Snuggle up with Treantmonk.
Thats... dirty...
1) MartialWizard5/Incantatrix4/InitiateOfTheSevenfoldVeil7/Archmage4
- Drop evocation
- Take extend, persist, quicken and chain metamagics
- Mastery of shaping, then Reach, then Elements then SLA: Maw of chaos
The question of whether of not to specialize depends heavily on the number of encounters per rests you face. Being a domain wizard or elf generalist are the best options, in my opinion.
Aburist 3 / Master Specialist 10 / Iot7V 7 <- truly awesome at 13th level (casting AMF on a Barbarian will be awesome), but also really, really survivable at high level (when everything is "I go first, you die", you can prevent that).
Wizard (generalist) 5 / Incanatrix 10 / Hathran 5 <- the power relative to other party members will be maximized around L9-L15, but will still be really, really strong after that (this is relative to other full spellcasters)
MasterAbjurer10 is great, but I prefer:
Wizard(Abjurer)3/MasterSpecialist10/Archmage1/Incantatrix3/x3
Where x3 is most likely more archmage.
Mage of the arcane order is silly good as well for 7 levels.
FocusedSpecialistWizard3/MageOfTheArcaneOrder7/Incantatrix3/Archmage1/x6
Where x6 is 2 more levels of wizard (For 5th level ACF), 1 level of incantatrix (For a metamagic feat), 4 levels of archmage, or something else.
I just use a Sculpt Spell Metamagic Rod, or the Spell Aim feat. Tomato / tomato, though.
The Rod doesn't work, because you want to be using another rod instead. Where's spell aim?
The Rod doesn't work, because you want to be using another rod instead. Where's spell aim?
Extraordinary Spell Aim, I think... CAdv...
Extraordinary Spell Aim, I think... CAdv...
Thanks, I checked arcane and mage... things always hide from me in adventurer.
The feat only lets you exclude 1 creature though, so I still have to go with archmage
Spell list focuses on teleport subschool spells like Dimensional X, Benign Transposition, and Teleport, along with a ton of Fogs (Solid + Freezing), Necro debuff rays coupled with copious amounts of metamagic, and a few standard buffs/utilities.
Fundamentally, the core issue with blasting is one of efficiency. There are three classical solutions to this:
- Avoid it. Works really really really well. Often way more fun. Witch-kings and god-wizards.
- Meta-magic tricks to increase the kill to spell ratio to a palatable level. The Mailman. Evocantatrix.
- Recast blasting into a different and more enjoyable light. The Gish. The Blastificer.
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[/CENTER]Still, you often don't get the chance to do this, which is good considering you can easily get to three-digit damage dice like this... not to mention the usual caveats of going nova. Still, 6x twinned, empowered resonating bolts, when you absolutely need that Dungeon Bypass should be fun... ( and should cut through, oh, foot-thick walls made of pure adamantite. )
Remember, you have enough raw power to fill any two roles.
Alternatively, Endarire's build is very good. It comes pretty close to the iconic wizard build. The BC Wizard pioneered by treant and logic-ninja is basically a solved problem at this point. If you want to do something else, we can also help you with that.
Although thats a great mix of classes, I'm actually against mixing Incanatrix and Iot7V... It dilutes the power, imo (this is a pure opinion thing, though). Some alternatives (both would be great):
Aburist 3 / Master Specialist 10 / IotSFV 7 <- truly awesome at 13th level (casting AMF on a Barbarian will be awesome), but also really, really survivable at high level (when everything is "I go first, you die", you can prevent that).
Wizard (generalist) 5 / Incanatrix 10 / Hathran 5 <- the power relative to other party members will be maximized around L9-L15, but will still be really, really strong after that (this is relative to other full spellcasters)
can you elaborate more on that, if you can squeeze both of the most powerful classes into one build how can that be bad???
if you mean only taking 3 or 4 levels of incantrix and then diching the class, IMO the best ability is obtained at level 3, and all the rest are JUST ok unless you wait out until level 10.
If you only get the first 4 levels you are missing out on:
*2 extra feats: aside from persit, sculpt and extend i dont really like metamagic that much, the others seem to blasty
*metamagic spell trigger: from what ive read using wands is suboptimal and using this will cost you a item creation feat (wand).
*2 uses of instant metamagic: powerfull but one shot abilities IMO
*seize concentration:i cant find a use for it.
*snatch spell: could be usefull but seems situational (you can own summoners)
*improved metamagic: OK this is Uber cool
(But then again im from the treantmonk school of thinking)
.....and in return you get the opportunity to take 7 levels of IotSFV
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My question:
if you go:
abjuror3/MS2/incantrix3/MS1/IotSFV7/MS or Archmage 4
conjuror3/MS2/incantrix3/MS1/IotSFV7/MS or Archmage 4
( costs 2 more feats and you get abrupt jaunt and a not sucky school of extra spell)
My dilemma is if i drop MS and just use my feats to get into IotSFV one level earlier it will cost me more feats, you migth say its not efficient because you waste 1 more feat and its true if your starting at Lvl 20 but if you are playing from level 1 thats one whole level of IotSFV you get earlier and you get to keep necromancy and evocation
maybe
domain wizard5/incantrix3/IotSFV7/Incantrix1/Archmage4
any opinions on those 3 builds because im looking to play one of the this summer.
Three things matter, and only three.
[INDENT]2. Initiative.
3. Actions.[/INDENT]
Of these three... yes, there are two. Of these three things, both initiative and initiative are really important. If you can't get that, you had better be ready to deal with some really serious pain. The seductive call of easy power makes forgetting basics very simple. Everyone will tell you that dropping evocation is easy. This is true, but remember to find a way to duplicate contingency. Everyone will tell you that blasting sucks. This is true only for players. It's great for a GM to use. Remember this, and prepare for incoming fire. I could go on, but simply put, what I am trying to say is that the very best way to be prepared is insuring that you don't need to be prepared all the time.
The zeroth law of wizardry is that there are two kinds of wizards.
The swift, clever, polite, prepared, ambitious, powerful ones, and the dead ones.
If I seem to speak in circles and riddles and such, I apologize.
But alot of people here in CO boards forget that when you start at level 1 life is hard for a wizard.
ANd to me three things matter,
1.Initiative
2.Actions
3.Getting to level 20 alive
To me feats are icing on the Cake, they help you qualify for classes and give you that extra oumpf!
But i dont expect for feats to win the battle, thats what my class features are for and thats what my spells are for
The 3rd build you posted was identical to the one I posted earlier, and as such I approve of it :D
NOTE: Initiate of the Sevenfol Veil requires 12 skill ranks, meaning you have to be Wizard9/Initiate1 to qualify. 8 levels only gives you 11 ranks, sucka MC.
And while abrupt jaunt is sexy as hell, I like my familiar more. He is cuddly, and the antimagic field on him is nice, considering he moves away from me, then I cast a spell, then he moves back
I have been invited to play 3.5 game with old friends, and they need a wizard. So, I have thinking about the creation of this wizard and where I would like it to go. Maybe some sort of wand wielding blast 'em up. Any suggestions out there?
wizards suck make a sorcerer
wizards suck make a sorcerer
Focused conjuror has about the same amount of spells as a conjuror, and granted he cant cast them spontaneously but whit planning who needs to, plus bonus points you can take abrupt jaunt ( i have a crush on that ability) If it was not for IotsFV and its absurd feat prereqs id never be anything but a conjuror.
yeah keithio pretty much all of the are your builds THx for them!! but #1 seems so streamlined, makes it such a hard choice between conjuration and abjuration, as for #3 since i cant get in a level early theres really no point in avoiding MS.
silly me missing 12 instead of 11
I'll never understand why treatmonk's guide hates on IotSV though...
...If only Mystra had taken it she might still be God :D
Imagine if you could use metamagic effect to persist your shields!!!
who knows why treantmonk hates it so much, i cant understand why he loves mage of the arcane order, sure you can cast any spell, but only once, and my philosophy is if you cant do it more than 3 times you are out of luck in the 4th encounter.
Besides i dont like beeing tied down to a mage order, seems like im a blockbuster member paying my subscrption fee and getting my spell in the mail and i have to return it or i get late fees.
totally agree IotSV rocks! You could even say it better than incantrix but that migth be to bold.
Imagine if you could use metamagic effect to persist your shields!!!
who knows why treantmonk hates it so much, i cant understand why he loves mage of the arcane order, sure you can cast any spell, but only once, and my philosophy is if you cant do it more than 3 times you are out of luck in the 4th encounter.
Besides i dont like beeing tied down to a mage order, seems like im a blockbuster member paying my subscrption fee and getting my spell in the mail and i have to return it or i get late fees.
Lol @ blockbuster.
No way is IotSV better than Incantatrix though, that 3rd level ability is just too much win.
Everyone take out your wands of wraithstrike aaaaand - persist'd.
While not absolutely clear RAW, it should be noted that IotSV veils work in - and block - antimagic fields. Pretty spiffy extra line of defense if ya ask me.
I think treatmonk hates it because it requires 2 lame feats and yields only defensive benefits
You are probably right in saying that the incantrix 3rd ability is better than IotSFV, its just made of win.
BTW how do you put a antimagic field on your familiar??? is the MSabjuror 10th level ability the only way???
it kills anything that tries to touch you, i dont see how thats not worth 3 feats,
And personally I used the sphere more than the personal warding when I played IotSV. It lent my allies cover, and tempted the DM into running across it (Which never ever worked out for him).
If you want a general caster, I still heartily recommend Gray Elf Martial Conjurer3/Master Conjurer1/Conjurer+1/Incantatrix10/Archmage2 (Mastery of Shaping, Spell Power)/Conjurer+1/X2.
You need a bloody high Spellcraft check to Persist even level 3 spells at level 8, but ask your team for contributions since they too can benefit lots.
i dont undestand the difference between personal and sphere, seems you lose nothing by going sphere(you can move, same duration, same effect) and you gain a larger area cover. cant see why anybody would choose personal, unless you are riding a elevator.
Endarire nice build, but i just cant help it i need IotSFV its just so cool!
) and elf generalist for +8 initiative =p.Basically you pick it for the bonus it gives you, since you're just going to be sharing your shapechange spell with it anyways =p.
OMG! wraithstrike! is that even legal??? im starting to think incantrix3/IotSFV7 is a good gish build.Almost all of My gish builds include 4 levels of Incantatrix and Arcane Disciple Competition (if I can get away with it), using persisted DP for BAB.You don't need anything special to cast AMF on your familiar, just cast it on yourself and share it with him. Then persist his via Incantatrix, and dismiss yours if you don't want it. Or keep yours and experiment with interlocking AMFs with shaped holes.
You don't have to go that far to cast personal spells on your familiar. If the target of the spell is 'you', you can freely cast it on your familiar as a touch spell.
That way, it doesn't disappear if the familiar flies more than 5ft away (which would happen in your scenario, even if you persisted it).
Or, alternatively, if you're allowed Dragon material, take the Enspell Familiar feat, and you never have to worry about his distance again.
You don't have to go that far to cast personal spells on your familiar. If the target of the spell is 'you', you can freely cast it on your familiar as a touch spell.
The thing is, AMF is not personal. It probably should be, but it isn't. It is an emanation centered on you, but it doesn't have a target line. So you can't just cast it on the familiar.
You could Share it via Share Spells, but then it will go away if the familiar moves more than 5 feet away from you. So keithio's tactics don't actually work. (I used to think they did, also, and advocated exactly the same thing for a long time on here.)
Also, how are you going to Persist it on the familiar while standing inside it? Isn't Metamagic Effect a Su ability? And even if you did, it would still be a shared spell, and hence would go away immediately if the familiar moved more than 5 feet away from you... persistent metamagic or not.
It has "Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you", which qualifies for target being you, just like spells like ghoul touch, as far as I can see.
Any spell you cast on yourself you can also cast on your familiar... this is not limited to personal range spells, but also any applicable fixed, touch, etc.
EDIT: And we persist it via shaping it.
EDIt: Never mind im totally wrong, drat.
EDIT:
So the only thing that works is shaping your AMF to have a firing hole in it, shaping your familiars to cover that hole, having your familiar move 5' away, which opens the hole, firing out of the hole and then having your familiar move back.
For this to be effective you need to be able to rotate the firing hole to swing it to your target... whether or not you can do this is totally unclear. Otherwise you can only fire spells in a straight line in the x y and z directions.
It has "Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you", which qualifies for target being you, just like spells like ghoul touch, as far as I can see.
Any spell you cast on yourself you can also cast on your familiar... this is not limited to personal range spells, but also any applicable fixed, touch, etc.
There are two entirely different functions of Share Spells.
Function 1:
At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.
This will work for any spell, with any kind of target, effect, etc. However, this part is also subject to this limitation:
If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires.
Function 2:
Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.
This one is not subject to the "must stay within 5 feet limitation", but it does specifically say that the spell must have a target line, and that "You" must be the target. So we can't use this function with AMF at all. And if we use the first function, the familiar can't move more than 5 feet away from us.
Now... RAI, I agree that you should be able to cast AMF on your familiar using this second function, but RAW you can't.
You asked "What do you want to do, and why? These are serious questions that have no simple answer. Nonetheless, to help you more than just with handbooks, we need some answers or some hints. I'm very interested, and I'm at your service. We would like to know start level, likely end level, alignment constraints, flavor constraints, preference regarding dipping... Stuff like that"
Start level would be 1st, through until 10th. Good/lawful alignment. I understand the art of running away at 1st lvl, and I dont want to delay this, that and the other so my damage has to be worked on a calculator. Character feel will come through 1st session and other players.
Through my conversations, I was led to belive there was a Prestige Class, that allowed 2 wand use.
ta
If you just want to leave things a smoking ruin, that's very doable at tenth. 9-12 is the sweet spot in my experience for a blaster, where your ability to deliver damage outruns their ability to protect against it, and where you can still win initiative.
Likewise, the classic GEoD (God-emperor of Dune) build that Treant lays out works quite well from 1 all the way up to 20. Fundamentally, his strategy is just an incredibly strong and focused one, that delivers across the board. While it is not the single best approach early on, it will deliver across the board.
There are a number of other options, like a Tome of Battle gish, which hits like a truck early to mid-game and remains potent late in life, or something more esoteric like one of my specialist war-weaver builds. For wandination, my impulse would be to recommend artificer. Artificers make incredibly effective blasters, as well. It depends on if you are married to spells, which I would certainly understand.
Remember, any two roles. Tell us a bit more about your party, if you can, and I think we have enough to go on.
I thought the Minotaur Paladin combo was a little strange. Cant really comment on the summoner type, but I would guess that its going to be more than a Druid.
"It came from.... behind!"
"It's a TRAP!"
So what do you want to do? Hit like a hammer, command legions, throw great waves of crushing force, suffocate your foes with a gesture, or bend the battlefield itself to your will?
I'm pretty comfortable, looking at your line-up, with handing you a fairly heavy duty build-out. Particularly if that druid is a greenbound summoner, and that gnome is a whispergnome sneakster.... And who knows, that paladin might be a dragoon. Did he say minotaur or half-minotaur?
Hell, even using Savage progressions, I'm not sure how you have one at level 1... unless it isn't really a Monster Manual minotaur...
I think there is a low ECL minotaur in one of the dragonlance books. Maybe they're using that.
This is what lead me to suspect the terror that is half-minotaur. :: sighs ::
There is, but it's basically unplayable. Nix, it is unplayable, even by non-CO standards. Also, it's medium. It's a 9 foot tall bull-man who's medium and weighs 600 pounds. Thanks Dragonlance!
This is what lead me to suspect the terror that is half-minotaur. :: sighs ::
You never know, maybe it's a 4E half-minotaur :P
And before that... he's still a wizard. :D
well if you take incantrix you will definitly not be underpowered
Yes you will be, since you'll be giving everyone else a persistent wraithstrike :D
Spent the day thinking over the options Dr. Hitting like a hammer sounds good, so does the crushing waves of force. Actually, they all sound attractive. Maybe a little explanation on what each build, as I haven't played since '91!
And you are correct 3.5
You'll need player's guide to faerun for that one.
You can, with a little determination pull off the following:
Wizard3/War Weaver 5, which will position you for a tremendous amount of really cool party buffing and give you plenty of options for further advancement. War Weaver is basically my favorite PrC, for a variety of reasons.
More to come.