I need help min/maxing a Gestalt level 7. I want it to be part Warlock. I was leaning toward a meleelock (glaivelock), but my mind is ever open. Can be any race up to an LA of +6 and I get an extra feat at first level.
I've been combing through books all day now and really can't come up with a super good combo for the warlock, particularly if I want to go melee route.
Help por favor!
First though, we need more information. Most importantly: What books available? In gestalt, its always useful to know, how does your DM treat LA and racial HD? Does he stick the LA/HD on a single side, stick the LA on a single side, stick HD on a single side but LA to both, stick HD on both but LA to a single side?
Anyway, a potential build is:
Warlock 7 || Fighter 2/Binder 2/Rogue 3
At level 8, take Flee the Scene and go into Teflammar Shadowlord. Use glaive and pouncing for lots of fun. You need 4 feats for TS, but 2 of them can be grabbed from the fighter levels. With human, that leaves 2 free feats to mess around with, so you can grab improved binder.
In any case, assuming you can get UE:
Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock 3 || Fighter 2/Binder 2/Rogue 3/Teflammar Shadowlord 4
is the basic build you should be aiming for.
Also, Hellfire Warlock.
A gestalt glaivelock does just fine with Warlock//Warblade. Full BAB, 4 skill points level from an excellent list, d12 Hit Dice, lots of boosts and all.
You can't use PrCs on both sides of gestalt; a PrC takes both sides.
A gestalt glaivelock does just fine with Warlock//Warblade. Full BAB, 4 skill points level from an excellent list, d12 Hit Dice, lots of boosts and all.
While my build is incorrect, that statement is also wrong. You cannot PrC on both sides of Gesalt, but you can take a prestige class along with a base class.
A build for shadow pouncing would be: Warlock 11/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3/Bloodline 3 || Fighter 2/Rogue 3/Binder 2/Teflammar Shadowlord 4/(Swordsage or Warblade 9)
Take whichever martial adept class you prefer.
My reasoning against going straight warlock/warblade is that the two classes don't synergize well. Even with eldritch glaive, warblade doesn't really give mobility to the warlock, which is one of the biggest things with warlock. Also, I don't believe Eldritch Glaive is usable with manuevers, though I may be wrong about that.
Warblade would end up being primarily for boosts and counters, and I feel shadow pouncing would result in overall more usefulness - it allows Flee the Scene to be both an offensive and mobility ability. Swordsage lets you nab the teleportation shadowhand abilities, which allows you to make 3 full attacks via shadowpouncing. However, Warblade gives more HP/Defense/BAB, and you can start to cherry pick the boosts and counters that become useful to you.
Bloodlines and Uncanny Trickster and Hellfire Warlock will result in lots of damage, as that build ends up with 23d6 per attack.
I know what Flee the Scene does, but how does that help?
Edit: Apologies for being such a noob... gotta learn somehow though
Hellfire Eldritch is 2d6 per level of hellfire warlock. You use Uncanny Trickster and a bloodline to increase your effective hellfire warlock level, so with Uncanny Trickster 3 and a Bloodline, you end up with 3(Hellfire)+2(Uncanny)+3(Bloodline) effective levels of Hellfire Warlock, resulting in a hellfire blast of 16d6. Combine that with your warlocks eldritch blast, which will be at 9d6, to have a total of 23d6 eldritch blast.
Flee the Scene is a short range dimension door. Shadow Pouncing, from Teflammar Shadowlord, allows you to make a full attack whenever you teleport to an enemy within melee range. You can Flee the Scene near an enemy, full attack via shadow pounce, and you still have a move action to make use of(For instance, there is a shadowhand maneuvar that lets you teleport as a move action, so you use that to teleport once more, and do a second full attack).
You combine all these effects for the ability to remain mobile through constant dimension dooring/moving, while still doing full attacks every turn. Use feats like Abberant Reach to increase your Eldritch Glaive reach, and you can remain safely out of harm's way and continue to do lots of damage.
The second binder level is to nab the additional binder ability. +1 Insight to attack rolls, or something like that isn't optimal, but its a nice convenient ability, and 2 levels of binder prevents multiclass penalties if your DM does multiclass penalties on different sides. Theres lots you can do instead of the second binder level, though.
Also: That build should be Warlock 11/Hellfire Warlock 3. Because of Gesalt, you can't take 2 prestige classes at the same time, and shadow pouncing is more important to get than additional damage. Drop out of TS at level 11, and enter hellfire warlock.
Edit: Getting 2 additional levels of fighter in there may be useful after TS, if your DM rules that you can pick up Melee Weapon Mastery and Slashing Flurry from PHBII. That will net you another iterative attack with Eldritch Glaive, and the -5 is negligible considering its all touch attacks.
Warlock 20 // Ghaele 20
Warlock 18/ Chameleon 2 // Ghaele 20
Warlock 20 // Pixie 3/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Chameleon 2/ X13
Peace,
Necro
Pixie 4/ Ranger 2/ Fighter 1 // Warlock 7
free :
Greater Invisibility constant
Flight 60'(Good)
DR 12/ Cold Iron ..... Warlock DR stacks with Pixie DR
SR 22
then add on all the Warlock Stuff and Skills,Feats,Saves,HD from Ranger and Fighter
kicks butt :P
:D
Strogheart Halfling
Warlock 7 // Chaos Monk + Fighter feats monk variant 7
Feats
1.- Unorthodox Flurry(Eldricht Glaive); Improved Initiative ; Weapon Finesse m
2.- Combat Reflexes m
3.- Ascetic Mage
4.- -
5.- -
6.- Empower Spell-like ability; Hold the Line m
ALL GOOD SAVES
HD 8
BAB = 4
Full Attack +3 (plus DEX; touch attack) * (1+1d4) times
Damage 4d6 or 6d6
Its not WOW, considering what you can do in a Gestalt game, but its decent.
You need the improved initiative position youself properly.
The main problem its that this needs a tank in front of you to be most effective.
Humbly yours,
Yawar Fiesta
Did i miss something?
Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected.
wont affect Warlock very much except for Skill ranks, Overcoming SR ... since very few Calculations are based on levels for a Warlock
:D
Warlock does not qualify for Ascetic Mage.
Didn´t Ascetic Mage asked for arcane caster levels rather than the ability to cast arcane spells?
Anyway, it was just to reduce the MAD. A warlock couldn´t burn slots to to improve his Unarmed Damage.
:D
Did i miss something?
Yep. Bloodline levels don't advance anything, they simply are added in for level-based calculations, so if you take 3 bloodline levels and then a level of hellfire warlock, you get +8d6 hellfire damage right from the outset. The Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion classes, however, do advance an existing class, so those do have to be taken after hellfire warlock.
wont affect Warlock very much except for Skill ranks, Overcoming SR ... since very few Calculations are based on levels for a Warlock
:D
The Hellfire Warlock is what's being affected--Hellfire Blast is "+2d6 damage per hellfire warlock level," which is a level-based calculation. Regular warlock levels are unaffected.
Also, the final damage is only 22d6, not 23d6, I totally forgot that after level 11 warlock gains 1d6 per 3 levels, not 2.
How about
Warlock 20 // Ghaele 20
Warlock 18/ Chameleon 2 // Ghaele 20
Warlock 20 // Pixie 3/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Chameleon 2/ X13
Peace,
Necro
Oops Chameleon only works with human, changeling, or doppelganger, (thanks carnivore for reminding me - I'm a bit rusty on my 3E-fu) but the basic ideas are still solid.
Warlock // Ghaele
or
Warlock // Pixie + X
Peace,
Necro
PS - Or what about:
Warlock 20 // Half Celestial / Cleric / Eldritch Disciple/ Paladin of Freedom 2
You could blast and heal from everywhere and your Charisma would be true da roof.
Warlock PrC that grants healing through EB (away from books)
Eldritch Disciple? Its the cleric/warlock theurge...
EDIT: Its in Complete Mage, btw.
Eldritch Disciple? Its the cleric/warlock theurge...
EDIT: Its in Complete Mage, btw.
Yep, that is it. thanks.
Necro
Be careful when adding prestige classes like eldritch disciple. The gestalt rules specifically state that the DM should ban prestige classes like eldrtich disciple. While the rules don't outright ban such classes, its explicitly stated that DM's shouldn't allow such classes.
Yeah, you're right. I knew that. *Puts foot in mouth* I've been 4E for so long I need to rewire my brain for 3E before I start laying smack down.
Peace,
Necro
Shadowpounce allows you to do a full attack whenever you teleport.
Eldritch Glaive is a full round action Invocation, not a melee full attack.
As a full-round action, you may make a single melee touch attack as if wielding a reach weapon..... If your base attack is +6 or higher you can make as many attacks as your base attack bonus will allow
It says nothing that the invocation itself is a full-round action. The attack is the full-round action. Putting an eldritch essence invocation on an eldritch blast doesn't change it from being a standard action.
Shadow pounce comes in because it allows one to:
Anytime he [a Shadowlord] uses an ability, effect, or spell with the teleportation descriptor, he may execute a full attack upon completion of the teleportation.
This allows him to make the full attack the glaive requires after teleporting through the door using flee the scene.
Did i get it right?
Did i get it right?
No. All invocations are the spell like abilities and they all handle pretty much identically to spell casting. Just like you cannot 'full attack' a spell you cannot full attack a spell like ability.
Full attacks apply only to melee, ranged or thrown weapons. While they are weapon like spells and SLA's, nowhere does it say you can full attack with them.
While EGlaive works a lot LIKE a melee attack, it still is NOT one. It is an Invocation: Eldritch Blast modified with a blast shape: Eldritch Glaive. It is still an SLA and still treated as an SLA. It merely has a wierd blast shape which makes it mimic a lot of melee attack mechanics.
EG does not even let you make full attacks. It gives you a number of attacks based on your BAB for a Full Round action. Nowhere in EG does it say you can make a full attack action with it.
Full attack action is not identical to a full round action and vice versa.
Honestly, its a wierd rule. It doesn't ban it, it just tells the DM's to watch out for it. By looking at pure RAW, its perfectly legal to have such classes in a gesalt build, and frankly most DM's don't catch that little clause in the first place, so they allow it. Just be careful when using dual progression classes in a gesalt build is all I'm saying.
in an upcoming gestalt game im going to DM, i am allowing theurge/gish PrCs but only if they take up both slots for the given level. this way, if the players want the specific flavor of the PrC or some special ability only granted by it, they can get it without triple or quadruple advancement cheese.
Other than that I have only to say:
Touche, good sir, Touche. I stand corrected.
Feats:
(flaw) meager fortitude (-3 fortitude save)
(flaw) Weak Willed (-3 Will save)
Swash 1: Weapon Finesse
Flaw 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain
Flaw 2: Weapon Expertise
Level 1: Improved Trip
Level 3: monkey grip (can't remember if spiked chain is 2 handed but if it's only 1 handed then you can wield a 15 foot reach one, otherwise take spell focus (illusion) )
Level 6: Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
You get access to the following through this combination:
Melee ability: (with free finesse/good BAB from swashbuckler levels)
limited MAD: charisma > Dexterity > Intelligence > Strength = Constitution > Wisdom.
Hideous blow channeled into a spiked chain while behind your thrall = awesome.
Your attack damage will be based on 2d4 (or more if large spiked chain) + Int mod + Eldritch blast + strength mod.
Sorcerer level will go up with mindbender, but will not become the focus of the build, just a perk.
Act as the party face. You'll have massive bluff, diplomacy, and/or intimidate, and adecquate sense motive (due in part to mindbender class features and skill ranks from the three classes)
Primary Tactics:
Buff yourself for the day before battle using sorcerer spells (mage armor primarily)
1. Send thrall, charm-ee, or other party member into melee combat
2. Get 10 feet away from your enemy with your thrall between you and said enemy.
3. Smack enemy with hideous blowed attack using long spiked chain.
4. If said enemy is smart, he'll take it like a *$#$, if he's dumb, he'll walk around your thrall (sorry, party member), provoking attacks of op from both the thrall (PARTY MEMBER) and yourself.
In case of a flying or ranged enemy:
1. Cast charm person (or eternal charm at higher mindbender levels)
2. Use them in the tactic stated above.
or if it fails
2.5. Kill them first (you should also be flying at level 7)
If enemy is a spellcaster
1. Same tactic as the original tactic, however, stick closer to your thrall as the spell caster won't likely try to engage you in melee combat.
Just an idea, I'm sure there are better optimization ideas out there, but this is a very usable one that the DM probably won't ban.