Help with Ghost Paladin Variant Build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with Ghost Paladin Variant Build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
TarlekFlamhair
Apr 15, 2013 13:11:06
I think I have something decent cooked up here. I'm hoping I didn't break any rules,
and I'm looking for anyway to boost effectiveness across the level range.

Powerful Races at 1st Level Variant PGtF

Race: Star Elf UE

Templates: Magic-Blooded DR#306, Half-Nymph DR#313, Phrenic Expanded Psionics, Fire-Souled DR#314, Ghost MM

Battle Dancer 1 DRComp
      1. Nymph's Kiss BoED

Avenger 9 DR#310
      1. Smiting Arrow Level 1 DR#349
     1. Skilled City Dweller Tumble for Ride  www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/200...
      2. Avenging Strike ToB
      3. Solstice Knight Level 3 DR#338
     3. CHA +1 PHB
     5. Force of Personality CAdv
     5. Dire Hawk MMII Animal Companion
     6. Planar Paladin Substitution Level PlH
     7. CHA +1 PHB
     7. Discerning Insight  www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20...
      8. Divine Might CW

Mystic Wanderer 1 MaF

Exoticist 2 DR#310
   1. Elven Courtblade, Lightblade, Thinblade, Double Bow RotW
      1. CHA +1 PHB
     1. Dodge PHB, Mobility PHB
     2. Combat Expertise PHB

Swashbuckler 3 CW
      2. Power Attack PHB
     3. CHA +1 PHB

Duelist 3
      2. Mounted Combat PHB

Champion of Corellon Larethian 1 RotW
    1. CHA +1

Gauntlets of Heatfelt Blows (12k) DR#314, Slippers of Battledancing (17k) DMGII, Cloak of Charisma +6 (36k) DMG, Belt of Priestly Might (40k) MaF, Bracers of the Blinding Strike (102k) MaF
#2
awaken_D_M_golem
Apr 15, 2013 15:35:47 That PGtF variant hasn't gotten much play around here.
I'm counting LA+2 from Phrenic (normally a good choice)
and LA+5 from being a Ghost (normally not so good).
With the PGtF variant you take a big -7 !! penalty, to start.
Ouch.

You really really don't want to do that.
Is your DM houseruling something gigantic ??

I'd recommend a Ghost Template LA+1 / Psychic Warrior 20 build.
And fit in the fluff / descriptive / feel of your current ideas.
#3
New-Shadow
Apr 15, 2013 16:15:06 I can already see some problems. For one, the Level adjustments, or LA, that the templates you've listed use (LAs take up level slots without giving HD, skill points, BAB, or Save boosts). While I'm not certain how much LA the Ghost template has, Half-Nymph and Phrenic each have LA +2 and Fire-blooded is LA +3. Taken into to acount, this means that (ignoring the Ghost template LA for now) you will be playing this level one character at the time everyone else is playing Level 8 characters. Even if you're using Unearthed Arcana's LA buyoff mechanic, you only get 6 opportunities at most to lower your LA (at levels 3 (if your DM is feeling generous, more than likely not), 6, 9, 12, 15, 18(Like getting feats)), which means at best you'll be a 19 level character with a +1 level adjustment If this is a NPC boss that the players need to fight, and you're the DM, this isn't a problem. If this is a PC you intend to play..., this could get messy.

Your second problem is that Magic-Blooded switches the characters' favored class to Sorceror, so you will be getting hammered with XP penalties on top of the LA you're getting.

What extactly is this character supposed to do during combat (as well as out of it)? What is the campaign story (that you know of)? What enemies are you planning on fighting? What are the other players playing as? What books are legal (beyond what you've used here)?
#4
StevenO
Apr 15, 2013 16:39:42
Even if you're using Unearthed Arcana's LA buyoff mechanic, you only get 6 opportunities at most to lower your LA (at levels 3 (if your DM is feeling generous, more than likely not), 6, 9, 12, 15, 18(Like getting feats)), which means at best you'll be a 19 level character with a +1 level adjustment

Actually, buying off a +7 LA can't even BEGIN to happen until the character has 21 class levels. According to the buy off rules you can use them after you have three times your current LA in class levels; with LA +7 that means you would buy it off at levels 21, 39, 54, 66, 75, 81, and 84 before it is gone. That may seem a little bit insane but that is how LA buy-off is supposed to work. The bigger the LA the later it will be until you can even start to lower it which also means the longer before it is finally gone.

Sorry, no help with the original question because I don't have a clue what is supposed to be going on with all of those things coming from distant corners of the game. I'll just mention that anything pulled from Dragon Magazine is suspect.
#5
Balthanon
Apr 19, 2013 21:37:59

Templates: Magic-Blooded DR#306, Half-Nymph DR#313, Phrenic Expanded Psionics, Fire-Souled DR#314, Ghost MM

LA 0 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 5 = 12 LA.

He isn't using LA buyoff on all that, he's using a variant in Player's Guide to Faerun that gives you a -1 per LA to well, just about everything-- attacks, DCs, saves, armor class, skills. Essentially everything except for hit points.

While that pile of templates will give you a fairly sizeable Charisma bonus, it doesn't offset the penalties he faces in the least. Not to mention the fact that he character will never level since the variant doesn't give you an option of leveling until you get rid of your penalties. (And he'll be dead long before he gets to ECL 14.) He'll never get an opportunity to pick up anything other than Cha to AC.
#6
awaken_D_M_golem
Apr 20, 2013 14:19:28 I only had the 2 templates handy, and as just an example.
Balthanon's got the right answer ... so (-12) it is.

Don't do it.
Just don't.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 TarlekFlamhair Apr 15, 2013 13:11:06	I think I have something decent cooked up here. I'm hoping I didn't break any rules, and I'm looking for anyway to boost effectiveness across the level range. Powerful Races at 1st Level Variant PGtF Race: Star Elf UE Templates: Magic-Blooded DR#306, Half-Nymph DR#313, Phrenic Expanded Psionics, Fire-Souled DR#314, Ghost MM Battle Dancer 1 DRComp 1. Nymph's Kiss BoED Avenger 9 DR#310 1. Smiting Arrow Level 1 DR#349 1. Skilled City Dweller Tumble for Ride www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/200... 2. Avenging Strike ToB 3. Solstice Knight Level 3 DR#338 3. CHA +1 PHB 5. Force of Personality CAdv 5. Dire Hawk MMII Animal Companion 6. Planar Paladin Substitution Level PlH 7. CHA +1 PHB 7. Discerning Insight www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20... 8. Divine Might CW Mystic Wanderer 1 MaF Exoticist 2 DR#310 1. Elven Courtblade, Lightblade, Thinblade, Double Bow RotW 1. CHA +1 PHB 1. Dodge PHB, Mobility PHB 2. Combat Expertise PHB Swashbuckler 3 CW 2. Power Attack PHB 3. CHA +1 PHB Duelist 3 2. Mounted Combat PHB Champion of Corellon Larethian 1 RotW 1. CHA +1 Gauntlets of Heatfelt Blows (12k) DR#314, Slippers of Battledancing (17k) DMGII, Cloak of Charisma +6 (36k) DMG, Belt of Priestly Might (40k) MaF, Bracers of the Blinding Strike (102k) MaF
#2 awaken_D_M_golem Apr 15, 2013 15:35:47	That PGtF variant hasn't gotten much play around here. I'm counting LA+2 from Phrenic (normally a good choice) and LA+5 from being a Ghost (normally not so good). With the PGtF variant you take a big -7 !! penalty, to start. Ouch. You really really don't want to do that. Is your DM houseruling something gigantic ?? I'd recommend a Ghost Template LA+1 / Psychic Warrior 20 build. And fit in the fluff / descriptive / feel of your current ideas.
#3 New-Shadow Apr 15, 2013 16:15:06	I can already see some problems. For one, the Level adjustments, or LA, that the templates you've listed use (LAs take up level slots without giving HD, skill points, BAB, or Save boosts). While I'm not certain how much LA the Ghost template has, Half-Nymph and Phrenic each have LA +2 and Fire-blooded is LA +3. Taken into to acount, this means that (ignoring the Ghost template LA for now) you will be playing this level one character at the time everyone else is playing Level 8 characters. Even if you're using Unearthed Arcana's LA buyoff mechanic, you only get 6 opportunities at most to lower your LA (at levels 3 (if your DM is feeling generous, more than likely not), 6, 9, 12, 15, 18(Like getting feats)), which means at best you'll be a 19 level character with a +1 level adjustment If this is a NPC boss that the players need to fight, and you're the DM, this isn't a problem. If this is a PC you intend to play..., this could get messy. Your second problem is that Magic-Blooded switches the characters' favored class to Sorceror, so you will be getting hammered with XP penalties on top of the LA you're getting. What extactly is this character supposed to do during combat (as well as out of it)? What is the campaign story (that you know of)? What enemies are you planning on fighting? What are the other players playing as? What books are legal (beyond what you've used here)?
#4 StevenO Apr 15, 2013 16:39:42	Even if you're using Unearthed Arcana's LA buyoff mechanic, you only get 6 opportunities at most to lower your LA (at levels 3 (if your DM is feeling generous, more than likely not), 6, 9, 12, 15, 18(Like getting feats)), which means at best you'll be a 19 level character with a +1 level adjustment Actually, buying off a +7 LA can't even BEGIN to happen until the character has 21 class levels. According to the buy off rules you can use them after you have three times your current LA in class levels; with LA +7 that means you would buy it off at levels 21, 39, 54, 66, 75, 81, and 84 before it is gone. That may seem a little bit insane but that is how LA buy-off is supposed to work. The bigger the LA the later it will be until you can even start to lower it which also means the longer before it is finally gone. Sorry, no help with the original question because I don't have a clue what is supposed to be going on with all of those things coming from distant corners of the game. I'll just mention that anything pulled from Dragon Magazine is suspect.
#5 Balthanon Apr 19, 2013 21:37:59	Templates: Magic-Blooded DR#306, Half-Nymph DR#313, Phrenic Expanded Psionics, Fire-Souled DR#314, Ghost MM LA 0 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 5 = 12 LA. He isn't using LA buyoff on all that, he's using a variant in Player's Guide to Faerun that gives you a -1 per LA to well, just about everything-- attacks, DCs, saves, armor class, skills. Essentially everything except for hit points. While that pile of templates will give you a fairly sizeable Charisma bonus, it doesn't offset the penalties he faces in the least. Not to mention the fact that he character will never level since the variant doesn't give you an option of leveling until you get rid of your penalties. (And he'll be dead long before he gets to ECL 14.) He'll never get an opportunity to pick up anything other than Cha to AC.
#6 awaken_D_M_golem Apr 20, 2013 14:19:28	I only had the 2 templates handy, and as just an example. Balthanon's got the right answer ... so (-12) it is. Don't do it. Just don't.