Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 havariel Aug 07, 2010 15:58:51	Okay i need help . Again I have decided to play bard like guy who can talk his way out of almost anything but still have enough juice to take down some foes. he starts as a diplomancer and then boosts spellcasting here is with what i came about with: silverbrow human bard 2/marshal 1/binder 1/warlock 3/human paragon 3/ sublime chord 1 / eldricht theurge 9 feats : dragonfire inspiration , song of the heart , words of creation , weapon finesse , combat panache   If you see any flaws , please let me know
#2 angellusmortus Aug 07, 2010 17:10:31	I suppose I'm just slightly confused as to the ultimate goal you want to fill. Your feat setup looks like the style of a Melee bard, minus Snowflake Wardance, but your class setup and descriptions are more the spellcaster route. Why did you choose those feats, if you don't mind my asking?
#3 havariel Aug 08, 2010 2:51:41	im sorry for the confusion , i appear to have forgotten to add snowflake wardance to my feat list It would be somewhat gish like build ; clarification on feats with song of the heart ( i believe thats the name) and words of creation I get at first level +4d6 with dragonfire inspiration at first level ( flaws) weapon finesse and snowflake are there to compensate lack of strength while twfing ( human paragon bonus feat) The thing is i dont know will it function or not. And i am stuck with feat selection beyond level 9 Perhaps i could go with anima mage instead of eldricht theurge Your critique is more than welcome
#4 Balthanon Aug 08, 2010 8:41:59	You want to be a melee combatant with a base attack bonus of 11 at 20th level?  (50% of which is lost in the first 5 levels of the build, meaning you're terrible in battle right from the get go.)  I would back off on that or change the build up, unless you're planning on only fighting when you're using Tenser's Transformation.  Given that you only ever get a +1 bonus on your inspire courage and have exactly 2 uses of Bardic Music per day, I'm not sure it's the best use for so many feats either-- admittedly you can bump it with items and Words of Creation, but still...  You also don't qualify for Sublime Chord as far as I can tell-- assuming you're putting your human paragon bumps into bard casting you still only have 2nd level spells and you need 3rd. Ultimately, I think you just tried to cram too many things into the character.  If you want to be a spellcasting/melee bard, then focus on that-- drop the warlock, binder, and maybe human paragon.  Try to keep your base attack bonus and caster level higher and supplement from there with feats.  Something simple like Bard 8/Marshal 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Sublime Chord 2/Eldritch Knight 8 could work for instance.  Or you could swap some Abjurant Champion or a more skill based prestige class like Unseen Seer into the mix instead.
#5 ObsidianConspiracy Aug 08, 2010 11:12:19	Heh. As a combat bard I highly agree with Balthanon's idea... however instead of Elritch knight why not use Knight Phantom, as it's better?  Also whic books have song of heart and snowflake wardance? They sound interesting.  Of course... another viable idea is to use some levels of wizard, and go in to UA prestige bard... better spellcasting, allows you to gain spells like Body of War and Tensers transformation for combat
#6 Balthanon Aug 08, 2010 12:45:31	Knight Phantom is definitely an option as well, though the bonus feat that Eldritch Knight provides can be useful as well.  If Abjurant Champion were a touch longer, that would be ideal (and can still be useful.) If Dragon is available, another nice option could be Bard 8/Marshal 1/Battle Dancer 1/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5-- the 3 capstone levels would need to be another prestige class, preferably with full spellcasting and at least 3/4ths base attack bonus. Snowflake Wardance I believe is in Frostburn and Song of the Heart is the Eberron Campaign Setting.  It basically gives a +1 to the inspire courage.
#7 ObsidianConspiracy Aug 08, 2010 13:29:50	It's true the bonus feat is much nicer. But havin your own phantom steed, knight phantom saves a little on gishing spells, IMO.   Thanks... i found Snowflake Wardance. Nice synergy there
#8 mervin_magnus Aug 10, 2010 10:13:47	Fochlucan Lyrist gives the BAB of eldritch knight (though one level for the feat is nice) and double the casting words of creation can certainly pump up your bard music (I usually make this feat a priority for almost any bard build) as I write this, warchanter comes into my mind for the melle bardliness
#9 Balthanon Aug 10, 2010 11:48:23	Fochlucan Lyrist is a very nice class, but it takes a dedicated build to get into it due to the diverse requirements.  Doing it without crippling your spellcasting can be tough. For a noncaster, I do like warchanter though-- particularly in a leadership based build.  That last ability is quite powerful when you have a handful of peons to throw around the battlefield.  (Or even better, a spellcaster who cast sticks to stones and create a bunch of mini-wights to deliver negative levels.)
#10 Duttile Aug 12, 2010 5:58:10	You can also enter the Swiftblade PrC, but that one requires some dedication.