HELP Shapeshifting/fighter

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

khorus

Nov 19, 2008 12:56:05
I'm wanting to build a Fighter that can change shape, I don't want anykind of casting and I'm limited to a max of 3 classes, and the dm gets cranky if you pull feats from more than 3-4 books. I was thinking Fighter/Weretouched master/warshaper. Templates are OK but I'm confused about how exactly they work, such as The ecl for hit dice and figuring the number of feats. I'd like to shape into a Bear/dire bear/polar dire bear something like that. I'm wanting to use the dragon husk ability out of Dragon Magic with this build and retain the ability to use my spiked chain. Any books (have to try and stay in 3.5) are fair Game and I have 90% of them, if not my dm will have it. I'd like the character to use combat brute(breaking an enemy's weapon then owning them in the face makes me giggle) I'm new to the board and appreciate any and all suggestions, BTW I'm at work is why I'm rambling lol. The idea of this character is to scare combatants on the field, break weapons, trip enemies trying to get past him, and just pretty much terrorize his threat range. OH and btw I can't do the uber cheese of infinite trips, DM will gay me and make and I swear to god it has happened A flying bird or monster disarm me and take my chain.
#2

tordak

Nov 19, 2008 13:17:17
If you want to retain use of your chain while shapechanging you'll have to become a WereBear. Or shapechange into a gorilla. But the werebear is easy, core rule book if you start high enough or WoTC material (look up for lycanthrope template on the wizards site) if you want to build it as a class. You could be a natural or inflicted lycanthrope, and they are chaotic good. You'll retain the use of your weapon in hybrid form and DragonScale husk.
Werebear is worth 9 or 8 levels (6 bear level + 3 for natural lycanthrope template or +2 if inflicted).

Templates add a certain number of effective level to your character to determine the required experience to be at a certain level, to determine your 'Challenge Rating' (that is no how you compare in the encouter table level-wise), to determine the amount of experience you get from a fight, to determine the amout of treasure you get for your starting level. Those extra level do not automatically give you skill points, feat, additional hit dice, stats boost etc. unless it is part of the benefit of the particular template. It really is a measure of how strong you are compare to other charater even if you don't have the same amount of level. Did it help

For example, if you were a Fighter 5 Werebear, you would be considered a level 14 character : 5 fighter levels (16 skills points, 5 feats, +1 to one ability, 5D10 hit points, +5 attack bonus, +4 F, +1 R, +1 W saving throws), 6 level of 'Bear' (so +4 baba, 6d8 hit points, skills, etc. See the MM for details), and 3 level of lycanthrope template, which gives you a few perks (DR, bonus to wis and AC, etc.) but no skills points or additional hit dice.

You would have 91 000 xp, and would count as a 14 level character when determining XP gained from an encounter. You would probably adventure with level 14 PCs (roughly).
#3

altpersona

Nov 19, 2008 13:22:06
i would start with wildshape ranger variant.

add MoMF and / or Natures warrior... and your done..

and maybe be use the shifter race...
#4

khorus

Nov 19, 2008 13:45:39
Tordak, ty for the help. The feats I was talking about, and I thought I understood this till I saw another post talking about this a long time ago. Talking about gaining the feats from dire tiger, but if you already had the feats and the amount of feats had by a given level, If i'm not clear its cuz I have no idea what I'm talking about :D lol ty for the help though.
#5

peverbian

Nov 19, 2008 14:47:56
The build I so want to do at some point I think was in the Build Circus, was a Barbarian/Bear Warrior/Thief-Acrobat in some mix. Couldn't use a weapon while changed, but could do cartwheels and tumble as a dire bear with a great check.
#6

pithica

Nov 19, 2008 15:02:47
Human with the following templates:

Divine Minion
Feral

Ranger 3/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5

I won't even go in to explaining all the ways in which this is broken. Take Obtain Familiar (Hummingbird) for Alertness (required for MoMF) AND Improved Init. Destroy any and everything that crosses your path (until some wizard forcecage's you).
#7

phaedrusxy

Nov 19, 2008 15:07:27
Human with the following templates:

Divine Minion
Feral

Ranger 3/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5

I won't even go in to explaining all the ways in which this is broken. Take Obtain Familiar (Hummingbird) for Alertness (required for MoMF) AND Improved Init. Destroy any and everything that crosses your path (until some wizard forcecage's you).

Don't you need a caster level to take Obtain Familiar? I think it was even an Arcane caster level. Of course... you could just take Alertness...

I don't think the build is really all that broken, either. You get to Polymorph at will with all the MoMF and Warshaper goodies, but that's about it. You're still less powerful than an optimized caster...
#8

tordak

Nov 19, 2008 15:27:37
Human with the following templates:

Divine Minion
Feral

Ranger 3/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5

I won't even go in to explaining all the ways in which this is broken. Take Obtain Familiar (Hummingbird) for Alertness (required for MoMF) AND Improved Init. Destroy any and everything that crosses your path (until some wizard forcecage's you).

I'm probably being picky here, but you need to have the wild shaping class feature to qualify for MoMF, so unless you get the variant ranger from UA you do not have it as a class feature, even if the divine minion give you fast wild shape. It's probably worded that way to avoid those kind of build. Not that I didin't want to do this myself. And that built is most very (and I mean very) good with 5 level of druid (better yet the variant ranger) instead of straigh ranger and no template.
#9

pithica

Nov 19, 2008 16:04:11
Don't you need a caster level to take Obtain Familiar? I think it was even an Arcane caster level. Of course... you could just take Alertness...

You're right. Mea Culpa.

I don't think the build is really all that broken, either. You get to Polymorph at will with all the MoMF and Warshaper goodies, but that's about it. You're still less powerful than an optimized caster...

Everything is less powerful than an optimized caster. Broken wasn't the right word, though, so again, mea culpa. But Shapeshifting into gargantuan plant etc and busting some serious butt all while extending reach and having fast healing, is pretty severe, at the least.

I'm probably being picky here, but you need to have the wild shaping class feature to qualify for MoMF, so unless you get the variant ranger from UA you do not have it as a class feature, even if the divine minion give you fast wild shape. It's probably worded that way to avoid those kind of build. Not that I didin't want to do this myself. And that built is most very (and I mean very) good with 5 level of druid (better yet the variant ranger) instead of straigh ranger and no template.

Fast Wild Shape (Su): A divine minion can wild shape as an 11th-level druid into one or more animal forms that depend on the deity it serves (divine minions of Set also have a vermin form). The divine minion can use this ability at will, can change form as a free action, and can spend time in animal form indefinitely. They prefer to keep their shapechanging abilities secret so that they can use them to surprise their enemies in combat. Unlike a druid, minions can use this ability even if they're wearing metal armor.

Is it stretching things, to call it a class feature? Yes. Is it RAW? I don't know. Does it compare to Druid 10/Planar Shephard 10 for abuseability? Not even close. So, would I allow it, yes. The op said specifically he didn't want any ability to cast spells, the above was the only way I could think of off the top of my head to accomplish that. Both Wildshape Ranger and Druid would have spells. Not a lot, but they'd be there.
#10

bergtann

Nov 20, 2008 5:34:31
I'm wanting to build a Fighter that can change shape, I don't want anykind of casting and I'm limited to a max of 3 classes, and the dm gets cranky if you pull feats from more than 3-4 books. I was thinking Fighter/Weretouched master/warshaper. Templates are OK but I'm confused about how exactly they work, such as The ecl for hit dice and figuring the number of feats. I'd like to shape into a Bear/dire bear/polar dire bear something like that. I'm wanting to use the dragon husk ability out of Dragon Magic with this build and retain the ability to use my spiked chain. Any books (have to try and stay in 3.5) are fair Game and I have 90% of them, if not my dm will have it. I'd like the character to use combat brute(breaking an enemy's weapon then owning them in the face makes me giggle) I'm new to the board and appreciate any and all suggestions, BTW I'm at work is why I'm rambling lol. The idea of this character is to scare combatants on the field, break weapons, trip enemies trying to get past him, and just pretty much terrorize his threat range. OH and btw I can't do the uber cheese of infinite trips, DM will gay me and make and I swear to god it has happened A flying bird or monster disarm me and take my chain.

Wildshaping Ranger (Unearthened Arcana) 5 -> Master of Many Forms (Complete Adventurer) 10 -> Warshaper (Complete Warrior) 5

Changeling Full-BaB class 4 -> Warshaper 4, then go in the direction you like.

Full-BaB class 6(?) -> Bear Warrior (Complete warrior) -> Note: Difficult to get chain use into this one.

Full-BaB class 8 (Note: Recommend some Ranger and Fighter) -> Primordial (Frostburn)

You should be able to add first some Shapeshifter (Oriental Adventures), then Warshaper to the later builds as well.
#11

khorus

Nov 20, 2008 8:39:05
I completely missed primeval, hmm Torn now between weretouched, and primevel, Wanting to be a giant humanoid beast giving the beat down via chain. ;) Btw thx for the help guys