Help with a Dwarven Fighter build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with a Dwarven Fighter build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
karui_kage
Jun 01, 2009 14:28:08 Helping a player of mine (never really played before) make a Dwarven Fighter for our Rise of the Runelords game.

Some background. Level 7, 23,500 gp to start, using Pathfinder RPG Beta rules until the final rules come out in August.

This means that a full Fighter is not that bad of a class. His total abilities are:

4 bonus Fighter feats (1, 2, 4, 6)
4 normal feats (1, 3, 5, 7)
Weapon Training in Axes (+1 to hit and damage with all axes, new Fighter ability)
Armor Training +2 (+2 to AC, +2 to max dex bonus, 2 less ACP with all armors, new Fighter ability)
Bravery +2 (+2 to saves vs. fear, new Fighter ability)

Anyways, I am trying to figure out some other feats to help flesh him out. I wanted to suggest Melee Weapon Supremacy (from PHB2), but that requires a BAB of +8. Right now I've given him:

STR - 16 (18 with +2 belt)
DEX - 12
CON - 18
INT - 10
WIS - 14
CHA - 7

(Dwarves get a +2 wisdom, +2 con, -2 charisma with pathfinder)

1st - Weapon Focus (D. Waraxe)
F1st - Toughness (gives +3 hp and +1 hp/level with Pathfinder)
F2nd - Shield Specialization (Heavy) (from PHB2, +1 shield bonus)
3rd - Need Feat
F4th - Weapon Spec. (D. Waraxe)
5th - Battle Hardened (from Races of Stone, +2 Initiative, +4 saves vs. fear)
F6th - Need Feat
7th - Need Feat

So right now I need three feats. I was thinking Iron Will to boost the Will save anymore so charms and such were much less a worry, but I am unsure.

Any ideas?

Edit:
Sheet so far. http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=129492
#2
jgumbyrx
Jun 01, 2009 15:16:33 for saves, i'd probably just get an item for now.

as for feats, if d&d PHB2 is available:
since he's got shield spec., why not get imp. shield bash and agile shield fighting.
#3
karui_kage
Jun 01, 2009 15:27:14 I was pondering this tree of feats, from the Beta:

Improved Shield Bash
Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: When you perform a shield bash, you may still apply the shield's shield bonus to your AC.
Normal: Without this feat, a character that performs a shield bash loses the shield's shield bonus to AC until his next turn.

Shield Slam
Prerequisite: Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6
Benefit: Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see the Combat chapter). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance.

Shield Master
Prerequisite: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's shield bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was an enhancement bonus.

The last one seems a bit odd to understand. There is this part: "An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectives of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right." So does Shield Master allow, say, a +2 Heavy Steel Shield to use that +2 as a bonus to attack/damage, or is it a +4 (the total shield bonus)? Or is it a +2 (the shield bonus without enchantment)? Confusing.
#4
karui_kage
Jun 01, 2009 15:36:23 Actually, a lot of those feats are suspected to get the nerf hammer in the final version, so I may avoid them.

So what exactly is the benefit of Agile Shield Fighter? It just looks like Two-Weapon Fighting, only specifically for the Shield Bash.
#5
jgumbyrx
Jun 01, 2009 15:56:40
Actually, a lot of those feats are suspected to get the nerf hammer in the final version, so I may avoid them.

So what exactly is the benefit of Agile Shield Fighter? It just looks like Two-Weapon Fighting, only specifically for the Shield Bash.

pretty much. the thing is, if wielding a heavy shield, you still only take the 2-hand penalties as if it were a light weapon -- which, to me, is huge. It's like getting 2WF and over-sized-2WF all in one feat. I like any chance to add more damage potential to a tank.
the only down-side is that if you wanted to continue a 2-wpn style, you would still need to go back and get 2-wpn-fighting (but this appears to be a tank, not a 2-weapon guy).

Shield Ward is also a good feat for any shield-tank.
#6
karui_kage
Jun 01, 2009 16:12:28 So assuming a +1 Bashing Heavy Steel Shield (treated as two size categories larger, adds +1 enchantment bonus to attack/damage), will Shield Spikes increase the size category by another one? IE: Do they stack?

So:

Heavy Steel Shield - 1d4
Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing - 1d8
Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing + Spikes - 2d6

That right?
#7
Balthanon
Jun 01, 2009 18:09:13
So assuming a +1 Bashing Heavy Steel Shield (treated as two size categories larger, adds +1 enchantment bonus to attack/damage), will Shield Spikes increase the size category by another one? IE: Do they stack?

So:

Heavy Steel Shield - 1d4
Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing - 1d8
Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing + Spikes - 2d6

That right?

That is correct.

Also, I believe that Shield Mastery feat was intended to allow you to use defensive enhancement bonuses as attack bonuses as well. Which is very nice on its own, since that gives you a +5 weapon for 25k.
#8
karui_kage
Jun 01, 2009 18:47:22 There's a lot of argument about Shield Mastery on the Paizo boards. One half thinks that it means you get the full 'Shield' bonus to attacks and damage. With a +5 Heavy Steel Shield, that'd be +7.

Others argue it's just meant for the 'base' Shield bonus, or +2 to attack/damage with a heavy steel shield.

The latter makes more sense from a balance standpoint. Either way I ignored the feat, since it's sure to be revised in a couple months with the final version.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 karui_kage Jun 01, 2009 14:28:08	Helping a player of mine (never really played before) make a Dwarven Fighter for our Rise of the Runelords game. Some background. Level 7, 23,500 gp to start, using Pathfinder RPG Beta rules until the final rules come out in August. This means that a full Fighter is not that bad of a class. His total abilities are: 4 bonus Fighter feats (1, 2, 4, 6) 4 normal feats (1, 3, 5, 7) Weapon Training in Axes (+1 to hit and damage with all axes, new Fighter ability) Armor Training +2 (+2 to AC, +2 to max dex bonus, 2 less ACP with all armors, new Fighter ability) Bravery +2 (+2 to saves vs. fear, new Fighter ability) Anyways, I am trying to figure out some other feats to help flesh him out. I wanted to suggest Melee Weapon Supremacy (from PHB2), but that requires a BAB of +8. Right now I've given him: STR - 16 (18 with +2 belt) DEX - 12 CON - 18 INT - 10 WIS - 14 CHA - 7 (Dwarves get a +2 wisdom, +2 con, -2 charisma with pathfinder) 1st - Weapon Focus (D. Waraxe) F1st - Toughness (gives +3 hp and +1 hp/level with Pathfinder) F2nd - Shield Specialization (Heavy) (from PHB2, +1 shield bonus) 3rd - Need Feat F4th - Weapon Spec. (D. Waraxe) 5th - Battle Hardened (from Races of Stone, +2 Initiative, +4 saves vs. fear) F6th - Need Feat 7th - Need Feat So right now I need three feats. I was thinking Iron Will to boost the Will save anymore so charms and such were much less a worry, but I am unsure. Any ideas? Edit: Sheet so far. http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=129492
#2 jgumbyrx Jun 01, 2009 15:16:33	for saves, i'd probably just get an item for now. as for feats, if d&d PHB2 is available: since he's got shield spec., why not get imp. shield bash and agile shield fighting.
#3 karui_kage Jun 01, 2009 15:27:14	I was pondering this tree of feats, from the Beta: Improved Shield Bash Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency. Benefit: When you perform a shield bash, you may still apply the shield's shield bonus to your AC. Normal: Without this feat, a character that performs a shield bash loses the shield's shield bonus to AC until his next turn. Shield Slam Prerequisite: Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6 Benefit: Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see the Combat chapter). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. Shield Master Prerequisite: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11. Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's shield bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was an enhancement bonus. The last one seems a bit odd to understand. There is this part: "An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectives of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right." So does Shield Master allow, say, a +2 Heavy Steel Shield to use that +2 as a bonus to attack/damage, or is it a +4 (the total shield bonus)? Or is it a +2 (the shield bonus without enchantment)? Confusing.
#4 karui_kage Jun 01, 2009 15:36:23	Actually, a lot of those feats are suspected to get the nerf hammer in the final version, so I may avoid them. So what exactly is the benefit of Agile Shield Fighter? It just looks like Two-Weapon Fighting, only specifically for the Shield Bash.
#5 jgumbyrx Jun 01, 2009 15:56:40	Actually, a lot of those feats are suspected to get the nerf hammer in the final version, so I may avoid them. So what exactly is the benefit of Agile Shield Fighter? It just looks like Two-Weapon Fighting, only specifically for the Shield Bash. pretty much. the thing is, if wielding a heavy shield, you still only take the 2-hand penalties as if it were a light weapon -- which, to me, is huge. It's like getting 2WF and over-sized-2WF all in one feat. I like any chance to add more damage potential to a tank. the only down-side is that if you wanted to continue a 2-wpn style, you would still need to go back and get 2-wpn-fighting (but this appears to be a tank, not a 2-weapon guy). Shield Ward is also a good feat for any shield-tank.
#6 karui_kage Jun 01, 2009 16:12:28	So assuming a +1 Bashing Heavy Steel Shield (treated as two size categories larger, adds +1 enchantment bonus to attack/damage), will Shield Spikes increase the size category by another one? IE: Do they stack? So: Heavy Steel Shield - 1d4 Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing - 1d8 Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing + Spikes - 2d6 That right?
#7 Balthanon Jun 01, 2009 18:09:13	So assuming a +1 Bashing Heavy Steel Shield (treated as two size categories larger, adds +1 enchantment bonus to attack/damage), will Shield Spikes increase the size category by another one? IE: Do they stack? So: Heavy Steel Shield - 1d4 Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing - 1d8 Heavy Steel Shield + Bashing + Spikes - 2d6 That right? That is correct. Also, I believe that Shield Mastery feat was intended to allow you to use defensive enhancement bonuses as attack bonuses as well. Which is very nice on its own, since that gives you a +5 weapon for 25k.
#8 karui_kage Jun 01, 2009 18:47:22	There's a lot of argument about Shield Mastery on the Paizo boards. One half thinks that it means you get the full 'Shield' bonus to attacks and damage. With a +5 Heavy Steel Shield, that'd be +7. Others argue it's just meant for the 'base' Shield bonus, or +2 to attack/damage with a heavy steel shield. The latter makes more sense from a balance standpoint. Either way I ignored the feat, since it's sure to be revised in a couple months with the final version.