Help with a non standard healer. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with a non standard healer.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
JaredSyn70
May 19, 2008 9:27:23 Hello and thanks for taking a look. I want to build a character who can fit into a party that has no healing, however I do not want my character to just be the healer. I want to get some ideas on ways to go that make him more useful than just as the guy in back healing everyone.

I have 90 points to distribute between my stats.

Starting at 6th level.

16000 gold to start with.

Any race is allowed including races with an ECL.

I have seen several posts referring to persistant spells, is there a list of good spells to make persistant somewhere?

Any and all books are available for class, feats and race. (Please for feats, races and classes indicate which book they are from)

I am looking to be able to provide healing but not be solely a healing character. Was considering some sort of druid but may not always be in the woods, and may spend quite a bit of time in cities.

Any way any and all ideas and assistance is greatly appreciated.
#2
surreal
May 19, 2008 11:42:56 Check my "handy links" in my sig, read up on the sections for clerics, druids, and anything containing the word "heal". There is a LOT of information out there if you know where to look.
#3
kingrat55
May 19, 2008 12:25:31 I'm trying to build a epic cohort (support healer), at this moment she look like this:

Name: To come hehe
Moon Elf Cleric of Solonor Thelandira (Forgotten Realms, its the standard elf)

Level: 21 Cleric
Domains: Elf (Forgotten Realms) and War

Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot (from Elf domain), Weapon Focus (Comp. Longbow, from War Domain) and Precise Shot
3 Zen Archery (Complete warrior)
6 Divine Ward (PH2)
9 Holy Warrior (Complete Champion)
12 Rapid Shot
15 Quicken Spell
18 Chaos Devotion (Complete Champion)
21 Improved Spell Capacity (Epic Handbook)

She's not an optimal Divine Archer or cleric but (me and my DM) we don't like Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic feats combo, so i dont use them.

P.S. You can switch lvl 3 and 18 feats if you want more dmg output at earlier lvls.
#4
tdsaw111
May 19, 2008 14:55:26 DMM Persist Clerics can be incredible. Basically you need to focus on having as high a Charisma as you can and a good Wisdom for spell access.

Can you explain how your stat buy system works?

Prioritize CHA/WIS then CON/INT then DEX/STR. Assuming you can pull 2 18s then you want them in CHA and WIS. Consider being middle aged. Gives a -1 penalty to physical stats, +1 to Mental. This is a small boost but one that can be useful.

Domains: Planning and any other one. Hardcore Optimizers say to take Undeath, but honestly it isn't really needed. I prefer taking a useful Domain like Spells, Time, etc. I would rather lose a feat then a spell per level that is wasted.

FEATS:
Free: Extend Spell
1st: Persist Spell (Complete Arcane)
Human: Divine MetaMagic(Complete Divine)
3rd: Extra Turning
6th: Extra Turning

So, assuming you can manage a starting Cha of 18, you will have a +1 from level at 4th, +1 for age. Total of 20. This gives you a base of 8 turning attempts. +8 more for the two Extra Turnings, total 16. A Cha boost item, and a Night Stick brings this to 21. That is 3 spells a day to persist. This serves as a big boost to the party. This only takes 3 spells per day.

Alternately, for equipment, invest in cheap MetaMagic Rods. Extend is useful, Reach, Maximize, etc. The Lesser Rods are not that bad for price, and they are very useful.
#5
reis
May 19, 2008 15:11:20 do a board search or look in surreal's sig for "fist of raziel" or "ruby knight vindicator" or "cleric build"

read and follow the posting guidelines stickied at the top of the forum before you ask for help with a build and you are a lot more likely to get useful information.
#6
aftercrescent
May 19, 2008 19:02:09 cleric 2/Human paragon 3 (UA)/Divine oracle 2 (CD)/boneknight 10 (5N)/contemplative 1 (CD)/X2

Max wisdom/Cha. Dump Dex. get a 10 in Int and make Str/Con decent
Take planning and undeath for domains (nets extra turning and extend spell)

grab whatever domain you want for the contemplative domain.

If you can stack nightsticks, grab a lot of those.

Take Persist spell/DMM Persist

Persist Mass lesser Vigor for fast healing for the whole party. Persist Divine Power when you get it along with righteous might and righteous wrath of the faithful. You'll be an impressive melee combatant with the ability to heal when need be.
#7
umarovi
May 19, 2008 19:07:04
Hello and thanks for taking a look. I want to build a character who can fit into a party that has no healing, however I do not want my character to just be the healer. I want to get some ideas on ways to go that make him more useful than just as the guy in back healing everyone.

I note you don't say you actually want to be a cleric. Consider playing a Crusader (from Tome of Battle) instead; it's pretty much what you described; capable of healing and doing other stuff at the same time. It's also good and playable right out of the box; you don't have to jump through hoops or exploit stuff to be good at your role.
#8
JaredSyn70
May 22, 2008 11:38:36 I do want to go cleric but possibly prestige class from there. I do like the divine metamagic part using turning attempts to make spells persistent. But dont i need to have Persistent spell before I take divine metamagic in order to select Persistent?
#9
kingrat55
May 22, 2008 12:29:05 You need Extend Spell for Persistent Spell and yes, you need Persistent Spell before taking Divine Metamagic feat.

I have almost finished my next (new) cohort:

Name: Shanny A'Sum Ni'Tessine
Female Moon Elf Cleric of Solonor Thelandira (Forgotten Realms, its the standard elf)

[note: EPIC CHAR]

Level: 7 Cleric / 5 Divine Disciple / 9 Seeker of Mystic Isle
Domains: Elf (Forgotten Realms domain), War, Good, Travel and Magic
CL: 20, 9th lvls spells, Spontaneous casting War Domain spells (PH2).

Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot (from Elf domain), Weapon Focus (Comp. Longbow, from War Domain) and Precise Shot
3 Zen Archery (Complete warrior)
6 Divine Ward (PH2)
9 Holy Warrior (Complete Champion)
12 Rapid Shot
15 Quicken Spell
18 Woodland Archer
21 Improved Spell Capacity (Epic Handbook)

You can easily change Divine Ward, Holy Warrior, Quicken Spell and Woodland Archer for: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic and Extra Turning.

Seeker of Mystic Isle is from Complete Divine (give travel and magic domains).

Divine Disciple is from Player Guide to Fearun (give one extra domain from your deity list).

I hope this will give you some helps.
#10
jaronk
May 22, 2008 13:05:19 Persistant Lesser Mass Vigor will handle all downtime healing for your party... you may still want the ability to do a spot heal once in a while, but that will cover everything else.

Another option is to turn your entire party undead (Dread Necromancers are great for this, make them all Necropolitans!) or make sure everyone has Tomb Tainted Soul, then create some Necrosis Carnexes at let those be the healers for the party.

JaronK
#11
gaffer
May 22, 2008 13:48:50 JaronK is on the right track with out of combat healing. Usually healing IN combat is a waste of time. You want to be a cleric/druid so you have access to wands, scrolls, randomly prepared spells and a quick in combat Heal or Cure Serious.

I guess anything with UMD works too, but you end up having to buy stuff to remove status ailments like Curses, Deafness, etc.
#12
JaredSyn70
May 23, 2008 5:49:27 Using DMM /PERSIST how many turn attempts does it use to make a 3rd level cleric spell persistent?

Also how can you take Planning and Undeath, I have yet to find a deity with both domains?
#13
tdsaw111
May 23, 2008 12:03:57 As I posted before, while the hardcore optimizers push to take both Planning and Undeath domains, I would not recommend it. Neither really gives you any useful spells to use in your Domain Spell Slots, so effectively you are gaining a feat, but losing one spell of each level each day. I am currently playing a DMM Persist Cleric, and I took Planning and Time. Time gives you access to some very nice spells, such as Haste at 3rd, and also Improved Initiative. I took the following:

Free Feat from Planning Domain: Extend
Free Feat from Time Domain: Improved Initiative
H: Persist
1st: DMM Persist
3rd: Extra Turning
6th: Extra Turning

I pump my Cha as high as possible, then made myself middle aged for -1 physical, +1 Mental stats. Eventually I am most likely going to pick up Human Paragon, as 1 CL is worth it for a Feat, +2 to any stat, and less importantly 1 skill that is always a class skill.

I ended up with 16 turrn attempts per day, before equipment. It costs 7 turn attempts per persisted spell. I also picked up a couple metamagic rods to allow me to freely pump other spells with extend, or reach. Overall I have greatly enjoyed this character, the party loves me for having Haste and some other decent buffs, and a Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor, is just crazy. None of the frontliners really need to worry about healing unless they get dropped in combat, then I just use my Reach MetaMagic Rod, to cast Cure Serious.Very versatile.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 JaredSyn70 May 19, 2008 9:27:23	Hello and thanks for taking a look. I want to build a character who can fit into a party that has no healing, however I do not want my character to just be the healer. I want to get some ideas on ways to go that make him more useful than just as the guy in back healing everyone. I have 90 points to distribute between my stats. Starting at 6th level. 16000 gold to start with. Any race is allowed including races with an ECL. I have seen several posts referring to persistant spells, is there a list of good spells to make persistant somewhere? Any and all books are available for class, feats and race. (Please for feats, races and classes indicate which book they are from) I am looking to be able to provide healing but not be solely a healing character. Was considering some sort of druid but may not always be in the woods, and may spend quite a bit of time in cities. Any way any and all ideas and assistance is greatly appreciated.
#2 surreal May 19, 2008 11:42:56	Check my "handy links" in my sig, read up on the sections for clerics, druids, and anything containing the word "heal". There is a LOT of information out there if you know where to look.
#3 kingrat55 May 19, 2008 12:25:31	I'm trying to build a epic cohort (support healer), at this moment she look like this: Name: To come hehe Moon Elf Cleric of Solonor Thelandira (Forgotten Realms, its the standard elf) Level: 21 Cleric Domains: Elf (Forgotten Realms) and War Feats: 1 Point Blank Shot (from Elf domain), Weapon Focus (Comp. Longbow, from War Domain) and Precise Shot 3 Zen Archery (Complete warrior) 6 Divine Ward (PH2) 9 Holy Warrior (Complete Champion) 12 Rapid Shot 15 Quicken Spell 18 Chaos Devotion (Complete Champion) 21 Improved Spell Capacity (Epic Handbook) She's not an optimal Divine Archer or cleric but (me and my DM) we don't like Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic feats combo, so i dont use them. P.S. You can switch lvl 3 and 18 feats if you want more dmg output at earlier lvls.
#4 tdsaw111 May 19, 2008 14:55:26	DMM Persist Clerics can be incredible. Basically you need to focus on having as high a Charisma as you can and a good Wisdom for spell access. Can you explain how your stat buy system works? Prioritize CHA/WIS then CON/INT then DEX/STR. Assuming you can pull 2 18s then you want them in CHA and WIS. Consider being middle aged. Gives a -1 penalty to physical stats, +1 to Mental. This is a small boost but one that can be useful. Domains: Planning and any other one. Hardcore Optimizers say to take Undeath, but honestly it isn't really needed. I prefer taking a useful Domain like Spells, Time, etc. I would rather lose a feat then a spell per level that is wasted. FEATS: Free: Extend Spell 1st: Persist Spell (Complete Arcane) Human: Divine MetaMagic(Complete Divine) 3rd: Extra Turning 6th: Extra Turning So, assuming you can manage a starting Cha of 18, you will have a +1 from level at 4th, +1 for age. Total of 20. This gives you a base of 8 turning attempts. +8 more for the two Extra Turnings, total 16. A Cha boost item, and a Night Stick brings this to 21. That is 3 spells a day to persist. This serves as a big boost to the party. This only takes 3 spells per day. Alternately, for equipment, invest in cheap MetaMagic Rods. Extend is useful, Reach, Maximize, etc. The Lesser Rods are not that bad for price, and they are very useful.
#5 reis May 19, 2008 15:11:20	do a board search or look in surreal's sig for "fist of raziel" or "ruby knight vindicator" or "cleric build" read and follow the posting guidelines stickied at the top of the forum before you ask for help with a build and you are a lot more likely to get useful information.
#6 aftercrescent May 19, 2008 19:02:09	cleric 2/Human paragon 3 (UA)/Divine oracle 2 (CD)/boneknight 10 (5N)/contemplative 1 (CD)/X2 Max wisdom/Cha. Dump Dex. get a 10 in Int and make Str/Con decent Take planning and undeath for domains (nets extra turning and extend spell) grab whatever domain you want for the contemplative domain. If you can stack nightsticks, grab a lot of those. Take Persist spell/DMM Persist Persist Mass lesser Vigor for fast healing for the whole party. Persist Divine Power when you get it along with righteous might and righteous wrath of the faithful. You'll be an impressive melee combatant with the ability to heal when need be.
#7 umarovi May 19, 2008 19:07:04	Hello and thanks for taking a look. I want to build a character who can fit into a party that has no healing, however I do not want my character to just be the healer. I want to get some ideas on ways to go that make him more useful than just as the guy in back healing everyone. I note you don't say you actually want to be a cleric. Consider playing a Crusader (from Tome of Battle) instead; it's pretty much what you described; capable of healing and doing other stuff at the same time. It's also good and playable right out of the box; you don't have to jump through hoops or exploit stuff to be good at your role.
#8 JaredSyn70 May 22, 2008 11:38:36	I do want to go cleric but possibly prestige class from there. I do like the divine metamagic part using turning attempts to make spells persistent. But dont i need to have Persistent spell before I take divine metamagic in order to select Persistent?
#9 kingrat55 May 22, 2008 12:29:05	You need Extend Spell for Persistent Spell and yes, you need Persistent Spell before taking Divine Metamagic feat. I have almost finished my next (new) cohort: Name: Shanny A'Sum Ni'Tessine Female Moon Elf Cleric of Solonor Thelandira (Forgotten Realms, its the standard elf) [note: EPIC CHAR] Level: 7 Cleric / 5 Divine Disciple / 9 Seeker of Mystic Isle Domains: Elf (Forgotten Realms domain), War, Good, Travel and Magic CL: 20, 9th lvls spells, Spontaneous casting War Domain spells (PH2). Feats: 1 Point Blank Shot (from Elf domain), Weapon Focus (Comp. Longbow, from War Domain) and Precise Shot 3 Zen Archery (Complete warrior) 6 Divine Ward (PH2) 9 Holy Warrior (Complete Champion) 12 Rapid Shot 15 Quicken Spell 18 Woodland Archer 21 Improved Spell Capacity (Epic Handbook) You can easily change Divine Ward, Holy Warrior, Quicken Spell and Woodland Archer for: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic and Extra Turning. Seeker of Mystic Isle is from Complete Divine (give travel and magic domains). Divine Disciple is from Player Guide to Fearun (give one extra domain from your deity list). I hope this will give you some helps.
#10 jaronk May 22, 2008 13:05:19	Persistant Lesser Mass Vigor will handle all downtime healing for your party... you may still want the ability to do a spot heal once in a while, but that will cover everything else. Another option is to turn your entire party undead (Dread Necromancers are great for this, make them all Necropolitans!) or make sure everyone has Tomb Tainted Soul, then create some Necrosis Carnexes at let those be the healers for the party. JaronK
#11 gaffer May 22, 2008 13:48:50	JaronK is on the right track with out of combat healing. Usually healing IN combat is a waste of time. You want to be a cleric/druid so you have access to wands, scrolls, randomly prepared spells and a quick in combat Heal or Cure Serious. I guess anything with UMD works too, but you end up having to buy stuff to remove status ailments like Curses, Deafness, etc.
#12 JaredSyn70 May 23, 2008 5:49:27	Using DMM /PERSIST how many turn attempts does it use to make a 3rd level cleric spell persistent? Also how can you take Planning and Undeath, I have yet to find a deity with both domains?
#13 tdsaw111 May 23, 2008 12:03:57	As I posted before, while the hardcore optimizers push to take both Planning and Undeath domains, I would not recommend it. Neither really gives you any useful spells to use in your Domain Spell Slots, so effectively you are gaining a feat, but losing one spell of each level each day. I am currently playing a DMM Persist Cleric, and I took Planning and Time. Time gives you access to some very nice spells, such as Haste at 3rd, and also Improved Initiative. I took the following: Free Feat from Planning Domain: Extend Free Feat from Time Domain: Improved Initiative H: Persist 1st: DMM Persist 3rd: Extra Turning 6th: Extra Turning I pump my Cha as high as possible, then made myself middle aged for -1 physical, +1 Mental stats. Eventually I am most likely going to pick up Human Paragon, as 1 CL is worth it for a Feat, +2 to any stat, and less importantly 1 skill that is always a class skill. I ended up with 16 turrn attempts per day, before equipment. It costs 7 turn attempts per persisted spell. I also picked up a couple metamagic rods to allow me to freely pump other spells with extend, or reach. Overall I have greatly enjoyed this character, the party loves me for having Haste and some other decent buffs, and a Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor, is just crazy. None of the frontliners really need to worry about healing unless they get dropped in combat, then I just use my Reach MetaMagic Rod, to cast Cure Serious.Very versatile.