To that end there are some things I want that are non negotiable or changable or that the GM has stipulated:
He must be a XPH Half Giant.
He must use the Exotic Weapon: Longaxe from the Complete Warrior. Not the most perfect weapon but definately in his concept.
He MUST be good aligned (Chaotic Good is what I am going with)
Please do not suggest alternates to the above.
Also, ideally, he will end up with a BAB 20 if at all possible.
Important house rules:
1 - Fighters get Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization, Weapon Mastery and Weapon Supremacy with that chosen weapon as free feats as soon as the character legally qualifies for the feats, over and above the normal fighter bonus feat progression.
2 - All characters start with a bonus feat at level 1. Humans still get their racial bonus feat on top of that too.
3 - The 'character level feat' advancement track in our game is identical to the fighter bonus feat advancement track. (Our gm likes a feat heavy game, so with rules 2+3 a fighter, for example, would have 2 Feats and a Fighter bonus feat at level one and a Human or Strongheart Halfling one would have 3 Feats and a Fighter feat).
4 - We are using LA buyoff and a variant multiclass penalty on XP so for our purposes don't worry about XP penalties.
5 - Items/magic items CANNOT qualify you for feats, classes or PrC's in her game. If you do not have the needed prereq's buck naked, you do not qualify.
His starting stats are:
Str - 20, Dex - 16, Con - 20, Int - 16, Wis - 12, Cha - 10 (The GM uses an extremely generous point buy system so yeah he is starting out hot.)
This campaign is starting at ECL 2 and will probably go into epic so the build needs to be playable at all levels. Don't worry about equipment for the build at all. That will all come during play as treasure or what we buy from what is available.
What I want to do is a dungeon crasher style character who TWF's a Longaxe and Armor Spikes. Ideally I will have enough fighter to make the feats work and then go into Warblade for Tome of Battle goodness. I definately need Ironheart surge in the build, and really want to max out TWF as well.
While our GM is allowing the Half Giant race and it's Psi like ability she does not, generally, allow psionic classes at all, however suggestions on how to get additional uses per day or enhance the Stomp Psi like ability would be appreciated.
Edit: Our GM wants me to play Crusader instead of Warblade. How can I get Ironheart Surge in a Crusader build?
All WotC books are available within the above listed restrictions.
What I have so far:
1. Crusader 1
2. Fighter 1
3. Fighter 2
4. Crusader 2
5. Fighter 3
6. Fighter 4
7-20 Crusader?
Feats:
ChL 1. Improved Bull Rush, Exotic Weapon: Longaxe;
ChL 2. Power Attack; Fighter 1: Knockback, Weapon Focus: Longaxe
ChL 4. Short Haft, Fighter 2. Dungeoncrasher
ChL 6. Combat Expertise; Fighter: Improved Trip, Weapon Specialization: Longaxe, Weapon Mastery: Slashing
ChL 8. TWF
ChL 10 Improved TWF
ChL 12. Greater TWF
ChL 14. Adaptive Style
ChL 16. Shock Trooper
ChL 18. Combat Reflexes
ChL 20. ?
This is where I get muddied up and lost. I did this all from memory so I am nearly positive that I got some of the feats or their prereq’s wrong.
I will be putting points in dex to qualify for the TWF feats until I qualify for GTWF then Str after that if it matters.
This will be my first actual ToB character so suggestions on which maneuvers and stances to take that support the build concept would be appreciated.
I know this was long but if you’ve gotten this far I appreciate any help or ideas you can give.
As a standard tactic...
Round 1: Expand and link Force Screen (or whatever other power you might want) to it.
Round 2: Find a Dungeoncrashable target, and charge.
Round 3-x: Maneuvers.
When target is dead, repeat from step 2.
What I have so far:
1. Fighter 1
2. Fighter 2
3. Warblade 1
4. Warblade 2
5. Fighter 3
6. Fighter 4
7. Warblade the rest?
You might as well go to Fighter 6 in order to get the damage upgrade to Dungeoncrasher. You probably don't want to take any more than that, though.
Feats:
CL 1. Knockback, Exotic Weapon: Longaxe; Fighter 1: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Longaxe
CL 2. Improved Bull Rush; Fighter 2. Dungeoncrasher
CL 4. Short Haft
CL 6. Improved Trip; Fighter: Shock Trooper, Weapon Specialization: Longaxe
CL 8. TWF
CL 10 Improved TWF
CL 12. Greater TWF
You don't qualify for Knockback at level one, you need Improved Bull Rush as a prereq. Just switch those two feats and you'll be fine there.
You need Combat Expertise in order to qualify for Improved Trip.
Since you have reach, you definitely want to grab Combat Reflexes if at all possible. Stand Still and/or improved Trip are very nice control options as well, if you want to go that route.
Short Haft is a bit redundant if you're going to be using TWF with armor spikes anyway.
IIRC, you can do (somewhat cheesy) tricks with Knockback, Dungeoncrasher, and the Stormguard Warrior feat. (Like make touch attacks that knock enemies into walls, and then get big combat bonuses against them the next round.)
You might as well go to Fighter 6 in order to get the damage upgrade to Dungeoncrasher. You probably don't want to take any more than that, though.
You don't qualify for Knockback at level one, you need Improved Bull Rush as a prereq. Just switch those two feats and you'll be fine there.
You need Combat Expertise in order to qualify for Improved Trip.
Since you have reach, you definitely want to grab Combat Reflexes if at all possible. Stand Still and/or improved Trip are very nice control options as well, if you want to go that route.
Thanks! These are great suggestions!
Short Haft is a bit redundant if you're going to be using TWF with armor spikes anyway.
I took it because the longaxe can be used as a reach weapon if you use 2 points into power attack but if someone closes with me I cannot change the reach till the following round. Short Haft allows me to do it once per round so I can react to that sort of issue.
If I take 2 more levels of fighter I should get 1 more bonus feats so blowing one on short haft should not be too bad given how many she allows.
Taking levels in any psionic class is a no no for her campaign. While she is ok with me taking a half giant she does not want psionics or psionic classes in the game.
Taking Warblade at first level (instead of fighter) nets you +1 HP (on average) and +8 skill points - for no cost.
I am an idiot. I forgot the most BASIC of rules. Thanks for pointing that out!
Any suggestions on Maneuvers for charging and knocking around opponents on the Warblade side? No one in our games has done a ToB character so I have no local resources to ask for exerienced players.
Also is there a feat anywhere that allows you to get extra uses per day of a spell like ability or psionic like ability? Either one would work as I am nearly positive I can convince my ref to let them work on the Stomp power if they exist in either form.
Complete Psionic has a feat for Half-Giants that lets them use their Stomp ability 3 times per day. There is another feat that sets the manifester level equal to your character level, rather than the normal 1/2 character level.
Thanks Ithamar I'll look into those.
Does the manifester level really affect Stomp's power all that much? Memory makes me think it doesn't have any level dependent attributes and since the save already scales with level it's pretty nice.
Or would making the manifester level higher increase the save too? If so I would definately want that over even more uses.
You might get some tips of what to look for and what to avoid. Note that it only goes up to ECL 6, though.
I don't know if you've looked at this already, but there's a fairly detailed diary of a guy who played a similar character (a goliath warblade/dungeon-crashing fighter): http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=981203
You might get some tips of what to look for and what to avoid. Note that it only goes up to ECL 6, though.
Yeah I read that and that is what actually inspired me to do this character.
Does the manifester level really affect Stomp's power all that much? Memory makes me think it doesn't have any level dependent attributes and since the save already scales with level it's pretty nice.
Or would making the manifester level higher increase the save too? If so I would definately want that over even more uses.
I'm no expert on psionics, but I think the higher the manifester level, the more you can augment the power. In which case, more augmenting = more 1d4's worth of damage.
I'm no expert on psionics, but I think the higher the manifester level, the more you can augment the power. In which case, more augmenting = more 1d4's worth of damage.
Exactly. Specific to Half-Giant and Stomp... ML = half HD. OR... # of d4s = half HD. A feat that allows ML = ML, then # of d4s = ML.
Yeah I read that and that is what actually inspired me to do this character.
I thought so, but it couldn't hurt to make sure.
Exactly. Specific to Half-Giant and Stomp... ML = half HD. OR... # of d4s = half HD. A feat that allows ML = ML, then # of d4s = ML.
With the problem that since Stomp is a Psion Like Ability I am nearly positive you cannot pump it with Psi points to boost it. If there is one thing I remember about psionics is that each power has a base value and can be boosted with more points put in.
Additionally since he is not going to have any Psi classes I think that leaves him with 2 Psi points total (from his race)and that is not enough to boost it up that far even if it works that way.
I am mostly liking it for the knockdown effect rather than the damage anyways.
With the problem that since Stomp is a Psion Like Ability I am nearly positive you cannot pump it with Psi points to boost it. If there is one thing I remember about psionics is that each power has a base value and can be boosted with more points put in.
Additionally since he is not going to have any Psi classes I think that leaves him with 2 Psi points total (from his race)and that is not enough to boost it up that far even if it works that way.
I am mostly liking it for the knockdown effect rather than the damage anyways.
It is a Psi-like ability and can be used without taking any psionic class levels. It costs no PPs to use, and you're right, you don't pump any additional PPs into it. A Psi-like ability is automatically augmented depending on your HD. Click here and read "Psi-like abilities" for more details.
It is a Psi-like ability and can be used without taking any psionic class levels. It costs no PPs to use, and you're right, you don't pump any additional PPs into it. A Psi-like ability is automatically augmented depending on your HD. Click here and read "Psi-like abilities" for more details.
You sir are a gentlemen and a fine judge of whiskey. That definately makes me want to get BOTH those previously suggestion half giant feats.
The fact that the stomp is automatically boosted to your ML is massive.
Now to find some way to turn the subdual damage into lethal...
Now to find some way to turn the subdual damage into lethal...
Why? Really it's not that important to deal lethal damage (in most cases). Unconscious is unconscious, whether you're dying or not. A CDG kills you either way! Plus, it's easier to interrogate that way.
Why? Really it's not that important to deal lethal damage (in most cases).
Correct me if I am wrong (which has been almost non stop this thread hehe) but doesn't subdual damage overlap lethal damage, and not stack?
Therefore if I stomp at the start of a battle and do X subdual and knockdown, and then swing on the same targets later, that X damage does not help me finish them off unless I am doing nothing but subdual.
Or another way: A creature with 50 HP takes 49 Subdual damage. It will take another 2 subdual to render the creature unconscious but it will take 51 lethal to render it unconscious.
If I could make the stomp damage lethal it would just be more effiicient in combat and less book keeping.
Assuming I am not wrong that is. Again. Heheh
I suppose I could get a merciful weapon but frankly the concept of dealing nothing but non lethal damage doesn't quite fit the image in my head of this particular half giant and with the good alingment requirement in the campaign I don't see too many Coup De Grace happening to unconcious or helpless opponents (such is considered evil and murder in our games).
Far easier to just make them dead the old fashioned way.
Or another way: A creature with 50 HP takes 49 Subdual damage. It will take another 2 subdual to render the creature unconscious but it will take 51 lethal to render it unconscious.
Yeah, you're a little wrong there. It would only take 2 points of either type of damage to render it unconscious.
Try this on for size...
Treat lethal damage as a negative tally on HPs, starting at the creature's max.
Treat non-lethal damage as a positive tally starting at 0.
When the two tallies meet or pass each other, the creature is unconscious.
So, a creature with 50 max HP will be unconscious if it takes 25 lethal and 25 non-lethal. It just won't be dying -- he needs to take 51 lethal for that.
So in essence they DO stack like your example. You just make your foes blackout instead of killing them.
Wierd.
And oddly that also means that you can take them well past -10 HP with non lethal and never kill them since the only effect of non lethal damage is unconsciousness.
Is there a pre epic way of getting an AOO for every trigger, without limit, in a round or is Improved Combat Reflexes it?
You sir are a gentlemen and a fine judge of whiskey. That definately makes me want to get BOTH those previously suggestion half giant feats.
The fact that the stomp is automatically boosted to your ML is massive...
It's O.K., but note that the DC is still low (equivalent to a level 1 spell).
It's O.K., but note that the DC is still low (equivalent to a level 1 spell).
True. If the OP is that interested in Stomping, he should try raising his Cha. I think there is also a psionic equivalent to Ability Focus -- don't know what it's called. If it doesn't exist, making it up is completely balanced.
True. If the OP is that interested in Stomping, he should try raising his Cha. I think there is also a psionic equivalent to Ability Focus -- don't know what it's called. If it doesn't exist, making it up is completely balanced.
Since my ref is not using psionics I am pretty sure I can convince her to make it an SLA with a Str based save rather than what it is now, which should work out great for this guy.
The problem now is that we are starting this new game with a new rule, which is basically, "You cannot play anything you have played before."
Meaning no race and/or class combo's or character personalities we have done in previous games. For me this is not an issue, it is basically being done to force 2 of our more sedentary players to play something new instead of the same race/class/personality combo they have done in 3 straight campaigns now.
But it does mean that since I have 2 levels of warblade on another of my current characters I cannot have warblade on this. So the ref wants me to go crusader instead.
Any suggestions on how this sort of build will work on a Crusader? Should I switch points from Int to some other stat to bolster the Crusader side?
Also I am still looking for a pre epic way of getting an AOO for every legal trigger, without limit, in a round. I could have sworn there was a pre epic feat that allowed this in one of the complete books but I cannot find it now.
Any help is still appreciated.
Also I am still looking for a pre epic way of getting an AOO for every legal trigger, without limit, in a round. I could have sworn there was a pre epic feat that allowed this in one of the complete books but I cannot find it now.
Unfortunately I can't help with the feat, but there is an item in MIC that lets you take 1 extra AoO in a round twice a day. Plus it gives you +2 to all AoO attempts. The item is pretty darn cheap, so maybe see if your DM will let you double, triple, or quadruple the price for extra AoO's (and a higher bonus to AoO's if you really want to push the envelope).
Unfortunately I can't help with the feat, but there is an item in MIC that lets you take 1 extra AoO in a round twice a day. Plus it gives you +2 to all AoO attempts. The item is pretty darn cheap, so maybe see if your DM will let you double, triple, or quadruple the price for extra AoO's (and a higher bonus to AoO's if you really want to push the envelope).
No way you would remember the name of the item or where in MiC could it be found?
You only get the +2 bonus if you have Combat Reflexes, but I just assumed that anyone who wanted the braces would already have that feat.