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HELP US!!!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
spiderjohny
Jun 22, 2008 22:56:16 Hey guys,
I have a rather large question for you, but I'm hoping you guys can go nuts and come up with some really good ideas! I'm playing in a very conservative campaign. The DM only allows blizzard published materials (all others have to be run by him, with little success so far), no prestege classes and only basic equitment (again only from blizzard sources). I know thats not leaving much room for imagination. Our party consists of a fighter 12/paladin 2 (me), a druid 13, a ranger 13, a barbarian 11, a socceror 14 and a henchman (cleric 7).

In recent sessions we have been getting smashed! We really need to toughen up the melee guys and the ranger. The druid and the socceror are tough enough on their own but the problem is if they are incapacitated (particularly the socceror) we are stuffed!

Withing those limits how can we toughen up the party. The ranger is a gun against his favoured enamy but has a low ac and not many hps, the barbarian and fighter/paladin are tough in melee but strugle against buffs like unholy aura and the like. How can we toughen up the party as a whole, particularly the cannon fodder and the ranger!

Big question I know, and thanks for the help in advance.

Cheers
#2
jondera
Jun 22, 2008 23:14:18 Well, a couple things here:

First, I assume that when you say "Blizzard," you mean WotC.

Second, it would greatly help if we could know what your current builds are - this includes things like feats, skills, current equipment, spells known (for the sorc), etc...

And I'm curious what kinds of strategies you're currently using?
#3
zax
Jun 23, 2008 1:12:17 Combat guys: Get killed. Come back as Warblade/Swordsage

Spellcasters: Choose better spells.
#4
spiderjohny
Jun 23, 2008 10:06:22 thanx for the reply jondera,

I did mean wizards thanx.

I was gona include more info but I was worried bout the post being so big no one would read it!

First the elven Ranger 13: his role is to be the stealthy archer type dude. We have no rogue so he fills the scout type role as well as supporting us boys in the front.

bow specialist
feats: (ranger bonus feates (eg track)),improved initiative, weapon focus comp long bow, undeying bond of soul, improved favoured enemy and iron will.
Skills are pretty standard for ranger (hide, move silent and survival, ect.)
equip: chain shirt of improved move silent, comp long bow with +3 pull and +4 mag, light steal sheild of deflect arrows, and a cloak of elven kind.

I think theres a fair bit of room to move with him.

human Barbarian 11: He is just what a barbarian should be, a damage magnet. He also does big damage himself.

uses a gyth silver great sword.
feats: improved initiative, power attack, cleave, great cleave and weapon focus great sword.
nothing spec in skills
equip: gyth silver great sword, breats plate +2, gloves of dex +2, braces of armour +2, belt of str +4, bear pendent with allows him to regen 1 hp per round, cloak of resistance +2, ring of protection +3, ring of read and comprehend languages.

Recently he has been an npc as my mate has been travelling so the character has admitadly been neglected.

Finally is the 1/2 elven fighter 12 / paladin 2: deal most damage and best bab need to build on cha though to use paladin abilities. the paladin thing is a recent idea to fit the story.

uses a moon blade (this is a mod on the sun blade, longsword treated as a short sword for things like weapon finess but a long sword, +2 / +4 to extra planar creatures and creates moon like glow in 60' instead of the sun blades sun light effect.

feats: improved initiative, weapon focus longsword, weapon spec long sword, weapon finess, improved critical longsword, greater weapon focus long sword, weapon mastery slashing, iron will, greater weapon specialisation long sword, power attack and I am waiting on an item to improve int before taking combat expertise (unless someone comes up with a better idea!)

skills are nothing special

equip: moon blade, mithril breast plate +3, mithril heavy sheild +3, amulet of natural armour +1, cloak of resistance +3, ring of protections +1/+2, gloves of dex +2, mith breast plate +3, belt of ogre str +4 and I am waiting on custom made boots of cha +6 (as I am in desperate need of more cha)

The big weakness atm is magic (as with most fighters). Fear won't be a prob when I make lev 3 paladin and the cha increase should help aswell. Any other ideas to help with magicall effects?

As far as the druid and the sorceror are concerned the only prob with the druid is low hp and a caster level increase and spell resistance could help. The sorceror is great and shouldn't need any help as he is pretty decked out with items and good spell selection, his main roll being a coc/fireball machine; however any suggested tactic changes with him could be useful.

I know this is alot of info to go through guys but your help is very appreciated. I'm not particularly well read yet but I'm trying to learn!

Kepp inmind my DM is very conservative and it has to be WotC published stuff, or ultra conservative for him to allow it!

cheers
#5
Zekarra
Jun 23, 2008 17:57:51 For ranged person, see the SwiftHunter's Handbook. It is a Scout/Ranger build both are base classes no prestige. Scout is out of the Complete Adventurer.

For the Barbarian, I'll say Barbarian 3/Fighter 2/Exotic Weapon Master 3/Frenzied Berserker 10. The EWM and FB are in the Complete Warrior and they are PrC's.

As far as the Paladin ?? got me.

The caster's ?? Alot can be done with them.
#6
spiderjohny
Jun 23, 2008 23:07:13 Thanks for the reply zekarra,

I have looked at scout, but as the character isn't mine i'll have to do a little convincing for the scout.

As far as the barbarian goes I like the build you've given me there, but he's already an 11th level barbarian so it's a lil late for the build.

I'm stuck on the paladin to but i'll keep looking!

The casters are pretty much right. neither of them have to many problem, probably because use frontliners are doing all the real work!

Thanks again mate.

Anymore help would be ausome guys!
#7
jondera
Jun 24, 2008 0:11:04 For your three martial types:

Ranger type:

I agree on the scout bit. Other than that, as long as he's an archer, he can live as an archer. He may also want to look into some Archer PrCs - Arcane Archer (If he's willing to drop a level into a caster class) or Order of the Bow Initiate.

Barbarian:

Hmm... passable, but I highly recommend branching out a bit. Snag some PrC levels - I'm iffy on the FB (they cause their fair share of TPKs...), but the Bear Warrior looks OK - snag 5 levels of that (more than 5 isn't worth it unless you can get all 10). EMW doesn't look good though, since it would involve feat wastage. Having him snag a few levels of Occult Slayer would also help him with his inherent weakness to enchantment/illusion spellcasters.

Fighter/Pally (You)...

Um...

I hate to say this, but have you considered the possible benefits of reincarnation?

Also, get the druid into melee. He's better at it than you. Seriously.
#8
rebel7284
Jun 24, 2008 1:17:21 On barbarian: breastplate and bracers of armor don't stack. Great Cleave sucks unless the whole campaign is spent fighting goblins. Weapon focus isn't that great either. Consider shock trooper and leap attack feats for massive damage. If at all possible, try to convince the DM to let the barbarian retroactively lose fast movement for pounce via Lion Totem barbarian is a good idea too. Fast movement is nice, but boosts to movement are easier to get on a magic item than pounce.

On sorcerer: playing a fireball machine is generally a horrible idea for casters. Knowing fireball as a spell to deal with 100 goblins might not be a horrible idea but all things considered, battlefield control spells and buffs are so much more useful. Consider something like solid fog to immobilize half your opponents or haste to help the fighter types or even glitterdust to at the same time blind a bunch of cannon fodder and expose hiding/invisible spellcasters.
#9
spiderjohny
Jun 24, 2008 1:38:56 thanks guys,

jondera I looked at bear warrior and I don't like it, only because the character himself already has better stats then the bears so i don't see the point (unless i'm miss understanding the class discription). O and i think the scout class is much better then OotBI.
I was actually thinking bout taking a few levels in OS for my own character (fighter/paladin), what do you think about that?

LOL I know what you mean with the "trade in" effect, but the character i'm playing I have kept alive and been playing on and off for about 10 years now. I've had him since second ed! So i'd like to keep him around, that and from the way the campaign is going I have a feeling my character is important, a chosen one if you will.

Thanks to you too rebel. The DM is very unflexible when it comes to retroactivity, unless it is a recent thing that has had little to no effect on game play, so no luck there. Also the guy playing the socceror is pretty clever and does use battle feild controlling spells to some degree but is useually more worried bout saving himself and often doesn't use spells on the group. He likes thing to be big and flashy!

thanks again guys, i'm narrowing things down but a little more help would be great!

cheers
#10
jondera
Jun 24, 2008 2:17:42
thanks guys,

jondera I looked at bear warrior and I don't like it, only because the character himself already has better stats then the bears so i don't see the point (unless i'm miss understanding the class discription).

Actually, the Bear Warrior transformation isn't a standard polymorph/wild shape-esque transformation - instead of replacing your physical ability scores with those of the target form, the bear form stacks on an addition unnamed bonus to Str, dex, and con. The brown bear bonuses (at level five) are +16 Str, +2 Dex, and +8 Con... Which I'd say is fairly significant.
#11
animefunkmaster
Jun 24, 2008 3:18:38 Ranger/Scout is a good option. Barbarian moving into frenzied berserker is also a good choice (wands of grease can control the out of control frenzied berserker). Frostburn offers a unique substitute for a barbarian prestige class: Primeval, check it out. The fighter needs something, if you are waiting to up a stat so you qualify for a feat (combat expertise) then you are in a bad spot. You should try to limit the number of stats you want high... for a fighter/paladin you will want to keep your stats in this relative order (highest priority to lowest): str=con (you decide), Cha, Int=Dex (skills vs lighter armor), wis.

Can the fighter retrain some feats? Weapon focus/specilization/Weapon Mastery are all traps (and iron will is not a big help). It looks like you are sword and board. The following feats you may find interesting:

Improved Shield Bash (PHB)
Improved Trip (PHB) (If combat expertise is a nasty pre req, try nabing wolf totem barbarian 2... but then again... paladin... barbarian)
Shield Charge (CW)
Block Arrows* (HoB)
Shield Slam (CW)
Shock Trooper(CW)
Combat Brute (CW)
Leap Attack (CAd)

This will give you options much more options (Daze/Sunder/Bullrush/Trip) than the previous build and damage (Power Attack based). Playing with alternate class features will help this out a lot also.

So a possible build would be:

1/2 Elf (If you can take a level in half elf paragon, might aswell nab an extra feat)

Fighter10/Wolf Totem+ Other Class Variant ex-Barbarian 2/Paladin 2
((If you can put the lion spiritual totem barbarian variant from Complete Champion, over the fast movement, that would be best... but then... you have replaced every class ability the barbarian 2 gives you. The barbarian variants above are in Unearthed Arcana))

Full plate+ Moon blade + Heavy Steel Shield
Alt Weapon: Composite Bow

Feats: (Assuming this is a laundry list and not a progression)
1: Power Attack
fighter 1:Improved Shield Bash
fighter 2:Improved Bullrush
3: Improved Sunder
fighter 4: Shield Charge
6: Block Arrows*
fighter 6: Shield Slam
fighter 8: Shock Trooper**
9: Combat Brute**
fighter 10: Leap Attack**
12: Improved Shield Bash* (Sword and fist version if allowed)
Other Variant Barbarian 2: Rapid Shot (No real reason except that it is free)
Wolf Totem Barbarian: Improved Trip
*free to pick anything else
**The Barbarian should look at these feats as well
Note: If the sword and fist Improved Shield bash flies, you might want to nab robilars gambit and never worry about full rounds again.

You also get a free favored enemy, if your dm is like mine, go with human.

I hope any of that helps
#12
spiderjohny
Jun 24, 2008 3:47:46 Thanks heeps for the help so far guys,

jondera thanks for clearing up the bear warrior for me. Although he being used as an npc for the moment i'll still have to run it by my mate but i think he'll be keen.

animefunkmaster, thanks heeps for the detail dude, looks like you put a bit of time into it! Unfortunately my dm won't let me do a rebuild that detailed, no big feat changes and certainly no level changes. Unfortunately, When we did the swap from 2nd ed we only had access to the core rule books and none of us had any experience with 3rd ed at all, so I just did a swap aimed at boosting the bab, ac and damage, silly I know, but I was uneducated. Now that I have access to a much bigger range of books, have become better read and have found forums like this, I have realised the error of my ways. Like i eluded to in an earlier post I really don't want to dump this character as I have been playing with him for quite a while. I'll keep playing him even if he is usless but I really hope there is a way to bring him round!

For furture posts I can't change him at all, it has to be a build on what he is already:

1/2 elf fighter 12 / paladin 2
Feats: greater weapong spec (+ all prereqs), wpn mastery slashing, iron will, power attack, wpn finess, graceful edge and improved initiative
equip is the moonbalde (mod on the sun blade to effect evil outsiders), breast plate +3, mith sheild +3 cloak of resistance +3, rings of protection +1/+2, gloves of dex +2, amulet of natural armour +1, belt of str +4.

What I'm after guys is a build from here. A few items that might help with spell resistance, good items to buff up will save a bit, and some items to bypass damage reduction if possible, prestege classes that I can take from here, or feats that might help.

I have been looking at occult slayers, is this a good idea? also I'm looking at infuse warriors, although I don't think my dm will let me take this class, just incase though are there any varriants that will help me, with the last paragraph in mind.

thanks again guys you've given me some good stuff to think about!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 spiderjohny Jun 22, 2008 22:56:16	Hey guys, I have a rather large question for you, but I'm hoping you guys can go nuts and come up with some really good ideas! I'm playing in a very conservative campaign. The DM only allows blizzard published materials (all others have to be run by him, with little success so far), no prestege classes and only basic equitment (again only from blizzard sources). I know thats not leaving much room for imagination. Our party consists of a fighter 12/paladin 2 (me), a druid 13, a ranger 13, a barbarian 11, a socceror 14 and a henchman (cleric 7). In recent sessions we have been getting smashed! We really need to toughen up the melee guys and the ranger. The druid and the socceror are tough enough on their own but the problem is if they are incapacitated (particularly the socceror) we are stuffed! Withing those limits how can we toughen up the party. The ranger is a gun against his favoured enamy but has a low ac and not many hps, the barbarian and fighter/paladin are tough in melee but strugle against buffs like unholy aura and the like. How can we toughen up the party as a whole, particularly the cannon fodder and the ranger! Big question I know, and thanks for the help in advance. Cheers
#2 jondera Jun 22, 2008 23:14:18	Well, a couple things here: First, I assume that when you say "Blizzard," you mean WotC. Second, it would greatly help if we could know what your current builds are - this includes things like feats, skills, current equipment, spells known (for the sorc), etc... And I'm curious what kinds of strategies you're currently using?
#3 zax Jun 23, 2008 1:12:17	Combat guys: Get killed. Come back as Warblade/Swordsage Spellcasters: Choose better spells.
#4 spiderjohny Jun 23, 2008 10:06:22	thanx for the reply jondera, I did mean wizards thanx. I was gona include more info but I was worried bout the post being so big no one would read it! First the elven Ranger 13: his role is to be the stealthy archer type dude. We have no rogue so he fills the scout type role as well as supporting us boys in the front. bow specialist feats: (ranger bonus feates (eg track)),improved initiative, weapon focus comp long bow, undeying bond of soul, improved favoured enemy and iron will. Skills are pretty standard for ranger (hide, move silent and survival, ect.) equip: chain shirt of improved move silent, comp long bow with +3 pull and +4 mag, light steal sheild of deflect arrows, and a cloak of elven kind. I think theres a fair bit of room to move with him. human Barbarian 11: He is just what a barbarian should be, a damage magnet. He also does big damage himself. uses a gyth silver great sword. feats: improved initiative, power attack, cleave, great cleave and weapon focus great sword. nothing spec in skills equip: gyth silver great sword, breats plate +2, gloves of dex +2, braces of armour +2, belt of str +4, bear pendent with allows him to regen 1 hp per round, cloak of resistance +2, ring of protection +3, ring of read and comprehend languages. Recently he has been an npc as my mate has been travelling so the character has admitadly been neglected. Finally is the 1/2 elven fighter 12 / paladin 2: deal most damage and best bab need to build on cha though to use paladin abilities. the paladin thing is a recent idea to fit the story. uses a moon blade (this is a mod on the sun blade, longsword treated as a short sword for things like weapon finess but a long sword, +2 / +4 to extra planar creatures and creates moon like glow in 60' instead of the sun blades sun light effect. feats: improved initiative, weapon focus longsword, weapon spec long sword, weapon finess, improved critical longsword, greater weapon focus long sword, weapon mastery slashing, iron will, greater weapon specialisation long sword, power attack and I am waiting on an item to improve int before taking combat expertise (unless someone comes up with a better idea!) skills are nothing special equip: moon blade, mithril breast plate +3, mithril heavy sheild +3, amulet of natural armour +1, cloak of resistance +3, ring of protections +1/+2, gloves of dex +2, mith breast plate +3, belt of ogre str +4 and I am waiting on custom made boots of cha +6 (as I am in desperate need of more cha) The big weakness atm is magic (as with most fighters). Fear won't be a prob when I make lev 3 paladin and the cha increase should help aswell. Any other ideas to help with magicall effects? As far as the druid and the sorceror are concerned the only prob with the druid is low hp and a caster level increase and spell resistance could help. The sorceror is great and shouldn't need any help as he is pretty decked out with items and good spell selection, his main roll being a coc/fireball machine; however any suggested tactic changes with him could be useful. I know this is alot of info to go through guys but your help is very appreciated. I'm not particularly well read yet but I'm trying to learn! Kepp inmind my DM is very conservative and it has to be WotC published stuff, or ultra conservative for him to allow it! cheers
#5 Zekarra Jun 23, 2008 17:57:51	For ranged person, see the SwiftHunter's Handbook. It is a Scout/Ranger build both are base classes no prestige. Scout is out of the Complete Adventurer. For the Barbarian, I'll say Barbarian 3/Fighter 2/Exotic Weapon Master 3/Frenzied Berserker 10. The EWM and FB are in the Complete Warrior and they are PrC's. As far as the Paladin ?? got me. The caster's ?? Alot can be done with them.
#6 spiderjohny Jun 23, 2008 23:07:13	Thanks for the reply zekarra, I have looked at scout, but as the character isn't mine i'll have to do a little convincing for the scout. As far as the barbarian goes I like the build you've given me there, but he's already an 11th level barbarian so it's a lil late for the build. I'm stuck on the paladin to but i'll keep looking! The casters are pretty much right. neither of them have to many problem, probably because use frontliners are doing all the real work! Thanks again mate. Anymore help would be ausome guys!
#7 jondera Jun 24, 2008 0:11:04	For your three martial types: Ranger type: I agree on the scout bit. Other than that, as long as he's an archer, he can live as an archer. He may also want to look into some Archer PrCs - Arcane Archer (If he's willing to drop a level into a caster class) or Order of the Bow Initiate. Barbarian: Hmm... passable, but I highly recommend branching out a bit. Snag some PrC levels - I'm iffy on the FB (they cause their fair share of TPKs...), but the Bear Warrior looks OK - snag 5 levels of that (more than 5 isn't worth it unless you can get all 10). EMW doesn't look good though, since it would involve feat wastage. Having him snag a few levels of Occult Slayer would also help him with his inherent weakness to enchantment/illusion spellcasters. Fighter/Pally (You)... Um... I hate to say this, but have you considered the possible benefits of reincarnation? Also, get the druid into melee. He's better at it than you. Seriously.
#8 rebel7284 Jun 24, 2008 1:17:21	On barbarian: breastplate and bracers of armor don't stack. Great Cleave sucks unless the whole campaign is spent fighting goblins. Weapon focus isn't that great either. Consider shock trooper and leap attack feats for massive damage. If at all possible, try to convince the DM to let the barbarian retroactively lose fast movement for pounce via Lion Totem barbarian is a good idea too. Fast movement is nice, but boosts to movement are easier to get on a magic item than pounce. On sorcerer: playing a fireball machine is generally a horrible idea for casters. Knowing fireball as a spell to deal with 100 goblins might not be a horrible idea but all things considered, battlefield control spells and buffs are so much more useful. Consider something like solid fog to immobilize half your opponents or haste to help the fighter types or even glitterdust to at the same time blind a bunch of cannon fodder and expose hiding/invisible spellcasters.
#9 spiderjohny Jun 24, 2008 1:38:56	thanks guys, jondera I looked at bear warrior and I don't like it, only because the character himself already has better stats then the bears so i don't see the point (unless i'm miss understanding the class discription). O and i think the scout class is much better then OotBI. I was actually thinking bout taking a few levels in OS for my own character (fighter/paladin), what do you think about that? LOL I know what you mean with the "trade in" effect, but the character i'm playing I have kept alive and been playing on and off for about 10 years now. I've had him since second ed! So i'd like to keep him around, that and from the way the campaign is going I have a feeling my character is important, a chosen one if you will. Thanks to you too rebel. The DM is very unflexible when it comes to retroactivity, unless it is a recent thing that has had little to no effect on game play, so no luck there. Also the guy playing the socceror is pretty clever and does use battle feild controlling spells to some degree but is useually more worried bout saving himself and often doesn't use spells on the group. He likes thing to be big and flashy! thanks again guys, i'm narrowing things down but a little more help would be great! cheers
#10 jondera Jun 24, 2008 2:17:42	thanks guys, jondera I looked at bear warrior and I don't like it, only because the character himself already has better stats then the bears so i don't see the point (unless i'm miss understanding the class discription). Actually, the Bear Warrior transformation isn't a standard polymorph/wild shape-esque transformation - instead of replacing your physical ability scores with those of the target form, the bear form stacks on an addition unnamed bonus to Str, dex, and con. The brown bear bonuses (at level five) are +16 Str, +2 Dex, and +8 Con... Which I'd say is fairly significant.
#11 animefunkmaster Jun 24, 2008 3:18:38	Ranger/Scout is a good option. Barbarian moving into frenzied berserker is also a good choice (wands of grease can control the out of control frenzied berserker). Frostburn offers a unique substitute for a barbarian prestige class: Primeval, check it out. The fighter needs something, if you are waiting to up a stat so you qualify for a feat (combat expertise) then you are in a bad spot. You should try to limit the number of stats you want high... for a fighter/paladin you will want to keep your stats in this relative order (highest priority to lowest): str=con (you decide), Cha, Int=Dex (skills vs lighter armor), wis. Can the fighter retrain some feats? Weapon focus/specilization/Weapon Mastery are all traps (and iron will is not a big help). It looks like you are sword and board. The following feats you may find interesting: Improved Shield Bash (PHB) Improved Trip (PHB) (If combat expertise is a nasty pre req, try nabing wolf totem barbarian 2... but then again... paladin... barbarian) Shield Charge (CW) Block Arrows* (HoB) Shield Slam (CW) Shock Trooper(CW) Combat Brute (CW) Leap Attack (CAd) This will give you options much more options (Daze/Sunder/Bullrush/Trip) than the previous build and damage (Power Attack based). Playing with alternate class features will help this out a lot also. So a possible build would be: 1/2 Elf (If you can take a level in half elf paragon, might aswell nab an extra feat) Fighter10/Wolf Totem+ Other Class Variant ex-Barbarian 2/Paladin 2 ((If you can put the lion spiritual totem barbarian variant from Complete Champion, over the fast movement, that would be best... but then... you have replaced every class ability the barbarian 2 gives you. The barbarian variants above are in Unearthed Arcana)) Full plate+ Moon blade + Heavy Steel Shield Alt Weapon: Composite Bow Feats: (Assuming this is a laundry list and not a progression) 1: Power Attack fighter 1:Improved Shield Bash fighter 2:Improved Bullrush 3: Improved Sunder fighter 4: Shield Charge 6: Block Arrows* fighter 6: Shield Slam fighter 8: Shock Trooper 9: Combat Brute fighter 10: Leap Attack** 12: Improved Shield Bash* (Sword and fist version if allowed) Other Variant Barbarian 2: Rapid Shot (No real reason except that it is free) Wolf Totem Barbarian: Improved Trip free to pick anything else *The Barbarian should look at these feats as well Note: If the sword and fist Improved Shield bash flies, you might want to nab robilars gambit and never worry about full rounds again. You also get a free favored enemy, if your dm is like mine, go with human. I hope any of that helps
#12 spiderjohny Jun 24, 2008 3:47:46	Thanks heeps for the help so far guys, jondera thanks for clearing up the bear warrior for me. Although he being used as an npc for the moment i'll still have to run it by my mate but i think he'll be keen. animefunkmaster, thanks heeps for the detail dude, looks like you put a bit of time into it! Unfortunately my dm won't let me do a rebuild that detailed, no big feat changes and certainly no level changes. Unfortunately, When we did the swap from 2nd ed we only had access to the core rule books and none of us had any experience with 3rd ed at all, so I just did a swap aimed at boosting the bab, ac and damage, silly I know, but I was uneducated. Now that I have access to a much bigger range of books, have become better read and have found forums like this, I have realised the error of my ways. Like i eluded to in an earlier post I really don't want to dump this character as I have been playing with him for quite a while. I'll keep playing him even if he is usless but I really hope there is a way to bring him round! For furture posts I can't change him at all, it has to be a build on what he is already: 1/2 elf fighter 12 / paladin 2 Feats: greater weapong spec (+ all prereqs), wpn mastery slashing, iron will, power attack, wpn finess, graceful edge and improved initiative equip is the moonbalde (mod on the sun blade to effect evil outsiders), breast plate +3, mith sheild +3 cloak of resistance +3, rings of protection +1/+2, gloves of dex +2, amulet of natural armour +1, belt of str +4. What I'm after guys is a build from here. A few items that might help with spell resistance, good items to buff up will save a bit, and some items to bypass damage reduction if possible, prestege classes that I can take from here, or feats that might help. I have been looking at occult slayers, is this a good idea? also I'm looking at infuse warriors, although I don't think my dm will let me take this class, just incase though are there any varriants that will help me, with the last paragraph in mind. thanks again guys you've given me some good stuff to think about!