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Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rodolfomaxi Apr 09, 2008 16:35:39	Since now i thank you for opinions and tips you could give.:D My idea is making a character with a lot of iterative attacks (from High BAB) and with a bunch of natural attacks as well. He is meant to run smoothly in a AMF. Books Available: Any 3.5 (i want to avoid Dragon Magazines though, don't have acess to them) Character streotyope: Big tank, power attacking guy, high hp, the less spells/power/item dependance the best. This character will be played at level 25. There's house-rules: feats every odd level No penalty for multiclassing 12.500 xp to LA BUYOFF The other potential members are greatly builds of wizards, psions, monk-maneuvers users, and dragons. I'm looking for help to achieve a trick: Take lots of damage, control the damage to other PCs to be directed to me, have high fast healing, be a crazy damage dealer, basically a beast so fierce that could stand toe-on-toe with two tarrasques/dragons and survive. Need help with: classes, items, prestiges classes and spells/powers that i could permanent them on me(paying a caster) by any means( tatoos etc). Basically i want to make a character that looks like this: http://logangfx.deviantart.com/art/Balador-73346058 This pic is great in my opinion...congratulations to the artist! My first shot was this: build classes: ranger2/barbarian2/warshaper4/crusader8/warblade 2/bloodstorm blade4/swordsage2/bloodclaw master1/ Here's my interest in picking each of them: ranger 2 for twf barabarian 2 for pounce and future improved uncanny with warblade warshaper to gain critical immunity and fast healing crusader to increase my initiator level (aiming to girallon windmill flesh rip mostly) warblade so i can easily enter the bloodstorm and be a ranged combatant, as well as pumping forth my initiator level (already at 14) bloodstorm blade so i can full-attack-throw my axe as if it was meele. swordsage For good and many maneuvers (better than the others) preparation for bloodclaw master (getting three tiger ones and init. level +16) Blood claw master Initiator level becomes +17 and i can choose girallon windmill flesh rip as his extra tiger maneuver, that i shall add as a warblade maneuver for good recovering method. Also, damage with claw adding full str bonus(instead of half) feats: H -? 1 - ? 2-toughness (PHB) 3-pain mastery (Savage species) 4-brutal throw (comp.adv.) 5-power attack 6-leap attack (comp. adv) 7-Favored power attack (comp.warrior) 8- ? 9- ? 10-Rapid strike (claws) 11- fast healing(draconomicon) +3 12-fast healing (draconomicon) +3 13-fast healing (draconomicon) +3 (+11 fast healing) Pain mastery gives me +2 Str for each 50 damage i take (lasts until end of encounter) so... that's why i need to receive much hp damage. Fast healing is there to help me survive so much attacks. Leap attack, power attack, favored power attack is there to help me increase damage this extra str will give me. Rapid strike is to give me more than one attack per claw (to do max damage with girallon).
#2 sinfire_titan Apr 09, 2008 16:45:48	Why do that when Lion-Totem Barbarian 2/Totemist 5/Totem Rager 10/Bear Warrior 3 does the same thing while getting massive numbers of natural attacks on a charge?
#3 archerpwr Apr 09, 2008 16:48:49	A couple of things: 1) Edit your post to follow the posting guidelines in my sig. CO gets too much of a kick out of Caturday. 2) Powers are much easier than spells. I can help. 3) Multiclassing seems to be fine with matuty. 4) Potion belt (ECS)+Enlarge person pots are really cheap. 5) Get an amulet of mighty fist or GMW from the ethergaunt 6) Sorry, bludgeoning only. 7) Matuty has already ruled against custom spell effect items. 8) I wouldn't focus on it 9) See lockdown 10) delay death
#4 Omen_of_Peace Apr 09, 2008 17:27:56	1,2) Permanency works but is subject to dispels (pack Rings of Counterspells). But Greater Enlarge Person (SC) and GM Fang last hours/level. 3) IIRC a bite has all 3 damage types, so GM Wallop should work. 4) The Valorous enchantment does that. 6a) Shield Other, I guess. And Crusader/Knight to incite them to attack you. 6b) Like archerpwr said, Delay Death (SC). Possibly combined with Beastland Ferocity (SC). There's an Antimagic Torc in Underdark, and antimagic dust (1-shot) in Lords of Madness.
#5 rodolfomaxi Apr 09, 2008 22:46:36	Many thanks for the feedback guys... Archer, edited my post, what do you think now? :P Also, i've seen your lockdown build but got confused...sorry. Could you give me a short explanation of what he does? (I now he aims for Battlefield control isn't it?) Now for your feedback: What is these Totem thins sinfire mentioned? Never heard of them. Could i accomplish the same as in my build (or better)? What is ethergaunt? If you won't focus on fast healing: what's the best way to really take the damage (to boost up Str with the Pain feat) and survive? The valorous enchantment is what? A armor special ability? Shield other? What's and where's that?? I read something about the concept on Miniatures Handbook. The Tatical soldier has a ability called interpose (only three time day though... )
#6 archerpwr Apr 09, 2008 23:35:36	Lockdown basically runs up to the enemy and prevents the enemy from moving (even 5' steps). It basically assures the squishies freedom to act. I'd add occult opportunist for this. Ethergaunt=Wizard creature smarter than god. One of the PCs. Eat damage: The King of Smack is the best I've seen. Minor shapeshift (CM) needs casting, but works great with Lady's Gambit. Valorious=UA or OA iirc. Shield other=PHB
#7 aftercrescent Apr 09, 2008 23:35:43	Lockdown uses Thicket of Blades and standstill to make opponents stay in a certain place and take a full attack. Totemist is from Magic of Incarnum. If you're open to using it, Sinfire is the resident expert on MoI, IMHO. Ethergaunt is from Fiend Folio, I believe. It has 16 Aberration HD and a +4 LA. Damage reduction is useful, although not superb. The best way to "really take damage" is not to take it at all. Use things that keep you from getting hit, like concealment. Valorous enchantment is a weapon ability, found in Champions of Valor, IIRC. Shield other and Delay death are spells. Edit: Ninja'd by Archer. touche sir ;) Also, it appears I may be wrong about Valorous.
#8 nanshork Apr 10, 2008 0:35:03	The Urskan in Frostburn is an anthropomorhpic polar bear. Unfortunately they have 5HD and +4LA
#9 Omen_of_Peace Apr 10, 2008 3:26:17	Google is your friend : the first hit tells you where Valorous is. Repeat as needed, then come here to ask the questions you couldn't find an answer to. Lion-Totem is an alternate class feature for the Barbarian in Complete Champion, and Totem Rager a PrC. I repeat my suggestion to take a look at aftercrescent's build.
#10 templer10 Apr 10, 2008 5:29:01	Ethergaunt=Wizard creature smarter than god. One of the PCs. Only 54 Int.... about GMW and greater magic wallop - i can cast both on you if needed (iam the ethergaunt) - ill be chaining them probably since i imagine you wont be the only one wanting them.
#11 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 6:25:40	Hmm, that's gret guys. Sin Fire, have you made a handbook, or have one which you recommend? (since you are the Incarnum master) And what about the idea of AMF? Putting the angels to fight inside one would be good, or would end bothering my character more than they? I'm thinking of the suggestion of Matuty Be a shifter and PrC with Were-touched master. But aftercrescent pointed me that would be ...meh! I thought of getting: What about bear warrior?
#12 sinfire_titan Apr 10, 2008 8:28:16	Hmm, that's gret guys. Sin Fire, have you made a handbook, or have one which you recommend? (since you are the Incarnum master) And what about the idea of AMF? Putting the angels to fight inside one would be good, or would end bothering my character more than they? I'm thinking of the suggestion of Matuty Be a shifter and PrC with Were-touched master. But aftercrescent pointed me that would be ...meh! I thought of getting: What about bear warrior? No, but the Totemist and Totem Rager sections of the Incarnum Handbook cover the idea quite well. I will think about making one, but with 4E so close, and these forums about to be taken down, I don't know if it will be a good idea as I might never complete it.
#13 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 8:47:34	AH!, just found your handbook Sin Fire. I'll be reading it.
#14 sinfire_titan Apr 10, 2008 8:52:58	AH!, just found your handbook Sinfire. I'll be reading it. Fixed. And good.
#15 ander_spectacular Apr 10, 2008 9:22:47	Fast Healing is not going to help you survive hits very well, it will only help save time in healing out of combat. Blowing 3 feats to help you heal an extra 9hp/round is a waste. I also don't know if you will be able to take rapidstrike, it has some pretty specific racial prereqs. Why the interest in TWF if you never improve it? You also might want to go look at the other builds that are being entered. For example, my build has 7+ attacks/round each dealing roughly 50 damage and has over 500hp. He also has full druid casting. I worry that your build diverges too much and is not focused. You really should take a look at Sentinel of Bharai in BoED. You gain an at will ability to assume bear form, which you can stay in all the time. If you took at least a level in one casting class, it would also give you some useful casting ability. I wouldn't worry about AMFs, they are no big deal at the level we are at. Any caster worth a crap can handle an AMF pretty easily. -AS-
#16 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 9:25:47	Well, i'm thinking of going a shifter: totemist/warshaper/weretouched master/warblade/bloodclaw master. Or would that suck? (i'm not really a fan of rage actually, barbarian was more for the pounce than other thing)
#17 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 9:34:14	Fast Healing is not going to help you survive hits very well, it will only help save time in healing out of combat. Blowing 3 feats to help you heal an extra 9hp/round is a waste. Well, any other means to take the damage (to gain +2 str) and survive? (i dunno perhaps healing half the damage i do, or something like that) I also don't know if you will be able to take rapidstrike, it has some pretty specific racial prereqs. Why the interest in TWF if you never improve it? My interest is: if i take the draconic template (that LA i can buy) i will be considered a dragonblood race, take the feat of Rac. of Dra. that gives me a tail and two-weapon becomes multi-weapon fighting, so i can attack with the claws and bite better! You also might want to go look at the other builds that are being entered. For example, my build has 7+ attacks/round each dealing roughly 50 damage and has over 500hp. He also has full druid casting. I worry that your build diverges too much and is not focused. I didn't understand what you meant with not focused. I aim to do just one thing: lots of natural attacks. You really should take a look at Sentinel of Bharai in BoED. You gain an at will ability to assume bear form, which you can stay in all the time. If you took at least a level in one casting class, it would also give you some useful casting ability. Shall read it ASAP. I wouldn't worry about AMFs, they are no big deal at the level we are at. Any caster worth a crap can handle an AMF pretty easily. -AS- No? I thought meeting a tank in a AMF was a caster highest nightmare... How can that not bother him? Also, if i could dispel their buffs with my attacks it would be nice wouldn't it? There's any way to do it? (i had read once about a dispelling ability of weapons, but the Dc was very low wasn't it?)
#18 ander_spectacular Apr 10, 2008 9:37:40	Well, i'm thinking of going a shifter: totemist/warshaper/weretouched master/warblade/bloodclaw master. Or would that suck? (i'm not really a fan of rage actually, barbarian was more for the pounce than other thing) Weretouched Master has been errataed and its final ability has changed. Again, I would look at some of the other builds for the game and try and compare what you are doing with what has already been posted. Some of the other PCs are incredibly nasty and can do what you are trying to do. It is important to remember that the warshaper bonuses will only apply when you are shifting and it takes a lot of work(and many suboptimal feats) to get useful shifting ability. Also, without Crusader levels getting Immortal Fortitude will be difficult. -AS-
#19 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 9:43:59	Thanks Ander, bless me with your wisdom on the other subjects too. I need to understand the crappy thoughts i'm having. (i'm not being ironical) So, i get ther's lot of gishes/full casters/pure casters... What else is there to do? A skill monkey?
#20 ander_spectacular Apr 10, 2008 9:46:15	Well, any other means to take the damage (to gain +2 str) and survive? (i dunno perhaps healing half the damage i do, or something like that) The spell Delay Death is all you need. A good way to think about it is if you get hit by 3 attacks/round that do 50 damage each, the fast healing only gives you 11 hp back after that round. You still have taken 140 points of damage. Not a great feat investment. My interest is: if i take the draconic template (that LA i can buy) i will be considered a dragonblood race, take the feat of Rac. of Dra. that gives me a tail and two-weapon becomes multi-weapon fighting, so i can attack with the claws and bite better! I don't think that TWF and Multiweapon fighting stack in any way. TWF would give you 1 extra off hand attack with a weapon/unarmed strike, not natural attacks. I didn't understand what you meant with not focused. I aim to do just one thing: lots of natural attacks. Natural attacks are easy to get in large number, what you have to do is make sure they do something. As is, your build could get locked down pretty quickly by a Thicket of Blades bad guy. No? I thought meeting a tank in a AMF was a caster highest nightmare... How can that not bother him? You walk out of it or just use some conjuration spells that don't allow SR. AMFs are highly overrated Also, if i could dispel their buffs with my attacks it would be nice wouldn't it? There's any way to do it? (i had read once about a dispelling ability of weapons, but the Dc was very low wasn't it?) The Mage Slayer line of feats from CA have a dispelling style attack. Your idea is good and with proper tweaking could be devastating. Its just a matter of fine tuning the idea so that you are really optimized and can handle a variety of challenges. If you get limited to a single attack every round(pretty easy to do), you would lose a lot of the power of the build. Since Delay Death is a 4th level cleric spell, you could dip a level or 2 in Cloistered Cleric, get some domains, get turning and spells. Then you could enter Sentinel of Bharai and get the always on bear shape and buff that shape with your Cleric spells. Having some ability to cast would be really helpful. -AS-
#21 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 10:09:05	Hmmm, that looks good. i won't die and can keep gaining strength. So, even few levels of spellcasting are good? I read the CA mage slayer and thought they were weak... after all, how many spell buffs to ac can somebody have? Natural attacks are easy to get in large number, what you have to do is make sure they do something. As is, your build could get locked down pretty quickly by a Thicket of Blades bad guy. What can i do to: A) Get the large number B) Don't get limited to a single attack (i choose pounce to be able to charge effectively with it) C) Don't get locked down by a ***.
#22 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 10:16:28	Just read sentinel of Bharrai: LOW BAB? D4 HP???? Okay, fullcasting is great but... This won't hurt me as a tank??? I know there's divine metamagic but i'm very afraid of being highly dependant of spells. I dunno maybe some master dispeller comes and ... puf. I die.
#23 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 10:21:17	The idea of a tank is to be in the WAY of all the attacks, not to get HIT by all the attacks. This is where fighters get it wrong. If you can get int the way of all the attacks but make them all miss you, then you don't need that much HP. Or "You don't need armor if you don't get hit."
#24 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 10:35:22	But vincen, i need to take hp damage for my little trick to work. trick: take 50/damage gain +2 str. Absorb all party damage/turn > HUGE str increase/round. I was thinking: If i get shield other i take 50% of the damage inflicted on party members... What if i chained it to affect all the party? Edit: Thanks again for helping me guys... with your guidance we shall make this a viable character.
#25 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 11:02:59	I understand you have extra feats and campaign specific goodies but this is just a standard 32 point buy level 20 build with lots of Natural Attacks that you'll enhance with Arcane Strike. Some Spell usage but not major. Use your extra feats to buy Battle Caster, Improved Natural weapon, and Improved Natural Armor. Dragonborn (mind) Raptorian Stalwart, Dragon Blood, Battle Sorcerer (sorc) Sorc 4, Fighter 1, Dragon Heart Mage 2, Stormtalon 4, Dragon Disciple 2, Stormtalon 4, Dragon Disciple 2, Dreagon Heart Mage 2, Abjurant Champion 5 In that order with the following feats B (from battle sorcerer) -- MWP(foot bow) B (from Stalwart) -- MWP(Long Sword) B (from Stalwart) -- WF(Long Sword) B (from Dragon Blood) -- Draconic Heritage 1st -- Dragon Tail Flaw -- Aberant Blood Flaw -- Inhuman Reach 3rd -- Deepspawn B (from Fighter) -- Improved Toughness 6 -- Beastial Hide B (from Dragon Heart Mage) -- Draconic Breath B (from Dragon heart Mage) -- Draconic Claw 9 -- Durable Form B (from stormtalon) -- Multi Attack B (from stormtalon) -- Improved Flight 12 -- Waterspawn B (from Dragon Heart Mage) -- Draconic Toughness 15 -- Combat Casting 18 -- Arcane Strike STR 12 (14 after DD) DEX 12 (14 before dragonborn) CON 18 (16 before dragon born) INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 16 HD 2d12 + 10d10 + 4d8 + 4d6 + 8 + 12 + 8 + 60 (238 HP) BAB +16 Fort + 15 (+19 after stat Mod) Ref + 4 (+5 after stat Mod) Will + 16 (+ 15 after stat Mod) AC 15 (+ 1 Dex +4 Natural add armor of your flavor) Movement Modes: 30 ft walking 50 Flight, 30 ft swimming Reach: 10 ft Full Attack +13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13 (bite/claw/claw/claw/claw/tail/tentacle/tentacle) Damage d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d4+2/d4+2 (add +x/+xd4 where x equals spell slot sacrificed to Arcane Strike) Sorcerer Casting Level 16th (12th before Martial Arcanist) Spells Per Day 5/5/5/5/5/4/2 Spells Known 8/4/4/3/1/1/1 Special Qualities: Waterbreathing, Airbreathing, flight (50/good), Lowlight x 4, Darkvision 120 ft, Blindsense 30, Immunity paralysis, Sleep, Frightful Presence, Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration, Swift Abjuration, Arcane Boost, Martial Arcanist, Cold Resistance 5 Weapon and Armor Proficienies: All Simple, All Martial, Foot bow, Light and Medium Armor (can cast in light with no ASF), all shields Skills: Concentration (max ranks) Knowledge (arcane) (at least 8 ranks) Languages: Common, Draconic Add in the a Long sword and you'll get 4 extra attacks from it at the cost of 1 claw attack.
#26 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 11:11:42	:OMG! HOW MUCH NATURAL ATTACKS! This build looks good... very good. I read it right? it can cast 7th level spells? As the guys stated from my first build: How can this character prevent himself of being locked (by a thicket of blades) and be able to full-attack often.?
#27 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 11:16:47	Um 6th level spells and only has 1 known each of 4th 5th and 6th. But you'll still have uses for those spells per day from the arcane strike which adds too all natural attacks. He has flight, and reach of 10 at medium size, other than that look to magic items, or spells, I didn't do a spell list for the build yet.
#28 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 11:19:21	So if i understood right there is a total of +48d4 of extra damage if all attacks hits in a full attack action... You gave me nice ideas...
#29 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 11:28:07	Yeah that's right and an extra + 4 to hit is untyped too. Combat reflexes and whirlwind could fit in nicely with that reach but I run out of feats in the standard building system. Of course you could go master Transmorphist from complete arcane, polymorph into a hydra and then add on the krakens tentacle attacks. Last note, all those Aberrant feats? yeah you do take a -6 to most CHA checks because of them. But I doubt that's a real issue for this kind of build.
#30 aftercrescent Apr 10, 2008 12:06:36	Just a note, if matuty okay's the urskan, you'll qualify for rapidstrike/imp rapidstrike. that's 7 attacks/round as a full attack dealing 1d8 & 2d6 base damage. That's without any buffs. If you place the dracon devotee ontop of that, you can end up with something like Urskan5/Sorcer 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 10/X 2. Yes it looks like a casting build, but you have at least 7 attacks. With feats, a few spells, and/or magic itmes you can increase the damage as well as the number of attacks. You'll be able to avoid getting hit, and instead of worrying about spells (other than haste, which is awesome) you can channel your spell slots into Arcane Strike to do even more damage. Best part? You're a bipedal draconic polar bear capable of wearing armor and weilding weapons! :D
#31 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 12:17:33	ack I forgot the stat boosts every four levels. so you still have 5 stat points to distirbute too. And the raptorian fighter level lets you fly in medium armor and with medium encumbrance.
#32 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 12:24:31	Best part? You're a bipedal draconic polar bear capable of wearing armor and weilding weapons! Yes, best part indeed hehe :D What is where is swift blade? I think is a PrC that let the guy do some miracle with haste as his main tatic right?
#33 aftercrescent Apr 10, 2008 12:25:41	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327
#34 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 13:05:14	I read it... Swift blade really made me crazy... but i won't use it this time... (because your build has it too) So read the PM and se what you think
#35 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 13:05:25	That PrC is nice... if I drop the last 2 levels of Dragon Heart mage and the abjurant champion, I could take dodge with the fighter level, mobility instead of combat casting, grab a level of barbarian for one of the dragon heart levels, and then take six levels of the swift blade. And that would net a BAB +17 for 15 HP and take my max spell level down to 4th. So it would be... Sorc 4 Fighter 1 Dragonheart mage 2 Stormtalon 2 Dragon Disciple 2 Barbarian 1 Swiftblade 6 And would improve defensive capabilities and offensive capabilities. DOESN'T WORK needs 3rd level spells before swift blade.
#36 aftercrescent Apr 10, 2008 13:11:53	I'm not the only one with swiftblade, Archer has it too. I responded to your PM, as well. Just remember: the class is merely the mechanics behind it, it's how you flavor it that matters. You could easily describe a raging draconic polar bear under a haste affect as some kind of mad foaming bear-like rage... Flavor =/= Build mechanics.
#37 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 13:18:13	kudos to archer too then.
#38 rodolfomaxi Apr 10, 2008 13:20:31	Thanks for the tip after... And to you too Vicen. There's something close to arcane strike that works with divine spells?
#39 aftercrescent Apr 10, 2008 13:29:32	not that I know of, but you could ask matuty about a homebrew feat that works the same way ;)
#40 vicen_korel Apr 10, 2008 13:37:11	I don't know of anything either, by the way that swift blade build won't work with like I posted. You wouldn't get haste before taking the swift blade levels, and that just doesn't work.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

rodolfomaxi

Apr 09, 2008 16:35:39

Since now i thank you for opinions and tips you could give.:D

My idea is making a character with a lot of iterative attacks (from High BAB) and with a bunch of natural attacks as well. He is meant to run smoothly in a AMF.

Books Available:
Any 3.5 (i want to avoid Dragon Magazines though, don't have acess to them)

Character streotyope:
Big tank, power attacking guy, high hp, the less spells/power/item dependance the best.

This character will be played at level 25.

There's house-rules:
feats every odd level
No penalty for multiclassing
12.500 xp to LA BUYOFF

The other potential members are greatly builds of wizards, psions, monk-maneuvers users, and dragons.

I'm looking for help to achieve a trick:
Take lots of damage, control the damage to other PCs to be directed to me, have high fast healing, be a crazy damage dealer, basically a beast so fierce that could stand toe-on-toe with two tarrasques/dragons and survive.

Need help with: classes, items, prestiges classes and spells/powers that i could permanent them on me(paying a caster) by any means( tatoos etc).

Basically i want to make a character that looks like this:
http://logangfx.deviantart.com/art/Balador-73346058
This pic is great in my opinion...congratulations to the artist!

My first shot was this:

build

classes:
ranger2/barbarian2/warshaper4/crusader8/warblade 2/bloodstorm blade4/swordsage2/bloodclaw master1/

Here's my interest in picking each of them:

ranger 2 for twf
barabarian 2 for pounce and future improved uncanny with warblade
warshaper to gain critical immunity and fast healing
crusader to increase my initiator level (aiming to girallon windmill flesh rip mostly)
warblade so i can easily enter the bloodstorm and be a ranged combatant, as well as pumping forth my initiator level (already at 14)
bloodstorm blade so i can full-attack-throw my axe as if it was meele.
swordsage For good and many maneuvers (better than the others) preparation for bloodclaw master (getting three tiger ones and init. level +16)
Blood claw master Initiator level becomes +17 and i can choose girallon windmill flesh rip as his extra tiger maneuver, that i shall add as a warblade maneuver for good recovering method. Also, damage with claw adding full str bonus(instead of half)

feats:

H -?
1 - ?
2-toughness (PHB)
3-pain mastery (Savage species)
4-brutal throw (comp.adv.)
5-power attack
6-leap attack (comp. adv)
7-Favored power attack (comp.warrior)
8- ?
9- ?
10-Rapid strike (claws)
11- fast healing(draconomicon) +3
12-fast healing (draconomicon) +3
13-fast healing (draconomicon) +3 (+11 fast healing)

Pain mastery gives me +2 Str for each 50 damage i take (lasts until end of encounter) so... that's why i need to receive much hp damage.
Fast healing is there to help me survive so much attacks.
Leap attack, power attack, favored power attack is there to help me increase damage this extra str will give me.
Rapid strike is to give me more than one attack per claw (to do max damage with girallon).

sinfire_titan

Apr 09, 2008 16:45:48

Why do that when Lion-Totem Barbarian 2/Totemist 5/Totem Rager 10/Bear Warrior 3 does the same thing while getting massive numbers of natural attacks on a charge?

archerpwr

Apr 09, 2008 16:48:49

A couple of things:
1) Edit your post to follow the posting guidelines in my sig. CO gets too much of a kick out of Caturday.
2) Powers are much easier than spells. I can help.
3) Multiclassing seems to be fine with matuty.
4) Potion belt (ECS)+Enlarge person pots are really cheap.
5) Get an amulet of mighty fist or GMW from the ethergaunt
6) Sorry, bludgeoning only.
7) Matuty has already ruled against custom spell effect items.
8) I wouldn't focus on it
9) See lockdown
10) delay death

Omen_of_Peace

Apr 09, 2008 17:27:56

1,2) Permanency works but is subject to dispels (pack Rings of Counterspells). But Greater Enlarge Person (SC) and GM Fang last hours/level.
3) IIRC a bite has all 3 damage types, so GM Wallop should work.
4) The Valorous enchantment does that.
6a) Shield Other, I guess. And Crusader/Knight to incite them to attack you.
6b) Like archerpwr said, Delay Death (SC). Possibly combined with Beastland Ferocity (SC).

There's an Antimagic Torc in Underdark, and antimagic dust (1-shot) in Lords of Madness.

rodolfomaxi

Apr 09, 2008 22:46:36

Many thanks for the feedback guys...

Archer, edited my post, what do you think now? :P
Also, i've seen your lockdown build but got confused...sorry.
Could you give me a short explanation of what he does?
(I now he aims for Battlefield control isn't it?)

Now for your feedback:

What is these Totem thins sinfire mentioned? Never heard of them.
Could i accomplish the same as in my build (or better)?

What is ethergaunt?

If you won't focus on fast healing: what's the best way to really take the damage (to boost up Str with the Pain feat) and survive?

The valorous enchantment is what? A armor special ability?

Shield other? What's and where's that?? I read something about the concept on Miniatures Handbook. The Tatical soldier has a ability called interpose (only three time day though...

)

archerpwr

Apr 09, 2008 23:35:36

Lockdown basically runs up to the enemy and prevents the enemy from moving (even 5' steps). It basically assures the squishies freedom to act. I'd add occult opportunist for this.

Ethergaunt=Wizard creature smarter than god. One of the PCs.

Eat damage: The King of Smack is the best I've seen. Minor shapeshift (CM) needs casting, but works great with Lady's Gambit.

Valorious=UA or OA iirc.

Shield other=PHB

aftercrescent

Apr 09, 2008 23:35:43

Lockdown uses Thicket of Blades and standstill to make opponents stay in a certain place and take a full attack.

Totemist is from Magic of Incarnum. If you're open to using it, Sinfire is the resident expert on MoI, IMHO.

Ethergaunt is from Fiend Folio, I believe. It has 16 Aberration HD and a +4 LA.

Damage reduction is useful, although not superb. The best way to "really take damage" is not to take it at all. Use things that keep you from getting hit, like concealment.

Valorous enchantment is a weapon ability, found in Champions of Valor, IIRC.

Shield other and Delay death are spells.

Edit: Ninja'd by Archer. touche sir ;) Also, it appears I may be wrong about Valorous.

nanshork

Apr 10, 2008 0:35:03

The Urskan in Frostburn is an anthropomorhpic polar bear. Unfortunately they have 5HD and +4LA

Omen_of_Peace

Apr 10, 2008 3:26:17

Google is your friend : the first hit tells you where Valorous is. Repeat as needed, then come here to ask the questions you couldn't find an answer to.

Lion-Totem is an alternate class feature for the Barbarian in Complete Champion, and Totem Rager a PrC. I repeat my suggestion to take a look at aftercrescent's build.

#10

templer10

Apr 10, 2008 5:29:01

Ethergaunt=Wizard creature smarter than god. One of the PCs.

Only 54 Int....

about GMW and greater magic wallop - i can cast both on you if needed (iam the ethergaunt) - ill be chaining them probably since i imagine you wont be the only one wanting them.

#11

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 6:25:40

Hmm, that's gret guys.

Sin Fire, have you made a handbook, or have one which you recommend?
(since you are the Incarnum master)

And what about the idea of AMF?
Putting the angels to fight inside one would be good, or would end bothering my character more than they?

I'm thinking of the suggestion of Matuty
Be a shifter and PrC with Were-touched master.
But aftercrescent pointed me that would be ...meh!

I thought of getting:
What about bear warrior?

#12

sinfire_titan

Apr 10, 2008 8:28:16

Hmm, that's gret guys.

Sin Fire, have you made a handbook, or have one which you recommend?
(since you are the Incarnum master)

And what about the idea of AMF?
Putting the angels to fight inside one would be good, or would end bothering my character more than they?

I'm thinking of the suggestion of Matuty
Be a shifter and PrC with Were-touched master.
But aftercrescent pointed me that would be ...meh!

I thought of getting:
What about bear warrior?

No, but the Totemist and Totem Rager sections of the Incarnum Handbook cover the idea quite well. I will think about making one, but with 4E so close, and these forums about to be taken down, I don't know if it will be a good idea as I might never complete it.

#13

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 8:47:34

AH!, just found your handbook Sin Fire. I'll be reading it.

#14

sinfire_titan

Apr 10, 2008 8:52:58

AH!, just found your handbook Sinfire. I'll be reading it.

Fixed. And good.

#15

ander_spectacular

Apr 10, 2008 9:22:47

Fast Healing is not going to help you survive hits very well, it will only help save time in healing out of combat. Blowing 3 feats to help you heal an extra 9hp/round is a waste. I also don't know if you will be able to take rapidstrike, it has some pretty specific racial prereqs. Why the interest in TWF if you never improve it?

You also might want to go look at the other builds that are being entered. For example, my build has 7+ attacks/round each dealing roughly 50 damage and has over 500hp. He also has full druid casting. I worry that your build diverges too much and is not focused.

You really should take a look at Sentinel of Bharai in BoED. You gain an at will ability to assume bear form, which you can stay in all the time. If you took at least a level in one casting class, it would also give you some useful casting ability.

I wouldn't worry about AMFs, they are no big deal at the level we are at. Any caster worth a crap can handle an AMF pretty easily.
-AS-

#16

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 9:25:47

Well, i'm thinking of going a shifter:
totemist/warshaper/weretouched master/warblade/bloodclaw master.

Or would that suck?
(i'm not really a fan of rage actually, barbarian was more for the pounce than other thing)

#17

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 9:34:14

Fast Healing is not going to help you survive hits very well, it will only help save time in healing out of combat. Blowing 3 feats to help you heal an extra 9hp/round is a waste.

Well, any other means to take the damage (to gain +2 str) and survive?
(i dunno perhaps healing half the damage i do, or something like that)

I also don't know if you will be able to take rapidstrike, it has some pretty specific racial prereqs. Why the interest in TWF if you never improve it?

My interest is: if i take the draconic template (that LA i can buy) i will be considered a dragonblood race, take the feat of Rac. of Dra. that gives me a tail and two-weapon becomes multi-weapon fighting, so i can attack with the claws and bite better!

You also might want to go look at the other builds that are being entered. For example, my build has 7+ attacks/round each dealing roughly 50 damage and has over 500hp. He also has full druid casting. I worry that your build diverges too much and is not focused.

I didn't understand what you meant with not focused. I aim to do just one thing: lots of natural attacks.

You really should take a look at Sentinel of Bharai in BoED. You gain an at will ability to assume bear form, which you can stay in all the time. If you took at least a level in one casting class, it would also give you some useful casting ability.

Shall read it ASAP.

I wouldn't worry about AMFs, they are no big deal at the level we are at. Any caster worth a crap can handle an AMF pretty easily.
-AS-

No? I thought meeting a tank in a AMF was a caster highest nightmare...
How can that not bother him?

Also, if i could dispel their buffs with my attacks it would be nice wouldn't it?
There's any way to do it?
(i had read once about a dispelling ability of weapons, but the Dc was very low wasn't it?)

#18

ander_spectacular

Apr 10, 2008 9:37:40

Well, i'm thinking of going a shifter:
totemist/warshaper/weretouched master/warblade/bloodclaw master.

Or would that suck?
(i'm not really a fan of rage actually, barbarian was more for the pounce than other thing)

Weretouched Master has been errataed and its final ability has changed. Again, I would look at some of the other builds for the game and try and compare what you are doing with what has already been posted. Some of the other PCs are incredibly nasty and can do what you are trying to do. It is important to remember that the warshaper bonuses will only apply when you are shifting and it takes a lot of work(and many suboptimal feats) to get useful shifting ability. Also, without Crusader levels getting Immortal Fortitude will be difficult.
-AS-

#19

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 9:43:59

Thanks Ander, bless me with your wisdom on the other subjects too.
I need to understand the crappy thoughts i'm having. (i'm not being ironical)

So, i get ther's lot of gishes/full casters/pure casters...

What else is there to do? A skill monkey?

#20

ander_spectacular

Apr 10, 2008 9:46:15

Well, any other means to take the damage (to gain +2 str) and survive?
(i dunno perhaps healing half the damage i do, or something like that)

The spell Delay Death is all you need. A good way to think about it is if you get hit by 3 attacks/round that do 50 damage each, the fast healing only gives you 11 hp back after that round. You still have taken 140 points of damage. Not a great feat investment.

My interest is: if i take the draconic template (that LA i can buy) i will be considered a dragonblood race, take the feat of Rac. of Dra. that gives me a tail and two-weapon becomes multi-weapon fighting, so i can attack with the claws and bite better!

I don't think that TWF and Multiweapon fighting stack in any way. TWF would give you 1 extra off hand attack with a weapon/unarmed strike, not natural attacks.

I didn't understand what you meant with not focused. I aim to do just one thing: lots of natural attacks.

Natural attacks are easy to get in large number, what you have to do is make sure they do something. As is, your build could get locked down pretty quickly by a Thicket of Blades bad guy.

No? I thought meeting a tank in a AMF was a caster highest nightmare...
How can that not bother him?

You walk out of it or just use some conjuration spells that don't allow SR. AMFs are highly overrated

Also, if i could dispel their buffs with my attacks it would be nice wouldn't it?
There's any way to do it?
(i had read once about a dispelling ability of weapons, but the Dc was very low wasn't it?)

The Mage Slayer line of feats from CA have a dispelling style attack.

Your idea is good and with proper tweaking could be devastating. Its just a matter of fine tuning the idea so that you are really optimized and can handle a variety of challenges. If you get limited to a single attack every round(pretty easy to do), you would lose a lot of the power of the build.

Since Delay Death is a 4th level cleric spell, you could dip a level or 2 in Cloistered Cleric, get some domains, get turning and spells. Then you could enter Sentinel of Bharai and get the always on bear shape and buff that shape with your Cleric spells. Having some ability to cast would be really helpful.
-AS-

#21

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 10:09:05

Hmmm, that looks good. i won't die and can keep gaining strength.

So, even few levels of spellcasting are good?

I read the CA mage slayer and thought they were weak... after all, how many spell buffs to ac can somebody have?

Natural attacks are easy to get in large number, what you have to do is make sure they do something. As is, your build could get locked down pretty quickly by a Thicket of Blades bad guy.

What can i do to:
A) Get the large number
B) Don't get limited to a single attack (i choose pounce to be able to charge effectively with it)
C) Don't get locked down by a ***.

#22

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 10:16:28

Just read sentinel of Bharrai:

LOW BAB?
D4 HP????

Okay, fullcasting is great but...

This won't hurt me as a tank???
I know there's divine metamagic but i'm very afraid of being highly dependant of spells. I dunno maybe some master dispeller comes and ... puf. I die.

#23

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 10:21:17

The idea of a tank is to be in the WAY of all the attacks, not to get HIT by all the attacks. This is where fighters get it wrong. If you can get int the way of all the attacks but make them all miss you, then you don't need that much HP.

Or

"You don't need armor if you don't get hit."

#24

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 10:35:22

But vincen, i need to take hp damage for my little trick to work.

trick: take 50/damage gain +2 str.
Absorb all party damage/turn > HUGE str increase/round.

I was thinking:
If i get shield other i take 50% of the damage inflicted on party members...
What if i chained it to affect all the party?

Edit:
Thanks again for helping me guys... with your guidance we shall make this a viable character.

#25

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 11:02:59

I understand you have extra feats and campaign specific goodies but this is just a standard 32 point buy level 20 build with lots of Natural Attacks that you'll enhance with Arcane Strike. Some Spell usage but not major. Use your extra feats to buy Battle Caster, Improved Natural weapon, and Improved Natural Armor.

Dragonborn (mind) Raptorian
Stalwart, Dragon Blood, Battle Sorcerer (sorc)

Sorc 4, Fighter 1, Dragon Heart Mage 2, Stormtalon 4, Dragon Disciple 2, Stormtalon 4, Dragon Disciple 2, Dreagon Heart Mage 2, Abjurant Champion 5

In that order with the following feats

B (from battle sorcerer) -- MWP(foot bow)
B (from Stalwart) -- MWP(Long Sword)
B (from Stalwart) -- WF(Long Sword)
B (from Dragon Blood) -- Draconic Heritage
1st -- Dragon Tail
Flaw -- Aberant Blood
Flaw -- Inhuman Reach
3rd -- Deepspawn
B (from Fighter) -- Improved Toughness
6 -- Beastial Hide
B (from Dragon Heart Mage) -- Draconic Breath
B (from Dragon heart Mage) -- Draconic Claw
9 -- Durable Form
B (from stormtalon) -- Multi Attack
B (from stormtalon) -- Improved Flight
12 -- Waterspawn
B (from Dragon Heart Mage) -- Draconic Toughness
15 -- Combat Casting
18 -- Arcane Strike

STR 12 (14 after DD) DEX 12 (14 before dragonborn) CON 18 (16 before dragon born) INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 16
HD 2d12 + 10d10 + 4d8 + 4d6 + 8 + 12 + 8 + 60 (238 HP)
BAB +16
Fort + 15 (+19 after stat Mod)
Ref + 4 (+5 after stat Mod)
Will + 16 (+ 15 after stat Mod)
AC 15 (+ 1 Dex +4 Natural *add armor of your flavor*)
Movement Modes: 30 ft walking 50 Flight, 30 ft swimming
Reach: 10 ft
Full Attack +13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13
(bite/claw/claw/claw/claw/tail/tentacle/tentacle)
Damage d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d6+2/d4+2/d4+2
(add +x/+xd4 where x equals spell slot sacrificed to Arcane Strike)
Sorcerer Casting Level 16th (12th before Martial Arcanist)
Spells Per Day
5/5/5/5/5/4/2
Spells Known
8/4/4/3/1/1/1
Special Qualities: Waterbreathing, Airbreathing, flight (50/good), Lowlight x 4, Darkvision 120 ft, Blindsense 30, Immunity paralysis, Sleep, Frightful Presence, Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration, Swift Abjuration, Arcane Boost, Martial Arcanist, Cold Resistance 5
Weapon and Armor Proficienies: All Simple, All Martial, Foot bow, Light and Medium Armor (can cast in light with no ASF), all shields
Skills: Concentration (max ranks) Knowledge (arcane) (at least 8 ranks)
Languages: Common, Draconic

Add in the a Long sword and you'll get 4 extra attacks from it at the cost of 1 claw attack.

#26

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 11:11:42

:OMG!

HOW MUCH NATURAL ATTACKS!
This build looks good... very good.

I read it right? it can cast 7th level spells?

As the guys stated from my first build:
How can this character prevent himself of being locked (by a thicket of blades) and be able to full-attack often.?

#27

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 11:16:47

Um 6th level spells and only has 1 known each of 4th 5th and 6th. But you'll still have uses for those spells per day from the arcane strike which adds too all natural attacks.

He has flight, and reach of 10 at medium size, other than that look to magic items, or spells, I didn't do a spell list for the build yet.

#28

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 11:19:21

So if i understood right there is a total of +48d4 of extra damage if all attacks hits in a full attack action...

You gave me nice ideas...

#29

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 11:28:07

Yeah that's right and an extra + 4 to hit is untyped too. Combat reflexes and whirlwind could fit in nicely with that reach but I run out of feats in the standard building system.

Of course you could go master Transmorphist from complete arcane, polymorph into a hydra and then add on the krakens tentacle attacks.

Last note, all those Aberrant feats? yeah you do take a -6 to most CHA checks because of them. But I doubt that's a real issue for this kind of build.

#30

aftercrescent

Apr 10, 2008 12:06:36

Just a note, if matuty okay's the urskan, you'll qualify for rapidstrike/imp rapidstrike. that's 7 attacks/round as a full attack dealing 1d8 & 2d6 base damage. That's without any buffs.

If you place the dracon devotee ontop of that, you can end up with something like

Urskan5/Sorcer 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 10/X 2.

Yes it looks like a casting build, but you have at least 7 attacks. With feats, a few spells, and/or magic itmes you can increase the damage as well as the number of attacks. You'll be able to avoid getting hit, and instead of worrying about spells (other than haste, which is awesome) you can channel your spell slots into Arcane Strike to do even more damage.

Best part? You're a bipedal draconic polar bear capable of wearing armor and weilding weapons! :D

#31

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 12:17:33

ack I forgot the stat boosts every four levels. so you still have 5 stat points to distirbute too.

And the raptorian fighter level lets you fly in medium armor and with medium encumbrance.

#32

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 12:24:31

Best part? You're a bipedal draconic polar bear capable of wearing armor and weilding weapons!

Yes, best part indeed hehe :D

What is where is swift blade?
I think is a PrC that let the guy do some miracle with haste as his main tatic right?

#33

aftercrescent

Apr 10, 2008 12:25:41

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327

#34

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 13:05:14

I read it...

Swift blade really made me crazy... but i won't use it this time...
(because your build has it too)

So read the PM and se what you think

#35

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 13:05:25

That PrC is nice... if I drop the last 2 levels of Dragon Heart mage and the abjurant champion, I could take dodge with the fighter level, mobility instead of combat casting, grab a level of barbarian for one of the dragon heart levels, and then take six levels of the swift blade.

And that would net a BAB +17 for 15 HP and take my max spell level down to 4th.

So it would be...
Sorc 4 Fighter 1 Dragonheart mage 2 Stormtalon 2 Dragon Disciple 2 Barbarian 1 Swiftblade 6

And would improve defensive capabilities and offensive capabilities.

DOESN'T WORK needs 3rd level spells before swift blade.

#36

aftercrescent

Apr 10, 2008 13:11:53

I'm not the only one with swiftblade, Archer has it too.

I responded to your PM, as well. Just remember: the class is merely the mechanics behind it, it's how you flavor it that matters. You could easily describe a raging draconic polar bear under a haste affect as some kind of mad foaming bear-like rage...

Flavor =/= Build mechanics.

#37

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 13:18:13

kudos to archer too then.

#38

rodolfomaxi

Apr 10, 2008 13:20:31

Thanks for the tip after...

And to you too Vicen.

There's something close to arcane strike that works with divine spells?

#39

aftercrescent

Apr 10, 2008 13:29:32

not that I know of, but you could ask matuty about a homebrew feat that works the same way ;)

#40

vicen_korel

Apr 10, 2008 13:37:11

I don't know of anything either, by the way that swift blade build won't work with like I posted. You wouldn't get haste before taking the swift blade levels, and that just doesn't work.