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Help with a monk/druid/cleric

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 6:42:03 I'm trying to create a build for a monk/druid/cleric. The current build I'm considering:

Monk 1/Druid 16/Cleric 1/Druid 2

Feats: Aberration Blood (Flexible Limbs), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shocktrooper, Aberrant Wild Shape, Leap Attack, Extra Turning, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell, Natural Spell

Domains: Planning and Undeath

For the druid, I'm considering the druidic avenger variant from unearthed arcana. It gains Fast Movement (as a barbarian). I'm dropping that for the Lion Totem (Complete Champion) barbarian variant. So, now, it is a druid with permanent pounce in any form. Then, the whirling frenzy variant for rage.

25 point buy. I'm looking for the best race (max +3 level adjustment so that it can be bought off) to maximize wisdom and charisma (for turn undead attempts). I'm trying to make this as campaign-setting independent as possible.

I need Str 13, which is unfortunate for a druid (although once he has wild shape, that might be a moot point, as I can claim that his strength in wild shape form is enough to warrant taking Power Attack, so I won't be a stickler for that score.
#2
CantripN
May 23, 2009 6:59:31 Monk's Belt + Wilding Clap.
Sacred Exorcist.
Druid 20.

Are you sure you want to lose your Animal Companion? It's quite good.
#3
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 7:11:34
Monk's Belt + Wilding Clap.
Sacred Exorcist.
Druid 20.

Monk's belt grants only the unarmed damage of a monk. It does not grant the class ability that allows a monk to use any part of his body as an unarmed strike. This means that a druid 20 with a monk's belt that wild shapes into a bear has no ability to use unarmed strikes. No kung fu bears just from donning monk's belts. You need that one level of monk.

I don't know what you mean by Sacred Exorcist as a stand-alone sentence. Are you suggesting I should take a level of sacred exorcist? Will it give me the planning domain? Feats are becoming an issue. I get bonus feats from Monk and Cleric (two from cleric, actually).

Anyway, for races, I'm thinking Phrenic Dustform Incarnate Construct Dragonborn Anthropomorphic Bat (Phrenic grants +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha for a +2 level adjustment, Dustform grants +4 Str for a +2 level adjustment, and incarnate construct grants a -2 level adjustment, although drops the +2 Int from Phrenic. Finally, Dragonborn grants +2 Con and class features useful to a druid, namely sensory perception)

So, with that combo, I'd wind up with the following stat adjustments:
Size Small
Dex -4, Con +2, Wis +8, Cha +2
Level Adjustment: +2

With a 25 point-buy, I can get:
Str 8
Dex 8-4
Con 13+2
Int 8
Wis 16+8
Cha 16+2
#4
carnivore
May 23, 2009 7:21:12 Race = 1/2 Fey Draconic Anthropomorphic Bat(+3 LA)

(-2 Str, Dex +2, Wis +8, Cha +4)

Fav Class : Druid

:D
#5
carnivore
May 23, 2009 7:23:50
Monk's belt grants only the unarmed damage of a monk. It does not grant the class ability that allows a monk to use any part of his body as an unarmed strike. This means that a druid 20 with a monk's belt that wild shapes into a bear has no ability to use unarmed strikes. No kung fu bears just from donning monk's belts. You need that one level of monk.

I don't know what you mean by Sacred Exorcist as a stand-alone sentence. Are you suggesting I should take a level of sacred exorcist? Will it give me the planning domain? Feats are becoming an issue. I get bonus feats from Monk and Cleric (two from cleric, actually).

Anyway, for races, I'm thinking Phrenic Dustform Incarnate Construct Dragonborn Anthropomorphic Bat (Phrenic grants +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha for a +2 level adjustment, Dustform grants +4 Str for a +2 level adjustment, and incarnate construct grants a -2 level adjustment, although drops the +2 Int from Phrenic. Finally, Dragonborn grants +2 Con and class features useful to a druid, namely sensory perception)

So, with that combo, I'd wind up with the following stat adjustments:
Size Small
Dex -4, Con +2, Wis +8, Cha +2
Level Adjustment: +2

With a 25 point-buy, I can get:
Str 8
Dex 8-4
Con 13+2
Int 8
Wis 16+8
Cha 16+2

better avoid Dragonborn.... it resets Racial abilities... but you keep the stat adjustments and a few physical characteristics .... see "Rite of Rebirth" sidebar in Races of the Dragon

:D
#6
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 7:33:40
better avoid Dragonborn.... it resets Racial abilities... but you keep the stat adjustments and a few physical characteristics .... see "Rite of Rebirth" sidebar in Races of the Dragon

:D

Anthropomorphic bats have very few good abilities. The only good abilities would have been granted by Phrenic. The DM uses Skip Williams' guidance that non-humanoids do not lose their one racial hit die, so in order to lose it, I have to make sure that the final creature is humanoid (which is possible by adding Dustform and Incarnate Construct to turn it into a construct, then back into a humanoid for a net +0 level adjustment). Of course, once it turns back into a humanoid, it has no special attack OR special qualities, making it the perfect candidate for Dragonborn :P. Oh well!
#7
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 7:35:20
Race = 1/2 Fey Draconic Anthropomorphic Bat(+3 LA)

(-2 Str, Dex +2, Wis +8, Cha +4)

Fav Class : Druid

:D

Looks good! I like it! I still need to go Dustform + Incarnate Construct because of my DM, but I definitely like it!
#8
carnivore
May 23, 2009 7:36:19 you will lose all the 1/2 fey goodies by applying Dragonborn

remember the order that Templates are applied:

1st: Inherited
2nd: Acquired/ Inflicted

:D
#9
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 7:40:55
you will lose all the 1/2 fey goodies by applying Dragonborn

remember the order that Templates are applied:

1st: Inherited
2nd: Acquired/ Inflicted

:D

It's true, but to avoid being fey and incurring a one level sacrifice for race, it is worth it. Remember, Incarnate Construct already gets rid of all 1/2 fey goodies, so at that point, applying Dragonborn becomes worth it.
#10
carnivore
May 23, 2009 7:47:54 i would avoid Dustform+Incarnate Construct myself ... just not my style ;)

:D
#11
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 7:58:44
i would avoid Dustform+Incarnate Construct myself ... just not my style ;)

:D

So, a Monk 1/Druid 17/Cleric 1 is better? I suppose it is not too much of a loss. Maybe I will do that and keep the half-fey goodies. I'll check into it.

On a different note, is it possible to use Divine Metamagic on spells cast from scrolls?
#12
carnivore
May 23, 2009 8:05:52 checking to be sure

:D
#13
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 8:37:28 Also, my DM doesn't allow stacking of nightsticks. It seems like I'm going to be limited in the number of persistent spells I am gonna get to cast on myself. Let's see:

Charisma: 20+5 (tome of leadership +5)+3 (venerable)+6 (cloak of Charisma +6 w/ wilding clasp) = 34. That means that with Extra Turning and a single nightstick, I'll have 23 turn attempts per day. That's only three persistent spells. Anyone have any ideas for how to get more? I've checked the threads, and they mostly say that I need more nightsticks, which my DM has come down quite firmly against using multiple.
#14
phaedrusxy
May 23, 2009 9:13:32 Take Leadership, and get an Incantatrix cohort. Then you can dump cleric entirely, if all you're doing with it is Persisting druid spells.
#15
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 9:15:59
Take Leadership, and get an Incantatrix cohort. Then you can dump cleric entirely, if all you're doing with it is Persisting druid spells.

Definitely a good idea, but that ties the character to the Forgotten Realms. This is not a FR campaign. However, that was my first thought, as well.

Edit: Also, the idea was with a level of cleric, I could potentially persist non-druid spells. Like grabbing a scroll of Divine Power. Casting a spell from a scroll is the same as if you had cast it, right? It might allow me to persist those spells, too.
#16
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 10:54:54 Maybe three spells is enough. There aren't too many spells that I would want persistent. Let's see: Bite of the Werebear, Nature's Avatar, and ... I'm drawing a blank. Maybe I'd only want those two spells persistent. I suppose Righteous Might or Divine Power could be useful on the cleric side from scrolls, but other than that, it seems like I'd just want two spells persistent... Maybe Undermaster, if I could afford the 500gp each casting. Nature's Avatar, of course, is pushing it, since it is a touch spell, but requiring an animal is not an issue when there is a first level spell called Aspect of the Wolf.

Can anyone think of any other druid spells that would be worthwhile to persist?
#17
phaedrusxy
May 23, 2009 11:13:25
Casting a spell from a scroll is the same as if you had cast it, right?

Nope. At least, most DMs I've known wouldn't rule that way, and I think it was clarified officially, also. Otherwise, you could share spells from scrolls with your familiar/companion/etc, too.
#18
cru
May 23, 2009 11:28:07
Can anyone think of any other druid spells that would be worthwhile to persist?

Shapechange ain't that bad I guess..
#19
tos_shai_hulud
May 23, 2009 12:55:12 It lasts 3 hours per casting anyway. Seems a waste, doesn't it?
#20
sofawall
May 24, 2009 1:36:33
For the druid, I'm considering the druidic avenger variant from unearthed arcana. It gains Fast Movement (as a barbarian). I'm dropping that for the Lion Totem (Complete Champion) barbarian variant. So, now, it is a druid with permanent pounce in any form. Then, the whirling frenzy variant for rage.

I'd just like to point out that just because you may have fast movement like a barbarian, it doesn't make you a barbarian.
#21
muertog
May 24, 2009 2:21:33 There are two schools of thought on the multiple class feature chain trades. Whatever your DM decides to allow (or not) is final rule.

There are ways of lowering the metamagic costs for persist... can't remember off the top of my head. I think there is an "Easy Metamagic" and there is something from Races of Dragon... Someone else will be able to help out here. :P
#22
tos_shai_hulud
May 24, 2009 6:19:14
I'd just like to point out that just because you may have fast movement like a barbarian, it doesn't make you a barbarian.

It is true, and some DMs might oppose this. However, if a druid is grabbing a class feature from barbarian, and that class feature has been replaced by a variant, many DMs agree that you can take the variant from barbarian instead. If you disagree, then don't play with that rule.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 6:42:03	I'm trying to create a build for a monk/druid/cleric. The current build I'm considering: Monk 1/Druid 16/Cleric 1/Druid 2 Feats: Aberration Blood (Flexible Limbs), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shocktrooper, Aberrant Wild Shape, Leap Attack, Extra Turning, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell, Natural Spell Domains: Planning and Undeath For the druid, I'm considering the druidic avenger variant from unearthed arcana. It gains Fast Movement (as a barbarian). I'm dropping that for the Lion Totem (Complete Champion) barbarian variant. So, now, it is a druid with permanent pounce in any form. Then, the whirling frenzy variant for rage. 25 point buy. I'm looking for the best race (max +3 level adjustment so that it can be bought off) to maximize wisdom and charisma (for turn undead attempts). I'm trying to make this as campaign-setting independent as possible. I need Str 13, which is unfortunate for a druid (although once he has wild shape, that might be a moot point, as I can claim that his strength in wild shape form is enough to warrant taking Power Attack, so I won't be a stickler for that score.
#2 CantripN May 23, 2009 6:59:31	Monk's Belt + Wilding Clap. Sacred Exorcist. Druid 20. Are you sure you want to lose your Animal Companion? It's quite good.
#3 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 7:11:34	Monk's Belt + Wilding Clap. Sacred Exorcist. Druid 20. Monk's belt grants only the unarmed damage of a monk. It does not grant the class ability that allows a monk to use any part of his body as an unarmed strike. This means that a druid 20 with a monk's belt that wild shapes into a bear has no ability to use unarmed strikes. No kung fu bears just from donning monk's belts. You need that one level of monk. I don't know what you mean by Sacred Exorcist as a stand-alone sentence. Are you suggesting I should take a level of sacred exorcist? Will it give me the planning domain? Feats are becoming an issue. I get bonus feats from Monk and Cleric (two from cleric, actually). Anyway, for races, I'm thinking Phrenic Dustform Incarnate Construct Dragonborn Anthropomorphic Bat (Phrenic grants +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha for a +2 level adjustment, Dustform grants +4 Str for a +2 level adjustment, and incarnate construct grants a -2 level adjustment, although drops the +2 Int from Phrenic. Finally, Dragonborn grants +2 Con and class features useful to a druid, namely sensory perception) So, with that combo, I'd wind up with the following stat adjustments: Size Small Dex -4, Con +2, Wis +8, Cha +2 Level Adjustment: +2 With a 25 point-buy, I can get: Str 8 Dex 8-4 Con 13+2 Int 8 Wis 16+8 Cha 16+2
#4 carnivore May 23, 2009 7:21:12	Race = 1/2 Fey Draconic Anthropomorphic Bat(+3 LA) (-2 Str, Dex +2, Wis +8, Cha +4) Fav Class : Druid :D
#5 carnivore May 23, 2009 7:23:50	Monk's belt grants only the unarmed damage of a monk. It does not grant the class ability that allows a monk to use any part of his body as an unarmed strike. This means that a druid 20 with a monk's belt that wild shapes into a bear has no ability to use unarmed strikes. No kung fu bears just from donning monk's belts. You need that one level of monk. I don't know what you mean by Sacred Exorcist as a stand-alone sentence. Are you suggesting I should take a level of sacred exorcist? Will it give me the planning domain? Feats are becoming an issue. I get bonus feats from Monk and Cleric (two from cleric, actually). Anyway, for races, I'm thinking Phrenic Dustform Incarnate Construct Dragonborn Anthropomorphic Bat (Phrenic grants +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha for a +2 level adjustment, Dustform grants +4 Str for a +2 level adjustment, and incarnate construct grants a -2 level adjustment, although drops the +2 Int from Phrenic. Finally, Dragonborn grants +2 Con and class features useful to a druid, namely sensory perception) So, with that combo, I'd wind up with the following stat adjustments: Size Small Dex -4, Con +2, Wis +8, Cha +2 Level Adjustment: +2 With a 25 point-buy, I can get: Str 8 Dex 8-4 Con 13+2 Int 8 Wis 16+8 Cha 16+2 better avoid Dragonborn.... it resets Racial abilities... but you keep the stat adjustments and a few physical characteristics .... see "Rite of Rebirth" sidebar in Races of the Dragon :D
#6 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 7:33:40	better avoid Dragonborn.... it resets Racial abilities... but you keep the stat adjustments and a few physical characteristics .... see "Rite of Rebirth" sidebar in Races of the Dragon :D Anthropomorphic bats have very few good abilities. The only good abilities would have been granted by Phrenic. The DM uses Skip Williams' guidance that non-humanoids do not lose their one racial hit die, so in order to lose it, I have to make sure that the final creature is humanoid (which is possible by adding Dustform and Incarnate Construct to turn it into a construct, then back into a humanoid for a net +0 level adjustment). Of course, once it turns back into a humanoid, it has no special attack OR special qualities, making it the perfect candidate for Dragonborn :P. Oh well!
#7 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 7:35:20	Race = 1/2 Fey Draconic Anthropomorphic Bat(+3 LA) (-2 Str, Dex +2, Wis +8, Cha +4) Fav Class : Druid :D Looks good! I like it! I still need to go Dustform + Incarnate Construct because of my DM, but I definitely like it!
#8 carnivore May 23, 2009 7:36:19	you will lose all the 1/2 fey goodies by applying Dragonborn remember the order that Templates are applied: 1st: Inherited 2nd: Acquired/ Inflicted :D
#9 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 7:40:55	you will lose all the 1/2 fey goodies by applying Dragonborn remember the order that Templates are applied: 1st: Inherited 2nd: Acquired/ Inflicted :D It's true, but to avoid being fey and incurring a one level sacrifice for race, it is worth it. Remember, Incarnate Construct already gets rid of all 1/2 fey goodies, so at that point, applying Dragonborn becomes worth it.
#10 carnivore May 23, 2009 7:47:54	i would avoid Dustform+Incarnate Construct myself ... just not my style ;) :D
#11 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 7:58:44	i would avoid Dustform+Incarnate Construct myself ... just not my style ;) :D So, a Monk 1/Druid 17/Cleric 1 is better? I suppose it is not too much of a loss. Maybe I will do that and keep the half-fey goodies. I'll check into it. On a different note, is it possible to use Divine Metamagic on spells cast from scrolls?
#12 carnivore May 23, 2009 8:05:52	checking to be sure :D
#13 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 8:37:28	Also, my DM doesn't allow stacking of nightsticks. It seems like I'm going to be limited in the number of persistent spells I am gonna get to cast on myself. Let's see: Charisma: 20+5 (tome of leadership +5)+3 (venerable)+6 (cloak of Charisma +6 w/ wilding clasp) = 34. That means that with Extra Turning and a single nightstick, I'll have 23 turn attempts per day. That's only three persistent spells. Anyone have any ideas for how to get more? I've checked the threads, and they mostly say that I need more nightsticks, which my DM has come down quite firmly against using multiple.
#14 phaedrusxy May 23, 2009 9:13:32	Take Leadership, and get an Incantatrix cohort. Then you can dump cleric entirely, if all you're doing with it is Persisting druid spells.
#15 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 9:15:59	Take Leadership, and get an Incantatrix cohort. Then you can dump cleric entirely, if all you're doing with it is Persisting druid spells. Definitely a good idea, but that ties the character to the Forgotten Realms. This is not a FR campaign. However, that was my first thought, as well. Edit: Also, the idea was with a level of cleric, I could potentially persist non-druid spells. Like grabbing a scroll of Divine Power. Casting a spell from a scroll is the same as if you had cast it, right? It might allow me to persist those spells, too.
#16 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 10:54:54	Maybe three spells is enough. There aren't too many spells that I would want persistent. Let's see: Bite of the Werebear, Nature's Avatar, and ... I'm drawing a blank. Maybe I'd only want those two spells persistent. I suppose Righteous Might or Divine Power could be useful on the cleric side from scrolls, but other than that, it seems like I'd just want two spells persistent... Maybe Undermaster, if I could afford the 500gp each casting. Nature's Avatar, of course, is pushing it, since it is a touch spell, but requiring an animal is not an issue when there is a first level spell called Aspect of the Wolf. Can anyone think of any other druid spells that would be worthwhile to persist?
#17 phaedrusxy May 23, 2009 11:13:25	Casting a spell from a scroll is the same as if you had cast it, right? Nope. At least, most DMs I've known wouldn't rule that way, and I think it was clarified officially, also. Otherwise, you could share spells from scrolls with your familiar/companion/etc, too.
#18 cru May 23, 2009 11:28:07	Can anyone think of any other druid spells that would be worthwhile to persist? Shapechange ain't that bad I guess..
#19 tos_shai_hulud May 23, 2009 12:55:12	It lasts 3 hours per casting anyway. Seems a waste, doesn't it?
#20 sofawall May 24, 2009 1:36:33	For the druid, I'm considering the druidic avenger variant from unearthed arcana. It gains Fast Movement (as a barbarian). I'm dropping that for the Lion Totem (Complete Champion) barbarian variant. So, now, it is a druid with permanent pounce in any form. Then, the whirling frenzy variant for rage. I'd just like to point out that just because you may have fast movement like a barbarian, it doesn't make you a barbarian.
#21 muertog May 24, 2009 2:21:33	There are two schools of thought on the multiple class feature chain trades. Whatever your DM decides to allow (or not) is final rule. There are ways of lowering the metamagic costs for persist... can't remember off the top of my head. I think there is an "Easy Metamagic" and there is something from Races of Dragon... Someone else will be able to help out here. :P
#22 tos_shai_hulud May 24, 2009 6:19:14	I'd just like to point out that just because you may have fast movement like a barbarian, it doesn't make you a barbarian. It is true, and some DMs might oppose this. However, if a druid is grabbing a class feature from barbarian, and that class feature has been replaced by a variant, many DMs agree that you can take the variant from barbarian instead. If you disagree, then don't play with that rule.