Help with Epic char - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with Epic char

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
drakir_nosslin
Mar 24, 2008 4:02:48 Hi!

I'm about to build my first epic character for a campaign on these boards.
Here's the creation rules, though they might be changed over time...

Character Creation (As you can see very loose):
Setting: Can be from anywhere.
Total Levels: 25-XP Half way between level 25 and 26 to be used for Crafting and LA buy off.
Race: Any
Classes: Any
Feats: Any
Abilities: 40 point buy
HP: Max First Two Levels then Average Afterwards
Starting Gold: 2,100,000 gp
Magic Item Compendium and Weapons of Legacy are available to purchase from.
-----------

Right now I'm thinking of a ToB-build using Shadow Hand and Iaijutsu Master for flatfooted attacks, combined with high level TC maneuvers for increased dmg. Thoughts?

So does anyone have any ideas?
#2
drakir_nosslin
Mar 25, 2008 5:02:05 No one?
I'm a little bit dissapointed in the CO-boards.

On the other hand, I've decided to drop the Shade-template and go with the Dark instead, gained trough a collar of umbral metamorphosis.
#3
aftercrescent
Mar 25, 2008 5:08:15 Hey drakir, I had already commented on the actual posting, so I forgot to post here too :P

My first thought when I hear twf is to dip barbarian 1 and exchange fast movement for pounce via Complete Champion ACF.

From what I understand, factotum(dungeonscape) makes a great skill monkey and all around useful character, so maybe you want to look up one of those builds? Another thought would be to take a look at the dervish prestige class in complete warrior.

Also, from my understanding of bloodlines, which is far from perfect, it's really more beneficial for a ToB or Binder type class. Generic skill monkeys don't gain as much from bloodline shenanigans...

Anyways, hope that helps. If you get inspired for something, throw up a build. When you give the CO boards a build you are more likely to get a response. People are wary of making builds on the drop of a hat. If you give them something, they're more likely to be constructive.
#4
drakir_nosslin
Mar 25, 2008 5:40:41 Hi, and thanks for the tips!

I'm already thinking of some kind of TOB-based character, and since we have a lot of feats (flaws are also ok...) I'm thinking someting like
Swordsage 6
"That Ninja type PRC from TOB" 10
MoN 5
Bloodline 3
LA+1 buyoff from template.
I have no idea what IL I would have, or if it's a good build, probably more fighter than skillmonkey, but since I use bloodlines I thought that I would go with TOB-classes all the way, since they gain the most of it.
Hopefully I'll have a better build up soon, right now I'm at work, and my TOB-fu is low.
#5
operation_shoestring
Mar 25, 2008 5:51:50 I second factotum. Forget about TWF though, it's not the best way.. go MArtial adept or casting instead.

1. Human Factotum8/Warblade1/Iaijustu Master5/Bloodstorm Blade4/Crusader2/Iaijutsu mater+5 (and continue Iaijustu master)

Make sure to take the Abler Learner feat at level 1, and grab Aura of Perfect Order with crusader so you can take 11 on everything. Take a few Fonts of Inspiriation. Then go and Iaijustu the heck out of everything with Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Use the extra standard action from Factotum 8's ability to recover Sapph N blade every turn and do it again if you feel particularly mean.

CHA>INT>CON>DEX/STR, dump WIS.

2. Human Factotum1/Conjuerer5/Unseen Seer9/Divine Oracle4/Cbnjurer+1/Unseen Seer+X

Able learner at first again, and grab Abrupt Jaunt and Spontaneous Divination. Make sure to get Hunter's Eye and Divine Insight/Guindance of the Avatar with advanced learning.

INT>CON>DEX Dump STR and WIS.
#6
aftercrescent
Mar 25, 2008 5:56:01 Just be careful of the 10th level ability of Shadow Sun Ninja, it's an almost guaranteed way to get your PC turned into an NPC if you bestow too many negative levels.

Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your IL will be (6 Swordsage +1.5 bloodline +10 SSN +1.5 BL +5 MoN +1.5 BL)= 25.5

Also, given the XP for the campaign, you can pay off the LA and still be 25th level.

Id say go swordsage 5 and toss on two more levels of a prestige class, or possibly even take a level of binder. If you can bind naberius, he will heal the con damage from SSN quickly, assuming of course you don't take enough to auto-die.
#7
drakir_nosslin
Mar 25, 2008 7:24:27 Ah, I see, I'll check out Factoum and the other classes when I get back home, expect more questions to come.
Also, thanks for all help, really appriceate it!
#8
eepop
Mar 25, 2008 9:57:19 My first inkling would be to try something abusing both Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher.

I'm AFB, but assuming you can get the prereqs from 3 levels of each:

Rogue 3/Ranger 3/Pounce-Barbarian 1/Scout 18

Its not an absolute skill monkey but it can find/deal with traps and survival should be good. If nothing else, they all get good skill points, so you could:

Factotum 1/ Rogue 3/Ranger 3/Pounce-barbarian 1/Scout 17
With Able Learner at first level.
#9
drakir_nosslin
Mar 31, 2008 7:41:31 The skillmonkey is no more. The build will focus on ToB-stuff (since I don't like casters that much)
Right now I have a ready build that looks like this: Ss 5, Mnk 1, SSN 10, IM 1, MoN 5, Bloodline 3. It doesn't really pack the punch I need, so I'll drop the bloodline (on the recommendation from my friends here on the boards) and go with something like this: Swordsage 4, Mnk 1, Shadow Sun Ninja 10, Iaijutsu Master 2, Master of Nine 5, Crusader 1, Warblade 2.
My scores at lvl 25 will be something like:
STR 24
DEX 34
CON 24
INT 32
WIS 34
CHA 26

So, what can be done with it? He'll have a pretty high AC, but his BAB is low, saves will be replaced by DM counters.
I've been trying to do a spring attack build, with gloom razor, but with 25 lvls I should be able to do more stuff...
#10
aftercrescent
Mar 31, 2008 7:52:13 skillful weapon helps with the bab issue, right?

do you have entire spring attack tree from phb 2 already?
#11
drakir_nosslin
Mar 31, 2008 8:05:07 If I have done my math right, and I move the monk to a level where I get epic bab, I should end up with 18-19 BAB, which is the same as a skillful weapon gives, so instead of wasting a +2 enchantment on that I'll use it on Martial Discipline Weapons, I think...

As for the spring attack issue, no I haven't, didn't know they where there... Well, I'll post my feat list, tell me what I have to get rid of, to get those instead...
Able Learner - DMBonus
Improved Unarmed Strike - Monk Bonus
Martial Study - Flaw
Dodge - Flaw
Blooded - Human Bonus
Improved Initiative - Lvl 1
Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Lvl 3
Adaptive Style - Lvl 5
Quick Draw - Lvl 7
Deflect Arrows - Lvl 9
Combat Reflexes - Lvl 11
Gloom Razon - Lvl 13
Blind-Fight - Lvl 15
Mobility - Lvl 17
Spring Attack - Lvl 19
Exceptional Deflection (EPIC) - Lvl 21
Infinite Deflection (EPIC) - Lvl 23
Reflect Arrows (EPIC) - Lvl 25

Right now, I'm basically immune to ranged attacks, but those feats and the prereqs for MoN and IM eats up the slots quite quick... I might take another flaw or two, though...
#12
ieniemienie
Mar 31, 2008 11:47:34 you can only take 2 flaws, and only at lvl 1... but if your DM's ok with it, take as many as you can get!
#13
grognard_thac0
Mar 31, 2008 11:58:49
you can only take 2 flaws, and only at lvl 1... but if your DM's ok with it, take as many as you can get!

yo homie,

i know it be not a real big deal, but dis post i be quotin' was number 14,000 on the nose in dis forum. go have yo self a beer homie and know at least one poster on dis forum be givin you a pat on yo back.

peace out
#14
aftercrescent
Mar 31, 2008 12:19:31 draknir, is quick draw a prereq? If not, drop it and get a crystal of return from MIC that does the same thing.
#15
phoenix00
Mar 31, 2008 12:36:39 Are you sure you don't want any spellcaster?

Ur Priest+
Tome of Battle+
Ruby Knight Vindicator (using an adaption of Ur Priest or RKV to allow the worship part)+
Bloodlines+
Epic

is made of win.
#16
ander_spectacular
Mar 31, 2008 12:50:11 SSN sucks and is not worth 10 levels. I can't see any of their abilities being that useful. Also, what weapon is your exotic weapon and what does martial study grant you? Both of those feats could probably be better spent.
-AS-
#17
drakir_nosslin
Mar 31, 2008 13:57:58
draknir, is quick draw a prereq? If not, drop it and get a crystal of return from MIC that does the same thing.

Yep, the IM teachers demand that I know how to draw my weapon really quick before they teach me anythin :P

Are you sure you don't want any spellcaster?

Ur Priest+
Tome of Battle+
Ruby Knight Vindicator (using an adaption of Ur Priest or RKV to allow the worship part)+
Bloodlines+
Epic

is made of win.

Yes on that one too, we already have a bunch of casters, and personally I find it much more fun to acually hit people :D

SSN sucks and is not worth 10 levels. I can't see any of their abilities being that useful. Also, what weapon is your exotic weapon and what does martial study grant you? Both of those feats could probably be better spent.
-AS-

Ok, if SSN sucks, what should I use instead? The capstone is quite good... Also it raises my IL with 10 levels on all base TOB classes, which grants me 5 Lvl 9 maneuvers at lvl 25
Exotic WP is for Katana (Bastardsword), it's a prereq for IM.
Martial Study is needed to refresh maneuvers, since both MoN and SSN uses the Swordsage recovery system.
#18
aftercrescent
Mar 31, 2008 14:39:50 SSN is fine if you can find a way to take care of tha con damage :P
#19
archerpwr
Mar 31, 2008 14:43:07 IMO, the best way to get greater flurry:
Monk 2/ Warmind 5(XPH)/Shou Disciple 5 (UE), Monastic Training (ECS), Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona). Sweeping strike is also really nice.

Edit: refined idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 drakir_nosslin Mar 24, 2008 4:02:48	Hi! I'm about to build my first epic character for a campaign on these boards. Here's the creation rules, though they might be changed over time... Character Creation (As you can see very loose): Setting: Can be from anywhere. Total Levels: 25-XP Half way between level 25 and 26 to be used for Crafting and LA buy off. Race: Any Classes: Any Feats: Any Abilities: 40 point buy HP: Max First Two Levels then Average Afterwards Starting Gold: 2,100,000 gp Magic Item Compendium and Weapons of Legacy are available to purchase from. ----------- Right now I'm thinking of a ToB-build using Shadow Hand and Iaijutsu Master for flatfooted attacks, combined with high level TC maneuvers for increased dmg. Thoughts? So does anyone have any ideas?
#2 drakir_nosslin Mar 25, 2008 5:02:05	No one? I'm a little bit dissapointed in the CO-boards. On the other hand, I've decided to drop the Shade-template and go with the Dark instead, gained trough a collar of umbral metamorphosis.
#3 aftercrescent Mar 25, 2008 5:08:15	Hey drakir, I had already commented on the actual posting, so I forgot to post here too :P My first thought when I hear twf is to dip barbarian 1 and exchange fast movement for pounce via Complete Champion ACF. From what I understand, factotum(dungeonscape) makes a great skill monkey and all around useful character, so maybe you want to look up one of those builds? Another thought would be to take a look at the dervish prestige class in complete warrior. Also, from my understanding of bloodlines, which is far from perfect, it's really more beneficial for a ToB or Binder type class. Generic skill monkeys don't gain as much from bloodline shenanigans... Anyways, hope that helps. If you get inspired for something, throw up a build. When you give the CO boards a build you are more likely to get a response. People are wary of making builds on the drop of a hat. If you give them something, they're more likely to be constructive.
#4 drakir_nosslin Mar 25, 2008 5:40:41	Hi, and thanks for the tips! I'm already thinking of some kind of TOB-based character, and since we have a lot of feats (flaws are also ok...) I'm thinking someting like Swordsage 6 "That Ninja type PRC from TOB" 10 MoN 5 Bloodline 3 LA+1 buyoff from template. I have no idea what IL I would have, or if it's a good build, probably more fighter than skillmonkey, but since I use bloodlines I thought that I would go with TOB-classes all the way, since they gain the most of it. Hopefully I'll have a better build up soon, right now I'm at work, and my TOB-fu is low.
#5 operation_shoestring Mar 25, 2008 5:51:50	I second factotum. Forget about TWF though, it's not the best way.. go MArtial adept or casting instead. 1. Human Factotum8/Warblade1/Iaijustu Master5/Bloodstorm Blade4/Crusader2/Iaijutsu mater+5 (and continue Iaijustu master) Make sure to take the Abler Learner feat at level 1, and grab Aura of Perfect Order with crusader so you can take 11 on everything. Take a few Fonts of Inspiriation. Then go and Iaijustu the heck out of everything with Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Use the extra standard action from Factotum 8's ability to recover Sapph N blade every turn and do it again if you feel particularly mean. CHA>INT>CON>DEX/STR, dump WIS. 2. Human Factotum1/Conjuerer5/Unseen Seer9/Divine Oracle4/Cbnjurer+1/Unseen Seer+X Able learner at first again, and grab Abrupt Jaunt and Spontaneous Divination. Make sure to get Hunter's Eye and Divine Insight/Guindance of the Avatar with advanced learning. INT>CON>DEX Dump STR and WIS.
#6 aftercrescent Mar 25, 2008 5:56:01	Just be careful of the 10th level ability of Shadow Sun Ninja, it's an almost guaranteed way to get your PC turned into an NPC if you bestow too many negative levels. Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your IL will be (6 Swordsage +1.5 bloodline +10 SSN +1.5 BL +5 MoN +1.5 BL)= 25.5 Also, given the XP for the campaign, you can pay off the LA and still be 25th level. Id say go swordsage 5 and toss on two more levels of a prestige class, or possibly even take a level of binder. If you can bind naberius, he will heal the con damage from SSN quickly, assuming of course you don't take enough to auto-die.
#7 drakir_nosslin Mar 25, 2008 7:24:27	Ah, I see, I'll check out Factoum and the other classes when I get back home, expect more questions to come. Also, thanks for all help, really appriceate it!
#8 eepop Mar 25, 2008 9:57:19	My first inkling would be to try something abusing both Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher. I'm AFB, but assuming you can get the prereqs from 3 levels of each: Rogue 3/Ranger 3/Pounce-Barbarian 1/Scout 18 Its not an absolute skill monkey but it can find/deal with traps and survival should be good. If nothing else, they all get good skill points, so you could: Factotum 1/ Rogue 3/Ranger 3/Pounce-barbarian 1/Scout 17 With Able Learner at first level.
#9 drakir_nosslin Mar 31, 2008 7:41:31	The skillmonkey is no more. The build will focus on ToB-stuff (since I don't like casters that much) Right now I have a ready build that looks like this: Ss 5, Mnk 1, SSN 10, IM 1, MoN 5, Bloodline 3. It doesn't really pack the punch I need, so I'll drop the bloodline (on the recommendation from my friends here on the boards) and go with something like this: Swordsage 4, Mnk 1, Shadow Sun Ninja 10, Iaijutsu Master 2, Master of Nine 5, Crusader 1, Warblade 2. My scores at lvl 25 will be something like: STR 24 DEX 34 CON 24 INT 32 WIS 34 CHA 26 So, what can be done with it? He'll have a pretty high AC, but his BAB is low, saves will be replaced by DM counters. I've been trying to do a spring attack build, with gloom razor, but with 25 lvls I should be able to do more stuff...
#10 aftercrescent Mar 31, 2008 7:52:13	skillful weapon helps with the bab issue, right? do you have entire spring attack tree from phb 2 already?
#11 drakir_nosslin Mar 31, 2008 8:05:07	If I have done my math right, and I move the monk to a level where I get epic bab, I should end up with 18-19 BAB, which is the same as a skillful weapon gives, so instead of wasting a +2 enchantment on that I'll use it on Martial Discipline Weapons, I think... As for the spring attack issue, no I haven't, didn't know they where there... Well, I'll post my feat list, tell me what I have to get rid of, to get those instead... Able Learner - DMBonus Improved Unarmed Strike - Monk Bonus Martial Study - Flaw Dodge - Flaw Blooded - Human Bonus Improved Initiative - Lvl 1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Lvl 3 Adaptive Style - Lvl 5 Quick Draw - Lvl 7 Deflect Arrows - Lvl 9 Combat Reflexes - Lvl 11 Gloom Razon - Lvl 13 Blind-Fight - Lvl 15 Mobility - Lvl 17 Spring Attack - Lvl 19 Exceptional Deflection (EPIC) - Lvl 21 Infinite Deflection (EPIC) - Lvl 23 Reflect Arrows (EPIC) - Lvl 25 Right now, I'm basically immune to ranged attacks, but those feats and the prereqs for MoN and IM eats up the slots quite quick... I might take another flaw or two, though...
#12 ieniemienie Mar 31, 2008 11:47:34	you can only take 2 flaws, and only at lvl 1... but if your DM's ok with it, take as many as you can get!
#13 grognard_thac0 Mar 31, 2008 11:58:49	you can only take 2 flaws, and only at lvl 1... but if your DM's ok with it, take as many as you can get! yo homie, i know it be not a real big deal, but dis post i be quotin' was number 14,000 on the nose in dis forum. go have yo self a beer homie and know at least one poster on dis forum be givin you a pat on yo back. peace out
#14 aftercrescent Mar 31, 2008 12:19:31	draknir, is quick draw a prereq? If not, drop it and get a crystal of return from MIC that does the same thing.
#15 phoenix00 Mar 31, 2008 12:36:39	Are you sure you don't want any spellcaster? Ur Priest+ Tome of Battle+ Ruby Knight Vindicator (using an adaption of Ur Priest or RKV to allow the worship part)+ Bloodlines+ Epic is made of win.
#16 ander_spectacular Mar 31, 2008 12:50:11	SSN sucks and is not worth 10 levels. I can't see any of their abilities being that useful. Also, what weapon is your exotic weapon and what does martial study grant you? Both of those feats could probably be better spent. -AS-
#17 drakir_nosslin Mar 31, 2008 13:57:58	draknir, is quick draw a prereq? If not, drop it and get a crystal of return from MIC that does the same thing. Yep, the IM teachers demand that I know how to draw my weapon really quick before they teach me anythin :P Are you sure you don't want any spellcaster? Ur Priest+ Tome of Battle+ Ruby Knight Vindicator (using an adaption of Ur Priest or RKV to allow the worship part)+ Bloodlines+ Epic is made of win. Yes on that one too, we already have a bunch of casters, and personally I find it much more fun to acually hit people :D SSN sucks and is not worth 10 levels. I can't see any of their abilities being that useful. Also, what weapon is your exotic weapon and what does martial study grant you? Both of those feats could probably be better spent. -AS- Ok, if SSN sucks, what should I use instead? The capstone is quite good... Also it raises my IL with 10 levels on all base TOB classes, which grants me 5 Lvl 9 maneuvers at lvl 25 Exotic WP is for Katana (Bastardsword), it's a prereq for IM. Martial Study is needed to refresh maneuvers, since both MoN and SSN uses the Swordsage recovery system.
#18 aftercrescent Mar 31, 2008 14:39:50	SSN is fine if you can find a way to take care of tha con damage :P
#19 archerpwr Mar 31, 2008 14:43:07	IMO, the best way to get greater flurry: Monk 2/ Warmind 5(XPH)/Shou Disciple 5 (UE), Monastic Training (ECS), Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona). Sweeping strike is also really nice. Edit: refined idea.