Help with a sneaky skirmisher

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

SwordDisciple

Jun 04, 2009 19:08:42
This started as an idea when Carnivore was looking for the stats for a Quickling in his Pixie Handbook. I made a quick build and liked the idea so thought of making it with a non 3rd party Race..

The idea for this character is a high speed build that whips into and out of combat, wounding its opponent. It can survive in toe to toe melee but the focus is on mobility strikes (hence the use of skill tricks) rather than standing in front of its opponent hacking away.
This build is made as a 32 point buy without TOB or Psionics but obviously if a class from these can be substituted it could get stronger.


Velocidad - Xeph Hidden Striker

Templates:
Lloth-Touched
Draconic Creature

Stats:
Str: 32 (Base 14 -2 Race +8 templates +1 Levels +6 Belt +5 Manual)
Dex: 32 (Base 16 +2 Race +4 Levels +6 Gloves +4 Manual)
Con: 22 (Base 14 +8 templates)
Int: 16 (Base 16)
Wis: 8 (Base 8)
Cha: 10 (Base 8 +2 templates)

Classes: Scout 4/ Duskblade 1/ Barbarian 1/ Fighter 1/ Dread Commando 4/ Sword Dancer 7/ Fighter 1/ Scout 1

Feats:
Darkstalker (Flaw)
Improved Speed (Flaw)
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Bounding Assault
Rapid Blitz
Arterial Strike
Power Attack
Leap Attack
Combat Reflexes
Robilars Gambit

Skills of Note:
Balance 36
Climb 25
Escape Artist 33
Hide 67
Jump 68
Move Silently 40
Spot 13
Tumble 45
Note: No penalty on Hide or Move Silently when Moving, only -10 while Running or Charging

Skill Tricks:
Easy Escape - bonus to escape Grapple/Pin
Shrouded Dance - Use Move to gain Concealment
Extreme Leap - Horizontal Jump allows extra 10ft Move
Leaping Climber - Add Jump distance to start of Climb
Nimble Stand - If prone, stand as immediate action w/out AoO
Spot the Weak Point - Next attack is Touch attack
Walk the Walls - Run straight up wall for 1rnd
Wall Jumper - Leap from Wall as running Jump

Initiative: +14

Attack:
+1 Wounding Falchion: +32/+27/+22/+17, 2d4+16. If leaping as part of attack +2 to Attack and Damage and 3xPower Attack
Composite Longbow: +29/+24/+19/+14, 1d8+11.

Skirmish & Sudden Strike: +4d6

Hp's (Avg at 20th level): 227

AC (no items/armour): 31, 32 vs chosen dodge target, 35 vs AoO's, +1 When Skirmishing. 20% miss chance from Blurring and 50% from Ring of Blinking

Base Movement Speed: 155 - 30 Base +10 Scout (Base Enhancement) +10 Feat (Un-named bonus) +10 Barbarian (Un-named bonus) increased to 155ft by 7th Level Blade Dancer, Xeph is able to increase by 30 3/day so 185ft when using Xeph's Burst of Speed.

Duskblade Spells:
0: Acid Splash, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue
1: Swift Expeditious Retreat, 1 Free spell?

Class Abilities:
Scout: Skirmish (+2d6, +1 AC), Trapfinding, Battle fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge, Fast Movement +10ft, Trackless Step, Evasion
Duskblade: Arcane Attunement, Armored Mage (light), Combat Casting, Arcane Channeling
Barbarian: Fast movement, Rage 1/day
Dread Commando: Sudden Strike +2d6, Team Initiative Bonus +4, Armored Ease, Stealthy Movement
Sword Dancer: Acrobatics (+20), Leap of the Clouds, Fast Movement 3rd Increase, Enchanted Blade I, Ride the Wind, Acrobatic Attack, Enchanted Blade II

The idea for combat: From Hiding, leap in to strike target flat-footed at (Power Attack 5) +29/+24/+20 for 2d4+16 +2 Leap +3xPowerAttack(15) +3d6 Sneak/Skirmish (+6 Arterial/Wounding Strikes) - Average Damage if all hit is 138 (and 25% chance of Critical when using scabbards power), move away using nearby cover and Hide as part of move (minimum Hide 68 with no penalty for movement). Continue to do this, either making the target bleed out with cumulative wounds over time or until it has sustained enough damage to kill it.

To gain cover he has 8 Tower shields that stand by themselves. He places these around his enemies and ducks behind them to gain the cover to rehide (unless it's dark when he can do this himself with hide in plain sight)

Magic Items:
Skin of Power Damping
Collar of Umbral Metamorphisis
Ring of Blink
Ring of Protection +5
Gloves of Dex +6
Bracers of Armour +5
Belt of Battle/Str +6
Boots of Sidestepping
+1 Wounding Falchion
Manual of Gainful Exercise +5
Manual of Quickness of Action +4
Scabbard of Keen Edges
Salve of Slipperiness x3
Bead of Force
Millennial Chainmail (with Greater Blurring, Nimble, Landing enchantments)
8 Tower shields that stand by themselves (double cost payed)

Thanks to those who added their input to helping me make this
#2

sofawall

Jun 04, 2009 20:29:59
Why fighter?

Why duskblade?
#3

SwordDisciple

Jun 04, 2009 20:51:43
Fighter for the Extra Feat to get Spring Attack early

Duskblade because a prereq for Sword Dancer is the ability to cast Arcane or Divine spells

Thanks for looking Sofa
#4

sofawall

Jun 04, 2009 21:02:20
I was wondering, because without fighter, you could add another class, since you seem to have feats free. Fast Spring Attack is handy, though.

What level are you starting at?

Also, Lemme see if I can find a way to grab you Sleight of Hand. I seem to recall this one feat...

EDIT: Nope, found no way. Someone else might, though.
#5

SwordDisciple

Jun 04, 2009 21:18:36
We are starting at 8th.. Looking at running through to 16th but hopefully go higher.

That would be awesome if you know of a way.. That way I can use a light weapon and try to make it seem like an opponent just appears to start sprouting wounds
#6

Weezel

Jun 05, 2009 10:17:48
You'd probably get a lot of use out of the Darkstalker feat with this build, since without it anything with extra senses (blindsight, tremorsense etc) will be able to ignore your hide check and counter-attack. If flaws are allowed you could start with this, or take it at a later level.
#7

blightersbane

Jun 05, 2009 11:04:28
if your asking how to get more speed you already picked some of the classes

1st barbarian = fast movement + max 12 -hit pionts at 1st level
3rd scout +10' move at 11th +20' move

Theres always monk?

I discovered a class on wotc called swift blade and that seemed built upon speed entirely.

My question is for a light armored quick striker you dont have improved uncanny dodge, imp evasion, spring attack, mobility? And if your melee is predicated upon the target not seeing you leap in at that level your going to run across a lot of touchsights, blindsights, tremorsense, readied actions, set for charge and just plain good spot checks.

Blightersbane
#8

max_kravenoff

Jun 05, 2009 11:19:08
Well i think you can trade duskblade and fighter by one level of Martial Conjurer with abrupt jaunt. (just ban ench and evo, and focus in self buff)

Lose familiar for abrupt jaunt
Lose scribe scroll for a fighter feat

You can cast spells from a better list, but lose one base attack point and took a hit to your HP.

Now you have a "free level" in your build, may be a second Barbarian level to get Uncanny Dodge, if you need a base class, or something from ToB.

And for more speed without casting so much, comes to my mind expeditious retreat, or the swift version.
#9

nickresonance

Jun 05, 2009 17:58:07
One point I'd make, and this is assuming that your reference to Blade Dancer in our build is the 3.0 OA PrC. It doesn't multiply your speed at all, as far as I can tell. Instead, it simply sets your base speed to be 60 feet (if your base speed is normally 30) as long as you wear light or no armour and don't carry a heavy load (I think). I always interpreted that to mean that any bonuses like the barbarian's fast movement are applied to the modified base speed, instead of acting as a multiplier. I could be dead wrong, though.
#10

SwordDisciple

Jun 05, 2009 20:59:08
You'd probably get a lot of use out of the Darkstalker feat with this build, since without it anything with extra senses (blindsight, tremorsense etc) will be able to ignore your hide check and counter-attack. If flaws are allowed you could start with this, or take it at a later level.

Ha! I don't know how I could miss Darkstalker! Thanks for reminding me! :D

if your asking how to get more speed you already picked some of the classes

1st barbarian = fast movement + max 12 -hit pionts at 1st level
3rd scout +10' move at 11th +20' move

Theres always monk?

I discovered a class on wotc called swift blade and that seemed built upon speed entirely.

My question is for a light armored quick striker you dont have improved uncanny dodge, imp evasion, spring attack, mobility? And if your melee is predicated upon the target not seeing you leap in at that level your going to run across a lot of touchsights, blindsights, tremorsense, readied actions, set for charge and just plain good spot checks.

Blightersbane

I'll look at Swiftblade. I'm a little dubious on it because the DM is all about what books he has (which is most mind you) and may not allow it even if it is on the WOTC website.

Edit: nope, you have to have at least 5 Wizard levels but thanks for the suggestion!

Improved Uncanny Dodge and Improved Evasion aren't totally needed, as long as he has Evasion I think. And he has Mobility and Spring Attack

Cheers!

Well i think you can trade duskblade and fighter by one level of Martial Conjurer with abrupt jaunt. (just ban ench and evo, and focus in self buff)

Lose familiar for abrupt jaunt
Lose scribe scroll for a fighter feat

You can cast spells from a better list, but lose one base attack point and took a hit to your HP.

Now you have a "free level" in your build, may be a second Barbarian level to get Uncanny Dodge, if you need a base class, or something from ToB.

And for more speed without casting so much, comes to my mind expeditious retreat, or the swift version.

Martial Conjurer? Where is this found? But great idea! Thanks!

One point I'd make, and this is assuming that your reference to Blade Dancer in our build is the 3.0 OA PrC. It doesn't multiply your speed at all, as far as I can tell. Instead, it simply sets your base speed to be 60 feet (if your base speed is normally 30) as long as you wear light or no armour and don't carry a heavy load (I think). I always interpreted that to mean that any bonuses like the barbarian's fast movement are applied to the modified base speed, instead of acting as a multiplier. I could be dead wrong, though.

Hmm.. Scout is an increase to the base speed but not Barbarian..

Starting at 3rd level, a scout’s gains a +10 foot enhancement bonus to her base land speed.

Thanks, I'll have to look for other ways (there are some at the bottom of the original post but I'm open to all ideas)
#11

xakypshalorn

Jun 05, 2009 21:31:12
Actually, look again Sword Disciple, Scout is an Enhancement Bonus to speed, meanwhile Barbarian's is closer to a base speed increase. (It may or may not be, depending on your DM and his oppinion of the 'not in heavy armor' clause.)

Anyways, you seem interested in sneaking, so I have one class that's very good for speed and sneaking if you can fit it in somehow.

Rokugan Ninja.

The 8th level ability, Shadow Run.

The benefit? An untyped increase to all movement speeds = 5x your constitution bonus.
#12

SwordDisciple

Jun 05, 2009 22:03:43
Wow.. I might have a play around and see if it will work..
#13

xakypshalorn

Jun 05, 2009 22:10:41
Yeah, I'm actually playing a build focused on that ability. Lolth-touched, Mineral Warrior Dwarf. It can get really obscene with optimized constitution. Also it fully stacks with Haste/Expedious retreat, for a total of 30+conbonusx5.

Edit: One more thing you should know, it's full BAB and sneak attack every odd level.
#14

SwordDisciple

Jun 06, 2009 1:01:03
I thought Rokugan Ninja was in OA? But no.. where is it?
#15

Weezel

Jun 06, 2009 1:36:30
Martial Conjurer? Where is this found? But great idea! Thanks!

Unearthed Arcana has the alternate class feature where you can swap Scribe Scroll for a fighter bonus feat (usually Improved Initiative for wizards).


Hmm.. Scout is an increase to the base speed but not Barbarian..
Thanks, I'll have to look for other ways (there are some at the bottom of the original post but I'm open to all ideas)

Keep in mind both the Barbarian and Scout give an enhancement bonus to speed. As this is the same type they don't stack. They also will not stack with most spell and item boosts as they are almost all also enhancement bonuses
#16

SwordDisciple

Jun 06, 2009 2:33:12
Ahh cool Thinking of scouting the Bloodlines in UA as well

Is the Barbarians Fast Movement Ex an enhancement? It appears to not have been classified as an enhancement in the PHB? Or is enhancement a default if it is not classified?
#17

xakypshalorn

Jun 06, 2009 4:25:47
Barbarian is NOT an enhancement unless it was Erratta'd and I've never seen any posts on these boards to indicate that.

And Rokugan Ninja is from the Rokugan Campaign Setting. (if your not sure where you can.. acquire it... I know a few places you can still get your hands on it. PM me if you think you need the help.)
#18

Weezel

Jun 06, 2009 5:45:22
Yep right you are, I just wasn't paying attention when I read barbarian

Doesn't matter much though since I presume the movement will be given up for pounce with this build anyhow?
#19

SwordDisciple

Jun 06, 2009 18:41:26
Barbarian is NOT an enhancement unless it was Erratta'd and I've never seen any posts on these boards to indicate that.

And Rokugan Ninja is from the Rokugan Campaign Setting. (if your not sure where you can.. acquire it... I know a few places you can still get your hands on it. PM me if you think you need the help.)

Thanks I'll see how I get on but if I can't get it i'll PM you. And cheers for the offer!

Yep right you are, I just wasn't paying attention when I read barbarian

Doesn't matter much though since I presume the movement will be given up for pounce with this build anyhow?

Nope.. I want movement and he'll get two wounding attacks on a Bounding Assault - aiming for 3 whan BAB is high enough :D
#20

phaedrusxy

Jun 06, 2009 18:58:53
You'd probably get a lot of use out of the Darkstalker feat with this build, since without it anything with extra senses (blindsight, tremorsense etc) will be able to ignore your hide check and counter-attack.

They can still counter attack him by readying actions. He still appears while he's attacking, AFAIK. He only hides as he moves away.

And does this build not have Hide in Plain Sight? You could get the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis to give you the Dark template to gain it. It also gives you a bonus to Hide, and some other stuff.
#21

SwordDisciple

Jun 07, 2009 2:10:04
Yes the collar is definately a must for this build

And thats essentially the idea, they wont be able to hit him unless they ready. Hence the idea of Combat Reflexes and Robilars Gambit?
#22

nickresonance

Jun 07, 2009 2:24:14
Nope.. I want movement and he'll get two wounding attacks on a Bounding Assault - aiming for 3 whan BAB is high enough :D

Rapid Blitz requires a BAB of +18. Unless you can get a bonus feat that lets you take Rapid Blitz, you won't be able to get it - the scout levels rob you of a point of BAB, so at level 18 (which will be your last feat level pre-epic) you won't qualify.
#23

sofawall

Jun 07, 2009 20:23:30
They can still counter attack him by readying actions. He still appears while he's attacking, AFAIK. He only hides as he moves away.

And does this build not have Hide in Plain Sight? You could get the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis to give you the Dark template to gain it. It also gives you a bonus to Hide, and some other stuff.

With the Collar you still need concealment or cover, you can just hide while being observed.
#24

xakypshalorn

Jun 07, 2009 20:39:44
Just wondering, what exactly is that single level of scout in there for? I don't see anything that requires Skirmish, and if there is, I'm sure we can find a full BAB skirmish PrC for you.

(Also could you please tell us what exactly you benefit from the item scout qualifies you for?)
#25

SwordDisciple

Jun 07, 2009 20:54:41
For Hide in Plain Sight, he just needs to move behind something to rehide.

There's 3 levels of scout for an increase in Base move, Skirmish is just an added benefit and will grant extra damage & AC as he leaps in to attack. Scout also gives most of the skills as class skills that are required to make this a sneaky type character
#26

xakypshalorn

Jun 07, 2009 21:11:09
Right, it's just movement and skills and happens to come with some minor damage and ac boost. Got it. Is LA buyoff available for this build or not? (and would you be interested in seeing a rework in a different path?)

Edit: Right, it is lol, just counted the levels and templates.
#27

SwordDisciple

Jun 07, 2009 21:25:38
Right, it's just movement and skills and happens to come with some minor damage and ac boost. Got it. Is LA buyoff available for this build or not? (and would you be interested in seeing a rework in a different path?)

Edit: Right, it is lol, just counted the levels and templates.

Absolutely Always open to ideas!


Some direction Ideas I've had thus far:

tempted to take out Draconic Template and add Shadow which nets some nice benefits but loses 2 Str, Con and Cha.

Drop the last two levels of Duskblade, add Titan Bloodline Which nets some ok boosts - +2 Jump, +1 Str and Power Attack which gives me a free feat but drops to one spare level (which could be Scout for a bonus feat - for two extra feats)
#28

max_kravenoff

Jun 08, 2009 0:00:25
Alternate Class Features from SRD

At the bottom is the Martial Wizard.

Abrupt Jaunt is an ACF from Complete Mage i think, for conjurer wizards.


Arcane Strike (CW) can be nice, but kinda difficult with your build (3rd level arcane spells requiered =( )