Help with Cleric

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

malforge

Jul 01, 2010 1:50:11
Hi there, I need help optimizing a cleric. The idea would be a creepy fellow who uses blood magic, divination spells, and know it all. I'de like to be the wise guy not losing offensive capabilities. I'll post what I have until now. Btw max lvl 10 and 2 flaws, feel free to correct, suggest, post links from other topics that could prove useful.

Domains: Knowledge (cloystered bonus), Planning, Oracle, Travel (divine oracle bonus)

Cloystered Cleric 5 / Divine Oracle 3 / Blood Magus 2 (Variant Cleric)

Feats
Flaw 1: Extra Turning
Flaw 2: Divine Metamagic
Human: SF Knowledge Religion
Feat 1: Toughtness
Feat 3: Great Fortitude
Feat 6: Maximize Spell
Feat 9: ?????????????

Now the plan was using the last domain to get enervation spell and use with maximize to debuff since enering the classes is feat expensive (skill focus, toughtness, great fortitude) I wanted to play with spell without saving throws, maximized could be even more fun. The idea was getting skill focus to enter on lvl 11 contemplative and grab some domain with offensive arsenal to play along with divine metamagic. Any ideas, critics, improvements are welcome

NOTE: pls post some stat build and flaws you would use since I'm kind of n00b I'de like to learn about optimizing like a powergammer ^^
#2

spiral_rider_h

Jul 01, 2010 8:10:04

First thing that needs addressed is that you have the metamagic feat you plan to Divine Metamagic before you take the feat. Not too big a deal, but it does require stuff to be moved around.

For flaws, Murky-Eyed and Vulnerable are good choices for casters, since a lot of spells aren't subject to miss chance and you can buff your AC back up.

Also, see if your DM will allow you to take Improved Toughness over Toughness. It's effectively the same thing (but better) and I have seen house-ruled to be okay often.

So, based on what you used, I'd go as such.

F1 (Murky-Eyed) - Maximize Spell
F2 (Vulnerable) - Extra Turning
Human - Improved Toughness (if allowed)
1st - Divine Metamagic (Maximize Spell)
3rd - Skill Focus (Knowledge - Religion)
6th - Great Fortitude

What you want to do, however, is drastically different than how clerics with Divine Metamagic are typically played; Divine Metamagic is typically teamed with Persistent Spell and spells like Divine Power, Righteous Might, or Holy Star (see this build: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...)

I've never thoroughly reviewed the cleric spell list to see how effective a blaster could be myself, so hopefully somebody better versed will help you there. I know they get some stuff (searing light, flamestrike, firestorm, among others), but they do get a ton of buff spells. If you wanted to try that, you could do something like this, scrapping blood priest (aka your blood magus adaptation):

F1 (Murky-Eyed) - Extend Spell
F2 (Vulnerable) - Persistent Spell
Human - Extra Turning
1st - Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
3rd - Skill Focus (Knowledge - Religion)
6th - Extra Turning

Just a couple ideas for you to think about.

#3

ah_andras

Jul 01, 2010 8:49:36


Now the plan was using the last domain to get enervation spell and use with maximize to debuff since enering the classes is feat expensive (skill focus, toughtness, great fortitude) I wanted to play with spell without saving throws, maximized could be even more fun. The idea was getting skill focus to enter on lvl 11 contemplative and grab some domain with offensive arsenal to play along with divine metamagic. Any ideas, critics, improvements are welcome

NOTE: pls post some stat build and flaws you would use since I'm kind of n00b I'de like to learn about optimizing like a powergammer ^^



Split Ray is better then Maximize Spell for Enervation. You average more, and it's 1 level modifier lower then Maximize.
#4

malforge

Jul 01, 2010 14:31:10
Thx both for the ideas

spiral rider: I got planning domain so no need to get extended spell feat, I was going to get persistent but divine power is 1 hour/level so I think no need of persist that, in case there is another spell worth making persistent please tell me so I can take a look. I could not understand the blood priest part, if it is a class please quote the source so I can check it since I'm n00b ^^

Andras: Nice idea but I'm terrified of using rays against high dex classes like rogues and such, if you have an idea for making the ranged touch attack with good bab let me know, maybe buffs like divine power should  help but I don't know if it will cover the great ac of a rogue since I got no much experience.
#5

phaedrusxy

Jul 01, 2010 15:37:12
Divine Power is 1 round per level. So it is a prime target for Persist.
#6

spiral_rider_h

Jul 01, 2010 15:45:25
Thx both for the ideas

spiral rider: I got planning domain so no need to get extended spell feat, I was going to get persistent but divine power is 1 hour/level so I think no need of persist that, in case there is another spell worth making persistent please tell me so I can take a look. I could not understand the blood priest part, if it is a class please quote the source so I can check it since I'm n00b ^^



You adapted Blood Magus for divine casting, so I nicknamed it "Blood Priest" is all.

Righteous Might, Holy Star, Magic Vestment, the list of spells that would be great to Persist goes on and on.

I forgot the Planning domain gives you Extend Spell. So you could do this, and get the Blood Magus adaptation back:

F1 (Murky-Eyed) - Extra Turning
F2 (Vulnerable) - Persistent Spell
Human - Improved Toughness (or Toughness if you can't replace)
1st - Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
3rd - Skill Focus (Knowledge - Religion)
6th - Great Fortitude

Still not sure on a ninth level feat. Improved Initiative is always a good backup.
#7

ah_andras

Jul 01, 2010 16:19:15
Thx both for the ideas
...
Andras: Nice idea but I'm terrified of using rays against high dex classes like rogues and such, if you have an idea for making the ranged touch attack with good bab let me know, maybe buffs like divine power should  help but I don't know if it will cover the great ac of a rogue since I got no much experience.



Leave the Dex based opponents to the meat shield/fighter/barbarian. Nail wizards first, followed by opposing tanks. If your wizard is any good, by then he'll have Ray of Enfeebled or Blinded them (Color Spray/Glitter Dust). 

Also invest in Zen Archery (Wis mod to ranged atks, vice Dex). My DM let me use a variant based on Int for my Wizard. Hitting wasn't a problem even with my lowly Wizard BAB. And Split Ray is still 2 chances to hit instead of one.



 
#8

lormador

Jul 03, 2010 9:06:58
This brings up an alternative to DMM: Persistent that I've been playing with. Of course, Persistent is more powerful.

Split Ray has a lot going for it. The problem is there just aren't that many good rays for clerics. One can take a domain to get Enervation, and there's a domain that gives Ray of Enfeeblement, I think.

There are two good ways to get good rays on the list, however. The first is the Reach Spell feat- it converts a spell to a ray effect. The second is the Divine Magician class feature from Complete Mage. It's a pretty easy way to get spells like Ray of Enfeeblement/Exhaustion, Enervation, etc. on the list. Plus you can go all out and get some funky spells like Night's Caress to Reach+Split, but that's kind of overkill. Slay Living, at the same level, does more or less the same thing.

There are several advantages to DMM: Reach+Split.

First, DMs who balk at DMM:Persist are more willing to accept this maneuver.

Second, you're not Dispel Magic bait, and AMFs don't eat the entire build.

Third, by not eating up all your turn attempts at the beginning of the day, you've got them on tap should you run into an encounter that really calls for Turn Undead- against a swarm of low HD incorporeals, for example.

Fourth, you can get a really savage attack going with, for example, a Reach + Split Plane Shift. That's a non-Mind-affecting Will save that will easily take down an ooze, construct, vermin, or plant, not to mention ruin a few days for melee characters.

Fifth, it's easier on the turn attempts than Persistent Spell. 2 turn attempts is not a lot to double up an Enervation or Exhaustion ray.

Sixth, you've got the option of playing a non-Cloistered Cleric and having a 3/4 BA to help with the ray attacks.

And finally, Reach+Split can double the amount of healing you can drop at once, if perchance an in-combat heal becomes necessary. Though this is rarely the correct move- a Split Heal is kind of like a miniature Mass Heal, except you can do it at 11th level.