My group is running a single campaign for lv 20 characters, and the DM wants everyone to make the strongest they can. I have a hunch he is planning on making these characters enemies in future campaigns when we use our main PC's, but not sure as of yet.
Anyway, i wanted to do a Conjuration wizard. I havnt made it to 20 yet as any class, as im still somewhat new-ish to dnd. Could you guys help me out with this? Wanted to specialize in summoning related feats/skills but im not sure the best way to go about it.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me some help here.
What books are available to you?
Unearthed Arcana has some variants conjurers can take. They're also freely available online.
You should poke around the Summoning Handbook for ideas on feats and prestige classes.
I'll look into that summoning handbook, thanks for the link. Some good reading for downtime at work
Hello, new to the boards! Had something i was hoping you guys could help me out with.
My group is running a single campaign for lv 20 characters, and the DM wants everyone to make the strongest they can. I have a hunch he is planning on making these characters enemies in future campaigns when we use our main PC's, but not sure as of yet.
Anyway, i wanted to do a Conjuration wizard. I havnt made it to 20 yet as any class, as im still somewhat new-ish to dnd. Could you guys help me out with this? Wanted to specialize in summoning related feats/skills but im not sure the best way to go about it.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me some help here.
Just a fair warning: It's pretty easy to get two out of three bold points. Getting all three? That's a problem.
Strongest wizard? That's what a lot of the reading will help you accomplish, but the character will not be easy to build or to run.
New-player-friendly wizard? Doable, but tends to balk against high-CR challenges.
Strongest but newbie-friendly? Other spellcasters might work, but see point 1.
Here's an example of what level 20 wizard combat looks like before you get into spatbooks. I'd like to emphasize that the guy running the wizard, while not new to D&D, was not at all familiar with wizards, and just threw that together from what looked good in the core books.
With that out of the way, generally speaking, summoning takes two forms: "summoning" (using Conjuration (Summoning) spells, plus a few one-shot non-"summoning" effects like Gate), and "binding" (using the Planar Binding style spells to get long-term powerful allies). They build totally differently (the former tends to rely on augmentation effects while the latter works well with prepared, cautious, ritual-based caster level boosts), and work differently in combat (the former is very slow to set up but builds momentum quickly once it gets going, and can tailor its summons to the battle at hand, but requires a lot of prep from you (the player) to run smoothly, while the latter basically gives you powerful allies to fight by proxy).
There are new-player-favored alternatives to wizard in both cases - for instance, I'm a huge fan of the shaper (basically, the psionic conjurer), since everything you need for summoning can be found in one place - but to work within the wizard paradigm, be prepared to do a lot of reading yourself.
Rasaro: If you're going to be a summoner, you will need action advantage, as summoning is a slow process. Pick up spells that slow and halt the opposition; Cloudkill, Black Tentacles, Sleet Storm, Stinking Cloud, (PHB2 now) Vertigo Field, Legion of Sentinels, and so on. If you're specializing in the Conjuration school, then I would suggest you ditch Evocation and Enchantment. You can get Forcecage from the Greater Shadow Evocation spell, and aside from that Evocation doesn't offer you much. Enchantment will be hard to let go, but I think you can summon/bind some critters with SLAs (or fantastic diplomacy checks) that can get around that.
I happen to be playing a conjuration focused wizard right now. I'll post my snapshot of level 20 goals for you. He is specced out for standard WBL and 32 PB. In real play we have way less money than standard, we rolled stats, and are level 4. I won't bore you with skills I picked, but you will have a lot.
I chose grey elf, but a solid case can be made for human. Levels 1-4 have been brutal and I've mostly been a crappy archer with 10AC and just got my 15th hit point. You get the benefit of skipping all that which will make all the difference. You can probably pick a better familiar, but I know the DM has a softspot for dragons, and expect that to have hidden benefits. You can probably also find better items than what I picked, I'm bad at that aspect. Also, technically a focused specialist is less powerful than a normal specialist, and a non-specialist is more powerful than a specialist. I didn't care and can still bend most encounters over my knee.
I strongly recomend writing down full stat blocks for common summons. Nothing bogs the game down more than you deciding to summon something, but first needing to write its stats down.
I would strongly not recomend a conjuration wizard 20 to a new player. Its very powerful, but very complicated.
Books uses: Unearthed Arcana, Monster Manual, Dungeon Masters Guide, Players Handbook, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Draconomicon.
Level 20 Gray Elf Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 9/Master Spec 6
HP – 114
AC – 10 + 4 Armor + 6 Shield + 5 Deflection + 5 Natural = 30
Fort - +6 + 4 Con + 5 Resist = 15
Ref - +6 + 0 Dex + 5 Resist = 11
Will - +14 + 0 Wis + 5 Resist = 19
Immune: Sleep, “All spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts”, Mind affecting spells, as well as divination, and Scrying.
Save Bonuses: +2 vs. Enchantment
BAB - +8
Str - 10 = 10 + 0
Dex - 10 = 10 + 0
Con - 12 + 6 = 18 +4
Int - 24 +6 = 30 + 10
Wis - 10 = 10 + 0
Cha - 16 + 6 = 22 + 6
Abilities
Rapid Summoning – Summon Monster Spells are a standard Action. No familiar. variant.
Enhanced Summoning – No Scribe Scroll, instead Augmented Summoning. variant.
focused specialist - variant.extra spells give up a school.
Deceptive Summons – When summoning an evil aligned creature, make a bluff check free action. If successful, the duration is doubled. If I fail by 5 or more it breaks free. They also gain +2 bonus to weapon damage, +2 HP per HD, +2 Will, and my effective CL for dispelling is +2.
Fiendish Legion – Summon Monster summons an additional evil creature.
Deceitful Bargaining – when I planar bind something, I get a bluff check. If I win, it takes -5 to charisma checks. If I fail it gets a new save vs. my spell to break free.
Improved Calling – HD limit for planar binding is increased by +2
Safe Summoning – Can dismiss any summoned creature as an immediate action instead of standard.
Conjuration Esoterica – Creatures I summon have +CL in HP.
- I get +5 CL when resisting dispels on my conjurations
Summon Elemental – As long as I have a 4th level summon spell available, can summon a small air/earth/fire/water elemental within 30ft (can’t go further). duration is 1 round per level of highest level spell I have. Only get 1 at a time. If I have a 6th level it is medium elemental. If I have 8th, it is large.
Spell Linked Familiar – I can give my familiar 4 level 0, 3 level 1, and 2 level 2 spells to cast each morning. It has ½ My caster level as its CL. It doesn’t need somatic, material or verbal components. It can’t do spells with GP or XP costs.
Feats
1 – Spell Focus Conjuration
W1 – Augment Summoning
SPEC 1 – Skill Focus Spellcraft
3 – Obtain Familiar
6 – Spell Penetration
M3 – Skill Focus Bluff
9- Summon Elemental
12 - Dragon Familiar – Wyrmling Silver Dragon Familiar
15 - Spell Linked Familiar
SPEC3 – Greater Spell Focus
18 – G spell Penetration
Also get alertness from the familiar.
Spells (Forbidden – Enchantment, Evocation, Necromancy,
CL 19, 20 for conjuration
+4 CL to overcome SR
+1 CL for Conjuration (summoning) spells
Summon Monster III – Mandatory Take
Spells DC +2 for Conjuration Prepared Always On 3 Per level must be Conj
Level 0 20 (7/day 3 are conj)
Acid splash X3
Detect Magic
Open Close
Mage Hand
Mending
Ghost Sound
Detect Poison
Read Magic
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation
Message
Open/Close
Level 1 21 (10/day 3 are conj)
Alarm
Grease
Mage Armor
Mount
Obscuring Mist X3
Unseen Servant
Identify
Feather Fall
Disguise Self
Reduce Person
Level 2 22 (10/day 3 are conj)
Summon Monster II X 3
Alter Self X3
Rope Trick
Resist Energy X3
Level 3 23 (9/day 3 are conj)
Dispel Magic X3
Magic Circle
Summon Monster III
Magic Weapon Greater X3
Stinking Cloud X3
Level 4 24 (9/day 3 are conj)
Dimensional Anchor
Dimension Door X3
Invis Greater X 3
Stone Shape X3
Level 5 25 (9/day 3 are conj)
Lesser Planar Binding
Dismissal
Summon Monster V
Teleport X3
Wall of Stone X3
Level 6 26 (9/day 3 are conj)
Dispel Magic Greater X 2
Planar Binding
Acid Fog X3
Mages Lucubration X4
Level 7 27 (8/day 3 are conj)
Plane Shift
Heal
Scrying Greater
Summon Monster VII X5
Statue
Level 8 28 (7/day 3 are conj)
Greater Planar Binding
Shadow Evocation, Greater X3
Polymorph Any Object
Summon Monster VIIIX2
Mind Blank
Discern Location
Level 9 29 (7/day 3 are conj)
Gate
Summon Monster IX X3
Time Stop X2
Wish
Shapechange
Wyrmling Silver Dragon
HP - 77
AC – 10 + 10 Natural + 1Size +4 armor = 25
Speed 40ft, fly 100. Cloudwalking
Fort - 6 + 1 = 7
Ref - 6 + 0 = 6
Will - 14 + 2 = 16
BAB- +8 + 1 Size on attacks
SR 25 against all but me.
Improved Evasion
Immune to Acid, Cold, Sleep, Paralysis, “All spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts”, Mind affecting spells, as well as divination, and Scrying.
Darkvision, Low Light Vision
Vulnerable to Fire
Bite, 2 Claws
+10 to hit for 1d6+1 Bite
+5 2 claws for 1d4
Stats
Str - 13
Dex - 10
Con - 13
Int - 15
Wis - 15
Cha - 14
Abilities
Breath Weapon- DC 14 Reflex for 2d8 cold damage or Fort save DC 14 or paralyzed 1 round.
Alternate Form 3x day – Animal or humanoid of medium size.
Feats
1 – Flyby Attack (Move and attack as the same action)
3 – Hover (Can Hover)
Gear (37.000)
Int, Cha, Con +4 (275000)
Int, Cha, Con +6 (108.000)
Amulet Natural Armor +5 (50k)
Ring of Protection +5 (50k)
+5 Mithril Buckler – (26k)
+5 Cloak of Resistance (25K)
Freedom of Movement Ring (40k)
Major Spell Storing Ring (200K) Holds 10 levels of spells (time-stop and feather fall)
Thanks again for any additional info, feel like im on the right track for this :D still have a couple weeks to figure everything out and read more.
-RadicalTaoist: Every scrap of info on wizards i can find is to give up enchantment/evo/necro for the most part, thanks for making that even more firm in my mind.
Wow, thanks for the incredibly detailed post krusk! If i may ask, what do you mean when in your sheet you break down "abilities" and feats? And under feats, what is the number designation? (1, m1, w3 ect.)
As far as I can tell, he's splitting up feat abilities from non-feat abilities (i.e. class features and etc. effects) to track them separately. They retrain differently, for instance (you can swap feats around, but not class features).
The numerics on the feat list are clear, though: They're timing points, just with an abbreviation code. The numbers alone are character level; if there's a letter it looks like class level (all of his classes grant bonus feats at specific points). W for Wizard, SPEC for Master Specialist, M for Malconvoker.
-RadicalTaoist: Every scrap of info on wizards i can find is to give up enchantment/evo/necro for the most part, thanks for making that even more firm in my mind.
I have no idea why they're saying give up necromancy. It is awesome - just not in the "army of the undead" sense that the word usually evokes. Arcane necromancers don't bother with zombies - they curse you into oblivion and gift-wrap your soul.
Heh, Necro has some really nice spells aside from those mentioned as well, Look at Waves of Exhaustion. That spell shuts down a lot of characters. Half speed, -6 Str and Dex, Cannot run or charge. This hits a 60' cone shaped burst, and allows no save. SR's allowed but you aught to be able to make that check if you're straight caster.
Exhaustion, fatigue, fear, negative levels, ability damage/drain, assorted huge penalties to every d20 roll people make, and a load of other conditions, all thanks to necromancy. This can get particularly fearsome if you summon the right monsters to exploit these penalties.
Speaking of exhausting, Andarious: Pre-reboot, Elerosse had Dessicating Burst on both ends of his double scimitar. Imagine if anything that survived him was slapped with Exhausted. I think that was one of the reasons DisposableHero agreed to convert that blade into a legacy weapon during the reboot: it's easier to control what effects are hooked up on those. (To the overwhelming majority of readers: Elerosse is the TWF revenant-blade critical hit specialist in one of our games. It's not uncommon for him to dish out hundreds of points of damage with reasonable reliability, averaging just over a critical hit every full attack now (and with assorted methods of full attacking more or less on demand, such as Sudden Leap). Add MIC's Dessicating Burst on top of that? OW.)
Any room for a few levels of Archmage? A level or two into Arcane Reach can turn Greater Plane Shift into one of the game's best spells.
Tempest explains my numbering next to the feats, and yes that is how I differentiate feats and abilities.
Giving up necromancy was really hard. Its my favorite school, and I ended up doing it because I always take it and wanted to try something new. I do think its a solid 3rd choice for most people though. Every school has some awesome game changers you need, but if you've got to drop a third school I think necro is it. Divination? No scry and die and a lot of utility. Illusion or transmutation? no way. By proxy that means necro.
Save or screwed spells - Yeah, I probably out to focus on DC spells. I'm still pumping DCs as best I can. The idea being that I summon 1 or 2 things a fight, and then sort of "hide" during the rest of combat throwing a save or die if things look dire. Unfortunatley, there are two other PCs remotely optimized, and the rest sort of suck. My wifes barbarian (who I totally didn't help with) and my buddies warlock, which is a warlock. The other PCs are a monk, healbot cleric, rogue (not optimized), and a warmage. I don't want to outshine them, so I'm holding back a lot, even at this level. I also don't want to rely on the save or die spells because the DM isn't the most rules savvy, and has been known to give monsters a bump so they pass that sort of thing. If I'm throwing them out every fight, I expect they would start to save a lot more than they should.
The last few levels of master specialist aren't "locked in" or anything. I might drop a few for archmage, I always do like that.
I try to stay core-ish with my spells to reduce books carried and sources I need to reference, there are definatley a few non-core spells I should grab.