| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1hellfirewarlockJun 01, 2010 16:30:07 | My campaign just ended after almost 6 months of play, and now my group is starting a new one. I love the erudite, and I want to make a gish this time. I've ran Erudite+wiz, and erudite+archivist, along with erudite + factotum, but I'm at a loss as for how to make a gish out of him, besides to just throw fighter on the other side, which is some thing that seams very boring to me. So I need help. All 3.5 books besides ToB and SK are open. I've thought about using psychic warrior on the other side, which seems a lot of fun, but that would add more MAD than most gish builds have in the first place. All suggestions are very appriciated, and thanks to anyone who can help. |
| #2TifRhalJun 01, 2010 18:16:02 | what are your stats can you use dragon mag stuff what level will you be starting at? Are you playing a gestalt game or is it normal single class? |
| #3hellfirewarlockJun 01, 2010 18:24:18 | It is gestalt, dragon magazine is allowed, and sorry about not puting up my stats, they are 18, 16, 16, 14, 12, 10 they can be put into any order, we also use LA buy off rules if that matters. |
| #4TifRhalJun 01, 2010 19:24:12 | ok gestalt with 18, 16, 16, 14, 12 ,10 stats. what level will you be starting at?. |
| #5hellfirewarlockJun 01, 2010 19:30:43 | We start at 10th and go until somewhere 20-25, as long as we survive. guess I should have mentioned that. |
| #6TifRhalJun 01, 2010 19:59:03 | I would look at picking up convert spell to power then you could pick up something like ranger for some melee skills. Maybe pick up the mystic ranger variant from dragon mag 336 casting at 1st level and up to 5th level spells. Maybe grab the moon warded ranger from dragon mag 340 adding wisdom to ac well in light armor, damage reduction at night, and at finally immunity to mind-effecting spells or abilities. |
| #7hellfirewarlockJun 01, 2010 20:01:45 | That would work, and StP is always a good thing. What do you think of using psychic warrior on my other side? I'll look into the ranger things now got to dig up my dragon mags. |
| #8Maat_MonsJun 01, 2010 21:23:55 | Assuming you can add the power points together, I'd take ardent over psychic warrior. It gives you plenty of power points to throw around and you can use it to manifest utility powers to conserve your unique powers per day. |
| #9TifRhalJun 01, 2010 21:44:07 | I would lean more towards the ranger to gain access to the divine spells. Plus you could drop track and swift track to pick up trapfinding and disable device that variant is from dungeonscape. Ranger gets full base attack good fort and reflex saves your erudite coves the will save. plus 9th level ranger gets evasion always a good thing. The Erudite/ranger is a good Gish caster DPR the Erudite/Psychic warrior would be a focused tank I would think. It all depends on what you want this character to do. |
| #10hellfirewarlockJun 01, 2010 21:45:04 | I got ninja'd by TifRhal reply under the edit I was thinking psychic warrior not just for the Powers, although they are very nice for the gish idea I want, but also because of the good fort and bonus feats. I've never really looked into ardent before, but IIRC don't they have most of their powers off of the Psion/wilder list through their mantles? If I can get some good powers to augment my combat that would work, but as I said I'm not familiar with the ardent. as a side note I don't believe that you can take both mystic ranger and moon warded ranger, as mystic ranger changes when you get your combat style which you give up at the normal ranger level for moon warded ranger. Edit for reply: I think I can get divine spells using StP and a knowledge check to find an arcane caster that has the divine spell converted, and as for the character concept: I want him to be able to metamorphosis into a creature, manifest a few powers that make him really hard to kill(maybe vigor+share pain shared with his psicrystal) and a few that increase his weapons(probably natural) then wade on into melee using his erudite powers to keep him from ever getting in over his head. I can get greater metamorphosis using an epic telepath that has it from expanded knowledge(another knowledge check) Edit 2: if you wouldn't mind TifRhal could you help me understand how the ranger would out perform the psi warrior in DPR? If it is combat styles, couldn't the psi warrior just use his bonus feats to get the same benifit. |
| #11EndarireJun 01, 2010 23:39:21 | Erudite20//Hood |
| #12hellfirewarlockJun 01, 2010 23:52:14 | As cool as the Hood concept is, I doubt that my DM will be happy with the amount of dipping necessary for the builds I saw to work, not to mention I really would prefer not to dip like there is no tomorrow. |
| #13Maat_MonsJun 02, 2010 2:14:08 | I was thinking psychic warrior not just for the Powers, although they are very nice for the gish idea I want, but also because of the good fort and bonus feats. I get that. I'm just saying that I would prefer the extra power points and better power access, if I were making the character. I've never really looked into ardent before, but IIRC don't they have most of their powers off of the Psion/wilder list through their mantles? There is significant overlap, but manifesting a power as an ardent instead of an erudite frees up a unique power per day. You should consider using control body on yourself combined with solicit psicrystal. That lets you use you psicrystal's actions to full attack and replaces your physical ability scores with your intelligence (more-or-less). Since only size and natural attacks would matter for alternate forms, a grell would be nice. They are medium, have 11 natural attacks (10 at full attack bonus), and have only 5 HD. If you have psionic overland flight active, you should be able to move as a mental action, so you can always full attack. Assuming your int is 24 (18 base, +2 levels, +4 enhancement), the grell form gives you 1d4+7 damage 10 times at full attack bonus and 1d6+7 once at -5. That's 105.5 average damage per round, not bad at this level. If you intend to be in an alternate form every battle, wild shape would let you spend the whole day in an alternate form. If you want the grell form, aberration wild shape (Lords of Madness) suffices. Wild shape ranger suffices, if you don't want to go druid. Though it would be nice to have access to enhance wild shape (Spell Compendium) for the blindsight. |
| #14carnivoreJun 02, 2010 4:44:56 | try this: Erudite 20// Duskblade 20 BAB+20 lots of Spells Channel Spells for major damage Int Based Spells + Int based Powers or try this: Erudite 20// Swashbuckler 3/ Duskblade 17 BAB+20 lots of Spells Channel Spells for major damage Int Based Spells + Int based Powers Int to Melee damage ![]() |
| #15hellfirewarlockJun 02, 2010 9:53:42 | Duskblade looks interesting, but as for the ardent, I'm going to read more up on it today. I just don't know enough about it. I did find the King of Smack build on the forums, that looked a lot like what I would like to be able to do. It does seem that it wouldn't be hard to pull off with only erudite and a pair of expanded knowledge feats though. Going to go read up on the ardent... |
| #16hellfirewarlockJun 02, 2010 12:21:57 | Normally I would just edit this into my above post and not double post, but I wanted this to pop up as a new post. I read up on ardent, but the more research I do the more I think TifRhal is right about the ranger. I would go wild shaping ranger5+ Master of many forms10+ either warshaper5 or nature's warrior5. So far for feats I have been thinking of taking: 1 Dodge, StP ACF 2 3 Combat Expertise 4 5 Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Beast) 6 Karmic Strike 7 8 9 Improved Natural Attack (claw) 10 Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Vampire) 11 12 Rapidstrike (claw) 13 14 15 Improved Rapidstrike (claw), Linked Power 16 17 18 ??? 19 20 ??? and using synad as my race, any suggestions? edit: added linked power at level 15 |
| #17EndarireJun 02, 2010 17:51:39 | A Warblade can make a fine Hood base. Besides, why limit yourself so much? |
| #18TifRhalJun 02, 2010 19:13:36 | No TOB or SK it was in post #1 that is why I suggested ranger since warblade and all that is not an option. |
| #19hellfirewarlockJun 02, 2010 19:19:42 | ToB got banned because my DM doesn't know how it works. Not to mention I'm still really uncomfortable with the system. I've only ran 1 and he ended up dying on the second session because of a really bad set of rolls. How does my build look so far? |
| #20phoenix00Jun 02, 2010 21:26:44 | I would try to get 4 levels of Telflammar Shadowlord (lvl 11 you get shadow jump) or 5 levels of Crinti Shadow Marauder (lvl 10 you get Shadow Jump). This ability is that good for a gish build, when combine with a full manifesting class on the other side. If you take the magic mantle then you can persist psionic powers. Take the illuminan race with naen hoon combine with a rebuke/turn undead class and you can do two powers per day, or 4 with rods of extend/extend power. Tashaltora from Secrets of Sarlona Eberron. Allows you to stack monk and 1 psionic class for many monk features includeding unarmed strike and flurry. Combine with the spell greater mighty wallop and you are doing 8d10 damage per unarmed strike. |
| #21hellfirewarlockJun 02, 2010 21:35:07 | Where are Telflammar Shadowlord and Crinti from? I don't recognize them at all. |
| #22phoenix00Jun 02, 2010 23:27:11 | Where are Telflammar Shadowlord and Crinti from? I don't recognize them at all. They are forgotten realm prestige classes from Unapproachable East (TS) and Shinning South (CSM). They are old favorites of CO (unfortunately so old that the handbooks don't seem to survive the transition). There signature ability is called shadow jump, whenever you use an ability with a teleportation descriptor to appear next to an enemy you can full attack them.
The threads are down but maybe you can webarchive them |
| #23hellfirewarlockJun 03, 2010 9:29:31 | I can't qualifiy for Telflammar Shadowlord because I have to be able to "cast" dimention door, or have it as a spell-like-ability, and I would never use the Crinti because it requires two feats I don't want and I have to ride a mount to use the ability. as an unrelated note does anyone know where the living spell template is? |
| #24phoenix00Jun 03, 2010 10:21:39 | I can't qualifiy for Telflammar Shadowlord because I have to be able to "cast" dimention door, or have it as a spell-like-ability, and I would never use the Crinti because it requires two feats I don't want and I have to ride a mount to use the ability. The magic mantle (which you can acquire by taking don and tap mantle feats) would treat all your powers as also as spells. Thus treating your psionic dimension door also as a spell. That or you can do the shadow-walker template. This is a template that you acquire during the campaign progression. It is 1 LA, basically you sacrifice some of your life force to gain abilities of the shadow. |
| #25hellfirewarlockJun 03, 2010 14:50:55 | I could take the template and use Telflammar Shadowlord, but I'm goning to have to rework my whole build to figure out how to get all the feats I need, maybe I'll look into the Hood build for insperation, as I seam to have a lot of similar abilities to it. |
| #26carnivoreJun 03, 2010 15:11:06 | try this: Psion 20// Swashbuckler 3/ Monk 2/ Duskblade 15 it gives lots of Bonus feats..... and if you use the following: Monastic training(Psion) Carmondine Monk Tashalatora(Psion) you get 22nd lvl Monk Abilities(AC, Flurry, Unarmed Damage) and Int to AC instead of Wis also you get Int to Damage and Int based psionics, and Spells ![]() |
| #27hellfirewarlockJun 03, 2010 15:26:59 | thanks, I'm working on the build now. Hopfully I'll figure it out soon.![]() |
| #28hellfirewarlockJun 04, 2010 21:08:50 | When I was looking around BG's forum for inspiration for my build, I stumbled upon LoP's nasty gentleman thread, and quickly wanted to base my build on a slightly toned down version that's a two weapon fighter using tentacle whips as his weapons, using their channel touch ability with my powers, and abusing the share spells, that with transparency, will according to my DM translates to share powers. Ya for DM's with low will saves . Here's what I have for a build so far:Daelkyr Half-Blood Erudie 20/Ranger 17+ Impure Prince6(taken 12-17)+ Scout3(taken at level 18-20) 1 Weapon Finesse, Psicrystal Affinity(B), Symbiont Mastery(B) 2 Two-Weapon Fighting(B) 3 Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting 5 Opportunity Power(B) 6 Weapon Focus, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting(B) 9 Linked Power 10 Psychic Meditation 11 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting(B) 12 Two-Weapon Rend 15 Swift Hunter,???(psionic bonus) 18??? 20??? With at least 1 breed leach, 2 crawling gauntlets, 2 tentacle whips, 1 shadow sibling, 1 stormstalk, 1 throwing scarab, 1 winter cyst. All lured using the impure prince's lure symbiont ability for 100 gp each(except for 1 crawling gauntlet that was obtained from being a Daelkyr Half-Blood). At level 16 I will have all of the symbionts for a total cost of 800gp. I do need a way to lessen my ability damage from a few of the symbionts. Any suggestions are welcome, but what I would like help the most with is the last three feats and help lessening my ability damage. |
| #29carnivoreJun 05, 2010 8:06:05 | if you have taken Opportunity Power ... and plan on lots of AoOs.... Robilars Gambit+ Combat Reflexes +Double Hit = win![]() |
| #30hellfirewarlockJun 05, 2010 9:36:47 | Edite:Forgot to take into account the templates granted feats, fixed, added stats Daelkyr Half-Blood with Voidmind template taken at level 2(written into backstory, all three controlling illithids were killed.) Erudie 20/Ranger 17+ Impure Prince6(taken 12-17)+ Scout3(taken at level 18-20) 1 Weapon Finesse, Psicrystal Affinity(B), Symbiont Mastery(B) 2 Two-Weapon Fighting(B), Combat Reflexes(T), Great Fortitude(T), Alertness(T) 3 Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting 5 Opportunity Power(B) 6 Robilar's Gambit, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting(B) 9 Linked Power 10 Psychic Meditation(B) 11 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting(B) 12 Two-Weapon Rend 15 Swift Hunter, Psicrystal Containment(psionic bonus) 18 Double Hit 20 ???, ???(erudite bonus) Edit:I had to sacrifice Weapon Focus to be able to take the AoO chian suggested by carnivore. With at least 1 breed leach, 2 crawling guantlets, 2 tentecle whips, 1 shadow sibling, 1 stormstalk, 1 throwing scarab, 1 winter cyst. All lured using the impure prince's lure symbiont ability for 100 gp each(except for 1 crawling gauntlet that was abtained from being a Daelkyr Half-Blood). stats str 18 dex 18 con 18 int 20 wis 10 cha 10 |
| #31hellfirewarlockJun 07, 2010 18:57:17 | Any thoughts on the above build? And does anyone have a suggestions for the last to feats because I'm at a loss? Thanks for the replies so far. |