Never get flat-footed)
Endurance (phb. requirement for tattoo monk)
Bv - Versatile Unarmed Atk (BoED i think. Choose to give blunt, slash or piercing damage)
Army of One (beyond Monk i think. Cant be flanked. only rogues 4 lvs higher can do it)
Bv - Coutermove (Martial Artist System. Any time someone attack you, it provokes and attack of oportunity for you)
Bv - Zen Damage (Martial Artist System. Use Wis instead of Str, on damage)
Circle-Kick (dont remember S&F maybe? everytime you hit an attack you can make an extra attack at an adjacent enemy. requires full attack, like flurry of blows )
Bv - M.S. (Shadow Jaunt) (ToB. teleport 50f - standard)
M.S. (Dance of Spider) (ToB. stance. gain spider climb)
Bv - M.S. (Burning Blade) (ToB. until your next turn, all attacks give an extra 1d6+initiation level fire damage - swift - in my case 1d6+9 fire damage)
M.S. (Flame Bless. ) (ToB. Stance. gives fire immunity depending on Tumble. tumble 19 ranks = immune)
Bv - White Scorpion Strike (dont remember. unarmed attack treated as ghoust weapon. its for drows only but my DM let it in my case)
Bv - ????????? (didnt choose yet. i was going to use this slot for something usefull on EPIC, but i dont even know if ill get there and if i get i will suggest Epic vow peogression or Paragon template, because my vow only gets till lv20)

i see a lot of feat slots o could have used with other feats, IF i didnt go with WIS on attacks and damage .... BUT, i think i only survived till now because of my big AC. Since i cant use itens boosting wis seemed to me the right option

*sight* (why do i try to roleplay on an Hack & slash based game ... lol )
#16
palanolho
May 26, 2008 17:28:38 hmmm i was thinking ... i think i can change my build to use Strength instead of dex and wis.

This way i gain 3 feat slots to use with Stunning fist and 2 more.

also, there are lot more ways to gain Str to boost damage and attack bonus, and i can still gat owls insight to boost my AC and saves a little bit.

this makes any sence?
#17
ChristopherGroves
May 26, 2008 18:49:30 Wis is fine.

Owl's Insight, Spell Compendium. That'll get you another +5-ish easy to hit, AC, etc.
#18
lordmaul
May 27, 2008 19:23:23 First off- don't you DARE insinuate that CO (or even just DnD) is synonymous with hack 'n slash. Some games are like that, and you can certainly become efficient at bashing stuff, but whether it is Roleplaying or Roll playing is based on your play style, not the game. On that same note, classes have little to do with roleplaying- they give depth to it, but I have played Fighters, and, in fact, rogues, who were, when it came down to the roleplaying, in fact, monks. Classes just make your life easier.
[/ranting]

okay- really, now, since you have already done it, you should keep up with the Wis/Dex synergy. You need to cut back on ToB manuvers (they are not helping right now), and, following one Shadow Hand Stance, grab Shadow Blade for additional Dex to damage. Again, keep your AC as high as it will go, and use your superior number of attacks to do the work for you. Seriously. Even with your sub-opt choices, you should be getting at LEAST +20/+20/+20/+20/+17/+14. That, and an attack whenever it attacks you? AC should not matter- you should be hitting more than it is- now just make sure you hit as hard.
#19
ChristopherGroves
May 27, 2008 19:46:01 Echo Lord Maul

Drop the Desert Wind maneuver and stance. Stay in the Shadow Hand stance.

Pick up Shadow Blade.

Consider instead taking a level or two of Swordsage; the DM should be ok with the unarmed Swordsage variant still progressing your unarmed damage (since it increases like monk).

Monk 11 / Tattoo 5 / Swordsage 2 is good (not in that order necessarily). That would free up 4 feats ... one for Shadow Blade, one for Adaptive Style (because, you know, you need that), net you two stances and lots of maneuvers.
#20
palanolho
May 31, 2008 8:51:18 hmmm i was changing a bit my buld with the sugestions you guys game me.

I changed to Strenght build with wisdom as 2nd best attribut.

So right now its 26-STR 20-WIS 16-DEX

This means that ive lowered mu AC in 5 points ( 41 AC & Flat, 29 Touch)

The good news is that, now i can benefit from the party spells wich are strenght based (for instances, Draconic Might [+4 enchant STR, CON, CHA, NAT, immume sleep and paralysis ] and Aura of Vitality [+4 moral STR, DEX, CON] wichgive a total of +8 STR +8 CON +4 DEX +4 CHA +4 NAT)

having the war weaver wands and rods with extra buffing spells ( such Greater Mighty Wallop, Cats Grace Owls Wisdom and Owls Insight) i can get some good extra buffs

With the swordsage level, i've choose:
- leaping Stance (+10 foot enchant on jumping, no need for running Jump)
- sudden leap (jump chack as a swift action
- soaring raptor strike (make jumpDC = target AC. if sucess them +4 attack bonus and give extra +6d6 damage if attack hits)
- pouncing charge (full round charge action. cam make full attack)
- Shadow Satride (teleport 50ft)
(and some more not that relevant)

I've also choosen feats like Law devotion (+7 sacred bonus on Attack or AC. 1min/day), Travel Domain (move as swift action, then make a rull round action ie, move+move, move+Standard or full-action), Battle Jump ( make chare attack that gives double damage)

one of the triky questions is about the Battle Jump. The feat says:
"you can execute a charge by simply dropping from at least 5ft above your opponent..... if you hit you can give double bamage or you can trip or you can grapple..."

So my question is, if i use the shadow Stride as a move action to teleport abouve the monster, i get the +2 charge attack bonus -2 AC and i give double damage?
Also can i meke a Suden Leap to leap above him, triggering the battle jump and then using the full attack Pouncing Charge to make full attack charge?

Jump over Medium = DC 40
Jump over Large = DC 60
Jump over Huge = DC 80
If im in Large size would i only have to make a DC 60 agains a Huge size?

What do you guys think?

(this post may be a little confusing, but im a little in worry so i didnt had much time to think on it and my mind was brainstorming this ideas)

Thanks in advance
#21
palanolho
Jun 05, 2008 6:12:43 hmm anyone?
#22
brainpiercing
Jun 05, 2008 8:19:26 This character isN'T nearly as bad as it looks at first sight. [edit: damn mistakes that just reverse the meaning of the entire sentence]

I would stick with the Wis. Even though it costs some feats it reduces the MAD by far. You seem to have quite a few feats, thanks to Vop.

Get someone to cast Greater Enlarge Person on you every day. Before encounters get someone to cast Owl's Insight.

Get rid of Improved Grapple and all grapple related feats. Grappling invariably sucks in the later game unless you can become really big. Rather take Stunning Fist.

If you do go for Str.- based build and want some cheese, take some levels of the Primeval prestige class from Frostburn. VoP + Wildshape = win. VoP + Primeval Shape = MORE win. The only downside is short duration and few uses/day. The trouble is getting the useless feats for Primeval in. (But you've already got Endurance, anyway, you only need two more.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 palanolho May 25, 2008 8:52:25	Greetings everyone. Currently im playing a monk at lv 18 and my party is in a stace of facing big dragons. The problem is that big dragons have big AC and i just have +24 attack bonus. (12 bab + 8 wis + 4 magic weapon) My char uses WIS instead of STR to attack and currently i have 26 wisdom. Is there any way to increse my attack bonus by spells? On my party i have a sorcerer with lv 7 spells a cleric with lv 7 spells and a druid with lv 7 spells thanks in advance. (i searched the board but didnt find anything, or maybe i didnt search the right keywords)
#2 lordmaul May 25, 2008 9:16:20	a) is your Wis as high as possible? You have plenty of cash- get the +6 periapt and the +4 Tome. b)TOUCH ATTACKS. I doubt you can beat a dragon's Fort save, but I believe you can use Quivering Palm as a touch attack. c)Dragon Bane weaponry d)redo your sheet- what with PrCs and synergistic base classes, you should have at LEAST +14 BaB right now (always aiming for +16 by level 20) e) Buy a stone of Use activated, quickened True Strike (expensive, as it is a 4th level spell, but not beyond your reach) f) Flank g) Divine Power (you'll need it in item form to use) h) Statistics. You are making 5+ attacks per round, each with a 5% chance of auto-hitting. As a Monk, you should really never be hit (except by the same luck). Pump your damage, pump your AC, and let numbers do it for ya. i) on that note, get a speed enhancement on your fists, or an item of continuous Haste (which also gives a +1 attack bonus, btw) j) teamwork. If your sorc can paralyze the dragon for one round, everyone gets coup de graces. Okay, there's ten for ya, and that's only a small amount of what is out there. Hope it helps.
#3 palanolho May 25, 2008 10:00:53	unfortunatly my monk has the Vow of poverty ( bad choise for high levels i know .. i just reallized now ...). can only benefit from tactics and spells
#4 theabyssdragon May 25, 2008 15:44:30	Just have your cleric buff you up before combat. There are tons of cleric spells that give a boost to attack (and a good bit of them to damage as well), and it's not too hard to find different source types so they stack. Also, if he's a team player, you should always have Greater Mighty Wallop active.
#5 erhnamdj May 25, 2008 19:18:35	Why do your level eighteen spellcasters only have seventh level spells? That's just horrible. Try and get a psychic reformation to get rid of that vow of poverty. You could just... break the vow. It's nigh useless at that level, anyway. You'll get +2 attack for charging, +2 attack for flanking, you could get a big bunch of extra attack from a bard or a polymorph spell. You're using wisdom instead of strength for attack. That has two consequences: the first is that wisdom is much more difficult to raise than strength and the second is that if you do switch to using strength (perhaps because you were polymorphed), you would have a wasted feat. Hmm... your base attack is twelve? At level eighteen? What other class did you dip for that to be the case? What books can we use? What are the other party members classes? They screwed themselves over big time if they each only have access to seventh level spells. Do you have any money on you that hasn't been donated to charity yet? We may end up spending that. To help you, we need to know everything.
#6 ChristopherGroves May 25, 2008 20:59:22	Owl's Insight (Spell compendium) should be good for another bump to your WIS. It's insight and not enchantment, so that's goodness.
#7 lordmaul May 25, 2008 22:56:53	wait... when does VoP give that +8 enhancement to a stat? If you already have that... then what with +4 from levels, to have a 26 in Wis, you could only have started with a 14... is that right? It's not a bad score, but considering how easy it is to hit 30 by that point...
#8 vicen_korel May 26, 2008 0:11:38	palanolho I think we need more information to really pump this out for you. If you could post your complete build, and some idea of what's in your party we can give you more tactical information on how to take this on and be useful as something other than a meat shield. Even though you have VoP someone else could cast wish on you. You know without you paying for it or anything as you can benefit from spells others cast on you, and it won't violate your vow becuase you still don't own anything. That way you could still get your +4 (+5) inherent bonus and not have to use a tome. Truthfully it's cheaper to buy the 5 wish spells than it is to buy the +5 tome. 137,500 gp for the tome, 133,100 gp (CL 18 x 90 gp (9th level spell) + 25,000 gp (5,000 exp) = 26,620 gp per wish x 5 wishes = 133,100 gp) for the wish spells for a savings of 4,400 gp, not a lot but still a gp saved is a gp earned.
#9 palanolho May 26, 2008 3:14:06	wow ! so many posts while i was sleeping :D Our party tend to roleplay so, sometimes the chars are not as good as they should ( and sometimes the DM, that also like to roleplay, forgets that). We are on the last chapter of Age of Worms. the one where we suposly need to "kill" Kyuss. the party is: - sorcerer 5/ war weaver 5/ bounded summoner (the bonded summoner .. we ... he liked the prestige...) - Goliath druid / Stone Shape Guardiam (the druid prestige for Goliath from Races of Stone) - Beguiler / Rainbow servent ( he cancast ANY cleric spells but well he loses the lv9 slot ) Im a Monk 13/ tattoo 5 (the tattos are not that great but .. it was more for the roleplay ) Here is the details of my char: Stats: 11 str 20 dex (16+4_vow) 16 con (14+2_vow) 13 int 26 wis (16+4_lv+6_vow) 12 cha AC = 46 (10+8_wis+5_dex+3_monk+3_vow_deflect+10_vow_armor+2_vow_natural+5_manuver) Flat= 46 (i have a feat that let me retain dex even when flatfooted) Touch = 34 Graple: +25 (improved grapple + dex + bab + bonus from manuver) Trip: +16 (improved trip + dex + bonus from manuver) Tattoos: Wasp (haste effect), tiger (+1 hit, +1d6 damage), dragon ( this tattoo has a costum power that the DM created, but he doesnt tell me what it is ... its a long roleplay story, so right now, its a useless tattoo) Have all the benefits of vow of Poverty up to lv18 the "manuvers" you see me refering here, are from the "martial artist system" We can use all books and usually Dragon Magasins too. But as allways DM aproval is needed. "Wizards of the Coast" books are prefered. Tell me what else do you need to know about the char and ill do it!
#10 erhnamdj May 26, 2008 4:27:48	Do the other players realize how much they have hurt their characters by choosing those prestige classes (or the goliath race for a... druid)?
#11 palanolho May 26, 2008 5:25:57	we are not experts on the matter, actually this was our first campaigh ever in any roleplay... next time im sure we will know it best, but for now .. we have to do what we can :S
#12 erhnamdj May 26, 2008 5:31:44	we have to do what we can :S Which is using the rebuilding rules from PHB 2 to get rid of the levels that don't increase spellcasting ability. I'll try and find something to help your monk later. It's about my bedtime now.
#13 vicen_korel May 26, 2008 9:56:16	What feats do you have? This isn't going to amount to spit in the ocean but if you have nimbus of light and holy light (iirc) then all you need to do is stand within 10 ft of the dragon to do a d4 damage each round (iirc that may be undead only). If you want to burn through your stunning fist attempts you can burn two feats to get ki blast from PHB 2 which gives you a ranged touch attack (iirc) that does 3d8 + Wis Mod damage. What you need is wraith strike given a day long or longer duration but I don't see that happening with that group. The beguiler isn't bad, the sorcerer started out ok but the bonded summoner wasn't the best choice probably. The goliath, I'm not messing with. Your monk is fixable without too much work (not optimized but a good run with the flavor you have) we could probably even do something 'traditional' and keep some of your monk levels (that's a joke). What's your feat selection? Feats really make or break everything.
#14 lordmaul May 26, 2008 10:25:12	ya know? I've tried high level campaigns with relative newbies. It... just doesn't work out so hot- you lack the experience to do well, and, at that level, if you don't start off good, then you are apt to not gain much from the experience. That said: Rebuilding aside (probably the best, but DM has to approve, and characters may not like messing with their stuffs), you have a few options. As stated, Wish may be what you need- grab spells with long term or permanent durations (buffs), and load up on them before fights. Consider Dragonslayer of Bahamut PrC (see if you can't replace the bonus gold given you with something more helpful to your character). Your tattoos... yeah- you could do better with them. I don't have the book on hand, but... yeah. Make sure you are getting as much as you can from them. Also- 13th level is a TERRIBLE place to end monk- sure you get SR 23 now, but at level 18, that means a caster needs to roll a 5 to get past your SR, assuming that the caster is your level (IIRC, dragon CL is significantly higher). You would do better to close at 12, and take another level of Tattooed Monk, or continue until 16 (next bonus to BaB) Ask your DM if you can replace your Enhancement bonuses to your attacks with similarly priced weapon special abilities- like, say, Dragon Bane (this may be metagaming) Also- seriously- aim for the +16 BaB at 20th level. It may be too late, but in the future, that should almost always be your goal for melee characters.
#15 palanolho May 26, 2008 10:45:47	note: This party ( .. at least my and the Sorcerer) come since level 1. we didnt start at lv 18. ok .. this will be the tricky part lol. Because of the roleplay my char does, my DM let me be LN and have the vow, and choose also no BoED feats for it. ( at the end, very soon probably i will become LG... its part of the story im creating, anyway...) heres the list: H - Sacred Vow Vow of Poverty Bv - Initiation on the Way (Martial Artist System. Feat requised to have acess to the manuvers) Bv - Intuitive Attack (Martial Artist System. Gain attack from bab every 3 points instead of evey 5. ex bab +4 would be +4/+1) Finess Trip (beyond Monk i think. Use dex on trip instead of STR) Bv - Elusive Grapple (beyond Monk i think. Use dex on Grapple instead of STR) Bv - Situation Awareness (beyond Monk i think. Never get flat-footed) Endurance (phb. requirement for tattoo monk) Bv - Versatile Unarmed Atk (BoED i think. Choose to give blunt, slash or piercing damage) Army of One (beyond Monk i think. Cant be flanked. only rogues 4 lvs higher can do it) Bv - Coutermove (Martial Artist System. Any time someone attack you, it provokes and attack of oportunity for you) Bv - Zen Damage (Martial Artist System. Use Wis instead of Str, on damage) Circle-Kick (dont remember S&F maybe? everytime you hit an attack you can make an extra attack at an adjacent enemy. requires full attack, like flurry of blows ) Bv - M.S. (Shadow Jaunt) (ToB. teleport 50f - standard) M.S. (Dance of Spider) (ToB. stance. gain spider climb) Bv - M.S. (Burning Blade) (ToB. until your next turn, all attacks give an extra 1d6+initiation level fire damage - swift - in my case 1d6+9 fire damage) M.S. (Flame Bless. ) (ToB. Stance. gives fire immunity depending on Tumble. tumble 19 ranks = immune) Bv - White Scorpion Strike (dont remember. unarmed attack treated as ghoust weapon. its for drows only but my DM let it in my case) Bv - ????????? (didnt choose yet. i was going to use this slot for something usefull on EPIC, but i dont even know if ill get there and if i get i will suggest Epic vow peogression or Paragon template, because my vow only gets till lv20) i see a lot of feat slots o could have used with other feats, IF i didnt go with WIS on attacks and damage .... BUT, i think i only survived till now because of my big AC. Since i cant use itens boosting wis seemed to me the right option sight (why do i try to roleplay on an Hack & slash based game ... lol )
#16 palanolho May 26, 2008 17:28:38	hmmm i was thinking ... i think i can change my build to use Strength instead of dex and wis. This way i gain 3 feat slots to use with Stunning fist and 2 more. also, there are lot more ways to gain Str to boost damage and attack bonus, and i can still gat owls insight to boost my AC and saves a little bit. this makes any sence?
#17 ChristopherGroves May 26, 2008 18:49:30	Wis is fine. Owl's Insight, Spell Compendium. That'll get you another +5-ish easy to hit, AC, etc.
#18 lordmaul May 27, 2008 19:23:23	First off- don't you DARE insinuate that CO (or even just DnD) is synonymous with hack 'n slash. Some games are like that, and you can certainly become efficient at bashing stuff, but whether it is Roleplaying or Roll playing is based on your play style, not the game. On that same note, classes have little to do with roleplaying- they give depth to it, but I have played Fighters, and, in fact, rogues, who were, when it came down to the roleplaying, in fact, monks. Classes just make your life easier. [/ranting] okay- really, now, since you have already done it, you should keep up with the Wis/Dex synergy. You need to cut back on ToB manuvers (they are not helping right now), and, following one Shadow Hand Stance, grab Shadow Blade for additional Dex to damage. Again, keep your AC as high as it will go, and use your superior number of attacks to do the work for you. Seriously. Even with your sub-opt choices, you should be getting at LEAST +20/+20/+20/+20/+17/+14. That, and an attack whenever it attacks you? AC should not matter- you should be hitting more than it is- now just make sure you hit as hard.
#19 ChristopherGroves May 27, 2008 19:46:01	Echo Lord Maul Drop the Desert Wind maneuver and stance. Stay in the Shadow Hand stance. Pick up Shadow Blade. Consider instead taking a level or two of Swordsage; the DM should be ok with the unarmed Swordsage variant still progressing your unarmed damage (since it increases like monk). Monk 11 / Tattoo 5 / Swordsage 2 is good (not in that order necessarily). That would free up 4 feats ... one for Shadow Blade, one for Adaptive Style (because, you know, you need that), net you two stances and lots of maneuvers.
#20 palanolho May 31, 2008 8:51:18	hmmm i was changing a bit my buld with the sugestions you guys game me. I changed to Strenght build with wisdom as 2nd best attribut. So right now its 26-STR 20-WIS 16-DEX This means that ive lowered mu AC in 5 points ( 41 AC & Flat, 29 Touch) The good news is that, now i can benefit from the party spells wich are strenght based (for instances, Draconic Might [+4 enchant STR, CON, CHA, NAT, immume sleep and paralysis ] and Aura of Vitality [+4 moral STR, DEX, CON] wichgive a total of +8 STR +8 CON +4 DEX +4 CHA +4 NAT) having the war weaver wands and rods with extra buffing spells ( such Greater Mighty Wallop, Cats Grace Owls Wisdom and Owls Insight) i can get some good extra buffs With the swordsage level, i've choose: - leaping Stance (+10 foot enchant on jumping, no need for running Jump) - sudden leap (jump chack as a swift action - soaring raptor strike (make jumpDC = target AC. if sucess them +4 attack bonus and give extra +6d6 damage if attack hits) - pouncing charge (full round charge action. cam make full attack) - Shadow Satride (teleport 50ft) (and some more not that relevant) I've also choosen feats like Law devotion (+7 sacred bonus on Attack or AC. 1min/day), Travel Domain (move as swift action, then make a rull round action ie, move+move, move+Standard or full-action), Battle Jump ( make chare attack that gives double damage) one of the triky questions is about the Battle Jump. The feat says: "you can execute a charge by simply dropping from at least 5ft above your opponent..... if you hit you can give double bamage or you can trip or you can grapple..." So my question is, if i use the shadow Stride as a move action to teleport abouve the monster, i get the +2 charge attack bonus -2 AC and i give double damage? Also can i meke a Suden Leap to leap above him, triggering the battle jump and then using the full attack Pouncing Charge to make full attack charge? Jump over Medium = DC 40 Jump over Large = DC 60 Jump over Huge = DC 80 If im in Large size would i only have to make a DC 60 agains a Huge size? What do you guys think? (this post may be a little confusing, but im a little in worry so i didnt had much time to think on it and my mind was brainstorming this ideas) Thanks in advance
#21 palanolho Jun 05, 2008 6:12:43	hmm anyone?
#22 brainpiercing Jun 05, 2008 8:19:26	This character isN'T nearly as bad as it looks at first sight. [edit: damn mistakes that just reverse the meaning of the entire sentence] I would stick with the Wis. Even though it costs some feats it reduces the MAD by far. You seem to have quite a few feats, thanks to Vop. Get someone to cast Greater Enlarge Person on you every day. Before encounters get someone to cast Owl's Insight. Get rid of Improved Grapple and all grapple related feats. Grappling invariably sucks in the later game unless you can become really big. Rather take Stunning Fist. If you do go for Str.- based build and want some cheese, take some levels of the Primeval prestige class from Frostburn. VoP + Wildshape = win. VoP + Primeval Shape = MORE win. The only downside is short duration and few uses/day. The trouble is getting the useless feats for Primeval in. (But you've already got Endurance, anyway, you only need two more.)