Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xamas Nov 22, 2008 9:32:23	im trying to build a good thief character, and have got most of it down i just need some help with spells and equipment. the character is: Shadow-walkers human rogue 1/ factotum 3/ spell thief 1/ chameleon 10/ telfammer shadowlord 5. str 12; +1 dex 28 (16 + 2 + 6 + 4); +9 con 12 (14 - 2); +1 int 40 (18 + 5 + 5 + 6 + 6); +15 wis 14; +2 cha 21 (15 + 6); +5 fort +6 ref +25 will +15 F1 blind fight F2 dodge H1 able learner L1 mobility L3 weapon finesse L6 two weapon fighting L9 spring attack L12 improved two weapon fighting L15 craven L18 Font of Inspiration C2 floating feat spell like abilities: Shadow mask 3/day Darkness 3/day Shadow spray 3/day Displacement 2/day Dimension door 3/day Evard’s black tentacles 1/day Shadow walk 3/day level 1 arcane spell 1/day equipment 2 masterwork +1 assassinating wounding daggers (64604gp) +6 int item (36000gp) +6 dex item (36000gp) +6 cha item (36000gp) +5 Tome of Clear Thought (137500gp) +4 Manual of Quickness of Action (110000gp) this is as far as i have gotten. are there any guides on what useful spells and equipment i should use. thanks in advance xamas
#2 pithica Nov 23, 2008 9:43:59	Some of this may be too generic for you...but I hope it helps. That's a nice build there. Though, you may want to consider trading one of those feats for Master spellthief so that Spellthief stacks with the other two caster levels for what you can do with it. Sneak Attacking Spellcasters Hunter's Eye Wizards Save or Be Screwed Spell-list God's Tools-Evocation God's Tools-Abjuration God's Gifts-Transmutation God's Eyes-Divination God's Tools-Necromancy God's Tools-Conjuration God's Tools-Illusion God's Tools-Enchantment the 'Definitive' Sorcerer Spell List (3.5) Shneeky's Sorcerer Spell Picks/Guide Bunko's Bargain Basement Alchemical Items that are 'worth it' List of Magical 'locations' You should definitely get Magebane for your daggers. That's 2d6 damage to almost everything that isn't a straight priest (and even a few of them) in FR. If you can get away with it, Enfeebling from BoED is also very strong choice for the daggers. (does strength damage on crits with no save) You should also get a Rogues Vest for the extra d6 to Sneak Attack. I think a Hat of Disguise and a shiftweave are both very useful (and cheap) items for any rogue type.
#3 xamas Nov 23, 2008 13:48:31	thanks ill have a read through those threads. the master spellthief i dont have access to, but most of the other things i should be able to use.
#4 xamas Nov 24, 2008 11:19:42	A quick question. master spell thief stacks with other caster levels to determine highest level of spell stolen. The Chameleon gives fast caster level progression so that after 10 levels you cast as a level 20 caster. The Telflamm Shadowlord also gives a caster level of 5. Would this all add up to let me steal spells as a level 26 spell thief? And thus would I steal spells as an epic spell thief. Is there a progression for epic spell thief? thanks xamas
#5 pithica Nov 24, 2008 12:55:52	By my reading, it would indeed allow you to steal (but not cast) as a 26th level Spellthief. Which is why I suggested it. As far as I know, though, there is no Epic Spellthief written up, and I don't think there is a progression for stolen spells beyond 20th level either way. I think stealing 9th level spells from casters is plenty, though. I would recommend grabbing Godsblood spelltheft so that you can cast them once stolen (as domain spells). Luck domain is a good option for this, steal 9th, Cast Miracle, mimic any 8th or lower cleric spell or 7th or lower of any spell.
#6 ChristopherGroves Nov 24, 2008 14:26:16	Nah, the feat needs close reading. Master Spellthief stacks your Spellthief levels with "levels of other arcane spellcasting classes" to determine what level of spell you can steal. That one is clear. Factotum specifically allows you to mimic spells as an SLA ... so that won't add into the mix. Rogue doesn't add into the mix, and you'll have to check with your DM on Chameleon (the language says "arcane spellcasting class") The second bit of the feat says that your "spellthief and arcane spellcasting levels stack to determine your caster level" ... and this is where it gets tricky. "Caster level" is a specific thing. If the feat said "your caster level from all arcane classes stack with each other to determine your caster for all classes" then that'd specifically be adding "caster levels" to each other. It doesn't, so your DM is going to have to decide what a "spellcaster level" is ... is it an actual level in a spellcasting class? is it caster level?
#7 pithica Nov 24, 2008 14:33:21	The arcane caster level of a Chameleon 10 with arcane focus up is 20 (read it, seriously, it specifically says that in the description). Teflaramm Shadowlord adds another 5, for 25. Spellthief adds one for 26. Seems pretty clear to me. Noone said Factotum or rogue came into it at all. EDIT: Correction.... The level of spells stolen would be equal to a 16th level Spellthief. CG has the reading correct, it is the actual levels in the class and not caster level for that portion of the feat. Your caster level for Chameleon spells would be base of 21, and your caster level for TS spells would be base 6.
#8 ChristopherGroves Nov 24, 2008 14:51:48	Right on the stealing of spells. ... A liberal DM would give you (at 20) a CL of 1 (spellthief) + 20 (chameleon) +5 (telflammer). Master Spellthief doesn't restrict which classes add together. You'd have to have your arcane focus active for that to work. A DM that rules it is based on the class-levels would give you a CL of 16 with everything. A DM that is going to be ultraconservative and say that Chameleon doesn't help at all will give you a CL of 6 with Telflammer and 20 w/ Chameleon.