Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Snuffulupicus Aug 01, 2014 11:47:00	Hello all me again, I need help now with a level 1-20 planned out beguiler build. And yes Ive read the handbooks from top to bottom but I can't make heads or tails of it. I am weary of constantly being a combat god and my DM has grown tired of the sessions playing out as: party presented with problem, Snuffulupicus smashes whatever or whoever is the most trouble, party mops up whats left. He has gone so far as to offer bonus XP for successfully roleplaying and I intend to exploit the **** out of it for all the bullshit and hate spewed onto my innocent warblade, (which he had the audacity to BAN THE ENTIRE BOOK). So, pull no punches please I intend to send a message with this beguiler, but dont worry I'm not trying to destroy the campaign I just want to be as effective as I can. I mainly need help with feats, I know of Master Manipulator and Force of Personality but not much else maybe leadership but that just seems like a bit of a hassle however it would be nice to have a body guard. I planned to go full 20 beguiler and changeling as race but if there is a more powerful way to go please let me know I have never built anything that relies on charisma/intelligence/diplomacy. Also if you could find a way to boost my DC's through the roof it would be much appreciated. I want combat to be a last resort. I would like to focus mainly on boosting Diplomacy, Bluff, Open Lock, Hide, Move Silently and Escape Artist through the roof and maybe tumble. I also want my enchantments to be near irresistable if possible. Thanks in advance for the help.
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 01, 2014 16:01:14	We have the Gnowhere Gnome stashed away in my sig, which is 1-20 but focuses on stealth and misdirection instead of social cues. It uses whisper gnome, which is much better at stealth than changelings (though changelings are better at basic deception). It will, however, be able to set combat on ITS terms through social skills, enchantments, illusions, and stealth.   If you're okay branching from 1-20 beguiler, you can consider a shadowcraft mage. These guys are impossibly powerful and also very good illusionists, and can be built around a beguiler base with a bit of skill. Also, if possible, consider a one-level dip in Shadow Adept (PGtF), which makes your spells much harder to detect, dispel, or block via SR. (These approaches combine quite well, actually - even if you shadow mimic an evocation spell, it's still Illusion, and gains the benefits of the shadow weave. A basic approach might be Beguiler 6 / Shadow Adept 1 / Shadowcraft Mage 5 / [8 levels of anything, such as Shadowcrafter or Incantrix], but I haven't done any real optimization on this.)   Shadowcraft Mages are incredibly strong once they get Shadow Illusions. That's powerful enough to get the DM to wonder why he's putting restrictions on stuff like the Tome instead of on the true gamebreakers.
#3 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 01, 2014 18:15:40	The generic term for game-disruptingly-strong diplomacy is "Diplomancer", and the usual loadout is something like this. This specific approach is often called the Half-Elf Hippie, but you can crib bits from it pretty easily:   Half-Elf Bard (Soothing Voice substitution level in Races of Destiny) 1 Marshal 1 (Skill Focus: Diplomacy, Motivate Charisma) Warlock 1 (Beguiling Influence) Binder 1 (Naberius) (Remaining levels as you wish; the rest of this post assumes level 4. A common trick is to fit Mindbender 1 in there somewhere, so you can talk past any language barrier (and qualify for Mindsight). Leadership also naturally shows up from time to time.)   Feats to pick: Wanderer's Diplomacy (shuffle the class order around to qualify at 1; I know it's possible but forget which classes get which skills), Master Manipulator, and if all else fails Negotiator. These just add extra options to your Diplomacy. Any other Charisma-centered feat (like Force of Personality) is also worthwhile. Gear is a masterwork Diplomacy tool (i.e. a snazzy outfit) + whatever else you need to boost that skill. I'm NOT adding in +Charisma gear, because you can't afford it at level 4.   If you're not in combat, you use Naberius to hasten a Diplomacy check (i.e. change attitudes in one full-round action rather than 1 minute) without the -10 penalty, and to take 10 on Diplomacy even when threatened. Your Diplomacy mod should be something like 7 ranks + 4 Charisma + 6 Beguiling Influence + 4 Motivate Charisma + 3 Skill focus +6 synergy (from Nobility&Royalty, Sense Motive, and Bluff) +2 tool = +32, so you're hitting 42 without any chance of failure. 42 is enough to make Hostile creatures Friendly, and everything else Helpful.   If you are in combat, you spend a bardic music use to produce a Calm Emotions effect with a DC equal to your Diplomacy check. As RadicalTaoist put it, "The balor has to make a DC 42 Will save or chill." And all of a sudden, you're not in combat anymore - at least for long enough to make a Diplomacy check.   It also helps to have the Epic diplomacy rules around, as you'll hit those DCs pretty soon.   The DM MUST houserule this or be unable to send anything to fight you.         EDIT: You deleted your post as I was replying; this was an answer to a heavy social approach rather than a beguiler one. Though I think you saw how flexible the beguiler / shadowcraft approaches were and withdrew that question?
#4 Snuffulupicus Aug 01, 2014 18:16:19	Can this build work with a changeling? Also how would i tweak that build to make it more diplomatic? Do I just boost my DC's and rely on my charm/enchantment spells?
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 01, 2014 18:21:40	Snuffulupicus wrote:
(Reply to #3) Snuffulupicus	I did I decided to go with pretty much the gnowhere gnome build (we are still using that point buy system for books so its cheaper) and I realized the versatility of being virtually undetectable + still spell+ silent spell+ charm/enchant spells is very potent. I think I will stick with beguiler it seems like a fun class when I get used to the class I may dip into shadowcaster after level 20 but i really want that cloaked casting to overcome SR automatically. One last request can you give me a list of gear to get and what it does? The listing on the showcase is a bit confusing for this newbie.
#7 Snuffulupicus Aug 01, 2014 18:37:51	Also do you know a way around that whole no suicidal commands thing? And what is the best way to boost my DC's through the roof other than maxing out INT and SF/GSF?
#8 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 01, 2014 19:02:59	The showcase only lists basic ability score boosters (i.e. Headband of Intellect, Periapt of Health) and permanent ability score tomes (i.e. Tome of Clear Thought, Manual of Bodily Health). It's left sparse because the rest is subject to DM availability.   There are numerous gear guides out there. For what it's worth, I'm actually working on one (in progress PDF).  For beguilers on top of this, there are items that give +DC to enchantment (Veil of Allure, for instance), but you can also exploit fear. Frighten your targets and their saves take a hit.
#9 New-Shadow Aug 03, 2014 9:48:42	If you're looking to scare people, the Dread Witch PrC from Heroes of Horror also helps.  Not only can you up the fear effects on most people, you can even inflict fear effects on those normally immune to those effects.  It is a 4/5 casting class, however; you lose a CL at the first PrC level.