Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shoru Apr 13, 2009 21:16:23	I've recently started a new campaign, and I've chosen to play a duskblade. Then I looked all over this forum for the most destructive duskblade builds available, and found a few i tweaked together. Unfortunatly, the only books I am allowed are PHB I&II for feats, and was wondering how to best optimize my character without all the other books. My Current build is Level 5 Duskblade Human Str 19 (+1 level) Dex 16 Con 14 Int 15 Wis 12 Cha 8 Feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked chain) Combat Reflexes Power Attack Equipment (we weren't given the 'average gold for level chart' so this is the best i could do) Masterwork Chain Shirt Masterwork Spiked Chain* Wand of Enlarge Person 50 charges Wand of Cure Light Wounds 50 charges *The Spiked Chain has a special ability, one of the handle rings for the chain is modified to also include a warhammer in the grip, after a successful attack I can make a grapple check to pull in an enemy (bullrush rules, but opposite direction) and I get a free attack with the warhammer, I can do that once per round. Don't ask how I got this, DM boon when I took the chain in to get repaired Spells Acid Splash Disrupt Undead Ray of Frost Touch of Fatigue Color Spray (plan on switching this one out at 9th level) Resist Energy Shocking Grasp True Strike Swift Expeditious Retreat Ghoul Touch I want some help on picking out my next few feats and ideas for multiclassing after 13th level. Thanks for your help Thanks in advance for your help CO Board, remember, only PHB I&II feats allowed, and only PrC allowed are DMG ones.
#2 ninjarabbit Apr 14, 2009 6:04:38	Tough one here Combat expertise and improved trip are good. Robilar's gambit could be a good choice at level 12.
#3 Dictum_Mortuum Apr 14, 2009 8:57:26	Brutal strike is also good.
#4 shoru Apr 14, 2009 9:53:06	I was thinking of taking Duskblade to lvl 15, to get that third quick cast and three fourth lvl spells (dimension door, enervation, dispel magic) then multiclass out. Due to lack of good PrC I was thinking maybe Fighter4/X1 to get weapon specialization and a few extra feats. Brutal Strike is nice, definitly taking that at 6th lvl, so far it looks like this Lvl 6: Duskblade Brutal strike Lvl 7: Duskblade Lvl 8: Duskblade +1 str Lvl 9: Duskblade Cleave Lvl 10: Duskblade Lvl 11: Duskblade Lvl 12: Duskblade Robilars Gambit +1 str Lvl 13: Duskblade Lvl 14: Duskblade Lvl 15: Duskblade Improved Critical (spiked chain) Lvl 16: Fighter +1 str Weapon Focus (spiked chain) Lvl 17: Fighter ????? Lvl 18: Fighter ????? Lvl 19: Fighter Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) Lvl 20: ???? +1 str Was thinking about maybe combat expertise, improv trip for other two feats, also considering adding in whirlwind attack in there some how, but not sure. Also thought about throwing in improv init somewhere, going first is always nice. Other feats I looked at are: Great Cleave, Arcane Toughness, Combat Tactician, Dampen Spell, Defensive Sweep, Spectral Skirmisher (I plan on taking swift invisibility), Vatic Gaze. Thanks for your help so far everyone.
#5 kinie Apr 14, 2009 13:16:43	This is what I'd do: Level 6 go with Improved Trip. Level 9 go with Cleave. Brutal Strike at level 12, Empower Metamagic at 15, Arcane Thesis for level 18. The only PrC that might help you is Eldritch Knight even though its worse than Duskblade, otherwise I'd say go Duskblade 16/Fighter 4. You'll get another 3 bonus feats from fighter 4. I'd go with: Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization.
#6 keithio Apr 14, 2009 13:28:15	Grab the fighter levels earlier, in order to pick up the high-end fighter feats from PHB2.
#7 shoru Apr 14, 2009 21:43:22	Keithio, do you mean the melee weapon mastery feat? Thats the only high end fighter feat I could really use with this build, as it only requires fighter 4th lvl. Am I reading this feat correctly? Does the +2/+2 bonus stack with weapon focus and specialization? So with those three feats alone thats an extra +3/+4 with the spiked chain? That isn't too shabby, but Kinie has a good point about picking up a metamagic feat or two as well. Also I don't like the idea of missing out on the duskblade spell progression until at least Lvl 13, which nets me full attack arcane channelling and dimension door, a very fun and useful spell. Truthfully I haven't played D&D much, this will be the third campaign I will play in (with one campaign I came in at the end, and the other was TPK: Total Party Killed) and if someone could give me a rundown of the pros/cons of each of the feats I am considering for this build, that would be very helpful. I've already found a couple of things that look good on paper but not on a battlefield. Those feats were: Great Cleave, Arcane Toughness, Combat Tactician, Dampen Spell, Defensive Sweep, Spectral Skirmisher (I plan on taking swift invisibility), Vatic Gaze, Melee Weapon Mastery, Driving Attack, Brutal Strike, Improved Critical, Arcane Toughness and Metamagic Empower.
#8 keithio Apr 14, 2009 21:55:33	Yeah, that's the feat I meant and yeah it stacks like that. Isn't life fun? Taking it after Duskblade13 is fine, because you get the requisite 4 levels of fighter at level 17, one level early for taking the feat at level 18.
#9 shoru Apr 15, 2009 19:30:04	Okay, that feats a nice addition, time to move the build around a little. Lvl 6: Duskblade Combat Expertise Lvl 7: Duskblade Lvl 8: Duskblade +1 str Lvl 9: Duskblade Improved Trip Lvl 10: Duskblade Lvl 11: Duskblade Lvl 12: Duskblade Metamagic Empower +1 str Lvl 13: Duskblade Lvl 14: Fighter Weapon Focus (spiked chain) Lvl 15: Fighter Robilars Gambit, Arcane Thesis (Vampiric Touch) Lvl 16: Fighter Lvl 17: Fighter Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) Lvl 18: Duskblade Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lvl 19: Duskblade Lvl 20: ???? +1 str Any comments on this new build? Any good 1 Level dips to fill in Lvl 20 (or earlier) I don't really want to take duskblade to lvl 16, as there is only one good 5th lvl spell (Waves of Fatigue) that I like, and there isn't a good class feature on that lvl. I'm not sure if I like the Empower feat there, since only Vampiric Touch gets a real benefit from it at the cost of yet another feat, Ghoul touch gets a bonus too but If i need three more rounds of paralyzation to kill something then I'm not optimized enough :D The free daze attempt with brutal strike looks nice, but my weapon was a total DM boon and I would hate to throw it in his face. Also I just read through Improved Trip again, and I didn't know it gave you a free attack against a tripped opponent. Alot of good synergy there, especially when I get the full round arcane channelling ability at lvl 13. Besides, Brutal Strike would only be useful until I get a different spiked chain.
#10 ninjarabbit Apr 15, 2009 19:49:18	I don't like empower spell and arcane thesis, it's 2 feats for a small benefit. Improved initative is always a solid choice and since you're married to the spiked chain you might as well take improved critical. Duskblade is probably the best choice by default for your 20th level. There's no good 1 level dips at that point and an extra CL and waves of fatigue aren't that bad. Disentgrate isn't a bad spell either for utility or completely finishing off a foe.
#11 kinie Apr 15, 2009 22:01:05	The reason why I suggested Arcane Thesis + Empower metamagic is because of Shocking Grasp. +5d6 lightning damage for no spell level adjustment is good. But when you read the fine-print on Shocking Grasp (specifically the part about the charge staying until something touches it) means you can LAYER shocking grasp. +5d6 sounds nice. How does +25d6 sound? Granted, this only applies to one foe, but you should have a sword on-hand in case something happens to the spiked chain (sundered, broken, tied up, etc.) and you still need to pose a threat. As for what spell to pick if you go Duskblade at level 20, I recommend Disintegrate (pure magic damage is hard to resist), Waves of Fatigue (useful if you fight lots of things that can be fatigued, mostly living things) or Polar Ray (a +16d6 cold damage to a weapon is nothing to laugh at).
#12 shoru Apr 15, 2009 23:12:53	What's this layering of shocking grasp?? Please explain it in more detail. Empower would make that 7d6 of electricity damage right? Because Empower adds 50% to all variables (5 X 1.5 = 7.5, rounded to 7) Also, Empower makes a spell two levels higher, and Arcane Thesis only takes away one of those, so it does have a spell level adjustment of one. My beliefs on Disintegrate, AWESOME wizard/sorc spell, or chars with a HIGH SPELL SAVE DC. My disintegrate would be a pitiful 17 DC fort save, for a total of 5d6 magic dmg versus failed save. I will agree with it's versatility when cast on objects, floors, walls, etc. But not really optimized for a duskblade. The point is moot anyway, Duskblades don't get 5th lvl spells until lvl 17, taking 20th lvl as duskblade makes him duskblade Lvl 16, so extra spell of 4th lvl or lower, no 5th lvl available. Also the one-level dip doesn't have to be at 20th character lvl, It could become my 14th, I just thought of going one level of Cleric to grab Divine scrolls and wands. And a couple of low lvl buffs to boot. The turning attempts would be nice if I also had those feats to use turning attempts to add metamagic to my spells. But thats not available Also, my DM doesn't do the whole EXP penalty for multiclassing, but there is a limit of three classes for one character. So this one level dip can be anything and won't affect my EXP progression.
#13 kinie Apr 18, 2009 17:32:00	What's this layering of shocking grasp?? Please explain it in more detail. Ok, I re-read the spell and it doesn't say it. But I've had three different DMs rule that the spell lasts until you touch someone or someone touches you. And they all agreed that, since the duration is "instantaneous" once the spell is cast, another can be cast. Hence the spells "build up" on you, and when someone touches you they all trigger. Sorta like building up a static charge and then shocking someone when you shake their hand. Only instead of a harmless jolt you deal lots od d6 damage. RAW probably shouldn't allow this, with the duration being "instantaneous." But the DM's all went with the following logic: - Duration is instantaneous. But if no one touches you, does the spell fade? They reasoned no, and that it because like a build-up of static electricity.
#14 Dictum_Mortuum Apr 18, 2009 18:23:39	Don't get metamagic feats, cleave (and even worse, great cleave) or weapon focus/specialization. Metamagic feats: Duskblade = spontaneous caster, which means that if you apply a metamagic to your, say, standard action spell, you just made that spell non-channelable, because it is now a full-round action. Cleave: I am surprised people even consider this to be honest. Without arcane strike to mini-nova, this is even more worthless. Weapon Focus: A feat for +1 to hit with a specific weapon. You had me at +1. Weapon Specialization: Channel a shocking grasp: +5d6 damage. Take a feat by investing in 4 levels of a class that delays your casting progression: +2 damage. Duh. Now, what to take. The answer is simple: take only feats that matter and do their job well. Examples: combat expertise (combos at low levels with true strike, too :D), power attack (as per combat expertise, and you can also use them together at low levels!), improved trip, leadership (ok, ok, i know :p and yes, i hate myself for suggesting this :p), improved initiative, improved sunder (yeah, i know, sundering loot is bad, but this is actually for spell pouchs, arrows, quivers and the like), brutal strike (-2 to saves to make the disabler's life a lot more easier, plus you should be using a two handed weapon anyway), exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain) - although i find guisarme to be just fine. I also generally like feats like defensive sweep and robilar's gambit, but i don't recommend them. Because a) they require dexterity, normally a dump stat and b) you can't do much with AoOs, except if you are tripping people with reach.
#15 eldritch_lord Apr 19, 2009 5:20:19	RAW probably shouldn't allow this, with the duration being "instantaneous." It doesn't. Touch spells dissipate if you cast another spell, unfortunately, so that's not going to work.
#16 imakuni67 Apr 19, 2009 18:25:34	This is a stretch of the rules, but Duelist would be a great addition if your DM allowed it. Normally you need a one-handed or light weapon but I would allow spiked chain too since it is a Weapon Finesse weapon. You might want to ask your DM if he would allow it. You'd get you INT bonus to AC, which is good since it's a vital stat as a duskblade. Otherwise I think that Duskblade 13, fighter 4, Duskblade 3 would be the way to go.
#17 spikes01k Apr 20, 2009 21:31:55	The spell channel ability at higher levels can be part of a full round action. I would go with a spike chain/whirlwind build. Allowing you to apply massive amounts of damage to multiple targets with-in 10 feat of you. "Benefit When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities. " 13th level Duskblade- Cast any touch spell as part of a full round action. Each attack that hits that round is effected by the spell. Correct me if I am wrong OP board, please. That combined with your quickened dimensional hop, you can pop into a crowd and whirlwind very nicely. P.S. Once you get that combination, I would get improved trip, and an invisibility item so that you can pop into a crowd and get a tone of attacks of opportunity perhaps to trip. As for levels, I would go Straight 20 duskblade, but that is just me.