Howeer, I've got more levels to deal with, and the best I can come up with is fighter. I don't really need the feats though, as we've a houserule granting bonus feats every level. And as much fun as it may be, I don't want to do anything like swordsage//warblade. I contemplated doing cloistered cleric on that side, but if I have monk as well, I'd be losing too many caster levels.
Everything is allowed, but I'd like to see what you guys come up with under normal rules instead of bogging you down with all 5 pages of house rules or so.
Going to start around level 8 or 9 by the time I swap, and I foresee the end of the game around level 15.
Yes, I looked at the ToB build thread, but didn't really see anything that caught my eye.
As far as a character concept goes, something that catches off-guard, like you'd never expect the character to be able to do everything he can, would be neat, though a lot of that will come in RPing.
Edit: Level 9 Swordsage gives Evasion, a little late but eh...
Yehaw.
You could go the unarmed route, which would be awesome when combined with wildshape. Due to using wildshape, you're only going to need 2-3 stats, which opens up a daring move of taking some sort of paladin levels to get divine grace.
In order, I would take the following stats: Wis, Con, Cha, Int, Str, Dex but if you are a low point buy or rolled badly, don't even bother with trying to sneak those paladin levels in.
As some people might say (and a certain someone has in their sig!), with psionics the impossibilities are endless. ;)
Wow... can't believe I completely forgot about Psychic Warrior, always wanted to try one. The biggest pitfall would be 3/4 BAB the whole way, though.
Wildshape Ranger would be very fun, too. Decisions, decisions.
I'm iffy about going cloistered cleric. We have a favored soul // barbarian and a telepath // wilder, plus the game seems to favor melee almost. But it would help boost our casting.
Though, I'll have to ask the DM if DMM: Persistant Spell is allowed... if not, is there any way I can pull off unarmed swordsage // psychic warrior with greater than a 3/4 BAB?
The Slayer PRC advances manifesting while giving you full BAB
Ah, cool, thanks. I think I'll toss that on, and should come out fairly decent.
basically i use 2 daggers, at the begining of combat i use time stands still, which gives me 16 attacks in a round, then i use raging mongoose, for another 4. then i start using RKV to recycle raging mongoose. i end up with around 40+ attacks in the first round.
would work well at lower levels to
So a question about going the wildshape route: if I'm wildshaped, I can use my normal unarmed attack routine, followed by any natural weapons as a secondary attack, right?
And one more question, while I have a thread up. Does a swordsage's Wis to AC stack with a monk's Wis to AC? I wouldn't think so, but I don't believe it says it doesn't.
Thanks again.
I guess, one concern I have with swordsage // anything with spells or psionics is then I have to decide each round, spell or maneuver? I guess it gives enough flexibility, and spells can be used out of battle, too, but it just seems like too much to me to have on one character.
So a question about going the wildshape route: if I'm wildshaped, I can use my normal unarmed attack routine, followed by any natural weapons as a secondary attack, right?
And one more question, while I have a thread up. Does a swordsage's Wis to AC stack with a monk's Wis to AC? I wouldn't think so, but I don't believe it says it doesn't.
Thanks again.
It says specifically that it doesn't.
It says specifically that it doesn't.
No it doesn't. There is a Ask Wizards reply on it, but nowhere does it say in the books that they don't stack. Logically they do.
I guess, one concern I have with swordsage // anything with spells or psionics is then I have to decide each round, spell or maneuver? I guess it gives enough flexibility, and spells can be used out of battle, too, but it just seems like too much to me to have on one character.
So a question about going the wildshape route: if I'm wildshaped, I can use my normal unarmed attack routine, followed by any natural weapons as a secondary attack, right?
And one more question, while I have a thread up. Does a swordsage's Wis to AC stack with a monk's Wis to AC? I wouldn't think so, but I don't believe it says it doesn't.
Thanks again.
Schism, Temporal Acceleration, etc. Even just one or two rounds of buffing will be very good.
WotC says Monk and Ninja don't stack. So logically Monk and Unarmed Swordsage don't either, but really it's up to your DM.
Schism, Temporal Acceleration, etc. Even just one or two rounds of buffing will be very good.
Ask Wizards says Monk and Ninja don't stack. So logically Monk and Unarmed Swordsage don't either, but really it's up to your DM.
Monk/Ninja specifically says it doesn't in the Ninja entry.
How can you say that 1 = 2, though, which is what you are saying for Monk/Swordsage not stacking?
Monk/Ninja specifically says it doesn't in the Ninja entry.
How can you say that 1 = 2, though, which is what you are saying for Monk/Swordsage not stacking?
Common sense
And before you start, no, I'm not getting into a debate about it beyond "ask your DM".
Common sense
And before you start, no, I'm not getting into a debate about it beyond "ask your DM".
For what? Not giving an extra Wis to AC when nekkid? For a class that is the DnD equivalent of Steve Urkle? Methinks you overstate things.
Assuming:
- LA buyoff is enabled
- 1 PrC at a time only, and only 1 base class allowed per side (excluding racial HD)
- all non-setting specific WotC books (i.e., no FR, no Eberron) are allowed up to and including Complete Champion (we don't have the later ones, so would be difficult for us to use the stuff in them)
- 3.0 books are not allowed (we don't have them)
- Multiweapon Fighting (MWF) replaces TWF for creatures with 3 or more arms
- race is Thri-Kreen (wanting to abuse MWF coupled with massive base unarmed strike damage)
- 25 point buy, so can assume that I can qualify for most stat requirements except those pertaining to Int and Cha (especially Cha!!!)
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Thri-Kreen (non-Psionic)
Unarmed Swordsage 5/Tiger Claw Master 5/Unarmed Swordsage +10 // Monstrous Humanoid 2/Psychic Warrior 8/Slayer 10
Advantages:
- 4 bonus Fighter/Psionic feats
- Manifester level 17
- Vampiric Blade/Claw
- Expansion
Disadvantages:
- get IMWF and GMWF late (requires BAB +11 and +15 respectively)
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Thri-Kreen (non-Psionic)
Unarmed Swordsage 5/Tiger Claw Master 5/Swordsage +10 // Monstrous Humanoid 2/Ranger (non-spellcasting from Complete Champion) 11/Kensai +7
Advantages:
- free MWF, IMWF, GMWF and at much sooner levels
Disadvantages:
- Vampiric Claw/Blade goes MIA.
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I kinda like the ability to be able to heal myself while beating up on the enemy, particularly if I can bum a Greater Mighty Wallop off the friendly party mage. However, the Ranger's ultra early entry into IMWF and GMWF is also extremely attractive.
Which do you guys think is better and is there any way to refine these builds so that I can drop one in favour of the other? Or is there another build altogether that would do what I am looking for (GMWF + massive, Monk style Unarmed Strikes melee damage artist)?
swordsage // duskblade
you may not have to choose whether to cast or maneuver. it might be a stretch but theoretically you could use arcane channeling to cast a spell into your weapon as you make a strike. look it over. might be cool.
or
swordsage 15 // sorcerer 4 / fighter 2 / spellsword 9
same thing. less likely to be breaking any rules, but takes one round to cast and one round to maneuver. more versatile casting.
what about:
swordsage // duskblade
you may not have to choose whether to cast or maneuver. it might be a stretch but theoretically you could use arcane channeling to cast a spell into your weapon as you make a strike. look it over. might be cool.
or
swordsage 15 // sorcerer 4 / fighter 2 / spellsword 9
same thing. less likely to be breaking any rules, but takes one round to cast and one round to maneuver. more versatile casting.
Thri-kreen has -2 Int, -4Cha, so unfortunately, those would not be optimal choices
No it doesn't. There is a Ask Wizards reply on it, but nowhere does it say in the books that they don't stack. Logically they do.
If you're going by RAW, swordsages only get it in light armor and monks only get it without armor, so you can't stack them. RAW or RAI, you don't get both.
If you're going by RAW, swordsages only get it in light armor and monks only get it without armor, so you can't stack them. RAW or RAI, you don't get both.
THere is a reply on that said the intention was that it works. Going by other light armour precedents, like that of the Ranger, it works.
However, the Ask Wizard article directly contradicts the same bonus stacking rule, and so need to be ignored (like the FAQ and Sage advice).
I must say that he performed quite well in the arena. Nothing like a flurrying, hasted, pouncing, Searing Charge with Raging Mongoose thrown in to really get your opponent's attention. ;)
is thri-kreen a must?
No, it is not. But it would need multiple arms/limbs as the intent is to abuse Multi-Weapon Fighting.
For the other replies, the restriction is for 1 base class per side, and 1 PrC at a time only, so the Lion Pouncer will not work, I don't think. Also, I haven't thought about an archer build for it. To be honest, I very much prefer a "I will run up to you and punch you in the face" than pull out a bow. Thank you for your replies though, I will definitely keep them in mind for future builds.
i may sound like a broken record but spells plus maneuvers is crazy damage. oh and power attack wouldnt suck.
Also it is a good exercise for me to learn to optimise within certain parameters instead of the wide open style of optimising that is the norm here on these boards.