Help w/ Epic Dragon PC - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help w/ Epic Dragon PC

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
EricaG
Jan 06, 2009 21:12:41 Hi. To start, all resources are allowed, but we have almost no access to Dragon Mag. (oh, and no flaws)

My DM is continuing an Eberon campaign and we're jumping into epic with both feet by gaining levels overnight and rebuilding our characters. We're a group of three (plus two occasional players) fighting against someone with several dragon orbs and the entire world is a post-apocalyptical warzone. The other two are a drunken master and an army via leadership. I want to optimize because after watching the other two in last week's game (I was still working on my pc) I don't think I'm optimized to do enough damage and not die quickly.

I've been using an item familiar - swordbow of force, doing a little sneaky/sniper thing previously and i want to keep that flavor. the dm wants it to be a psionic weapon since dragons can't use weapons and i get that for free, we're treating it mechanically as a normal weapon that i can't lose. I also have a nat armor amulet +4 (i have to keep) and 200,000g. I'm starting with stats 15, 14, 14, 12, 11, 10; 20 HD of sapphire dragon; 8 lvls to play around with.

My origional build plan was hidecarved dragon 5/ninja 2/occult slayer 1 to improve ac, dr, sr, and immunities with a little extra damage and using spells like scintalating scales and haste mostly. MAD isn't really a problem with dragon ability mods but i couldn't really get the feats i needed.

I'd love to know what other ideas you can give me, and thanks in advance.
#2
natenate
Jan 07, 2009 3:29:10 Nomad manifesting is nothing to disregard, especially if you can gain +8 levels of Slayer from the SRD or Illithid Slayer from the XPH to have 7th level powers and some nice immunities. Be sure to take Practiced Manifester from Complete Psionic. Get feats from the Draconomicon such as Improved Speed, Awaken Spell Resistance, Large and In Charge, and Recover Breath. Take Improved Maneuverability with Improved Flight from Races of the Wild and your natural maneuverability will be at Good. Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon is also nice, since foes who are both Entangled and Panicked by your breath attack will end up provoking AoOs while trying to flee.
#3
Grumman
Jan 07, 2009 4:45:15 What ECL is the party? Could you play as a Supermount to make your dragon even better?
#4
EricaG
Jan 07, 2009 21:17:50 @NateNate: thanks for the feat suggestions, i definately need to improve my flight. I don't think slayer will work for me though because my dm isn't doing a psionic campaign, so the special stuff it gets won't do much for me.

@Grumman: i have a gut reaction against the idea of being someone's mount. can you tell me why i might want that?
#5
Grumman
Jan 07, 2009 22:45:40
@Grumman: i have a gut reaction against the idea of being someone's mount. can you tell me why i might want that?

As far as the flavour of the character goes, you would not be their mount, they would be your minion, whose magic is being used to make you stronger. It would be more like the relationship between Sauron and the One Ring than a horse and its rider.
#6
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Jan 07, 2009 23:50:08 Perhaps you don't want to, but supermounting an epic dragon is extremely fun. Considering your character also is now going into epic (and you might rebuild your whole class level path) this just adds icing to an already optimized cake. See build #4 at the link in my sig
#7
kosh365
Jan 08, 2009 0:51:06 Hmm interesting problem, but it should be very fun to actually play, currently playing a gestalt Cleric/Silver Dragon in an Age of Worms game that was short on players.

On toward the problem, if you're looking for more feats, I'd recomend you work in having your character spend some time in the Otyugh Hole, from Comp. Scoundrel, which will net you Iron Will as a bonus feat. This will help you get into the Hidecarved Dragon PrC a little faster. You might also want to consider a level of monk and Shadowdancer (DMG) over ninja, to net you both a sizable increase to your AC, (which as a PC dragon should be significant) and Hide in Plain Sight. This is probably preferable given that alot of epic monsters tend to have True Seeing as if it was on sale somewhere. More levels of monk might help with feat deficiency. If your prefer the trap finding feature of ninja, and enjoy using that Swordbow more as a ranged weapon, try even going with Scout (also in Comp. Adventurer), which for the number of levels you pointed out will net you the same bonus to damage, but without the limit of times per day and superior skill point generation over Ninja.

Now if you have a feat to spare, Entangling Exhalation is a KILLER for anything with a breath weapon--see the New Dragonfire Adept Handbook to see for yourself why it is so. I'd have to disagree with Awaken Resistance, since it only nets a +2 SR increase onto your existing 21, you could just buy a Daazzix's Vest from the DMG2, for 25k gp to give you +5 instead. Other than that NateNate's feat choices are solid and with the levels of scout, the boosted mobility will let you get flyby skirmish attacks all over the place.

My memory is a little fuzzy if gem dragons have actual sorcerer levels, now if they do, be sure to pick up the much vaunted "Wings of Cover" and "Wings of Flurry" spells from Races of the Dragon, asap! On top of that "Ruin Delver's Fortune" in the Spell Compendium on top of everything will help you resist all those cracked out epic powers.

In terms of equipment, having a Belt of Magnificence (Miniatures Handbook) of any grade, with some tomes on top should help shore up that stat array. Adding in racial adjustments, and you should have stats that little can sneeze at. Be sure to note that the Draconomicon clearly delineates in one of it's sidebars how and what sorts of magic items a dragon can wear.
#8
Wyvernhand
Jan 08, 2009 2:12:42 I'd suggest at LEAST 1-2 levels of any ToB class, probably Swordsage or Warblade. Having 20 HD already beneath you lands your 1st level at ECL21 with an IL of 11, netting you 6th level maneuvers. Granted, you'd only get a 1st level stance on your first level, and you'd still have to satisfy prereqs (which could be done with cheap items?), but having Poucing Charge and Dancing Mongoose would be pretty strong for a dragon, among other things.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 EricaG Jan 06, 2009 21:12:41	Hi. To start, all resources are allowed, but we have almost no access to Dragon Mag. (oh, and no flaws) My DM is continuing an Eberon campaign and we're jumping into epic with both feet by gaining levels overnight and rebuilding our characters. We're a group of three (plus two occasional players) fighting against someone with several dragon orbs and the entire world is a post-apocalyptical warzone. The other two are a drunken master and an army via leadership. I want to optimize because after watching the other two in last week's game (I was still working on my pc) I don't think I'm optimized to do enough damage and not die quickly. I've been using an item familiar - swordbow of force, doing a little sneaky/sniper thing previously and i want to keep that flavor. the dm wants it to be a psionic weapon since dragons can't use weapons and i get that for free, we're treating it mechanically as a normal weapon that i can't lose. I also have a nat armor amulet +4 (i have to keep) and 200,000g. I'm starting with stats 15, 14, 14, 12, 11, 10; 20 HD of sapphire dragon; 8 lvls to play around with. My origional build plan was hidecarved dragon 5/ninja 2/occult slayer 1 to improve ac, dr, sr, and immunities with a little extra damage and using spells like scintalating scales and haste mostly. MAD isn't really a problem with dragon ability mods but i couldn't really get the feats i needed. I'd love to know what other ideas you can give me, and thanks in advance.
#2 natenate Jan 07, 2009 3:29:10	Nomad manifesting is nothing to disregard, especially if you can gain +8 levels of Slayer from the SRD or Illithid Slayer from the XPH to have 7th level powers and some nice immunities. Be sure to take Practiced Manifester from Complete Psionic. Get feats from the Draconomicon such as Improved Speed, Awaken Spell Resistance, Large and In Charge, and Recover Breath. Take Improved Maneuverability with Improved Flight from Races of the Wild and your natural maneuverability will be at Good. Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon is also nice, since foes who are both Entangled and Panicked by your breath attack will end up provoking AoOs while trying to flee.
#3 Grumman Jan 07, 2009 4:45:15	What ECL is the party? Could you play as a Supermount to make your dragon even better?
#4 EricaG Jan 07, 2009 21:17:50	@NateNate: thanks for the feat suggestions, i definately need to improve my flight. I don't think slayer will work for me though because my dm isn't doing a psionic campaign, so the special stuff it gets won't do much for me. @Grumman: i have a gut reaction against the idea of being someone's mount. can you tell me why i might want that?
#5 Grumman Jan 07, 2009 22:45:40	@Grumman: i have a gut reaction against the idea of being someone's mount. can you tell me why i might want that? As far as the flavour of the character goes, you would not be their mount, they would be your minion, whose magic is being used to make you stronger. It would be more like the relationship between Sauron and the One Ring than a horse and its rider.
#6 PlzBreakMyCampaign Jan 07, 2009 23:50:08	Perhaps you don't want to, but supermounting an epic dragon is extremely fun. Considering your character also is now going into epic (and you might rebuild your whole class level path) this just adds icing to an already optimized cake. See build #4 at the link in my sig
#7 kosh365 Jan 08, 2009 0:51:06	Hmm interesting problem, but it should be very fun to actually play, currently playing a gestalt Cleric/Silver Dragon in an Age of Worms game that was short on players. On toward the problem, if you're looking for more feats, I'd recomend you work in having your character spend some time in the Otyugh Hole, from Comp. Scoundrel, which will net you Iron Will as a bonus feat. This will help you get into the Hidecarved Dragon PrC a little faster. You might also want to consider a level of monk and Shadowdancer (DMG) over ninja, to net you both a sizable increase to your AC, (which as a PC dragon should be significant) and Hide in Plain Sight. This is probably preferable given that alot of epic monsters tend to have True Seeing as if it was on sale somewhere. More levels of monk might help with feat deficiency. If your prefer the trap finding feature of ninja, and enjoy using that Swordbow more as a ranged weapon, try even going with Scout (also in Comp. Adventurer), which for the number of levels you pointed out will net you the same bonus to damage, but without the limit of times per day and superior skill point generation over Ninja. Now if you have a feat to spare, Entangling Exhalation is a KILLER for anything with a breath weapon--see the New Dragonfire Adept Handbook to see for yourself why it is so. I'd have to disagree with Awaken Resistance, since it only nets a +2 SR increase onto your existing 21, you could just buy a Daazzix's Vest from the DMG2, for 25k gp to give you +5 instead. Other than that NateNate's feat choices are solid and with the levels of scout, the boosted mobility will let you get flyby skirmish attacks all over the place. My memory is a little fuzzy if gem dragons have actual sorcerer levels, now if they do, be sure to pick up the much vaunted "Wings of Cover" and "Wings of Flurry" spells from Races of the Dragon, asap! On top of that "Ruin Delver's Fortune" in the Spell Compendium on top of everything will help you resist all those cracked out epic powers. In terms of equipment, having a Belt of Magnificence (Miniatures Handbook) of any grade, with some tomes on top should help shore up that stat array. Adding in racial adjustments, and you should have stats that little can sneeze at. Be sure to note that the Draconomicon clearly delineates in one of it's sidebars how and what sorts of magic items a dragon can wear.
#8 Wyvernhand Jan 08, 2009 2:12:42	I'd suggest at LEAST 1-2 levels of any ToB class, probably Swordsage or Warblade. Having 20 HD already beneath you lands your 1st level at ECL21 with an IL of 11, netting you 6th level maneuvers. Granted, you'd only get a 1st level stance on your first level, and you'd still have to satisfy prereqs (which could be done with cheap items?), but having Poucing Charge and Dancing Mongoose would be pretty strong for a dragon, among other things.