Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dbay May 08, 2009 0:08:18	The goal: a character who will be pretty good (at least 3/4 as good as an unoptimized specialist) at nearly everything. My plan: bard 5/favoured soul1/Lyric Thamaturge 2/Rogue2/sublime chord1/ Fochlucan lyrist 9+ Takes bardic knack over bardic knowledge, so I get ranks in every skill. Learns master's touch[spell compendium] (now proficient in every weapon), and improvisation[spell compendium] (adds half level to checks, already get half level from bardic knack= almost as good as a maxed out class skill) Lyric thaumaturge is just because I met the prereqs anyways, as melodic casting is something every bard should have, and I need two more levels of bardic casting to meet sublime chord requirements. Rogue is to get evasion, necessary for fochlucan lyrist. Sneak attack and trapfinding are nice bonuses, but I'd be willing to ditch them if someone has a better idea. Sublime chord puts me back on track for near-sorcerer level arcane spellcasting, and fochlucan lyrist+ favoured soul gives me divine casting, focusing on charisma (my best stat). With obtain familiar and planar familiar, I can summon a lantern archon, which has Tongues, and can teach me druidic, a prereq for fochlucan lyrist. So, I can 1)fight with any weapon (including double gnomish spiked bastard sword-chucks-urgoshes), 2)cast 9th level arcane spells and 5th level divine spells, 3)find traps, 4) excel at any skill, 5)wear armour, and 6) be d*** cool about it. The fun part is not letting the other players know what class you are- "so, you're what, a sorcerer?" "no, fool! I'm a cleric." "But clerics cant find traps!" "thats because I'm really a rogue." However, if anyone has any ideas on how to improve swordfighting ability or kill those pesky levels of rogue, or get 9th level divine spells, I'd love to hear it. PS. No edition wars.
#2 mister_crowley May 08, 2009 1:40:20	The goal: a character who will be pretty good (at least 3/4 as good as an unoptimized specialist) at nearly everything. My plan: bard 5/favoured soul1/Lyric Thamaturge 2/Rogue2/sublime chord1/ Fochlucan lyrist 9+ Takes bardic knack over bardic knowledge, so I get ranks in every skill. Learns master's touch[spell compendium] (now proficient in every weapon), and improvisation[spell compendium] (adds half level to checks, already get half level from bardic knack= almost as good as a maxed out class skill) Lyric thaumaturge is just because I met the prereqs anyways, as melodic casting is something every bard should have, and I need two more levels of bardic casting to meet sublime chord requirements. Rogue is to get evasion, necessary for fochlucan lyrist. Sneak attack and trapfinding are nice bonuses, but I'd be willing to ditch them if someone has a better idea. Sublime chord puts me back on track for near-sorcerer level arcane spellcasting, and fochlucan lyrist+ favoured soul gives me divine casting, focusing on charisma (my best stat). With obtain familiar and planar familiar, I can summon a lantern archon, which has Tongues, and can teach me druidic, a prereq for fochlucan lyrist. So, I can 1)fight with any weapon (including double gnomish spiked bastard sword-chucks-urgoshes), 2)cast 9th level arcane spells and 5th level divine spells, 3)find traps, 4) excel at any skill, 5)wear armour, and 6) be d*** cool about it. The fun part is not letting the other players know what class you are- "so, you're what, a sorcerer?" "no, fool! I'm a cleric." "But clerics cant find traps!" "thats because I'm really a rogue." However, if anyone has any ideas on how to improve swordfighting ability or kill those pesky levels of rogue, or get 9th level divine spells, I'd love to hear it. PS. No edition wars. You need to know Druidic for Fochlucan Lyrist, so you'd have to switch the Favored Soul to Druid if you wanted to advance your divine levels.
#3 CantripN May 08, 2009 1:50:42	If he can cheese his way to Druidic, let him. It's not a balance issue (Druid is a better class anyway, after all). I'd try to get into Divine Oracle (Complete Divine) for my "Evasion", though. Either that, or Combat Medic (Heroes of Battle) - you can do either, and not lose casting while at it. Consider these options, though: Cloistered Cleric (Knowledge Devotion, Planning Domain, Undeath Domain) + Persistant Spell + DMM: Persistant Spell Don't forget about Words of the Heart, either - getting +12d6 to every hit is fun, as is getting ~115 Temp. HP.
#4 mister_crowley May 08, 2009 2:18:45	If he can cheese his way to Druidic, let him. It's not a balance issue (Druid is a better class anyway, after all). A druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids, which she learns upon becoming a 1st-level druid. Druidic is a free language for a druid; that is, she knows it in addition to her regular allotment of languages and it doesn’t take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids. Druidic has its own alphabet. How the hell do you cheese that? I'd love to know. It's a balance issue for him since he want's CHA casting synergy with the Favored Soul which he wouldn't get with a Druid. Also cleric spell list>druid spell list. Which since he's really only taking one level of it is all he'd be taking it for anyway.
#5 zendu May 08, 2009 3:12:06	gnome and trivial knowledge will really help those skill checks.
#6 dr_rocktopus May 08, 2009 4:09:36	Look, learning druidic is not a hard thing to do. Just find a druid, and start burning his forest with him tied up. He'll teach you eventually. Then kill him and cast barghest's feast from a scroll. What? Too evil? Find an evil druid, and cast mind-****. So many options. The lantern archon is fine with me, and I'm a pretty stringent GM.
#7 dbay May 08, 2009 16:24:11	Just because its against the druidic code (or whatever) to teach nondruids druidic doesn's mean that a) they are physically impossible of doing it (in fact, in the SRD it says that if they do, they become ex-druids-meaning it can happen) or B) someone who isn't a druid but knows druidic can't teach it to people. In this case, my Lantern Archon with permanent Tongues knows it, and teaches it to me. I spend the skill point, I learn it. I've got RAW, RAI (as I see it), and DM permission to boot. I need the archon anyways to help fight demons, permanent magic circle is handy. Thanks for all the great ideas, people!
#8 ninjarabbit May 08, 2009 17:23:57	Here's a much easier way of achieving your goal kobold cloistered cleric12/divineoracle2/contemplative6 Domains: kobold, trickery, spell (from contemplative), magic or travel (from contemplative), oracle Subsitutions: spontaneous domain (trickery) from PHB II Warrior: divine power plus various buffs Skillmonkey: trapfinding from kobold domain, various rogue-type class skills from kobold and trickery domains, 12 levels of 6 +int modifer skill points, effectively evasion from divine oracle Divine spellcasting: a full 20 levels if it Arcane spell casting: various arcane spells from trickery, spell, and either magic or travel domains. The build is fairly wide open as far as feats go so there's quite a bit of flexibility.
#9 cephid May 09, 2009 20:39:34	Or try something like this: Human (Able Learner) Rogue 1 Trap finding Druid x Contemplative 1 Wildshape removes dependance on physical stats, allowing high int. for skills. Middle aged druid 32point buy Wis: 18 Int: 16 Con: 14 (animal) Dex: 7 (Animal) Str: 7 (animal) Combat: Wildshape + buffs= Melee monster Animal Companion + buffs= Melee monster (tank) Skills:8 maxed Hide + forest fold + camoflage (level 10 all day hide check +33) Move silently + forest fold Search Concentration Survival + mast of the tiger + essence of raptor + wis= Level 10 +28 track by scent Spot + essence of raptor + wis= Level 10 +28 spot Listen+ essence of raptor + wis= Level 10 +28 Listen Mobility: Wildshape All movement types (burrow, fly, climb, swim, earth glide) +10' to each + haste etc (celerity) Find Dissarm traps: Search + rogues trap finding Make Traps: (great with stealth and burrow!) Flame strike (etc.) + meta rod of earth spell Acorn bombs + prair beads of karma + energy resistance Important Arcane spells: Teleport (belt of the wide earth: MIC) Haste, Timestop (celerity domain) Battle field control: e.g. Murderous mist + braces of the entangling blast (blind and entangled) Healing: wand of vigor,lessor If on your solo adventures you are about to get swamped by enemies: 1) Teleport, scry, summon an army, animal growth the lot + companion, return and eat them alive! Can cover 90% of party roles to 90% capacity. Crazy fun character to play.
#10 jameswilliamogle May 09, 2009 23:01:41	A druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids, which she learns upon becoming a 1st-level druid. Druidic is a free language for a druid; that is, she knows it in addition to her regular allotment of languages and it doesn’t take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids. Druidic has its own alphabet. How the hell do you cheese that? I'd love to know. It's a balance issue for him since he want's CHA casting synergy with the Favored Soul which he wouldn't get with a Druid. Also cleric spell list>druid spell list. Which since he's really only taking one level of it is all he'd be taking it for anyway. Binding Naberius from Tome of Magic allows one to pick a certain number of untrained skills in which you have no ranks. So, one picks Speak Knowledge: Druidic. There's also ex druids. Blighters come to mind.
#11 dr_rocktopus May 09, 2009 23:50:33	I generally torture the **** out of a convenient evil druid. You know, for the greater good. In the process, I obviously have to learn druidic so I can pry the confession out of him.
#12 CantripN May 09, 2009 23:53:58	Dominate Person is that much simpler, and not very hard to do.
#13 cephid May 10, 2009 0:23:01	I generally torture the **** out of a convenient evil druid. You know, for the greater good. In the process, I obviously have to learn druidic so I can pry the confession out of him. Being Evil is more fun, more free, and in your case; more honest.;)