Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 hadrius May 15, 2010 16:07:32	I am bringing a new character into an existing campaign that has spanned level 1-10 (we are on the verge of hitting 11).  The party is composed of: Freakin' big hairy bally of claws and teeth with elemental friends - Elven Druid in giant bear form who is found of elementals and flamestrike (or pillar of fire?) Racist elven cleric with a disdain for humans - highest AC in group @ 34 & uses divine power to wade into melee combat and Flame strike (or pillar of fire?) to take out multiple enemies. Quiet 1/2 elf wizard who plays with a bow (Wizard/Fighter/Arcane archer) The DM, Co-DM & other players decided my Warlock was to powerful and wanted to limit the number of invocations to 2 (one at 1st level and second at 6th).  The class already felt weak because of:  low damage: Avg of 24pts @ level 10 lowish HP: Character has 67 HP & monsters hit in the 25+ range which also made the DR less useful low AC: 23 (chain shirt +2, Dex 20, Ring of Prot +2)      I did love the mobility of this class with Flee the Scene & ability to bluff the enemies with Beguiling Influence & Hat of Disguise. I've been on the fence about bringing in a new character simply to keep the other players happy but now with the limitation on invocations, its time for this character to retire.  Here are the character generation rules I have to follow: Character starting stats are 17,16,15,14,13,12. I can subtract 2 from one stat and add +1 to another stat up to 3 times.   Race is limited to player's handbook & I'd prefer to stick with half-elf or elf.  I can make one customization to Race (like half-elf gains proficiency in bow) The starting gold is $49K and I can only buy magic items that cost less than 24.5K. Source material is limited to: Players Handbook (PH) Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG) Unearthed Arcana (UA) Complete Arcane (CArc) Complete Mage   Complete Divine (CDiv) Complete Adventurer (CAdv) Manual of Planes Planar Handbook  I am not familiar with 3.5 but have DM 2.5 & 4.0.  I would love a skill monkey with good chance to crit which leads me to a dual wield Fighter/rogue/Horizon Walker or Ranger/Horizon Walker.  Any help on optimizing the following character (or suggestions for another character that will fit with the party) would be greatly appreciated! 1/2 Elf - CG Customize: Knowledge Geography in class Stats: Str:15(16)   Con:14   Dex:17(18)   Int:16   Wis12   Chr:13  <== Based on Lvl 10 Levels/Class/BAB/Feats (BF: Bonus Fighter Feat) 01 - Rogue  - 0 - Two-Weapon Fighting  02 - Fighter - 1 - BF: Weapon Focus (Short Sword) 03 - Rogue  - 2 -  Two Weapon Defense 04 - Fighter - 3 - BF: Weapon Finesse (Short Sword) 05 - Fighter - 4  06 - Rogue  - 5 - Rapid Reload (Crossbow) 07 - Fighter - 6 - BF: Weapon Specialization (Short Sword) 08 - Fighter - 7   09 - Rogue  - 8 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting 10 - Fighter - 9 - BF: Improved Critical (Short Sword) 11 - Fighter - 10 12 - Fighter - 11 - BF: Greater Two Weapon Fighting 13 - Horizon Walker - 12   14 - Horizon Walker - 13 15 - Horizon Walker - 14 - Weapon Focus (Crossbow) 16 - Horizon Walker - 15 17 - Horizon Walker - 16 18 - Horizon Walker - 17 -Weapon Specialization (Crossbow) 19 - Horizon Walker - 18 20 - Horizon Walker - 19 ==--OR--== 1/2 Elf - CG Customize: Stats: Str:15(16)   Con:16(14)   Dex:17(20)   Int:14   Wis13   Chr:12  <== Based on Lvl 10 Levels/Class/Feats (BR: Bonus Ranger)  01 - Ranger - Weapon Finesse (Short Sword)  02 - Ranger - BR: 2-Weapon Fighting 03 - Ranger - Weapon Focus (Short Sword) 04 - Ranger  05 - Ranger    06 - Ranger - Two Weapon Defense, BR: Imp 2-Weapon Fighting 07 - Ranger  08 - Ranger  09 - Ranger - Improved Critical (Short Sword) 10 - Ranger  11 - Ranger - BR: Greater Two Weapon Fighting 12 - Ranger - Rapid Reload 13 - Horizon Walker  14 - Horizon Walker  15 - Horizon Walker - Weapon Focus (Crossbow) 16 - Horizon Walker  17 - Horizon Walker  18 - Horizon Walker - Run 19 - Horizon Walker  20 - Horizon Walker  ========================================= Equipment @ level 10 (49K gold) +2 Adamantine Short Sword (10+3000+ 8000=11,010)  +2 Cold Iron Short Sword (20+2000+8000=10,020) Mitheral Chain Shirt +2 (4000+1100=5,100) Ring of Protection +2 (8K) Ring of Sustenance (2.5K) Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (8K) Bag of Holding Type 2 - (2.5K) (5) Potion - Cure Moderate Wounds (1500) GP Spent: 11010+10020+5100+8000+2500+8000+2500+1500=48,630
#2 carnivore May 15, 2010 17:17:05	i would suggest being an Archer ..... here is an example of a Core only archer: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... @10th lvl .... looks like this: Human Ranger 6/ Fighter 4 finish like This: Ranger 6/ Fighter 4/ Horizon Walker 7/ Shadowdancer 2 18 Str (Base 16 +2 item) 20 Dex (Base 17 +1 level +2 item) 18 Con (Base 15 +1 Level +2 item) 14 Int (Base 14) 13 Wis (Base 13) 12 Cha (Base 12) Feats: 1st lvl Point Blank Shot Weapon Focus(Composite Long bow)(human Bonus) Track (Ranger Bonus) Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus) 3rd lvl Precise Shot/ Endurance (Ranger Bonus) 6th lvl Dodge/ Many Shot (Ranger Bonus) Mobility (Fighter Bonus) Combat Reflexes(Fighter Bonus) 9th lvl Quickdraw Weapon Specialization(Composite Longbow)(Fighter Bonus) Equipment: 18800gp +1 Shock Frost Mighty(+4 Str) Composite Longbow 800gp Mighty(+4 Str) Masterwork Composite Longbow ..... backup bow 315gp Masterwork Longsword 3600gp 2xEfficient Quiver 3350gp 50 Adamantine Arrows 700gp 50 Cold Iron Arrows 352gp 50 Alchemical Silver Arrows 1205gp +1 Darkwood Buckler 2150gp +1 Mithral Chain Shirt with Armor Spikes 2500gp Ring of Sustenance 750 Wand of Cure Light wounds 2000gp Handy Haversack 4000gp +2 Belt of Str 4000gp +2 Amulet of Con 4000gp +2 Gloves od Dex 478gp left .... suggest Mundane Equipment, Warhorses, Guard Dogs, Alchemical Items(lots of these ...Tanglefoot Bags are Awesome)
#3 Maat_Mons May 15, 2010 19:08:33	If you still want to be warlock-ish, you could use reserve feats (Complete Mage). Cloistered cleric can be a skill monkey, particularly if you select the right domains. You might want to see if you can get wild elf approved.
#4 hadrius May 16, 2010 17:24:55	Carnivore: That is a great build! Unfortunately, the Arcane Archer player needs to be very unique in the group and would be difficult to deal with if I brought in a bow character that surpasses him.  I did snag some of the equipment ideas in my attempted build which is below. Maat_Mons: Great suggestions! For the same reason I don't want to bring in an Archer, I'm leaning away from bringing in a Mage. The party already has a cleric or the Cloistered cleric would be a fun class to play.  I'll definitely ask about the wild elf option.  I spoke with the GM & Co-GM and they definitely wants me to bring in an Elf (easier to insert into party).   Right now, a dervish like character with high crit potential, sneak attack spike damage and a dash of skill monkey looks to be where I'm heading.  Here is what I have come up with.  Please let me know if there is something I can do or different equipment I can take to enhance his damage dealing & mobility:   Theocalis Desel -  Elf - CG Customize: Knowledge Geography in class Stats: Str:15(16)   Con:16 (14)   Dex:17(20)   Int:14   Wis13  Chr:12  <== Based on Lvl 10 Levels/Class(lvl)/BAB/Feats (BF: Bonus Fighter Feat, BRa: Bonus Ranger, BRo: Bonus Rogue) 01 - Rogue(1)   - 0 -  Quick Draw, BRo: TrapFinding 02 - Ranger(1)  - 1 - BR: Track, BR:Wild Empathy 03 - Ranger(2)  - 2 - BR: Two-Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense 04 - Fighter(1)  - 3 - BF: Weapon Focus (Short Sword) 05 - Fighter(2)  - 4 - BF: Weapon Finesse (Short Sword)  06 - Rogue(2)   - 5 - <>, BRo: Evasion 07 - Fighter(3)  - 6 - Improved Two weapon Fighting 08 - Ranger(3)  - 7 - BR:Endurance    09 - Fighter(4)  - 8 - BF: Weapon Specialization (Short Sword), Improved Critical (Short Sword) 10 - Horizon Walker(1) - 9 - BHW: Dark Vision, BHW: +1 vrs underground 11 - Rogue(3) - 10 - BRo: Trap Sense +1 12 - Horizon Walker(2) - 11 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting 13 - Horizon Walker(3) - 12   14 - Horizon Walker(4) - 13 15 - Horizon Walker(5) - 14 - Dodge 16 - Horizon Walker(6) - 15 17 - Horizon Walker(7) - 16 18 - Horizon Walker(8) - 17 - Mobility 19 - Horizon Walker(9) - 18 20 - Horizon Walker(10) - 19 Equipment Belt of Strength +2 (4K) Gloves of Dex +2 (4K) Ring of Sustenance (2.5K) Handy Haversack (2K) Elven Chainmail +2 (5,250) Animated Hvy Wooden Shield +1 (9000) (2) Short Sword +2 (16,020) Might Composite Longbow (500) Boots of Springing & Striding (5,500) 60gp left AC: 26  Fort: 9  Ref: 7  Will: 2 Note: Magical Armor pluses add to maximum dex bonus.  So Elven Chainmail +2 allows for up to a 6 bonus from dex.
#5 hadrius May 17, 2010 23:31:23	Anyone have a suggestion on a different prestige class that might grant more sneak attack dice or maybe better equipment.   I just found out that I can reduce the bonus on my weapons and include extra damage from an effect (like flame).  Is it worth it to reduce the +to hit/dmg? Also, any recommendations on what type of added effect damage type is appreciated! Thanks!
#6 bahamuthian_guard May 18, 2010 9:19:28	i believe sonic is widely used becouse not many creatures are immune or resistant against them. and as to trading the hit and damage bonus for extra damage dice. i think its worth it most of the time though im not really much of a mathemathician. also for your choice of energy you can look at what energy resistances your dm's favored monsters have. it sometimes is very inspiring.
#7 urpriest May 18, 2010 10:45:09	First of all, it's my understanding that you don't need to take Weapon Finesse (Shortsword), as Weapon Finesse doesn't require you to choose a weapon in 3.5, but instead works with any light weapon and the Rapier. Second, why aren't you using a weapon with a natural 18-20 crit range? If you want a crit build that seems important. You have proficiency with Rapiers and Kukris, both can benefit from Weapon Finesse. I'd suggest dual-wielding Kukris. Regarding weapon properties, if you're critting a lot take a look at the various weapon properties that trigger on a crit, some are quite nice and may be worth a lower attack/base damage.
#8 hadrius May 18, 2010 22:45:41	Bahamuthian_guard - Great suggestion! I looked in the DMG and did not find any method to add Sonic damage to a melee attack except during a crit.  What boggles my mind is why would anyone choose an extra d8 on crit when they can get a d6 damage on any hit. I'll keep looking. urpriest - After some contemplation, I'm going to re-arrange the stats so the character has an 18 Str and 18 Dex at level 10.  That will free up a feat that I can use for something fun  For some reason, when I looked at the Rapier, I saw its damage as a d4 and not a d6.  I choose the short sword initially because I still want to do decent damage on a hit.  The dual Kukris seems closer to my idea than dual rapiers, except the rapiers has the better damage.   If this weren't a combat heavy campaign, I'd go with the Kukris in a heartbeat.  Now I need to come to terms with what I want to do....  Thank you for pointing out the Kukris & that it doesn't require an extra feat to learn. I appreciate the help with this!
#9 bahamuthian_guard May 19, 2010 10:24:11	as for interesting enhancements for your weapon. if it is critical hits you want you might want to go with enervating(MIC). its a +2 enchancement that bestowes one negative level on a critical hit. but since MIC isnt on your booklist you'll have to go with consumtive burst from the planar handbook. wich is at a +3. that is if you want the same effect although this ability also gives you an extra d6 damage on regular hits. so much for now i guess.
#10 death_isthe_begining May 19, 2010 10:25:32	Considering what there is to work with it's no wonder the party is all casters. Deadly Precision (Complete Adventurer) is a magic weapon trait that gives 2d6 more Sneak Attack. Take a look at the Oversized Two Weapon Fighting feat to make it easier to wield 2 one-handed weapons. The Tempest PrC is focused on mobile two weapon fighting. The Nightsong Infiltrator can give Sneak Attack to party members who target your opponent (remember that ball of fur and teeth with friends). You could also dip a level of Spelltheif for an Sneak Attack die. By the way you could have upped the Warlocks AC by grabbing the Battle Caster feat and some mithril heavy armor.
#11 tr0llman May 19, 2010 13:24:33	I am bringing a new character into an existing campaign that has spanned level 1-10 (we are on the verge of hitting 11).  The party is composed of: Freakin' big hairy bally of claws and teeth with elemental friends - Elven Druid in giant bear form who is found of elementals and flamestrike (or pillar of fire?) Racist elven cleric with a disdain for humans - highest AC in group @ 34 & uses divine power to wade into melee combat and Flame strike (or pillar of fire?) to take out multiple enemies. Quiet 1/2 elf wizard who plays with a bow (Wizard/Fighter/Arcane archer) The DM, Co-DM & other players decided my Warlock was to powerful and wanted to limit the number of invocations to 2 (one at 1st level and second at 6th).  The class already felt weak because of:  Let me get this straight. In a party with a wizard, a cleric and a druid, your warlock is considered overpowered? *disbelief*
#12 death_isthe_begining May 19, 2010 14:38:24	I am bringing a new character into an existing campaign that has spanned level 1-10 (we are on the verge of hitting 11).  The party is composed of: Freakin' big hairy bally of claws and teeth with elemental friends - Elven Druid in giant bear form who is found of elementals and flamestrike (or pillar of fire?) Racist elven cleric with a disdain for humans - highest AC in group @ 34 & uses divine power to wade into melee combat and Flame strike (or pillar of fire?) to take out multiple enemies. Quiet 1/2 elf wizard who plays with a bow (Wizard/Fighter/Arcane archer) The DM, Co-DM & other players decided my Warlock was to powerful and wanted to limit the number of invocations to 2 (one at 1st level and second at 6th).  The class already felt weak because of:  Let me get this straight. In a party with a wizard, a cleric and a druid, your warlock is considered overpowered? *disbelief* Will disbelief failed you can't breathe and don't know why.
#13 urpriest May 19, 2010 16:31:46	Bahamuthian_guard - Great suggestion! I looked in the DMG and did not find any method to add Sonic damage to a melee attack except during a crit.  What boggles my mind is why would anyone choose an extra d8 on crit when they can get a d6 damage on any hit. I'll keep looking. urpriest - After some contemplation, I'm going to re-arrange the stats so the character has an 18 Str and 18 Dex at level 10.  That will free up a feat that I can use for something fun  For some reason, when I looked at the Rapier, I saw its damage as a d4 and not a d6.  I choose the short sword initially because I still want to do decent damage on a hit.  The dual Kukris seems closer to my idea than dual rapiers, except the rapiers has the better damage.   If this weren't a combat heavy campaign, I'd go with the Kukris in a heartbeat.  Now I need to come to terms with what I want to do....  Thank you for pointing out the Kukris & that it doesn't require an extra feat to learn. I appreciate the help with this!  Without weapon finesse, the rapier is equivalent to the scimitar, which gives you an additional choice. Both will give you a -4 (rather than -2) twf penalty when used in your offhand, as neither is light, which may be a problem. Tempest will help if you can fit the sping attack tree in to get in, as it lets you apply all your fun weapon-specific feats to your offhand weapon if they apply to the main hand, so you can go scimitar-kukri and the like with lower to-hit penalties.
#14 hadrius May 19, 2010 22:39:06	death_isthe_begining: I had completely missed the Tempest Prestige Class.  I'll see if I can fit in the feats necessary to make that happen.  The GM & Co-GM have started to incrementally put limits on what terrain I can possibly attune myself to with Horizon Walker.  I am beginning to suspect they have a problem with any class they are not comfortable with.  Those are some nice feats, I'll see if they'll let me take them. Tr0llman: Even with retiring my character they still say Warlocks are broken and over powered.  The Arcane Archer has gone so far as to say that the Warlock with one attack would out damage him against opponents that wear chainmail or higher.  Discussions on the versatility he has, the multiple attacks he gets (we face monsters with darkness/miss effect & spell penetration so every hit still has a miss chance) still falls on deaf ears. bahamuthian_guard: Awesome enchants.  I can only purchase magic items out of the DMG but I'll keep my eyes peeled for a mage who might be able to make a Kukri with that enhancement.   urpriest: I've decided to go with dual wielding Kukri. It goes well with the character idea and I can deal with doing less damage.    Thank you all for your help! My character and gaming experience will definitely benefit from your guidance and suggestions.