So I'm about to introduce a character in to 2 games (a PC in one and a NPC in the other which I'm running). He's a halfling that specializes in throwing (who'd have guessed right) daggers and various other objects. So far I'm thinking Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5 but, I can't seem to think of anything else to give him, maybe another 5 Rogue? I was also thinking about taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler for Int to damage but, that only works in melee (unless your DM is super lenient).
As far as feats are concerned I'm thinking something like this: Point Blank Shot (1st Level), Far Shot (Flaw 1), Percise Shot (Flaw 2), Weapon Focus: Dagger (3rd Level), Rapid Shot (6th Level), Throw Anything (9th Level), Quick Draw (from Master Thrower), then from here I'm not sure. O! Just so you guys know, I can't play anything with a level adjustment that's one of 2 reasons I chose a Halfling (the other being because they get a +1 on attack rolls with thrown weapons). I'm also debating on playing the Halfling that get's an extra feat instead of a +1 on all the saves just so I can replace Rapid Shot down the road but, I do like the bonus on saves. Any positive help is appreciated, thanks.
EDIT: My DM might also let me play a variant Rogue that gives me Poison Use instead of Trap Finding and a +1 DC on any poison I make instead of Trap Sense. Is this variant worth it or should I go with the normal Rogue? Lastly the character is also wearing Bracers of Extended Range so he can throw anything 40ft. any ideas of other magic items I could use? My DM's super cool when it comes to magic items so I was thinking about getting Gauntlets of Infinite Blades.
Gauntlets of Infinite Blades: Looks awesome until you get to the Swift Action activation. Bleh. This means it will only create one dagger per round.
The last 5 levels could be well-put into a Warblade level and Bloodstorm Blade for more throwy goodness. Remember that only your attacks within 30ft get Sneak Attack, though. More Rogue doesn't hurt either, however.
I was also thinking about taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler for Int to damage but, that only works in melee (unless your DM is super lenient).
Most DMs I've played with have said it applies to ranged attacks with light finessable weapons as well, like daggers.
As far as feats are concerned I'm thinking something like this: Point Blank Shot (1st Level), Far Shot (Flaw 1), Percise Shot (Flaw 2), Weapon Focus: Dagger (3rd Level), Rapid Shot (6th Level), Throw Anything (9th Level), Quick Draw (from Master Thrower), then from here I'm not sure. O! Just so you guys know, I can't play anything with a level adjustment that's one of 2 reasons I chose a Halfling (the other being because they get a +1 on attack rolls with thrown weapons). I'm also debating on playing the Halfling that get's an extra feat instead of a +1 on all the saves just so I can replace Rapid Shot down the road but, I do like the bonus on saves. Any positive help is appreciated, thanks.
First off why Throw Anything? Kind of a wierd feat for your build.
Okay then Strongheart Halfling Thrower
- Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, Flaws 2x
- Rogue
- Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting, Penetrating Strike variant from Dungeonscape
- Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
- Swashbuckler
- Swashbuckler - Weapon Focus Dagger
- Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
- Master Thrower
- Master Thrower - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
- Whisperknife - B: Rapid Shot
- Whisperknife
- Whisperknife - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
- Master Thrower
- Master Thrower
- Invisible Blade- Combat Reflexes
- Invisible Blade
- Invisible Blade
- Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
- Invisible Blade
- Whisperknife
Also look into getting a Rogue's Vest (MIC) and a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM).
If the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades does not work out, see if you can convince your DM to let you turn this item below from a Quiver of Anariel into say a Bandoleer of Infinite Daggers. (easy fix to replace the words quiver with bandoleer and arrow with dagger)
Taken from The Lone Drow: Companions of the HallQuiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.
Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.
Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.
Ya I know about the sneak attack 30ft. thing. I'm not super big on ToB unless I'm going straight ToB classes but, Blood Storm Blade would free up a feat (throw anything) and give me the returning thing plus more HP and the Weapon Aptitude is fun. I don't know, maybe a 1 level dip into Warblade (taking only Iron Heart manuevers and stances) then 4 levels of Blood Storm Blade. Which now after looking at it a little looks really helpful for extremely fun throwing stuff. I'll probably take the Craven Feat for max Sneak Attack.
I'm also looking for a way to get more skill points without Nymph's Kiss because I don't really want to play a good character (I'm thinking more of a Neutral character). All the classes after Rogue only get 4+int which is ok but, I'm a skill junkey so I'm used to at least 6+int. If I can't figure out how to get more I guess it will do though.
Does anyone know how the Halfling variant Rogue from Races of the Wild works? Does it mean that my ranged sneak attack is +2d6 at 1st level and my melee sneak attack just doesn't exist? That's what I drew from it but, it's written very confusing(ly).
EDIT: what book is Whisper Knife in? And thinking back on it, you're right about throw anything. I was really just going to take it for kicks and giggles. "I pick up the dead Barbarians Great Sword and throw it 30ft. at the unsuspecting Wizard."
get more I guess it will do though.Does anyone know how the Halfling variant Rogue from Races of the Wild works? Does it mean that my ranged sneak attack is +2d6 at 1st level and my melee sneak attack just doesn't exist? That's what I drew from it but, it's written very confusing(ly).
Correct, Sort of. Your ranged sneak attacks would deal +2d6 sneak attack damage at first level and your melee attacks would deal +0 sneak attack damage at first level. The melee sneak attack is still there so feats like Craven would still add the +level damage on the melee sneak attack. So at first level a halfling substitution rogue with the Craven feat would deal +2d6+1 sneak attack damage on ranged sneak attacks and +1 sneak attack damage on melee sneak attacks.
get more I guess it will do though.EDIT: what book is Whisper Knife in?
Races of the Wild, page 135
I actully found the Whisper Knife shortly after you posted and I'm definitely going in to it. That frees up feats and makes things really easy although, I still think Blood Storm Blade would be fun to go in to. I've just been informed that I can't use the Strongheart Halfling 
but, that just means I'll have to fit Craven in somewhere else. I think my DM will let me use Insightful Strike with Daggers (and other light/finessable weapons) that can be thrown now that I read it again but, I'm not 100% sure right now I'm just hoping he won't care because Int to damage would help out.
I might do this as a build. I wouldn't get Greater Two Weapon Fighting or Intelligence to Damage but, I'd get Uncanny Dodge at 4th level (which would help out greatly), Improved Uncanny Dodge, Evasion and Improved Evasion (which was in your build too). I also think I'm going to use the Halfling Variant Rogue to emphasize my thrown attacks.
1: Rogue: Point Blank Shot (1st), Precise Shot (Flaw 1), Far Shot (Flaw 2)
2: Rogue:
3: Rogue: Weapon Focus - Dagger (3rd), Penetrating Strike Variant Rogue from Dungeonscape
4: Rogue:
5: Rogue:
6: Invisible Blade: Weapon Finesse (6th)
7: Invisible Blade:
8: Master Thrower: Quick Draw (Bonus)
9: Master Thrower: Craven (9th)
10: Whisper Knife: Rapid Shot (Bonus)
11: Whisper Knife:
12: Master Thrower: Two Weapon Fighting (12th)
13: Master Thrower: Snatch Arrows (Bonus)
14: Master Thrower:
15: Invisible Blade: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (15th)
16: Invisible Blade:
17: Invisible Blade:
18: Whisper Knife: Improved Precise Shot (18th)
19: Whisper Knife:
20: Whisper Knife:
Gloves of Endless Javelins (MiC p194) Free action activation, creates +1 Force javelins. Goodbye DR, incorporeal miss chance.
Gloves of Endless Javelins (MiC p194) Free action activation, creates +1 Force javelins. Goodbye DR, incorporeal miss chance.
Lol, I was wondering when someone would post that, I didn't know what they were called
haha, I freakin' love those gloves... I convinced my current DM (he's a little...inexperienced at being a DM) to let me switch them to gloves of endless daggers. palm throwing force daggers? yes please.
Are they in the Magic Item Compendium or the DMG? My DM would probably let me make them guantlets of Endless Daggers, he might charge me slightly more knowing about the palm throwing thing though.
EDIT: Well actually, he if anything I think he'd make them cheaper because daggers are cheaper than javelins... Hm... Maybe I can convince him to make them cheaper lol. With my luck though he'll make some Whisper Gnome assassins that have the Silence thing that can be used with a weapon and after throwing 1 or 2 daggers I'll get hit with a crossbow bolt that silences me.
Personally, I like Halfling Paragon to supplement a master thrower. Bonus to dex, extra damage with thrown weapons, and the racial save bonus gets a bump, too. I just use the lightfoot halfling, but if you wanted to use the paragon, you could possibly talk the DM into a bonus feat where you'd normally get the save increase (since that's what you lose between the racial variants).
Also, I really like power throw with a thrower after getting weak spot. I do that before TWF, mainly because it's cheaper to enchant six daggers over twelve (I like +1 teleporting daggers to start off). If money's no issue or you're just going to carry a bunch of mundane daggers, you can just swap the feats around. And while I use Pious Templar over Whisperknife or Invisible Blade, it's easy to switch it out. Ultimately, here's what I came up with:
- Halfling Paragon 1 - Weapon Focus (dagger)
- Fighter 1 - Point Blank Shot
- Fighter 2 - Precise Shot, Far Shot
- Halfling Paragon 2
- Halfling Paragon 3
- Fighter 3 - Brutal Throw
- Master Thrower 1
- Master Thrower 2
- Master Thrower 3 - Power Attack
- Master Thrower 4
- Master Thrower 5
- Fighter 4 - Power Throw, True Believer
- Pious Templar 1
- Pious Templar 2
- Pious Templar 3 - Weapon Specialization (dagger), Ranged Weapon Mastery (piercing)
- Pious Templar 4 - Two-Weapon Fighting
- Pious Templar 5
- Pious Templar 6 - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
- Pious Templar 7
- Pious Templar 8 - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Sources: Unearthed Arcana, Player's Handbooks I and II, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, and Complete Adventurer
You end up missing only one BAB, get evasion and mettle, DR, 12/10/9 for base saves (not counting the racial +2 you'd get), and fourth level divine spells by 20. Just my little spin. Let me know what you guys think.
I like the build apart from the spells but, that's just because I'm not big on using spells. What book is the Pious Templar in?
I like the build apart from the spells but, that's just because I'm not big on using spells. What book is the Pious Templar in?
Pious Templar is in Complete Divine. You draw from either paladin or blackguard for the spellcasting; so don't get anything really fancy, but it's a nice little addition. The class is likeable even without the spells in my opinion (kind of a "Oh, and I get some spells, too? Nice).
Only other thing I failed to note is for this to work you need to follow a deity with a preferred weapon of daggers. Dallah Thaun or Brandobaris from Races of The Wild are both halfling gods that favor the dagger, so this is easy to work with.
Ya, I think I'm doing this build but, I might play a human now which would take away the Whisper Knife and bring me back to the Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5 (not necessarily in that order though)
1: Rogue: Point Blank Shot (1st), Precise Shot (Flaw 1), Far Shot (Flaw 2)
2: Rogue:
3: Rogue: Weapon Focus - Dagger (3rd), Penetrating Strike Variant Rogue from Dungeonscape
4: Rogue:
5: Rogue:
6: Invisible Blade: Weapon Finesse (6th)
7: Invisible Blade:
8: Master Thrower: Quick Draw (Bonus)
9: Master Thrower: Craven (9th)
10: Whisper Knife: Rapid Shot (Bonus)
11: Whisper Knife:
12: Master Thrower: Two Weapon Fighting (12th)
13: Master Thrower: Snatch Arrows (Bonus)
14: Master Thrower:
15: Invisible Blade: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (15th)
16: Invisible Blade:
17: Invisible Blade:
18: Whisper Knife: Improved Precise Shot (18th)
19: Whisper Knife:
20: Whisper Knife:
Edit: Ignore that, realized afterwards it was Invisible Blade. hehe
Just pointing out if you wanted to go that route, you'd need six levels of rogue (or a dip of fighter for an extra feat if you prefer), as whisperknife has a BAB prereq of +4.
I put your build together in an Excel sheet (That's how I make my character progressions), and while you get nice sneak attack dice, lots of class features, and a huge reflex save... just be aware your other two saves were only looking like a +4 base bonus at level 20.
I'd also get all 5 master thrower levels in succession because weak spot is the major draw to the class, but that's just my opinion.
I was honestly thinking about going Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 2/Master Thrower 5/Invisible Blade 3/Whisper Knife 5. I have a question though, if I take TWF and Rapid Shot and throw one weapon from each hand plus an additional one with Rapid Shot won't I be taking a -4 on all the attacks? I'm debating on whether or not TWF is the way to go.
Yeah, it would be a -4 penalty total. But, if you can free a feat up you could get Improved Rapid Shot from Complete Warrior. That negates the Rapid Shot penalty.
I like TWF on throwers at later levels unless gold flows like water (since that means you can throw 14 daggers a round with palm throw), but for early level gameplay it is just too expensive to get all those daggers.
The only problem with Improved Rapid Shot is that a prerequisite is Many Shot which, is useless to me as a thrower. Now that I look at the set up of my build I think I'm going to go Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 3 or 4/Master Thrower 5/then finish out Invisible Blade. So I can add my entire Intelligence bonus to AC before I go through Master Thrower.
If you go that route, keep in mind you can't wear armor and get the Int bonus to your AC. Probably the biggest reason I never cared for invisible blade.
Good point about Improved Rapid Shot. I have it on an archer I'm currently playing in a buddy's campaign. I took a lot of fighter levels so Manyshot wasn't an issue... heh, probably why I forgot that prereq.
I have a feeling I'm not really going to be able wear very many suits of armor. The way we're rolling stats in the games we're doing tend to give the players high stats and we get an 18 for free so that means my dexterity modifier will most likely be a 5 at first level and my intelligence will probably be my next highest stat.
Gotcha. I like thistledown padded from Races of the Wild for high dexterity-based characters; mainly for enchantments, but you can get armor bonus from bracers of armor anyways.
I should between a +8 and +10 to AC once I finish out Invisible Blade (from Dex and Int). If I wanted to be a douche I could dip in to Chaos Monk for Wis to AC and then dip in to Battle Dancer for Cha to AC (both of those are from Dragon) but, I don't think I'll do that because I don't really like taking 1 level dips into classes.
If you do dip into monk pick up the Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu Genius feat so that you can avoid MAD by using Int and Dex instead of Int, Dex, Wis, and Cha.
I'm already adding Intelligence to AC from Invisible Blade why would I need Kung Fu Genius? I just said that because it would be funny to add 4 stats into AC, if I wanted I know how to add all your stats except Strength to AC but, it wouldn't fit this build. I don't have to worry about MAD because the people I play with always give PC's pretty good stats. The only buy out we've ever done was a 84 point buy out which is an average of a 14 in all your stats.