we have some restrictions due to the setting of the campaign.
Limited magic. No magic items for puchase or PCs with dedicated spellcasting classes (Sor. Wiz. etc.) and very very few artifacts/magic items as loot.
limited equiptment. anything not semi-common in 1070s England costs twice as much if its available at all. one of the other players got a repeating crossbow but it cost him like 600 gp.
limited funds. starting with 1/2 standard money for a character of our level.
low level. i dont have a specific level to start at but probably not higher than 8 nor lower than 3. most likely 5 or so.
I wanted to play a rogue swordsman that used a rapier (actually a elven thinblade but we're just calling it a rapier thinblade due to the lack of elves in England)and a dagger that is really skillful with the sword and can fient and disarm and flank and stuff like that. I was thinking about multiclassing in one of the Tome of Battle classes.
I'm sorry if I cant provide the right kind of information. I havent been playing long.
I wanted to play a rogue swordsman that used a rapier (actually a elven thinblade but we're just calling it a rapier thinblade due to the lack of elves in England)and a dagger that is really skillful with the sword and can fient and disarm and flank and stuff like that. I was thinking about multiclassing in one of the Tome of Battle classes.
I'm sorry if I cant provide the right kind of information. I havent been playing long.
Urg. You're playing a fantasy role-playing game, and not allowed to use the fantasy part of it.
Why not go Rogue/Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior) and use the Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel)? And, um... just use a rapier. It's in the PHB.
I just started in a mostly rogue-type campaign that is taking place in 1070 england just after the Normans invaded.
we have some restrictions due to the setting of the campaign.
Limited magic. No magic items for puchase or PCs with dedicated spellcasting classes (Sor. Wiz. etc.) and very very few artifacts/magic items as loot.
limited equiptment. anything not semi-common in 1070s England costs twice as much if its available at all. one of the other players got a repeating crossbow but it cost him like 600 gp.
limited funds. starting with 1/2 standard money for a character of our level.
low level. i dont have a specific level to start at but probably not higher than 8 nor lower than 3. most likely 5 or so.
You really, really, really want to read this before designing your character for this game. And make sure your DM reads it too.
D&D is NOT a good game for simulating history unless you do a lot of limits - and while "no magic" is a pretty obvious one, "obscenely low level" is equally important, if not moreso.
I wanted to play a rogue swordsman that used a rapier (actually a elven thinblade but we're just calling it a rapier thinblade due to the lack of elves in England)and a dagger that is really skillful with the sword and can fient and disarm and flank and stuff like that. I was thinking about multiclassing in one of the Tome of Battle classes.
I'm sorry if I cant provide the right kind of information. I havent been playing long.
Normally I'd say mix Rogue with Warblade and consider Invisible Blade (arguably the only way to make feinting useful, although errata kind of nerfed it; if you can play with description, though, maneuvers like Sapphire Nightmare Blade are basically feints anyway). This may not be ideal for you though, since the Tome of Battle was designed for flashier, heroic-fantasy martial arts - although it works just peachy for actual British Isles folklore (seriously, have you read the Ulster Cycle?) with a bit of description, most DMs who favor gritty games will ban it outright. (A friend of mine once suggested lampshading this practice by making up elaborate martial-arts names for every possible level of Power Attack and calling their names dramatically in a badly over-pronounced Japanese accent, while leaving the Tome maneuvers completely un-described.)
Still, you'll need to be a bit more specific than that - rogues and warblades play totally differently and it's kind of hard to fuse them together. If you favor the swordplay aspect, consider going Swashbuckler for 3 levels (or four, if this article tickles your fancy; in the long run this may actually work out better due to the way ToB multiclassing works) and then switch to gaining Warblade levels; the two classes actually work rather well together if done this way, and although the term "swashbuckler" is a bit futurist for the Normans, an unarmored skilled swordsman is still a decent fit. If you favor the skill-using aspect of the rogue, there's plenty of combat-rogue PrCs out there to aim for, and the rogue is plenty potent on its own while you get there (as long as you don't expect miracles from him in terms of combat potential in a straight-up fight). In fact, oddly enough, one of those "combat rogue" tricks is to use Daring Outlaw (a feat in Complete Adventurer) to advance Sneak Attack with Swashbuckler levels. Normally, swashbuckler isn't a good class, but any class with full base attack and full sneak attack (which is what Daring Outlaw basically does) is one you have to take seriously. I'd leave this as a fallback plan if the DM banhammers the Tome of Battle, since while it's still effective, warblade is far more dynamic and fun at the game table.
As for the thinblade, I'd concur: Go with the rapier. The thinblade is exotic, so it costs you a feat; that feat gives you a 1d8 base damage weapon that you can use Power Attack with (since it isn't light, and unlike the rapier it lacks the "can't Power Attack" clause). However, 1d8 is just +1 damage over the rapier's 1d6, and you aren't going to be using Power Attack since your damage will come from some combination of maneuvers, Sneak Attack, and Insightful Strike, all of which require accuracy more than brute force. It thus costs you a feat for +1 damage, which is worse than Weapon Specialization. Stick with the rapier.
for a 5th level character how does this sound
rogue 1 (for skills and to get sneak attack)
swashbuckler 3 (for the nice perks and more sneak attack with daring outlaw feat)
and warblade 1 (for 1st & 2nd level stances and maneuvers)
levels after that would be rogue(because swashbuckler doesnt get anything at 4th but at lesat rogue gets evasion and it brings my SA up to 3d6) then warblade for a while with maybe a touch of sword sage to get shadow hand discipline stances(island of blades or assassin's stance)
again, im sorry if what im saying is unbelievably idiotic, ive only played an artificer and a wizard(for like 3 encounters) nothing even remotely melee-y
I talked to my DM and hes thinking about not setting it in 1070 England and so allowing magic and other such stuff.
for a 5th level character how does this sound
rogue 1 (for skills and to get sneak attack)
swashbuckler 3 (for the nice perks and more sneak attack with daring outlaw feat)
and warblade 1 (for 1st & 2nd level stances and maneuvers)
levels after that would be rogue(because swashbuckler doesnt get anything at 4th but at lesat rogue gets evasion and it brings my SA up to 3d6) then warblade for a while with maybe a touch of sword sage to get shadow hand discipline stances(island of blades or assassin's stance)
again, im sorry if what im saying is unbelievably idiotic, ive only played an artificer and a wizard(for like 3 encounters) nothing even remotely melee-y
It's not idiotic at all - just a couple of common mistakes (i.e. Daring Outlaw requires Sneak Attack +2d6, so you need Rogue 3). And honestly, melee is far, far simpler than either the wizard or the artificer (widely held to be the most complicated classes to play, bar none), particularly if you don't use Power Attack - sneak attackers largely reduce to a game of placement.
One piece of advice, though: There's more to a class than stuff in the "Special" column. Sneak attack needs to hit often and hit accurately - base attack bonus matters a lot for this. Thus, more Swashbuckler with Daring Outlaw is actually better than more Rogue if you're interested in combat. Similarly, Evasion is nice, but it depends largely on your Reflex save, which is going to be respectable but isn't going to be stellar. (Warblade levels actually help a lot here - both Warblade and Swashbuckler reward high Intelligence, and warblade also grants the amazing Diamond Mind counters.)
The other piece of advice is that Sneak Attackers rely on a lot of attacks to get the damage values up there. This is usually done with Two-Weapon Fighting, which relies on full attacks; these don't combine well with warblade strikes and tend to really limit your mobility. Thus, I might actually suggest the Swashbuckler/Warblade approach or the pure Warblade approach over the Rogue-related ones - Swash 4 / Warblade 1 gives you Insightful Strike, Seduction (see the article I linked), and 2nd level warblade maneuvers (which will probably include the very swashbucklerous Wall of Blades), while Warblade 5 gets you full initiator level and enough maneuvers to build your own style. If you do consider the swordsage dip (which I'm not sure would be wise given flavor concerns, but it isn't a bad choice mechanically), time it to coincide with a feat, such as at level 6; this way you can pick up Shadow Blade. (This gives you the ability to focus entirely on Dexterity if you prefer the idea of a graceful rather than a strong fighter.) The same trick can be used with the swashbuckler/warblade approach, which gives you Dexterity AND Intelligence to damage in exchange for fewer maneuvers known.