Help with a fire elf and dwarf rogue? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with a fire elf and dwarf rogue?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zeldafan
Feb 27, 2011 3:53:37 So, I'm pretty sucky when it comes to character builds. I'm more of a roleplayer, so when stats and systems come into play, I flounder. I've been playing a basic 3.5 campaign and just recruited another in who hasn't played before. Since my character is already struggling to compete with the others (who are pretty optimized and have been playing for awhile), I need help on two different builds, one for my friend, and advice for my current one.

Oh, and DM allows all books and has very house rules. The campaign we are playing is mostly underground stuff with a wide range of enemies, though invisible monsters have been appearing pretty often of late. Characters now start off at level 12 and have 88000gp. There's currently a human bard, Lynch magic-user of some sort, a celestrial being, and a DM controlled kender who ussually doesn't do anything in battles except maybe throw out a potion.

I'll start on my friend's first. She wants to be an elven fire mage of some sort with firey hair. Basically, she wants to be a blaster-type. The firey hair part the DM is making up rules for, so don't worry too much about that (except maybe when cloth armor comes into play and such).

The build I've thought of is a Sorcerer 6, Elemental Savant 6 (from Complete Arcane). So far her items are the regalia of the pheonix set (from Magic Item Compendium), Bracers of armor, Ring of Protection, and some random potions, mostly healing. No idea on her spells except a few fire spells she liked and a few I thought would help her AC and HP. Also no clue on feats or skills. I think her AC is about 16 and her HP maybe 50ish? So, uh, help!

I'm way unexpeirenced with any sort of magic user, so I have no clue if this is a good build or not. Suggestions? Ideas? Entirely pre-made builds so I can just give her that and be over with this? (The last one would be great :P )

Now, for my character. He's a Dwarven rogue 7, Dungeon Delver 5. His skills are pretty spread out, but pretty strong in anything that isn't charisma based. His main weapon is a wrist crossbow (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Crossbow,_Wrist_(3.5e_Equipment)), his others are a +2 keen rapier and +2 distance sling. His major items are some stun nuts, a Rod of Ropes (Complete Scoundrel) and a cloak of invisibility.
21 AC and 96 HP and 8 BAB. 16 STR, 20 DEX, 17 CON, 15 INT, 11 WIS, 9 CHA. Uh, think that sums up the important parts. Oh, and he's semi-possessed by a snake demon, who so far only gives him Undetectable lie, which seems like it'd be amazing, but we don't run into too many people in the campaign, so it hasn't been too great.

My DM ussually throws 30+AC monsters at us and my highest attack is 15. Without any other buffs at the time, I ussually never hit.
When I do hit, it's ussually for maybe 10 damage, which compared to the 20s or 30s the others ussually slam out and the 300+HP monsters, isn't that useful. The last time I got a sneak attack and critted, it did only about 20-30 damage.
Finally, the DM has been throwing things like plant monsters, too large to reach vitals monsters, or robots, so my 4d6 sneak attack can't be used. So I try attacking like normal and when that fails, start looking through my skills like mad for anything that could be used creatively, like use rope.

Basically my problem with him is is low attack, low damage, and what to do against enemies I can't sneak attack. He's been in the campaign for awhile, so I can't really change him much aside from buying stuff or waiting to my next levels. But any ideas of what to get to make him better would be great!

Sorry for this huge post, but any help you can give would be great! Thanks!

#2
sleepyshadow
Feb 27, 2011 11:15:20 Alright, let's see if I can help you out here.

For starters, let's work with your rogue. We need to get your BAB up, as well as let you deal more damage. If you could list the feats that you have right now, that would certainly help. For now, I'll work with what I've got.

Rogue 7/Dungeon Delver 5/Shadow Dancer 1/Fighter 2/Ghost Faced Killer 5

Feats (Ones to take unless you have them already): Improved Initiative, Power Attack [Fighter], Improved Toughness [Fighter], Craven.

The 1-level dip into Shadow Dancer is for Hide in Plain Sight, which will allow you to gain a lot more sneak attacks. Ghost-Faced Killer has Ghost Step (self-invisibility), Sudden Strike (similar to sneak attack), and full BAB to help you hit them. Lastly, the Craven feat adds your character level to sneak attack damage.

Now for your Sorceress friend:

Fire Elf (Unearthed Arcana)
Wizard 5/Elemental Savant 3/Fatespinner 4/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Elemental Savant 1

Feats: Empower Spell, Energy Substitution (Fire), Spell Focus (Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration), Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Maximize Spell, Sculpt Spell

Going Wizard over Sorcerer is a better choice for the wider range of spells they can have, in addition to faster spell progression. Elemental Savant offers a few resistances, as well as aiding in overcoming SR. Fatespinner can use the "spin points" to increase the difficulty of her spell DCs, as well as help keep her alive with a timely reroll for a botched save or something of the ilk. Lastly, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil offers her huge defensive capabilities, plus the veils can offer some significant offensive capabilities as well if used appropriately.
#3
Maat_Mons
Feb 27, 2011 13:39:24
It's not the most powerful option, but the new guy might like a binder 1 (Tome of Magic) / warlock 8 (Complete Arcane) / hellfire warlock 3 (Fiendish Codex II).

He's effectively a warlock 11 for invocations, so his base eldritch blast damage is 6d6. Hellfire warlock gives him the ability to add +6d6 damage to his eldritch blast by taking a point of constitution damage. Binder gives him the ability to heal a point of damage in each ability score every round (Naberius), so he can take that point of constitution damage every round without worry. A greater chasuble of fell power (Complete Arcane) costs 18,000 gp and adds +2d6 to eldritch blast damage.

The net effect is he can deal 14d6 hellfire damage (which ignores resistance and immunity to fire damage) at will as a 30-foot cone (eldritch cone), 250-foot ray (eldritch spear), pair of melee touch attacks (eldritch glaive, Dragon Magic), or any of the other blast shape options.
#4
zeldafan
Feb 27, 2011 17:25:05 Woah, this is awesome! Thanks!

I'm definetly going to go that route for my dwarf. I'll finally be able to hit things again! :D

And I'll ask my friend if she wants to go more defensive and have a lot of spells, or insanely strong but pretty vulnerable. Not sure which she'll chose, but either way she'll be a huge help to the party.

Thanks again!
#5
zeliek
Feb 27, 2011 18:44:36
If you decide to go ahead with a warlock and want to improve upon it, take a look at this guide for information on how to further optimize damage output. For instance, a dip into an incarnum class is generally better than a binder for use in mitigating the con damage from Hellfire Warlock. Also, you can follow up your levels of Hellfire Warlock with levels of a racial bloodline and/or legacy champion in order to advance Hellfire Warlock beyind its normal 3 levels. Getting eldritch blasts up to even 25d6 at level 20 is possible that way, assuming your DM would let you get away with it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zeldafan Feb 27, 2011 3:53:37	So, I'm pretty sucky when it comes to character builds. I'm more of a roleplayer, so when stats and systems come into play, I flounder. I've been playing a basic 3.5 campaign and just recruited another in who hasn't played before. Since my character is already struggling to compete with the others (who are pretty optimized and have been playing for awhile), I need help on two different builds, one for my friend, and advice for my current one. Oh, and DM allows all books and has very house rules. The campaign we are playing is mostly underground stuff with a wide range of enemies, though invisible monsters have been appearing pretty often of late. Characters now start off at level 12 and have 88000gp. There's currently a human bard, Lynch magic-user of some sort, a celestrial being, and a DM controlled kender who ussually doesn't do anything in battles except maybe throw out a potion. I'll start on my friend's first. She wants to be an elven fire mage of some sort with firey hair. Basically, she wants to be a blaster-type. The firey hair part the DM is making up rules for, so don't worry too much about that (except maybe when cloth armor comes into play and such). The build I've thought of is a Sorcerer 6, Elemental Savant 6 (from Complete Arcane). So far her items are the regalia of the pheonix set (from Magic Item Compendium), Bracers of armor, Ring of Protection, and some random potions, mostly healing. No idea on her spells except a few fire spells she liked and a few I thought would help her AC and HP. Also no clue on feats or skills. I think her AC is about 16 and her HP maybe 50ish? So, uh, help! I'm way unexpeirenced with any sort of magic user, so I have no clue if this is a good build or not. Suggestions? Ideas? Entirely pre-made builds so I can just give her that and be over with this? (The last one would be great :P ) Now, for my character. He's a Dwarven rogue 7, Dungeon Delver 5. His skills are pretty spread out, but pretty strong in anything that isn't charisma based. His main weapon is a wrist crossbow (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Crossbow,_Wrist_(3.5e_Equipment)), his others are a +2 keen rapier and +2 distance sling. His major items are some stun nuts, a Rod of Ropes (Complete Scoundrel) and a cloak of invisibility. 21 AC and 96 HP and 8 BAB. 16 STR, 20 DEX, 17 CON, 15 INT, 11 WIS, 9 CHA. Uh, think that sums up the important parts. Oh, and he's semi-possessed by a snake demon, who so far only gives him Undetectable lie, which seems like it'd be amazing, but we don't run into too many people in the campaign, so it hasn't been too great. My DM ussually throws 30+AC monsters at us and my highest attack is 15. Without any other buffs at the time, I ussually never hit. When I do hit, it's ussually for maybe 10 damage, which compared to the 20s or 30s the others ussually slam out and the 300+HP monsters, isn't that useful. The last time I got a sneak attack and critted, it did only about 20-30 damage. Finally, the DM has been throwing things like plant monsters, too large to reach vitals monsters, or robots, so my 4d6 sneak attack can't be used. So I try attacking like normal and when that fails, start looking through my skills like mad for anything that could be used creatively, like use rope. Basically my problem with him is is low attack, low damage, and what to do against enemies I can't sneak attack. He's been in the campaign for awhile, so I can't really change him much aside from buying stuff or waiting to my next levels. But any ideas of what to get to make him better would be great! Sorry for this huge post, but any help you can give would be great! Thanks!
#2 sleepyshadow Feb 27, 2011 11:15:20	Alright, let's see if I can help you out here. For starters, let's work with your rogue. We need to get your BAB up, as well as let you deal more damage. If you could list the feats that you have right now, that would certainly help. For now, I'll work with what I've got. Rogue 7/Dungeon Delver 5/Shadow Dancer 1/Fighter 2/Ghost Faced Killer 5 Feats (Ones to take unless you have them already): Improved Initiative, Power Attack [Fighter], Improved Toughness [Fighter], Craven. The 1-level dip into Shadow Dancer is for Hide in Plain Sight, which will allow you to gain a lot more sneak attacks. Ghost-Faced Killer has Ghost Step (self-invisibility), Sudden Strike (similar to sneak attack), and full BAB to help you hit them. Lastly, the Craven feat adds your character level to sneak attack damage. Now for your Sorceress friend: Fire Elf (Unearthed Arcana) Wizard 5/Elemental Savant 3/Fatespinner 4/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Elemental Savant 1 Feats: Empower Spell, Energy Substitution (Fire), Spell Focus (Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration), Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Maximize Spell, Sculpt Spell Going Wizard over Sorcerer is a better choice for the wider range of spells they can have, in addition to faster spell progression. Elemental Savant offers a few resistances, as well as aiding in overcoming SR. Fatespinner can use the "spin points" to increase the difficulty of her spell DCs, as well as help keep her alive with a timely reroll for a botched save or something of the ilk. Lastly, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil offers her huge defensive capabilities, plus the veils can offer some significant offensive capabilities as well if used appropriately.
#3 Maat_Mons Feb 27, 2011 13:39:24	It's not the most powerful option, but the new guy might like a binder 1 (Tome of Magic) / warlock 8 (Complete Arcane) / hellfire warlock 3 (Fiendish Codex II). He's effectively a warlock 11 for invocations, so his base eldritch blast damage is 6d6. Hellfire warlock gives him the ability to add +6d6 damage to his eldritch blast by taking a point of constitution damage. Binder gives him the ability to heal a point of damage in each ability score every round (Naberius), so he can take that point of constitution damage every round without worry. A greater chasuble of fell power (Complete Arcane) costs 18,000 gp and adds +2d6 to eldritch blast damage. The net effect is he can deal 14d6 hellfire damage (which ignores resistance and immunity to fire damage) at will as a 30-foot cone (eldritch cone), 250-foot ray (eldritch spear), pair of melee touch attacks (eldritch glaive, Dragon Magic), or any of the other blast shape options.
#4 zeldafan Feb 27, 2011 17:25:05	Woah, this is awesome! Thanks! I'm definetly going to go that route for my dwarf. I'll finally be able to hit things again! :D And I'll ask my friend if she wants to go more defensive and have a lot of spells, or insanely strong but pretty vulnerable. Not sure which she'll chose, but either way she'll be a huge help to the party. Thanks again!
#5 zeliek Feb 27, 2011 18:44:36	If you decide to go ahead with a warlock and want to improve upon it, take a look at this guide for information on how to further optimize damage output. For instance, a dip into an incarnum class is generally better than a binder for use in mitigating the con damage from Hellfire Warlock. Also, you can follow up your levels of Hellfire Warlock with levels of a racial bloodline and/or legacy champion in order to advance Hellfire Warlock beyind its normal 3 levels. Getting eldritch blasts up to even 25d6 at level 20 is possible that way, assuming your DM would let you get away with it.