Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dbay Jun 10, 2009 22:17:42	So I built this airship. And it's cool. It rocks. It destroys. However, it keeps getting hit by annoying magical attacks and such. One day, my party assassin realizes that magic items get saving throws against stuff, and this airship is heavily enchanted. I don't want to go the SR route (my airship is basically a small flying stronghold from stronghold builder's guide) because it applies to everyone inside, too, and that could get annoying when healing comes around. So I want to be able to shrug off all the disintegrates and sound lances that come my way by making my fort saves. So far, I only have two things going for me: 1) 1/2 the CL of the highest enchantment on the ship +2 (currently a CL 15 plane shift ability) 2)the entire thing is dwarvencrafted, for +2 saves All books, including campaign specific, are open. Preferably no psionics, but thats not hard-and-fast. Any ideas? right now, one well-placed disintegrate spells out TPK. EDIT: Also, so long as we're talking about airships, any idea of how to calculate ramming damage? I tried using the falling object damage, but found that I did something like 15000d6 (my airship is made of solid iron via Wall of Iron abuse and therefore heavy), and I don't think my DM will buy that.
#2 xakypshalorn Jun 10, 2009 22:30:25	So far, I only have two things going for me: 1) 1/2 the CL of the highest enchantment on the ship +2 (currently a CL 15 plane shift ability) Well, here's one thing that will help. If it's 1/2 the CL of the highest enchantment, your looking at +7, one half of 15 lol. (unless there's something I'm missing?)
#3 dbay Jun 10, 2009 23:44:55	I was hoping to increase it from that. (it's actually 2+1/2 caster, so a total of +9 right now) I could shell out for a higher CL enchantment, but was hoping there was some sort of secret secondary route that I didn't know about. EDIT: reduced snark
#4 sofawall Jun 11, 2009 0:05:27	EDIT: reduced snark Always nice. Now, I'm playing a high-powered sorcerer in a low powered campaign, so to even things up I thought I'd dump some money intro an airship. I didn't even think about save-or-dies against my airship. Gonna have to look into that.
#5 dbay Jun 11, 2009 0:45:20	Some threats/concerns I've encountered, in order of danger: 1)disintegrate. If you fail a save, then 10 cubic feet/level of magically treated dwarvencraft obdurium-vibranium-adamanatium-expensive wall is just GONE. just...GONE. it's so sad, it hurts. 2)plane-shift. Some *****bag actually planeshifted us to the elemental plane of fire in the middle of a fight. 3)teleportation. Casters just warp in and kill things. 4)turret placement/problems. Someone infiltrated one of our Sonic Lance turrets and used it to try to shoot another one. Also, place your guns and things around so they can all shoot as many targets as possible but not fire when targeting yourself 5)antimagic fields. depending on what powers your ship, you may just fly into one of these and FALL. 6)LOCK YOUR DOORS. Some hints: Private Sanctum the whole thing, Hauntshift your cohort, your follower, or yourself into the ship. Someone else on the forum did this too, but your guy basically becomes the ship. It's neat. (from libris mortis). Look in the stronghold builder's guide for lots of good stuff. Try to figure out how you would go about attacking your airship, and come up with ways to stop that
#6 xakypshalorn Jun 11, 2009 0:50:21	Sorry for inspiring snark Dbay, I thought you'd misread something. Happens to me sometimes. I wish I knew more about objects and could be more help. Oh, wait, I think I might have something. The formula in the DMG for resistance bonuses doesn't say the item has to apply to a person. I imagine it would be possible to craft an item of Resistance for your ship as well. costs 25,000 for +5, but it could be worth it. (Be funny as heck if you made reflex saves with it lol, talk about evasive action.)
#7 dbay Jun 11, 2009 0:56:39	Sorry for inspiring snark Dbay, I thought you'd misread something. Happens to me sometimes. I wish I knew more about objects and could be more help. Don't worry about it. My fault, really. Oh, wait, I think I might have something. The formula in the DMG for resistance bonuses doesn't say the item has to apply to a person. I imagine it would be possible to craft an item of Resistance for your ship as well. costs 25,000 for +5, but it could be worth it. (Be funny as heck if you made reflex saves with it lol, talk about evasive action.) Genius! Brilliance! I'm not sure what would be funnier- making a relfex save, or making a will save. Caster: "Whaddya mean that inanimate lump of iron has enough mental prowess to defeat my spell? Screw this! I'm gonna retrain as a fighter. *grumblegrumblegrumble*" Me: MWAHAHAHAHAHA Ship: I can't talk because I am inanimate.
#8 xakypshalorn Jun 11, 2009 0:59:19	Do remember though Dbay, as an inanimate object, it's immune to 98% of will save effects. But still though... I'd probably fall off the chair laughing if that happened lmao. Also, is it possible to enchant a ship's hull as Armor? Items gain a bonus on saves = to their enhancement bonus. +5 to hopefully shrug off a couple of balista bolts, and more importantly, another 25k expense for +5 to saves.
#9 sofawall Jun 11, 2009 1:42:36	Wait... Are we seriously going to try to find a way to make the DMG count a flying ****ing fortress as armour, just so it's harder to disitegrate? What depths will we go to... Also, I didn't even think of preparing for Plane Shift... Good thing it's built of Obdurium and Walls of Force.
#10 emy Jun 11, 2009 1:46:37	Could you animate it, attach a bunch of weapons to it, and enchant them all with the Spellblade property for whichever spells you least want it to get hit by?
#11 xakypshalorn Jun 11, 2009 1:50:30	I was actually thinking the ship's hull should already have an armor quality of some sort for protection from enemy missiles. I just thought we could attach an enhancement bonus to it as armor.
#12 sofawall Jun 11, 2009 2:04:03	I think it's more a wondrous item than armour.
#13 telehax Jun 11, 2009 2:37:52	Make it intelligent and then equip it with a Spellblade(Disintegrate). So it reflects all disintegrate spells back at the guy.
#14 dbay Jun 11, 2009 13:14:18	Make it intelligent and then equip it with a Spellblade(Disintegrate). So it reflects all disintegrate spells back at the guy. Disintegrate is but one of many threats. Wait... Are we seriously going to try to find a way to make the DMG count a flying ****ing fortress as armour, just so it's harder to disitegrate? What depths will we go to... Also, I didn't even think of preparing for Plane Shift... Good thing it's built of Obdurium and Walls of Force. I think you can planeshift walls of force. but you can certainly disintegrate them. Obdurium too. A level up from now, my cohort will have enough HD to animate anything up to colossal size (from his hauntshift powers-see libris mortis). The airship is colossal, so it could all be an animated creature... but that might actually lower it's saves. However, if we give it +5full plate (like, a thin layer of iron protecting my 3 foot thick iron ship) then only it's armour gets saves... I don't think it would work. Also it is really expensive. Animated objects get way less hit points, too; and as one creature lots of spells and effects can hit it with ease. I think its more of a liability. Also, the saves would only be +10 from the armour, which I think is lower than what I can already get to. Here's my current plan, tell me if any of it wouldn't work: 1)Give it some CL 20 enchantment. thats 2+1/CL= +12 base saves 2)Dwarvencraft (races of stone) +2 saves=+14 3)[can I do this?] give it a magic enchantment of +1 luck, +1insight, +1profane, +1sacred to all saves (2500 each)=+18 4)cast Resistance, Superior from the spell compendium (only works on creatures, though...) for +6 to all saves=+24 modifier to all saves. Try to cast Mending on me now, biatch. ALSO: Does it count as an attended object if it's haunted? if so, then my cohort could make all of the saves for it, and maximising saves on a person is a little more straightforward
#15 sofawall Jun 11, 2009 13:22:52	I think you can planeshift walls of force. but you can certainly disintegrate them. Obdurium too. I don't care if you can, I can survive it :D Then come back tomorrow when I prepare the right spell.
#16 xakypshalorn Jun 11, 2009 13:24:42	Two words for you Dbay, EMPERIAL (sp) Armor, from the Book of Exalted deeds iirc. It lets you transfer your Armor enhancement bonus directly to your saving throws.
#17 emy Jun 11, 2009 13:25:17	Could you animate it, attach a bunch of weapons to it, and enchant them all with the Spellblade property for whichever spells you least want it to get hit by? I'm uncertain how to ensure that it is able to wield all of these. Build a bunch of arms+hands onto the ship before animating it, I guess? +1 Spellblade (for disintegrate, etc) +1 Defending (for AC) +1 Spellstrike (for saves vs spells/spell-likes) It's cheaper to have them be in separate weapons, as far as I know. Depending on the DM, multiple Defending or Spellstrike weapons may or may not be able to stack. If they may, get a bunch of them, and cast a chained Greater Magic Weapon every day. For extra cheesiness, have your bunches of weapons be Shuriken, since they're enchanted as ammunition.
#18 lormador Jun 11, 2009 20:59:18	Take Leadership. Obtain spellcasting cohort able to cast Magic Jar and possessed of the defenses to be used against the spells in question. And the Still Spell feat. Animate Objects the airship. Cast Permanency. Cohort casts Magic Jar, possessing the ship, and abjures self to protect from those nasty spells. Granted, this only works for 1 hour/level of the Magic Jar caster, but that spell could be Extended, and since it's possible to Plane Shift the ship, one could use that defensively as well, shielding it in a personal demiplane (thank you Genesis) outside of combat activities.
#19 dbay Jun 11, 2009 23:14:32	Take Leadership. Obtain spellcasting cohort able to cast Magic Jar and possessed of the defenses to be used against the spells in question. And the Still Spell feat. Animate Objects the airship. Cast Permanency. Cohort casts Magic Jar, possessing the ship, and abjures self to protect from those nasty spells. Granted, this only works for 1 hour/level of the Magic Jar caster, but that spell could be Extended, and since it's possible to Plane Shift the ship, one could use that defensively as well, shielding it in a personal demiplane (thank you Genesis) outside of combat activities. Animating the ship reduces it's hit points from somewhere in the tens of thousands to a measly 256.
#20 empirate Jun 12, 2009 9:25:52	How about not animating it, but making the whole ship a Golem? A unique, colossal Golem which can't do much by itself (except float), but is immune to most magic, has DR [lots]/adamantine, and an AC in the high 40s. Add Plane Shift etc. as spell-like abilities, make it mentally controllable by the creator (you), and maybe add a slam (ram) attack. Also, make sure there's some elemental effects which heal your Ship Golem, like an Iron Golem is healed by fire.
#21 lormador Jun 12, 2009 10:15:23	Animating the ship reduces it's hit points from somewhere in the tens of thousands to a measly 256. The ship would now, however, be a spellcaster with 256 hit points? I dunno, sounds ok to me... But that reminds me, one could alternatively (or in addition) place runes on the ship that contained spells to repair it, in the event of it being affected by various things. Placing a huge pile of runes on the hull might be fun in many ways.
#22 gilfalas_elaandrin Jun 12, 2009 11:14:05	The Halruaans of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting are famous for their skyships. Is there any info in the Shining South about them? Failing that, I think the Golem Idea is the best way to go. The ship will then have massive spell immunity and also be able to 'auto pilot'. OR Check into the old Spelljammer rules and adapt those to 3.5. It covered most if not all of the issues your worrying about here. Plus if you make it a golem you don't have to worrying about the gold limitations of trying to make it an epic magic item. Also, could you not technically claim that as an object, it is attended by the Captain of the ship and therefore able to use his saves or it's own, which ever is better? I mean your sword gets to use your saves if you wear it, why would your ship not get to if your commanding it? Is there a 'ship' slot for magic items or would a ship technically be slotless as a natural ability?
#23 dbay Jun 12, 2009 13:22:45	Hmmm... that golem idea is pretty good, actually. I wonder why every caster doesn't mind jar themselves into one? Who wouldnt want to be a 20 ft tall walking iron death machine. The DR/Adamantine is kinda pointless, though- its there to replace hardness, I think (since adamantine gets around hardness, they work out to being around the same) and my iron has 24 hardness (10+2(dwarvencraft)x2(magically treated)). Would it be more effective to have my cohort possess a golem like that, or to have the cohort simply be the pilot, count the ship as an attended item, and pump up my cohort's saves? I think option number two is probably better. In case it matters, my ship currently works because I have undead haunting all of the major components. Haunted turrets, catapults, propellers, stuff like that. We have all of the haunting guys go on the same turn as my cohort (who haunts the whole ship as a location), and he gets the equivalent of like 200 actions. If haunting something doesnt count as attending it, I don't know what does. Also, as a redundancy system, its enchanted with stronghold mobility from the Guide. that way, a dispel wont kill me, neither will an exorcism.
#24 BloodDragon Jun 12, 2009 14:33:20	1)Disintegrate: Losing precious Material, nothing comes to mind ... 2)Plane-shift: Dimensional Lock your own ship. Also regular Planeshift can’t take things the size of ships or more then a single unwilling creature. 3) Teleportation Problems: Anticipate Teleport Greater, Spell Compedium. I love this spell it will last 24 hours with one casted (48 extended) and will suspend any teleportation for 3 rounds. The beauty to that is if your ship is in motion the Tele-o-ttackers will simply drop into mid air behind your ship. Not even epic can stop this. Simply chuck the rock you cast the spell on into a bag of holding when you wish to supress the effect. 4)Turret placement/problems: Remodel your ship, no need to complicate things. Move the ‘Cannons’ into sides of the lower decks like the old pirating vessels, and have only one swivel gun up top if you really need it. Can not be shot at by something that can not be aimmed at yourself. 5)Antimagic Field: 10 foot radius and must be centered on the caster himself. Unless the Airship is no bigger then a row bow this spell is not a problem to begin with. Antimagic Aura: Only affect Creatures Antimagic Ray: Must be close within 40ft so the caster must be flying himself, and save vs the will save of any creature attending the object. I assume that "could" mean that it gets the highest will save aboard or no saving throw at all. Suggestions are suggestions I do not claim these will "Fix" all of your problems, but there other ways of doings things then just rolling for saving throws, and outside of the dreaded Disintegrate you did cover the major concerns for every Airship owner. Back on to Topic However! I am reminded of the Choas Ships the Demons of the Abyss use by binding Vrock souls to a Airship. Chcek out the rules on Items and Demonic Possessions. A Planar Binding spell might fix alot of your problems.