Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 disciple_of_juiblex Apr 03, 2008 13:54:26	Hello, Ive ran into an issue with a soon to be upcoming game. You see I typically play rogues or sometimes sorcerers. However over time ive become the basic face of our basic core group no matter the composition of the party itself. Ive asked them and they feel fine with that because then they feel like they can specialize their characters in other areas, one guy likes non-magical ranged (rarely a cleric as well), while the other guy likes physical combat and not the spell casting systems. Anyways we were told the specifics of our next game, and I wanted to really switch it for me and kind of specialize being the face of the group, instead of having that tacked on my character. I also have a strong tendency to play true neutral, Neutral good, and chaotic good. Since I’m trying to do something different I decided that I wanted to go Paladin. In addition I wanted to try to break some norms and tack on some bard levels. However when this is all said and done I’m not sure how exactly to build this. I played a paladin awhile back but he wasn’t that sociable, more of a stick in the mud and honestly he didn’t last that long. Ive also never played a bard. I know there is a feat out there (complete adventurer?) that lets their music and smite damage (I think) stack with levels, but that’s about it. Rules I have to work with -32 point buy - LA 0 race ( any in my DM’s books but he has a lot so I’m golden with almost anything). -Level 5. -Alternative features and feats from his books are fine (once again he has a large library) -Approximately 10,000 gold to buy whatever at starting. Personally id like to be able to wade into melee at least competently, use some bardic music, some compactly to heal, and be a good speaker. Other than that I don’t really care. So if any one has any advice on how to pull this off, and potential prestige class to shoot for even (game will probably end around 12th or 15th level), it is greatly appreciated!
#2 operation_shoestring Apr 03, 2008 14:18:18	Hello, Ive ran into an issue with a soon to be upcoming game. You see I typically play rogues or sometimes sorcerers. However over time ive become the basic face of our basic core group no matter the composition of the party itself. Ive asked them and they feel fine with that because then they feel like they can specialize their characters in other areas, one guy likes non-magical ranged (rarely a cleric as well), while the other guy likes physical combat and not the spell casting systems. Anyways we were told the specifics of our next game, and I wanted to really switch it for me and kind of specialize being the face of the group, instead of having that tacked on my character. I also have a strong tendency to play true neutral, Neutral good, and chaotic good. Since I’m trying to do something different I decided that I wanted to go Paladin. In addition I wanted to try to break some norms and tack on some bard levels. However when this is all said and done I’m not sure how exactly to build this. I played a paladin awhile back but he wasn’t that sociable, more of a stick in the mud and honestly he didn’t last that long. Ive also never played a bard. I know there is a feat out there (complete adventurer?) that lets their music and smite damage (I think) stack with levels, but that’s about it. Rules I have to work with -32 point buy - LA 0 race ( any in my DM’s books but he has a lot so I’m golden with almost anything). -Level 5. -Alternative features and feats from his books are fine (once again he has a large library) -Approximately 10,000 gold to buy whatever at starting. Personally id like to be able to wade into melee at least competently, use some bardic music, some compactly to heal, and be a good speaker. Other than that I don’t really care. So if any one has any advice on how to pull this off, and potential prestige class to shoot for even (game will probably end around 12th or 15th level), it is greatly appreciated! Okay, so here's the rub. Bards have 4 areas of potential Excellency: Skills, Physical Combat, Magic, and Music. A competent bard picks two to focus on. I'm going to assume you want a Melee/Music Character. So, I'm thinking Bard4-6/Paladin4/Crusader10-12. You'll probably want Initiate of Millil (Or Devoted Performer) to make paladin and bard work together, and Song of the White Raven, so crusader also stacks with bard. Check out the "optimising bardic music" thread for more details... a Paladin is a prime candidate for Words of Creation. If your DM allows it, Snowflake Wardance is awesome for melee bards. The Stance "aura of perfect order" is awesome for Skills, too.
#3 Wyvernhand Apr 03, 2008 14:30:52	OK, what I'm gonna suggest may sound a bit wierd, but my friend played a similar build in Living Greyhawk with pretty decent sucess. Pal4/Bard4/DragonDisciple7 Now, get a big 2hander, like a greatsword or a glaive. Sink all of your DD bonus spells into bards 2nd level slots. Take the feats Devoted Performer, Power Attack, Divine Might, Song of the Heart, and Dragonfire Inspiration. Now...your 2nd level spell will be Whirling Blade (could it be any other?). Now, offhanded, this build seems kind of wonky, but its actually pretty nice. With a Vest of Legends, a Badge of Valor, Inspirational Boost and Song of the Heart, you have a 3+1+1+1=+6 bard song, which translates into +6d6 elemental damage depending on which dragon you worship, Gold, Brass, or Copper are fun, I like Copper because of acid damage.... You have a 12/15 BAB, but you have a monster Str and Cha score from putting those as your highest stats, increasing them with level ups, getting str and cha items and getting Dragon Disciple stat bumps. The bonus to Con is nice too. You have 3 attacks, 4 with Haste (get Boots of Speed), each gaining the benefit of Dragonfire Inspiration. Your party also gets that bonus, and TWF rogues will love you as they throw around huge handfuls of dice. Your primary ranged attack will be a full PA Divine Might Dragonfire Whirling Blade. This will do 2:1 PA damage, +1.5x str damage, +cha damage, +enhancement bonus damage +dragonfire damage, which should be a respectable amount. There are no iteratives, so you shouldn't have to worry too much about full PAing. For a weapon, consider like a +1 Collision Sudden Stunning glaive or greatsword. Sudden Stunning is from DMGII and is AMAZING for a Cha based character, and Collision is a nice weapon enchancement for shear damage since its the same type as the weapon its on. As an upgrade, consider Spellstoring if you have a party member with nice damage spells, as you can unleash it on one target of the Whirl for a bit more damage. So....any thoughts?