Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 fusedshadowsetdoom Jul 12, 2009 0:47:43	In my campaighn my fighter just leveled up, and i have no clue what to do with him, since as i see now fighters seem woefully underpowered. to link to him: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=135102 Does anyone have an idea about how to improve him (prestige classes, feats, etc)
#2 dandu Jul 12, 2009 1:18:55	Dungeoncrasher Figher6/Monk1/Suel Anarchamage4/Abjurant Champion5/Spellsword1/Swiftblade5? Or Use a Warblade. Edit: After taking the look at your sheet, all I can say is you NEED to learn more about the importance of Constitution. There is no excuse for having a Wis higher than Con, or Int for that matter, and you have no Con boosting items. I get that you're an archer, but you still need to be able to take hits. As is, you have less HP than several wizards I've played.
#3 Senevri Jul 12, 2009 3:44:56	Well, it's not as horrible as it could be. To "Repair" this, go to Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage ASAP. Alternatively, qualifying for Suel Arcanamach shouldn't be hard. Go Suel 3/Virtuoso 2/SubChord, which is the shortest path for casting power. However, going Initiator is MUCH, MUCH BETTER a choice, since you have base IL of 10 to start with and can get up to 6th level maneuvers from the get-go. Also, naturally a Clr1/Cru1/RKV is a solid path. Possibly Blackguard, since it gets some spells which may be more useful at this point. the RIGHT first-level spells can be quite relevant even late on. Since Psionics is allowed, do consider going Egoist. Or... what about Factotum? Not much more combat prowess (well, int to hit/damage immediately) but your utility shoots up fast. Consider Dark Phoenix Mage as a combination - they get to make untrained knowledge checks and get +2 to History, at least. JPM requires 2nd spellcasting, which is 2 levels via Suel Arcanamach.
#4 fusedshadowsetdoom Jul 12, 2009 10:06:47	Would it be worthwhile to take levels as a master of nine or should stay swordsage?
#5 rebel7284 Jul 12, 2009 10:56:21	Master of nine has pretty heavy feat prerequisites. Unless you can retrain, I suggest saving your Epic feats for other things. Eternal Blade has lighter prerequisites :D
#6 Senevri Jul 12, 2009 12:03:24	That being said, Mo9 gives you fastest access to maneuvers, dual stances and up to +9 on damage. Prereqs go something like dodge, mobility, improved unarmed strike, blind fighting, adaptive style. You could dip to Cobra Strike monk for two levels to get the first three, and you want adaptive style anyway. However, Cobra Strike Monk isn't Swordsage levels. So... Don't rush it, basically. First two levels of Swordsage give plenty to start with, anyway. If you can get Eternal Blade, it's pretty awesome - a floating maneuver, ability to pierce any DR on single target, and of course, the eventual full round as an immediate action. That is huge.
#7 dr_rocktopus Jul 12, 2009 12:21:59	How much retraining are you permitted? Knowing this will let me line up in my head where precisely we can take this build.
#8 Senevri Jul 12, 2009 12:30:39	I see you've gone Swordsage. Not seeing stances yet. Blood in the Water is crazy good if you have high-crit rate. There's a stance which makes you count as 1 size larger, which is good for archery. Child of Shadows is effectively Hide in Plain Sight. Outside that, there's the ignore terrain, air walk, fire immunity etc. stances. Ring of Fire and Searing Charge are okay, but remember, a lot of opponents are immune to fire. Look further into Shadow and Tiger disciplines. Diamond Mind also has some great picks. I think the ToB Compendium is still in the first three pages of the board. Take a look there.
#9 Balthanon Jul 12, 2009 14:07:15	Another thing to consider at this point is that at 22nd level the magic items that allow you to take 7th, 8th, and 9th level maneuvers are easily affordable. Use the maneuvers and stances you gain through Swordsage to pick up the prerequisites you need in order to take higher level maneuvers through those items. That should let you grab some very relevant maneuvers right off the bat-- 2 levels of Swordsage and 1 level of Warblade will pick up 13 prerequisite maneuvers. Easily enough to pick up enough prerequisites for 2 9th level maneuvers if you're focused (3 if you count Mountain Tombstone Strike, which is available without prerequisites). Given your focus on ranged combat, you might want to focus on maneuvers that can be used on ranged attacks as well as in melee. That includes things like Dancing and Raging Mongoose (1 and 2 extra attacks if you're not wielding two weapons), Giant's Stance (which will effectively increase your weapon size), Blood in the Water (not quite as good since you're only at 19-20 crit range) and Time Stands Still (two full attacks). I would definitely consider picking up at least one level of Warblade for Weapon Aptitude as well. You have a lot of feats dedicated to the greatbow and that will let you swap all of those over to a different weapon if you're expecting a lot of melee one day or you're fighting underwater or something (aquatic longbow). Exotic Weapon Proficiency + Weapon Aptitude means you can adapt to almost any weapon in the game with only an hour's practice.
#10 fusedshadowsetdoom Jul 13, 2009 13:01:30	I was planning on taking warblade next level. but wouldn't swordsage 2/warblade 1 only grabt 10 manuvers and 2/3 (can't remember if swordsage 2 adds a stance) stances? I was thinking of adding sapphire and ruby nightmare blades along with one of the use concentration instead of a check maneuvers from my warblade levels, would that be a good idea?
#11 blightersbane Jul 13, 2009 13:32:32	Maybe I got lost but from the original post about optimizing a 22nd level fighter to the responses seem more of a -how to build a GISH or how to change the PC? Are you allowed to go back and change the build? BB
#12 fusedshadowsetdoom Jul 13, 2009 16:16:01	Not without wishes for each feat/level i want to redo (or Deck of many things) which did lead to a discussion can the spell cheat be used on deck of many things. I could change it, but would likely need more wishes than i can get a hold of without cheating the deck of many things repeatedly, and our party still needs most of my bow optimization feats for the moment so that presents an issue
#13 Senevri Jul 13, 2009 16:37:08	A big thing to remember with the skill check saves is that natural one isn't an automatic failure. Also, your Con check should be around double your save a lot of the time. Worst thing from picking WB levels is loss of 0.5 points of SS levels, but the first few levels definitely give more than lose. Remember, the second level stance isn't restricted to be a first level one, no more. Also remember that ANY initiator prestige, except Bloodstorm Blade, will progress ALL your initiator levels directly. I don't find Sapphire particularily luresome, preferring Emerald to it, except if you have sneak attack or somesuch, but the higher level Nightmare Blades are relatively sweet.
#14 Balthanon Jul 13, 2009 17:41:40	Stances actually count as maneuvers for prerequisites, that's why you get the equivalent of 13 maneuvers for meeting prerequisites with the three levels. You're starting as a 21st level fighter, which gives you 10 initiator levels. Swordsage 1 at that point gets you to 11th, which is 6th level maneuvers. If you then take your Warblade level next, you then have 22 non-warblade levels + 1 warblade, so initiator level 12. Your second level of swordsage will then include 22 levels (11 IL levels) + 2 swordsage, for initiator level 13 and 7th level maneuvers. There's really no loss to your IL for taking that one level of Warblade. Doing it that way, you should have 9 maneuvers of up to 6th level, 2 stances of 1st level, and one maneuver and stance of up to 7th level. For your seventh level maneuver, I would consider either Shadow Blink or Swooping Dragon Strike. You might want to go with Shadow Blink just to save Swooping Dragon Strike for a warblade maneuver-- with a high jump check the save on it is almost impassable. If you need a Diamond Mind maneuver for prerequisites, Quicksilver Motion isn't bad either. For your stance, you will probably want Prey on the Weak-- you're going back to 5th level stances otherwise. (Though that does include Giant's Stance, which applies to ranged and melee combat.) Another option is to change your build around a little and go with Fighter 21/Swordsage 1/Warblade 1/Bloodclaw Master 2/Swordsage 1. That will give you your second Swordsage stance when you have 8th level maneuvers and can pick up the best stances in the game. After that, another level in Bloodclaw Master can give you Raging Mongoose and you can go almost any combination of Warblade and Swordsage picking any maneuver you want at any level.
#15 fusedshadowsetdoom Jul 14, 2009 16:30:57	no i start at 22 level, moving into 23 level, not 21 going to 22, but thanks for the help, i like your suggestions
#16 Balthanon Jul 14, 2009 19:40:49	Ahh-- I was going off of the 21st level in the title of your character sheet. In that case, you might as well go with Swordsage 2/Warblade 1 unless you want to delay for 8th level stances. That way you're picking up Wisdom to AC a bit earlier.
#17 fusedshadowsetdoom Jul 14, 2009 21:38:42	Since we plan to make the Sword an aptitude weapon, and don't really plan on underwater adventures, I'd guess that going swordsage 2/warbade 1/ swordasge x should be fine