Help with a Fighter's AC - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with a Fighter's AC

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
stoupak
May 15, 2008 22:46:20 Hey, Looking for some input on how to give my fighter a great AC as early into a build as possible. I've played the two handed big damage type, but now I'd like to try to wear monsters down by having them have trouble hitting me. Are there any useful feats, or anything I could use? My DM isn't a big fan of splat books, and we're usually kept to the Core and Complete. Any help would be awesome.

P.S. My DM will allow some things from other books, if they dont seem to be overpowered.

Cheers
#2
rodolfomaxi
May 15, 2008 23:24:14 HUMAN KNIGHT(PHB2) + TOWER SHIELD
+ EXOTIC ARMOR FROM RACES OF STONE
+ A DRUID A CLERIC AND A WIZARD IN THE PARTY = BIG AC
(probably just the last one is enough:D )

Wanna a tip friend?

Edit this post right or the guys here in Char Op will punch you in the face...then eat the pieces.:D

Look for the rules about posting in the forum...
They didn't help you yet because you did a poor job at formating.
#3
andyjames
May 15, 2008 23:26:26 Races of Stone is what you need to look at for a high AC build utilising heavy armour.

Alternatively, you can do it with no armour using a gish and Polymorph+Paragnostic Apostle+ForceMage+Abjurant Champion shenannigans.

Feats-wise: Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise.
#4
blargney_the_second
May 16, 2008 1:12:21 I recommend crusader. If you aren't a significant threat, high AC is mostly pointless. They'll just ignore you and go after easier targets that are actual threats.

The core of it is Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target, and Midnight Dodge. Elusive Target with two Dodge buddies flanking you is hilarious and quite effective. If you can wrangle the spare feats to get Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, they'll synergize quite nicely with Elusive Target and a high AC build.

Basically you use your move action to get to the spot where you'll be most useful. If they hit you on the AoO, it charges up your delayed damage pool. If they miss, you get to make a free trip attempt. If you can't take crusader, then Karmic Strike makes a passable alternative.
-blarg
#5
dwarvensparten
May 16, 2008 3:40:28 Two-Weapon Fighting,Improved Shield Bash,Over-sized Two-Weapon Fighting. Using this feat combo you can use a heavy shield as a weapon and still get the AC bonus. Slap on Bashing to the shield and have fun smacking things around,better AC,and damage output. And for high ac in armor Races of Stone is indeed the pick of the litter. Knight+Deepwarden is fun times.
#6
ieniemienie
May 16, 2008 4:45:28 heavy Armor Optimization, Improved Heavy armor Optimization, Shield ward, Shield Specilaization (PHBII) are all AC increasing feats
#7
runedk
May 16, 2008 5:26:53 If you maximize constitution you could go Fist of the Forest 1 / Deepwarden 2 for 2xCon to AC @ lvl 7. Here is a build I am working on.

//Rune
#8
dawnbringer
May 16, 2008 6:40:37 No, you don't need races of stone. Races of stone exotic armour is crap. You need planar handbook, and the armour Mechanus Gear. Mechanus gear gives +10 armour, and unlike races of stone armour, does not require exotic armour proficiency.

I will give credit to one exotic armour in races of stone tho, and thats the extreme shield. Make a +1 mithril nimble extreme shield, and you have a +4 armour shield (normally +3 non magically) that you can wield without being proficient.

Also of great use is heavy armour optimisation and greater heavy armour optimsation to turn that +10 mechanus gear into a +12 mechanus gear with 3 less armour check penalty. If you make the mechanus gear nimble, it also allows +1 dex bonus and decreases the armour check penalty by another 2.
#9
dawnbringer
May 16, 2008 6:42:32
Two-Weapon Fighting,Improved Shield Bash,Over-sized Two-Weapon Fighting. Using this feat combo you can use a heavy shield as a weapon and still get the AC bonus. Slap on Bashing to the shield and have fun smacking things around,better AC,and damage output. And for high ac in armor Races of Stone is indeed the pick of the litter. Knight+Deepwarden is fun times.

Or, better is improved shield bash and agile shield fighter. Freeing up 2 feats instead of wasting them on two weapon fighting and oversized two weapon fighting.
#10
Oha
May 16, 2008 7:38:39 Hey guy, please post some information.

Here are some small advices without having any information.

If you have a Druid, let him cast Barkskin on you for natural armor boost.

If there is a Cleric in your group, let him cast Shield of Faith on you for shield bonus.

If you are fighting against a specific kind of alignment ( for example "evil") let someone cast Protection from Evil" on you.

This 3 are easy to have and if you wear a Full Plate you could have an AC of 25 ( with at least 12 Dexterity) at low levels ( Barkskin and Shield of Faith scale up with higher levels).
#11
andyjames
May 16, 2008 7:57:36
Hey guy, please post some information.

Here are some small advices without having any information.

If you have a Druid, let him cast Barkskin on you for natural armor boost.

If there is a Cleric in your group, let him cast Shield of Faith on you for shield bonus.

If you are fighting against a specific kind of alignment ( for example "evil") let someone cast Protection from Evil" on you.

This 3 are easy to have and if you wear a Full Plate you could have an AC of 25 ( with at least 12 Dexterity) at low levels ( Barkskin and Shield of Faith scale up with higher levels).

All we have given him IS information.

Shield of Faith is a deflection bonus, which does not stack with Protection from Evil.

Full Plate is not affordable until at least level 3, if not higher.
#12
runedk
May 16, 2008 8:32:06
heavy Armor Optimization, Improved Heavy armor Optimization, Shield ward, Shield Specilaization (PHBII) are all AC increasing feats

Heavy Armor optimization is level 4+. He will regret spending a feat on 1 point of AC. Greater Heavy Armor Optimizatoin is lvl 8+. This is just as bad.

Both feats only count for heavy armor, so it can't be used with mithral for a higher maximum dex bonus.

And as AndyJames pointed out Full Plate (and Mechanus gear) comes at a hefty price. If you're allowed to blow >50% of your wealth on one item, you could buy a full plate at lvl 3.

Consider templates as Mineral Warrior, Saint (BoED) or Feral (SS).

Also read thrugh the X stat to Y bonus thread... look out for Bonus: AC

//Rune
#13
stoupak
May 19, 2008 11:48:35 Thanks for the Reply guys,

Sorry it took me so long to respond, I was out of town for a few days.

Yeah, like I said I've played the big damage 2 handed sword types, just looking for something that isn't typical.

Is becoming proficient in attacking with a shield viable? I mean, the fighter still has to do SOME damage...
#14
Wyvernhand
May 19, 2008 12:12:06 Short answer....No

Long answer...NNNNNnnnnoooooooooo

Longer answer:

In order to do damage, more attacks/round isn't enough. You need a source of damage behind those attacks. Without a source of damage, it doesn't really matter how many attacks you make, you probably won't even punch through DR. The most common sources of damage are 2handed Power Attack and its various multipliers and shananagans (Leap Attack and friends), and sneak attack. Other sources of damage are possible, just not as common. Static damage bonuses such as stat to damage (see Swashbuckler or Champion of Correlion), feats like Knowledge Devotion, Holy Warrior, or Arcane Strike, or things like Bard Song/Dragonfire Inspiration.

So, the problem with being a fighter attacking with a shield is the fact that a shield can only be wielded 1handed, thus negating PA and 1.5x str, you are a fighter so you probably don't have sneak attack, and its usually bad to rely on having a bard around, consious, and making noise as your primary source of damage (unless you ARE the bard).

This can be changed if you change your build out of straight fighter into something like a swashbuckler/rogue/Champion/Swordsage with Daring Outlaw that bashes people with a buckler, but then you are almost better off just stabbing them. Same thing with most gish concepts and even cleric builds. Sorry man, the mechanics of beating someone with a shield are kind of against you.
#15
stoupak
May 21, 2008 9:33:11
Short answer....No

Long answer...NNNNNnnnnoooooooooo

Sorry man, the mechanics of beating someone with a shield are kind of against you.

Yeah... I suppose I should just stick to my heavy damage ways...

I just have this image of a lone dwarf standing in a corner slowly cutting down 15 baddies one by one....
#16
gaffer
May 22, 2008 14:00:38 Until the Wizard behind those mooks casts a spell at you, anyways.
#17
curtis_ownby
May 22, 2008 14:50:49 Martial Adept is the way to go if you wish to still do damage. Now use your feats to get you AC up. As for armor if you can have at least a 16 in Dex go with light armor. Chain Shirt, Dastana, Heavy Shield, and a 16 Dex will give you a 20 AC and can be done at first level. This is the way I like to get a high AC. Now if you have a wis of 12 or higher take a two level dip in Swordsage for level 7 & 8. Next at level 9 take a level of Duskblade and the feat Practiced spellcaster to get the most out of it. Now take at least 4 levels of The Dragon Disciple.

1. Warblade AC 20
2. Warblade
3. Warblade
4. Fighter
5. Fighter
6. Warblade
7. Swordsage
8. Swordsage Add Wis to AC
9. Duskblade
10. Dragon Disciple Natural Armor +1
11. Dragon Disciple
14. Dragon Disciple
15. Dragon Disciple Natural Armor +2 If you have your armor and shield maxed out your AC will be around 36 easy without the use of feat.

This is just what I put to gather on the spot, so you could make it a lot better.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 stoupak May 15, 2008 22:46:20	Hey, Looking for some input on how to give my fighter a great AC as early into a build as possible. I've played the two handed big damage type, but now I'd like to try to wear monsters down by having them have trouble hitting me. Are there any useful feats, or anything I could use? My DM isn't a big fan of splat books, and we're usually kept to the Core and Complete. Any help would be awesome. P.S. My DM will allow some things from other books, if they dont seem to be overpowered. Cheers
#2 rodolfomaxi May 15, 2008 23:24:14	HUMAN KNIGHT(PHB2) + TOWER SHIELD + EXOTIC ARMOR FROM RACES OF STONE + A DRUID A CLERIC AND A WIZARD IN THE PARTY = BIG AC (probably just the last one is enough:D ) Wanna a tip friend? Edit this post right or the guys here in Char Op will punch you in the face...then eat the pieces.:D Look for the rules about posting in the forum... They didn't help you yet because you did a poor job at formating.
#3 andyjames May 15, 2008 23:26:26	Races of Stone is what you need to look at for a high AC build utilising heavy armour. Alternatively, you can do it with no armour using a gish and Polymorph+Paragnostic Apostle+ForceMage+Abjurant Champion shenannigans. Feats-wise: Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise.
#4 blargney_the_second May 16, 2008 1:12:21	I recommend crusader. If you aren't a significant threat, high AC is mostly pointless. They'll just ignore you and go after easier targets that are actual threats. The core of it is Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target, and Midnight Dodge. Elusive Target with two Dodge buddies flanking you is hilarious and quite effective. If you can wrangle the spare feats to get Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, they'll synergize quite nicely with Elusive Target and a high AC build. Basically you use your move action to get to the spot where you'll be most useful. If they hit you on the AoO, it charges up your delayed damage pool. If they miss, you get to make a free trip attempt. If you can't take crusader, then Karmic Strike makes a passable alternative. -blarg
#5 dwarvensparten May 16, 2008 3:40:28	Two-Weapon Fighting,Improved Shield Bash,Over-sized Two-Weapon Fighting. Using this feat combo you can use a heavy shield as a weapon and still get the AC bonus. Slap on Bashing to the shield and have fun smacking things around,better AC,and damage output. And for high ac in armor Races of Stone is indeed the pick of the litter. Knight+Deepwarden is fun times.
#6 ieniemienie May 16, 2008 4:45:28	heavy Armor Optimization, Improved Heavy armor Optimization, Shield ward, Shield Specilaization (PHBII) are all AC increasing feats
#7 runedk May 16, 2008 5:26:53	If you maximize constitution you could go Fist of the Forest 1 / Deepwarden 2 for 2xCon to AC @ lvl 7. Here is a build I am working on. //Rune
#8 dawnbringer May 16, 2008 6:40:37	No, you don't need races of stone. Races of stone exotic armour is crap. You need planar handbook, and the armour Mechanus Gear. Mechanus gear gives +10 armour, and unlike races of stone armour, does not require exotic armour proficiency. I will give credit to one exotic armour in races of stone tho, and thats the extreme shield. Make a +1 mithril nimble extreme shield, and you have a +4 armour shield (normally +3 non magically) that you can wield without being proficient. Also of great use is heavy armour optimisation and greater heavy armour optimsation to turn that +10 mechanus gear into a +12 mechanus gear with 3 less armour check penalty. If you make the mechanus gear nimble, it also allows +1 dex bonus and decreases the armour check penalty by another 2.
#9 dawnbringer May 16, 2008 6:42:32	Two-Weapon Fighting,Improved Shield Bash,Over-sized Two-Weapon Fighting. Using this feat combo you can use a heavy shield as a weapon and still get the AC bonus. Slap on Bashing to the shield and have fun smacking things around,better AC,and damage output. And for high ac in armor Races of Stone is indeed the pick of the litter. Knight+Deepwarden is fun times. Or, better is improved shield bash and agile shield fighter. Freeing up 2 feats instead of wasting them on two weapon fighting and oversized two weapon fighting.
#10 Oha May 16, 2008 7:38:39	Hey guy, please post some information. Here are some small advices without having any information. If you have a Druid, let him cast Barkskin on you for natural armor boost. If there is a Cleric in your group, let him cast Shield of Faith on you for shield bonus. If you are fighting against a specific kind of alignment ( for example "evil") let someone cast Protection from Evil" on you. This 3 are easy to have and if you wear a Full Plate you could have an AC of 25 ( with at least 12 Dexterity) at low levels ( Barkskin and Shield of Faith scale up with higher levels).
#11 andyjames May 16, 2008 7:57:36	Hey guy, please post some information. Here are some small advices without having any information. If you have a Druid, let him cast Barkskin on you for natural armor boost. If there is a Cleric in your group, let him cast Shield of Faith on you for shield bonus. If you are fighting against a specific kind of alignment ( for example "evil") let someone cast Protection from Evil" on you. This 3 are easy to have and if you wear a Full Plate you could have an AC of 25 ( with at least 12 Dexterity) at low levels ( Barkskin and Shield of Faith scale up with higher levels). All we have given him IS information. Shield of Faith is a deflection bonus, which does not stack with Protection from Evil. Full Plate is not affordable until at least level 3, if not higher.
#12 runedk May 16, 2008 8:32:06	heavy Armor Optimization, Improved Heavy armor Optimization, Shield ward, Shield Specilaization (PHBII) are all AC increasing feats Heavy Armor optimization is level 4+. He will regret spending a feat on 1 point of AC. Greater Heavy Armor Optimizatoin is lvl 8+. This is just as bad. Both feats only count for heavy armor, so it can't be used with mithral for a higher maximum dex bonus. And as AndyJames pointed out Full Plate (and Mechanus gear) comes at a hefty price. If you're allowed to blow >50% of your wealth on one item, you could buy a full plate at lvl 3. Consider templates as Mineral Warrior, Saint (BoED) or Feral (SS). Also read thrugh the X stat to Y bonus thread... look out for Bonus: AC //Rune
#13 stoupak May 19, 2008 11:48:35	Thanks for the Reply guys, Sorry it took me so long to respond, I was out of town for a few days. Yeah, like I said I've played the big damage 2 handed sword types, just looking for something that isn't typical. Is becoming proficient in attacking with a shield viable? I mean, the fighter still has to do SOME damage...
#14 Wyvernhand May 19, 2008 12:12:06	Short answer....No Long answer...NNNNNnnnnoooooooooo Longer answer: In order to do damage, more attacks/round isn't enough. You need a source of damage behind those attacks. Without a source of damage, it doesn't really matter how many attacks you make, you probably won't even punch through DR. The most common sources of damage are 2handed Power Attack and its various multipliers and shananagans (Leap Attack and friends), and sneak attack. Other sources of damage are possible, just not as common. Static damage bonuses such as stat to damage (see Swashbuckler or Champion of Correlion), feats like Knowledge Devotion, Holy Warrior, or Arcane Strike, or things like Bard Song/Dragonfire Inspiration. So, the problem with being a fighter attacking with a shield is the fact that a shield can only be wielded 1handed, thus negating PA and 1.5x str, you are a fighter so you probably don't have sneak attack, and its usually bad to rely on having a bard around, consious, and making noise as your primary source of damage (unless you ARE the bard). This can be changed if you change your build out of straight fighter into something like a swashbuckler/rogue/Champion/Swordsage with Daring Outlaw that bashes people with a buckler, but then you are almost better off just stabbing them. Same thing with most gish concepts and even cleric builds. Sorry man, the mechanics of beating someone with a shield are kind of against you.
#15 stoupak May 21, 2008 9:33:11	Short answer....No Long answer...NNNNNnnnnoooooooooo Sorry man, the mechanics of beating someone with a shield are kind of against you. Yeah... I suppose I should just stick to my heavy damage ways... I just have this image of a lone dwarf standing in a corner slowly cutting down 15 baddies one by one....
#16 gaffer May 22, 2008 14:00:38	Until the Wizard behind those mooks casts a spell at you, anyways.
#17 curtis_ownby May 22, 2008 14:50:49	Martial Adept is the way to go if you wish to still do damage. Now use your feats to get you AC up. As for armor if you can have at least a 16 in Dex go with light armor. Chain Shirt, Dastana, Heavy Shield, and a 16 Dex will give you a 20 AC and can be done at first level. This is the way I like to get a high AC. Now if you have a wis of 12 or higher take a two level dip in Swordsage for level 7 & 8. Next at level 9 take a level of Duskblade and the feat Practiced spellcaster to get the most out of it. Now take at least 4 levels of The Dragon Disciple. 1. Warblade AC 20 2. Warblade 3. Warblade 4. Fighter 5. Fighter 6. Warblade 7. Swordsage 8. Swordsage Add Wis to AC 9. Duskblade 10. Dragon Disciple Natural Armor +1 11. Dragon Disciple 14. Dragon Disciple 15. Dragon Disciple Natural Armor +2 If you have your armor and shield maxed out your AC will be around 36 easy without the use of feat. This is just what I put to gather on the spot, so you could make it a lot better.