Help with fighter type for super high powered campaign

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

kermorvan

Dec 06, 2010 12:04:46
Long time listener first time caller looking for some help in building a Fighter type for a very high powered campaign. Characters are building up to challenge the gods. Have to be fighter types. I am going for a god of blades and war.

Here is what I have so far....

Race Half-Minotaur/Half-Drow
Template: Half Celestial (May change to Half-Fiend)

Abilities:
STR:  26    +8    +4  = 38
DEX:  25    +2    +2  = 29
CON:  23    +2    +4  = 29
INT:  23    -2    +2  = 23
WIS:  20    +0    +4  = 24
CHA:  17    +0    +4  = 21

Here is the kicker, the DM will only allow a single multiclass.

Books we can use that I know of are Core and Tome of Battle

Tips on weapon, and classes would be greatly appreciated.

I was looking at Warblade or Fighter/Rogue or Fighter/Ranger type. Using Fullblade or some type of spear.

IMAGE(http://i54.tinypic.com/2wo9e0p.jpg)
#2

phaedrusxy

Dec 06, 2010 12:08:31
"Challenging the gods" with "fighter types" is just another way to write "commit suicide".
#3

Maat_Mons

Dec 06, 2010 14:01:30
Characters are building up to challenge the gods. … I am going for a god of blades and war.

Do you get any special powers to help with this? If you get to be a demigod at some point, having luck as one of the domains you offer is amazing. Demigods get all the spells from the domains they offer as spell-like abilities usable at-will. Miracle at-will adds a lot to a fighter-type.


I was looking at Warblade or Fighter/Rogue or Fighter/Ranger type.

I think warblade is the best of those options. Starting with two levels of some other class before taking warblade levels gets your stance progression on track. Fighter 2 / warblade x is good for the concept you're going for.


Using Fullblade or some type of spear.

Fullblade was never updated to 3.5. Since warblades can change the designated weapons for their feats, exotic weapon proficiency gives you the ability to use all exotic weapons.

#4

meyer_william4

Dec 06, 2010 14:22:23

What level are you wanting to be?
How long is this campaign going for?
(This makes it so that slow maturing builds have the pain levels already overcame)

What do you expect combat to be like?
(lots of mobs, one boss, high mobility, corridors, etc?

What are the other people in your group (classes / roles)?
Do they consider buffing you to be a good thing, or a waste of their resources?

#5

amalgamat

Dec 06, 2010 15:00:24
Warblade (or other core ftom Tome of Battle if suits you better)/Cleric
and as PrC: Ruby Knight Vindicator
should make solid power build

somthing like:

Cleric 5
Ruby Knight Vindicator 9
Warblade 5
The bloodclaw master 1

for example:
Str 24 (start 13, from lvls+5, item +6)
Dex 15
Con 20 (start 14, item +6)
Int 13
Wis 20 (start 14, item +6)
Cha 14 (start 10, item +4)

-------------
Martial study (devoted spirit, crusader's strike)
Martial stance (Martial spirit)
Martial study (Blistering Flourish)
Martial study (Flashing sun)
Two weapons fighting
Imp. two weapons fighting
Exotic weapon (kukri)
Greater two weapons fighting
Imp.Critical (kukri)
Snow Tiger Berserker

Flaw: Murky - eyed

Czary kapłana - 7 lvl
Maneuvers - 9 lvl

Maneuvers:
Known 14
Raging Moongose
Dancing Moongose
Time Stands Still
Flashing sun
Girallon windmill flesh rip
Defensive Rebuke
Blistering Flourish
Crusader's strike
Claw at the moon
Rabid wolf strike
Sapphire nightmare blade
Moment of perfect mind
Action before tought
Emerald razor

Ready 6
Raging Moongose
Dancing Moongose
Time Stands Still
Flashing sun
Girallon windmill flesh rip
Moment of pefect mind (zapchajdziura)

Stances: 5
Punishing stance
Blood in the water
Leading the Charge
Aura of Tryumph
Wolf Pack tactics


When You have on: shield of faith, divine favor, divine power, magic weapon greaterx2, Righteous might, Magic vestment, Rage

HP 240 (100 classes, 120 cons, 20 temporary)
KP: 10+13(mithril full plate +5)+2(natural armor)+2(dex)+5(shield of faith)-2(mostly in charge attack)=30KP
Str: 36 + 13
Dex: 15 + 2
Con: 22 + 6
Int: 13 + 1
Wis: 20 + 5
Cha: 14 + 2
Both weapon: Kukri +5 Keen and speed, dmg 1k6(+1 size Righteous might)+22+15, averge 40,5, krytyk 12/20x2.

Full attack: +34/34/34/34/29/29/24/24/19, 9 attacks :>
But:
Full attack with Raging Moongose, Dancing Moongose i Flashing Sun, z uwzględnioną szarżą (dwie swift actions osiągnięte dzięki RKV): +34/34/34/34/34/34/34/34/34/34/34/29/29/24/24/19, ---> 16 attacks
Doubled after "time stands still" maneuver: 32 attacks per round.

32 attacks * 40,5 dmg = 1296 dmg per round (without critical strikes which will be).
When you stand before many worse opponets-> try Wolf Pack Tactics instead

good enough?
(munchkin and broken things are in ToB as you see ;) )
#6

The_Crimson_Dawn

Dec 06, 2010 16:09:36
I just noticed something tie stands still will not double the number of attacks in your example.

Time stands still is a full-round action that lets you "use a full attack action two times in succession".  Notice not a full-round action but a full attack action they are not the same thing.

It is debateable about whether you can use flashing sun since while a full attack action is embedded into the maneuver the time stand still only gives you a full attack action-not a full round action.  By RAW you should not be able to and I think that may have been intended though I have no way of knowing that.  Further you have to use divine impetus and divine recovery to get it back (see below)

Further when you take your second full round attack from TSS you do not make the same attacks as the first time as they are completely seperate  sets of full attack actions.

The mongoose powers are sweet because they just give you a flat number of extra attacks-not bonus attacks from a full attack so you can use them with even standard action attacks and manuevers.  Due to the wording you get one set of extra attack from each mongoose maneuver once unless you are using divine recovery (which requires swift actions which requires divine impetus to get the swift actions).  In order to use both manuevers twice you would need 6 swift actions and thus 5 turning attempts to do this once a day (one swift actin is free, 1 divine impetus to use second mongoose maneuver, 2 divine recovery to get both boosts back, and 2 divine impetus to use the manuever a second time).  Increase this total by two if you want to use flashing sun twice (extra use of divine impetus to get a divine recovery assuming you let it work).  so now 7 turn attempts which I think is over the limit of what you built at this time. 

Considering all the effort and the amount of time in game to do this it would be better to make a super charger to get this much damage. 
#7

Maat_Mons

Dec 06, 2010 16:30:31
Cleric 5/Ruby Knight Vindicator 9/Warblade 5/Bloodclaw Master 1

Here is the kicker, the DM will only allow a single multiclass.

#8

The_Crimson_Dawn

Dec 06, 2010 18:38:40
Also to be clear while normally non-updated material from 3.0 is fine the fullblade is beset with very specific problems in the update to 3.5.  The big problem is that the original fullblade was suposed to be a bastard sword for large creatures essenitally.  In 3.0 this had to be done since weapons did not have weapon sizes.  In 3.5 weapon sizes were implemented thus negating the entire reason for fullblades to exist as there are now large sized bastard swords.  So while fulllblades are not updated in 3.5 so normally would be allowed since there are weapon sizing rules now it should not be used.
#9

kermorvan

Dec 06, 2010 19:06:32
Ok, no Fullblade. I'll just use a BastardSword with a large size.

Can't use the buld (Can only have one multiclass) but thanks for all the manuvers and such I can look those up and try and pick one I can still use.
#10

The_Crimson_Dawn

Dec 06, 2010 19:46:43
Do not worry about weapon die size too much as most of your damage will be from static mods, number of attacks, and bonus damage from maneuvers.  Unless you are large sized (or treated as large sized) monkey grip is probably not worth it.  2d8 vs 1d10 is a difference of 3.5 (9 vs 5.5).  For the same cost a two handed weapon could get +4 damage from power attack.

When you are a warblade one of your best assets is that you can move and make a meaningful attack.  Even a vanilla fighter will do nice damage if they can make full attacks but since they can not make full attacks all the time it limits fighters ability.  Warblades are awesome since they can be mobile and damaging.  Make sure you give yourself some nice strikes along with quality boosts.  A quality load out would be this for a warblade 20

Strikes:  Time stands still, strike of perfect clarity, mountain tombstone strike, feral death blow, warmasters charge, white raven hammer, adamantine hurricane, diamond nightmare blade, ancient hammer 

The rest should be filled with boosts, counters, and other maneuvers.

Remember when you set yourself up with our readied maneuvers you want to have a number of standard action attacks so you can keep your damage up on rounds when you have to move.  For instance time stands still, feral death blow, and warmasters charge are all powerful and awesome but they are full round actions so they can not be used if you are prevented from standing still on your turn.  Whate raven hammer is used to give you some control, tomstone gives you the ability to sap con, adamantine hurricane allows for an AOE double attack, nightmare can be very+ trike of perfect clarity are great when you just need damage, and ancient hammer is wonderful for high DR enemies.

Use boosts to upgrade your general abilities and remember as a warblade you just need a swift action and an attack (including full attacks if you can!) to get all your maneuvers back.

Edit: you could go bloodstorm blade 4/warblade 16.  This will add targeting versatility which will make it much easier to use your full attacks.  This means you will need less standard action maneuvers.  You will only be able to get 2 9th level manuevers (one by level one retrain and you could get a 3rd with a feat).  You will have one less known and readied maneuver.  Lastly you will not get double stances.  It is a nice combo but it has its tradeoffs.
#11

carnivore

Dec 07, 2010 5:46:55
a better approach might be:

Warblade/ Crusader combo ...... get lots of Manuvers and nice defense at same time

Warblade/ Eternal Blade is also nice

Warblade/ Warmind can be fun as well

what Level are you starting?

Laughing
#12

The_Crimson_Dawn

Dec 07, 2010 17:48:36
Eternal blade is nice since it allows you to pierce any DR and island in time gives you an actual extra full rounds worth of action every encounter.
#13

aelryinth

Dec 07, 2010 17:59:58
Warblade, use this trick.

Specialize in UA, Get Superior Unarmed Strike.

And use an Adaptive Heavy Large Greatsword with Strongarm Bracers.

Apply Superior Unarmed Strike, getting Superior Greatsword Strike.

A Heavy, Large Greatsword does 4-24 base dmg, and takes one exotic weapon feat.

SUS gives you three Size increases...a 4th if you have Personal Enlarge.

Follow the Math: 4-24 to 6-36 to 8-48 to 12-72 to 16-96.  If you can get to Huge, 24-144 dmg.

For the investment of 3 feats, and -2 to hit.  If you get Weapon Focus, spec, etc, apply to your UA skill.  If you lose your weapon, guess what?  At size H, you're still punchign for 4-24 + bonuses.

Have fun.  Get the Diamond Mind save feats, and never fail a save.  At high level you will probably want Master of Nine just so you ahve more manuvers to use (esp defensive ones), so consider it.

===Aelryinth
#14

Maat_Mons

Dec 07, 2010 19:28:44

In order to avoid another protracted debate, I'll refer the OP here. Reading from that point on should pretty much cover everything.

#15

lycanthrope0

Dec 07, 2010 21:48:52
Ok, no Fullblade. I'll just use a BastardSword with a large size.

Can't use the buld (Can only have one multiclass) but thanks for all the manuvers and such I can look those up and try and pick one I can still use.




the build listed only has one multiclass it has 2 prestigue classes but they do not count towards multiclass rules by RAW as they are a seperate thing.  are you limited to 2 classes period? or only 2 base classes? and again what level are you starting at what level are you playing to would help