Help with a Binder/ToB tank - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with a Binder/ToB tank

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
monks_r_banned
Mar 19, 2009 2:31:06 Hey CharOps!

I have a problem I was hoping you could help with. I'm looking to play a tank in an upcoming game. I was hoping to use the vestige Dahlver-Nar as well as incorporate a martial adept (excluding swordsage, their recovery method is stupidly weak.) My problem is every time I try to build the character I end up losing focus and spread him too thin.

So the goal is to use minimal levels of binder and maximum ToB to maximize damage absorption and force enemies to focus on me. Can you help?
#2
jameswilliamogle
Mar 19, 2009 6:35:40 Its tough to fit in ToB and ToM classes, in my experience. I've tried to do similar things, and end up coming up short with my goals. One trick that works well is to take Bloodline levels to boost both your initiator level and your effective Binding level so that your class features keep up a bit. That said, you could try the following.

Crusader 10 / Binder 3 / Knight of Sacred Seal 5 / Bloodline 2

Your EBL is 12, for 2 vestiges, and up to 7th level (with the +2 EBL feat)
Your IL is 16, for up to 8th level maneuvers
You have BAB +17
Great saves

Don't take the classes in that order, but mix them around (always end up with even non-crusader classes before you take another crusader class, though, to maximize selection).

In general, I think you're much better off playing a straight Crusader or Warblade, though. Dahlver-Nar's Shield Self is awesome, no doubt, but its not worth the action at higher levels.
#3
humankyle
Mar 19, 2009 16:04:55 How about Binder 5/ Ur Priest 2/ Tenebrous apostate 5/Ruby knight vindicator 7
Feats probably go
1 something for spellcraft
1 Iron will
3 feat that grants maneuver
4 binder bonus improved binding
6 spell focus evil
9 pick up stance
12 something

Its feat starved in the beginning and needs a 14 intellegence, so depending on your point buy it could work out well.
#4
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Mar 19, 2009 16:34:19
How about Binder 5/ Ur Priest 2/ Tenebrous apostate 5/Ruby knight vindicator 7
Feats probably go
1 something for spellcraft
1 Iron will
3 feat that grants maneuver
4 binder bonus improved binding
6 spell focus evil
9 pick up stance
12 something

Its feat starved in the beginning and needs a 14 intellegence, so depending on your point buy it could work out well.

No need to waste the feat since your build is lacking a level
Binder 5/ Crusader 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Tenebrous Apostate 5/ RKV 7
1. Keeper of Forbidden Lore - Feindish codex 1 (Spellcraft as class skill)
1. Dreadful Wrath - PGtF
3. Iron Will
4. Improved Binding
6. Spell Focus Evil
9. Knowledge Devotion - CC
12. Dark Speech - BOVD, CoR
15. Scion of Sorrow (or Thrall to Demon or Disciple of Darkness depending on your alignment) - CoR
18. Tormented Knight (or Hellbound or Demonsworn Knight depending on your alignment) - CoR
#5
humankyle
Mar 19, 2009 17:54:16 Ooo. . . I was missing a level, I'd definitely skip the above feats and go for Divine Metamagic quicken though considering you get a free turn one every 5 rounds. At the very least a feat is needed to capitalize on that in a tankish way.

Also consider the cost benefits of crusader later for higher level maneuvers, or crusader first for skill points and something to do while you are waiting for your bind to recharge. They are probably about equal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 monks_r_banned Mar 19, 2009 2:31:06	Hey CharOps! I have a problem I was hoping you could help with. I'm looking to play a tank in an upcoming game. I was hoping to use the vestige Dahlver-Nar as well as incorporate a martial adept (excluding swordsage, their recovery method is stupidly weak.) My problem is every time I try to build the character I end up losing focus and spread him too thin. So the goal is to use minimal levels of binder and maximum ToB to maximize damage absorption and force enemies to focus on me. Can you help?
#2 jameswilliamogle Mar 19, 2009 6:35:40	Its tough to fit in ToB and ToM classes, in my experience. I've tried to do similar things, and end up coming up short with my goals. One trick that works well is to take Bloodline levels to boost both your initiator level and your effective Binding level so that your class features keep up a bit. That said, you could try the following. Crusader 10 / Binder 3 / Knight of Sacred Seal 5 / Bloodline 2 Your EBL is 12, for 2 vestiges, and up to 7th level (with the +2 EBL feat) Your IL is 16, for up to 8th level maneuvers You have BAB +17 Great saves Don't take the classes in that order, but mix them around (always end up with even non-crusader classes before you take another crusader class, though, to maximize selection). In general, I think you're much better off playing a straight Crusader or Warblade, though. Dahlver-Nar's Shield Self is awesome, no doubt, but its not worth the action at higher levels.
#3 humankyle Mar 19, 2009 16:04:55	How about Binder 5/ Ur Priest 2/ Tenebrous apostate 5/Ruby knight vindicator 7 Feats probably go 1 something for spellcraft 1 Iron will 3 feat that grants maneuver 4 binder bonus improved binding 6 spell focus evil 9 pick up stance 12 something Its feat starved in the beginning and needs a 14 intellegence, so depending on your point buy it could work out well.
#4 gorfnad_the_shiznit Mar 19, 2009 16:34:19	How about Binder 5/ Ur Priest 2/ Tenebrous apostate 5/Ruby knight vindicator 7 Feats probably go 1 something for spellcraft 1 Iron will 3 feat that grants maneuver 4 binder bonus improved binding 6 spell focus evil 9 pick up stance 12 something Its feat starved in the beginning and needs a 14 intellegence, so depending on your point buy it could work out well. No need to waste the feat since your build is lacking a level Binder 5/ Crusader 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Tenebrous Apostate 5/ RKV 7 1. Keeper of Forbidden Lore - Feindish codex 1 (Spellcraft as class skill) 1. Dreadful Wrath - PGtF 3. Iron Will 4. Improved Binding 6. Spell Focus Evil 9. Knowledge Devotion - CC 12. Dark Speech - BOVD, CoR 15. Scion of Sorrow (or Thrall to Demon or Disciple of Darkness depending on your alignment) - CoR 18. Tormented Knight (or Hellbound or Demonsworn Knight depending on your alignment) - CoR
#5 humankyle Mar 19, 2009 17:54:16	Ooo. . . I was missing a level, I'd definitely skip the above feats and go for Divine Metamagic quicken though considering you get a free turn one every 5 rounds. At the very least a feat is needed to capitalize on that in a tankish way. Also consider the cost benefits of crusader later for higher level maneuvers, or crusader first for skill points and something to do while you are waiting for your bind to recharge. They are probably about equal.