The goal for this character is to retain the flavor first, but optimize its upward power as much as possible. The main problem is this character is spread waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too thin. But... I'd rather have the abilities I am after and be spread too thin, then to not have the abilities in the first place.
In theory this is a simple build. But using the WOTC books to do it effectively, is nearly impossible. Here's my goal:
I want to accomplish the following goals with feats, classes, prestige classes, race, skills, class features, and avoid using magic items as much as possible to accomplish my goals. The character will start at level 1, so I'm trying to avoid LA races.
Primary theme: get into/out of places (via mundane and magical methods), travel long and short distances, eventually travel to different planes and be able to survive in as many environments as possible. General survival capabilities such as tracking, water breathing, energy resistance, etc.
Secondary themes: A) Bow specialist in any circumstance including distanced and melee/close combat with the bow; B) Be able to deal with evil outsiders.
Here's my basic setup with very approximate levels given in () - classes are in no particular order:
CN 1/2 elf or elf (possibly looking at variants - needed to qualify for Wild Runner which then qualifies character for Arcane Hierophant)
-Wilderness Rogue base class (1 or 2) with some substitution skills (CityScape web Enhancement). Rogue skills are somewhat crucial to the build at low levels, though I'm willing to do an alternate method to get them.
-"positive casting" Cleric (2) (to deal with evil outsiders - possible variant to turning for evil outsiders, and to gain travel related domains) --- probably Cloistered Cleric from UA.
-Wizard or Sorcerer (2) (to travel magically, and to deal with evil outsiders)
-Wild Runner (1) (to qualify for Arcane Hierophant and to enhance base speed)
-Exotic weapon master (1) to not provoke AOO's with exotic bow
-Possible Horizon Walker (1 or more) to gain planar/environment benefits such as undergroud (darkvision), etc.
-Arcane Hierophant (most upper levels spent here) (for divine plus arcane spell power)
-Possible Druid (1) to gain animal companion for powerful Arcane Hierophant familiar companion (since Arcane Hierophant is my most leveled class).
-or-
-Possible Ranger (1) to gain track feat free, favored enemy (evil outsiders), and martial weapon proficiency (armor spikes) - if I do this I would only take regular Rogue 1 level (instead of wilderness rogue).
-Possible Bloodlines from Unearthed Arcana (1-3 levels) to enhance primary goals (Vampire, Cloud Giant - freedom of movement/water breathing are decent options).
-Planar prestige class from Planar Handbook.
-Possible Arcane Trickster as an alternative build.
Other:
Armor spikes to allow threaten even while using bow, and as primary back up weapon. Feats: Track, Urban Tracking, the rest generally having to do with bow use (ranged threaten from Dragon 350) and/or combat casting related. Travel Devotion likely. Amulet of the Planes a likely magic item addition at high levels. Take some flaws to gain feats.
I've considered Factotum, Scout, Ranger, and Chameleon as alternative base class/prc options, but will likely not take Chameleon or Factotum.
Lastly, I am keeping xp multi-classing penalties in mind with the build.
Ok... I know/agree - way too much stuff - those are the one's I'm looking into as options. But based on the primary function, it takes a lot of classes to get what I want. Not all of those classes/prc's will be in the build.
I don't really want a jack-of-all trades at all (aka Bard/Factotum/Chameleon). I don't want to be a great mage, or powerful cleric (unless that satisfies the primary goal). I don't need Arcane Hierophant; however, that is one way to increase the Cleric Domains alongside the Mage casting & is a good solution if I'm taking those anyway. Mage is almost essential to the mix due to the travel/survivability/escape/movement spells. Rogue (or a variation) has a key set of skills that I couldn't see this character without. Ranger is the primary flavor, but the only reason I'd dip into it is for the abilities/feats at 1st and 2nd level.
I'm half tempted to do a Wilderness Rogue/Wizard/Arcane trickster build with a 1 level dip into one or two prc's (EWM/WR maybe), but I will lose out on the Cloistered Cleric Travel Devotion, Celerity or Travel Domains, and some basic healing like remove disease, etc. Losing the Cleric stuff is okay, but not optimal. Additionally, I can't mix AT with the other build, because it would result in xp multiclassing penalties by having to take Rogue too high compared to other base classes.
But I do want a mundane survivor/travel specialist at low levels, a magical traveler/survivor at mid levels, and an extra planar traveler/survivor at mid/high to high levels. This really should have been a base class/prc progression, because the intent is straight forward.... the Ultimate traveling Ranger.
Clearly at high levels, a character spread too thin like this is not going to survive long, so how can I improve this?
If I were to build a demi-god of travel/survivability mundane and magical, who happens to specialize in the bow, what would be the best build (considering the character is playing from level 1 up)?
Here's one thought with Arcane Trickster... is there a prc, class variant (like ranger), or feat that enhances sneak attack at 1st level by +1d6, and only requires 1 (or 2) levels of Rogue to join? The sneak attack entry requirement of AT requires a 3rd level rogue to get into it. So maybe I can to Rogue 1, prc 1, to get into AT quicker?
Just use Unseen Seer. It's better than AT anyways.
Just use Unseen Seer. It's better than AT anyways.
Thanks for the tip. I've been considering it, but it loses some of the class skills of the Rogue and slower Sneak Attack progression.
That is a quicker way in I believe, tho.
In order to get all of the travelling goodness that you're looking for, you're going to have to accumulate quite a few levels of some full casting class (especially plane shift), so the question becomes, do you do it with arcane or with divine? You seem to be fairly convinced that the answer is arcane, but none of the arcane gishy base classes are much for getting you up there in the casting ranks. I think the biggest problem with your request is that you're asking for everything, without giving us a good idea of what your priorities are. The hull of this ship is probably going to have to be wizard/sorcerer or cleric. I'm leaning toward cleric as this gives you casting base, domain flexibility and zen archery to enable your bow capabilities. I can't see how you're going to get all the feats in that you need, but perhaps if you can more-clearly structure your request, some of the real power-houses on the board can help you piece it together.
Well, the primary goal is the travel/survivability thing. Basically mundane at first, then magical, then planar. Bow is the character's primary weapon (including in melee).
So here's what I envision.
Rogue right out the gate for mundane skills & skill points: open lock, disable device, trapfinding, tumble, hide, search, move silently, escape artist, use rope, etc. Plus sneak attack for that extra little bit of damage. These skills become less useful as the character progresses, unless I go Arcane trickster which allows the skills to grow simultaneously with the casting.
Low level Feats (possibly through Ranger class abilities) for track, urban tracking, endurance, then mostly bow feat path. Flaws will help gain a couple feats.
Then get some spell casting to help with the primary goal:
Arcane has a ton I can think of like invisibility, spider climb, feather fall, knock, various illusions, haste, fly, grease, rope trick, levitate, freedom of movement, gaseous form, resist elements, detect alignment, blink, sleep, slow, various divination, expedious retreat, water breathing, dark vision, light, darkness, create food and water, silence, arrow mind, plus some nice offensive spells that can work with the bow or ranged sneak attack. etc., etc.. That's why I lean toward Arcane instinctively for this build. I am open to divine, but the spell selection of Arcane seem better geared toward the flavor. Divine, I'd be looking more at survival spells like remove disease/curse, heroes feast, light healing, purify food and water, buffing defenses, etc., and quite possibly if I dip divine for the travel devotion and travel related domains, I'd likely go Arcane Hierophant.
As the character progresses, I'm leaning toward Arcane Hierophant as the primary class path if I took Cloistered Cleric at some point (for travel devotion/travel or celerity domains). Arcane Hierophant to up his power since he's spread so thin to begin with.
This would require 1 lvl dip into wild runner to qualify (which is a decent choice anyway since speed is +10) plus trackless step, and possibly scent & primal scream with an extra dip.
At higher levels, teleport, ethereal spells, incorporal spells, etc. Add planar prestige class dip for planar survivability.
The problem with spreading too thin is I'll never have access to some higher level flavor based spells (greater teleport, astral/planar stuff), while at the same time my combat will suck, and it will be near impossible to do much against equal CR foes (like evil outsiders). This is why I was thinking amulet of the planes as one needed magic item.
Bloodlines/races can also help with energy immunities, modes of travel (flight), etc., but bloodlines/LA races eat up valuable class levels.
I'm also looking at fiendish grafts to get flight, possible darkvision, etc. Magic items are a last resort for travel purposes, but are an occasional option (freedom of movement, true seeing for example). I'd rather put most magic item slots toward defense/offense/better spell power. I can incoporate some survivability into the armor as a last resort (energy immunities), and situational survivability as use based magic items (like water breathing).
If I avoid divine, then I'd likely go Arcane Trickster over Arcane Heirophant, because that might be the better fit.
Race-wise I'm open to anything with little to no LA, but some sort of Elf/half elf is required if I go the Arcane Hierophant path through Wildrunner. If I go through druid (unlikely) race is open too, but I'll run into xp penalties. If I don't go AH, then I can be more flexible with race (tiefling looks good for example or whisper gnome).
The character will be more of a solo/2-party adventurer/survivor who travels a lot. His most common ally is a beguiler type (probably rogue/wizard/AT build) whose job is espionage, actual thieving, information gathering locally, diplomacy, coercing npc's, and later heading a tiny goal specific thieves guild disguised as a tavern of course. They are part of a 5 person party at early levels, before they go more solo.
The traveler character does missions requiring him to be worldly/extra planar eventually. This includes all types of environments (including underground, overland, eventually air/aquatic/fire/ice). His function in the overall story is typical of an "Ultimate, magically enhanced" Ranger. Stealth, long distance messenger, long distance gatherer of information, tracker, finder, recon, sniper, occasional assassin, getting through enemy lines, explorer, etc. He is not a rogue in the traditional sense and is not a beguiler/charmer/diplomacy type, but Rogue skills are important at early levels for their mundane applications for a master of travel/surviving in any environment/getting into and out of anything. In battle (including melee) he will use 100% bow, and will use his mobility to aid him (and spell use). Sometimes paralyzing/slowing/silencing/dividing/confusing the enemy is enough to win the battle, but if it goes bad, he needs to be a master of escape. Keeping the enemy at a distance and incapacitating enemy archers/spell casters is a big goal. He won't want to fight an army of enemies, but will rather circumvent the enemies to get to the main BBEG or goal. At high levels, he will be doing some of this on other planes (aka planar explorer/hunt down or find something or someone on another plane/interplanar messenger), and will be encountering fiendish enemies.
I'm hoping I just missed some great class/prc/feat combo that will allow for an "Ultimate" travel/survival ranger build.
When you multi-class for an arcane base class, I suggest taking focused conjurer and trading your familiar ability for abrupt jaunt (int bonus times per day immediate action 10' teleport with no components). Also, for flavor you should take a serious look at Wayfarer Guide in Complete Arcane. Requirements are knowledge arcana and knowledge geography, plus ability to cast teleport. Only good for a one-level dip which will give you 50% enhanced range and one additional passenger. Second level doesn't advance casting, so leave it at that. +2 Will Save and d6 hit points.
Really good tips. What book can I find the abrupt jaunt variant - that sounds right up my alley?
Player's Handbook II, page 68.
Awesome - thank you.
I'm still open to the straight divine side of things if that is a better option than Arcane. But if I go divine, so far I'm convinced there's a good chance I'll also go Arcane then Arcane Hierophant.
Are there enough spells/abilities up the divine tree (with the domains) to make up for those flavored ones lost by not going Arcane? I'd just as soon go Cleric/Rogue/prc path, but it seems I lose so many utility arcane spells, that I'd lose the whole goal of the character.
Open to any better strategies within the confines of my primary goal - and it would be nice if my mix and match character doesn't get wiped everytime he tries to battle.
Lastly, I could still use Arcane Trickster in the Arcane Hierophant build if I wanted to increase my Sneak Attack/skills progression (maybe a 1 level dip). So, I would consider Rogue 1, Spellthief 1, AT 1 in the Arcane Hierophant build to up my damage & skills while also gaining an Arcane spell level plus that ranged thieving/manipulation thing.
Man, this one is messy.
BTW, Someone on another forum topic suggested spellthief 1/rogue 1 to get into Arcane Trickster 1 level quicker with faster Sneak Attack progression.
Player's Handbook II, page 68.
That was a good find. I also like (for this character) one of the other options that gives you different forms of movement (climb/fly, etc.).
I'm not set on my build or path, but I am set on the flavor.
I'm open to any argument/suggestion that would help me to see one of these builds as better than the other within the confines of the primary goal, or some other totally different build I haven't thought of yet. I have received various opinions but no final build and have taken a bit from each. Again, magic items are possible, but I don't want a survival/travel type character who has to heavily rely on magic items to do his primary function except in rarer circumstances. Spells/classes/prc's/low LA or basic races/feats/variant abilities are all considered:
1) Cloistered Cleric build with Rogue/Ranger/prc - no Arcane.
2) Arcane/Divine build with Arcane Hierophant as primary path, with other classes/prc's for flavor/abilities.
3) Arcane build with Arcane Trickster as primary path plus other classes/prc's for flavor/abilities.
Are any of these, just a really bad idea? A really good idea? I'll sacrafice upward power for flavor, but I'd like to survive in battle too.
I don't think I mentioned this before, but I have most non-campaign books 3 and 3.5 plus ECS. No adventures. No variant system books except UA. No psionics books. WOTC products only. I'd be willing to look into psionics/variant system books (MoI, ToB, WoL, etc.) if that totally solves my problem, but I'm gearing away from those generally.
Unseen seer is reputed to be far superior to other PRCs when it comes to advancing roguish abilities and spellcasting. It's in Complete Mage. Beguiler is in PHBII.
[edit] I like this build, though it's probably not close to optimal, because you'll be a viable rogue and a decent spellcaster throughout. If you go past sixteen, you can always choose to advance rogue or spellcasting, or you can take another PRC like arcane trickster or daggerspell mage to get some of both.
You'll have shortbow and rapier as class skills, unless you choose an elf (gray elf gets bonuses to int and dex which is all you, but you may find that you need feats more than you need that longbow, so something for you to ponder.
cleric BAB, and 4+int skill points per lv. It also has rules for adapting to spell casters.
Freedom of movement... Third Level... Swift Action... FOR WIZARDS! That's win in a box with a shiny wrapper right there. It's transmutation btw, not that you're likely to ban that or abjuration.
Keep in mind that a focused specialist or plain specialist can both benefit from immediate magic: abrupt jaunt. FYI you can also swap out scribe scroll for improved initiative. Unearthed Arcana I believe.
[edit] note that neither unseen seer nor arcane trickster has any feat requirements, so you can pretty-much spend your normal feats on combat and bow feats.
You might want to look at the Jaunter from the Expedition to the Demonweb Pits (p. 172). It is only a 4 lv class, but you need dodge, mobility, and spring attack to get in, some knowledge planes, and have visited 2 other planes. You get various travel powers a few times a day: benign transposition, dimension door, freedom of movement, teleport, and plane shift. Dex is a big part of how many times per day you can use the abilities.
cleric BAB, and 4+int skill points per lv. It also has rules for adapting to spell casters.
That sounds like a good addition - thanks for the tip. Unfortunately I don't have that supplement yet, but I might have to find a copy... I think it had a couple prc's that were worth looking into (a fiend slayer or something too).
HD= d8
Prereqs:
Knowledge(the Planes) 4
feats: Dodge,Mobility,Spring Attack
special:must have visited at least 2 other planes, not including your home plane
Skills:
4+Int/ Class lvl:
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge(The Planes), Listen, Move Silent, Speak Language, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble
Medium BAB
Saves: Good Ref, Poor Will,Fort
class Abilities:
1st lvl .... Travel Power.... # of Uses = Class lvl+Dex mod, gain +1AC as long as you have one use left
Benign transposition: cost 1 Travel Power use, 100' range
2nd lvl .... +10' Land Speed(med Armor or less, no hvy load)
Baleful Transposition: cost 1 Travel Power use
3rd lvl ..... Dimension Door : 30'/class lvl/day, min 10' increments
Teleport: cost 2 Travel Power uses
4th lvl ... Freedom of Movement: 8 rounds/day as a Swift action
Plane Shift: cost 2 Travel Power uses
There is a basic summary from an old thread based off a build Carnivore made. Should let you know whether or not it's worth your time to find the book.
Jaunter
HD= d8
Prereqs:
Knowledge(the Planes) 4
feats: Dodge,Mobility,Spring Attack
special:must have visited at least 2 other planes, not including your home plane
Skills:
4+Int/ Class lvl:
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge(The Planes), Listen, Move Silent, Speak Language, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble
Medium BAB
Saves: Good Ref, Poor Will,Fort
class Abilities:
1st lvl .... Travel Power.... # of Uses = Class lvl+Dex mod, gain +1AC as long as you have one use left
Benign transposition: cost 1 Travel Power use, 100' range
2nd lvl .... +10' Land Speed(med Armor or less, no hvy load)
Baleful Transposition: cost 1 Travel Power use
3rd lvl ..... Dimension Door : 30'/class lvl/day, min 10' increments
Teleport: cost 2 Travel Power uses
4th lvl ... Freedom of Movement: 8 rounds/day as a Swift action
Plane Shift: cost 2 Travel Power uses
There is a basic summary from an old thread based off a build Carnivore made. Should let you know whether or not it's worth your time to find the book.
I'm guessing no caster advancement?
Jaunter
HD= d8
Prereqs:
Knowledge(the Planes) 4
feats: Dodge,Mobility,Spring Attack
special:must have visited at least 2 other planes, not including your home plane
Skills:
4+Int/ Class lvl:
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge(The Planes), Listen, Move Silent, Speak Language, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble
Medium BAB
Saves: Good Ref, Poor Will,Fort
class Abilities:
1st lvl .... Travel Power.... # of Uses = Class lvl+Dex mod, gain +1AC as long as you have one use left
Benign transposition: cost 1 Travel Power use, 100' range
2nd lvl .... +10' Land Speed(med Armor or less, no hvy load)
Baleful Transposition: cost 1 Travel Power use
3rd lvl ..... Dimension Door : 30'/class lvl/day, min 10' increments
Teleport: cost 2 Travel Power uses
4th lvl ... Freedom of Movement: 8 rounds/day as a Swift action
Plane Shift: cost 2 Travel Power uses
There is a basic summary from an old thread based off a build Carnivore made. Should let you know whether or not it's worth your time to find the book.
Definitely something I will be seriously considering as an alternative. First time I've heard of it while doing this build. It's a definite 4th alternative option if I went less spell caster. I see it working best with a more mundane build, but is a very viable option if combined with rogue/ranger, perhaps a bit of CL Cleric, and planar handbook prc at higher levels. More of a physical threat build than an Arcane build. Interesting option.
Otherwise, I'd suggest Wizard 5/ Unseen Seer 4/ Wayfarer Guide 3/ Unseen Seer 6/ Archmage 2.
Use Spontaneous Divination + Hunter's Eye via Advanced Learning.
Another way to get freedom of movement (normally a cleric/druid/ranger/bard spell, abjuration) is a third level spell from Complete Mage called Heart of Water. This is an hours/level buff that gives you swim speed and water breathing, plus light fortification and a hefty bonus to escape artist. Plus, you can invoke a swift action rounds/level freedom of movement any time during the duration, which subsequently ends the spell.
Freedom of movement... Third Level... Swift Action... FOR WIZARDS! That's win in a box with a shiny wrapper right there. It's transmutation btw, not that you're likely to ban that or abjuration.
Good find!
If you are going for a mundane build, I'd second the Jaunter, and suggest adding some levels of Horizon Walker.
Otherwise, I'd suggest Wizard 5/ Unseen Seer 4/ Wayfarer Guide 3/ Unseen Seer 6/ Archmage 2.
Use Spontaneous Divination + Hunter's Eye via Advanced Learning.
Good tips.
At first, I tended toward Horizon Walker as that is the exact flavor I'm going for. But later, I geared more toward Planar Handbook prc's at high levels instead, because they were much better at planar travel.
The Transporter
Fire Elf(+2 Dex,+2 Int,-2 Con,-2 Cha)
Ranger 2((Substitution lvl 1) Trapfinding Variant)/ Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Swordsage 2/ Crusader 2/ Champion of Corellon 2/ Jaunter 4/ Shadow Dancer 2/ Exotic Weapon Master 1
Ranger((Elf Substitution lvl 1) Trapfinding Variant) 1.... looses track, Gains Trapfinding and Disable Device is Class Skill, also Sub lvl gives 8 Skill points!!!!!.... @ 1st level he gets 44 skill points!!!, Feat: Combat reflexes
Attributes:
32 point buy
20 Str(base 14 +6 Belt)
32 Dex(base 14 +2 Racial +5 lvls+5 Inherent+6 Belt)
18 Con(base 14 -2 racial+6 Belt)
26 Int(base 14 +2 Racial +4 inherent+6 Belt)
20 Wis(base 14 +6 Belt)
14 Cha(base 10 -2 racial +6 Belt)
Feats:
2 Wpn Fighting(ranger bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(Swashbuckler bonus)
Dodge(monk bonus)
Mobility(monk bonus)
Spring Attack(CoC bonus)
1st lvl Combat reflexes
3rd lvl Exotic Weapon(Lightblade)
6th lvl Combat Expertise
9th lvl Mounted Combat
12th lvl Shadow Blade
15th lvl Weapon Focus(Lightblade)
18th lvl Robilars Gambit
Exotic Weapon Stunt:
Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting – when wielding the
same Light Exotic Weapon in each hand, you
are treated as having the Feat: Two Weapon
Fighting. If you actually have the feat, then the
penalty is reduced from –2 to –1 on each hand.
Martial Manuvers:
Swordsage ... 11th lvl Initiator...6th lvl manuvers
Crusader ...... 11th lvl initiator ... 6th lvl manuvers
Also he has Access to a few Shadow Hand manuvers and other Manuvers(Devoted Spirit,White Raven,etc...)... but Shadow Hand also have some Quick Teleport abilities, and great combat manuvers and Stances. i havent even looked into what would be best.... feel free to suggest some.
What this Build gives:
Dex to Attack
2x Dex to Damage(CoC 2, and Shadow Blade feat... using Lightblade(Shortsword)
Str to Damage
Int to Damage
Wis to AC
Dex to AC
BAB +16
Attack bonus=BAB +16 +11 Dex +5 Enhancement +1 Haste -1 2 Wpn Fight= +32
Full Attack with 2 weapon Fighting Improved 2 weapon Fighting and Speed Weapon =
+32/+32/+27/+22/+17 and +32/+27 and 11 AoO @+32 Robilars Gambit
basically he gets 14 Attacks @ +32 and +27/+27/+22/+17 ... all doing Average +47 Damage each Hit .... if all hit he does 846 Damage/round..not too bad for a 2 Weapon Finnesse fighter who doesnt need Power Attack, and he heals 18d6 per round if all hit ..... this doesnt even take into consideration Martial Manuvers from Swordsage or Crusader
+35 to Damage without counting Weapon Enhancements or anything other than Attributes, total Weapon Damage= +35+ 5 enhancement +1d6 Vampiric +1d6 Weapon= Average +47 Damage each Hit
weapons:
212000gp(+/-)2 swords =
1) +1(+5 GMW) Keen Vampiric Speed with Vanishing Kaorti resin Elven Lightblade 1d6(15-20/x4)
2)+1(+5 GMW) Keen Vampiric Eager Transmuting with Vanishing Kaorti resin Elven Lightblade 1d6(15-20/x4)
200000gp +6 belt of magnificense
238770gp 9 points Inherent Bonuses(Wishes cast by 17th lvl Wiz)
10000gp Ring of Avoidance 3/day +20 Deflection AC 1 round
6000gp Ring of Anticipation
43200gp 2x Tooth of Dahlver Nar(Leraje.... cast greater magic weapon @20th Caster level... to give Each Sword +5 Enhancement, that lasts 20 hours)
8000gp Gloves of the Balanced Hand .... give Imp 2 Weapon Fighting
12000gp Boots of Speed
:D
If you are going for a mundane build, I'd second the Jaunter, and suggest adding some levels of Horizon Walker.
Otherwise, I'd suggest Wizard 5/ Unseen Seer 4/ Wayfarer Guide 3/ Unseen Seer 6/ Archmage 2.
Use Spontaneous Divination + Hunter's Eye via Advanced Learning.
How are you getting into Unseen Seer without sneak attack or rogue class skills? Also, Wayfarer Guide 2 doesn't advance casting.
How are you getting into Unseen Seer without sneak attack or rogue class skills? Also, Wayfarer Guide 2 doesn't advance casting.
You're right about the Rogue skills, I wasn't thinking, but Sneak attack isn't a prerequisite, I'm rather sure.
[sblock=Core Dragon Slayer]
CORE Dragon Slayer
This should be effective vs any creature....but especially vs Dragons(ANY)
try this ..... first what the Dragon of Similar CR can do.... CR 20 Red Dragon =
CR 20 Old Red Dragon
[indent]
Gargantuan
HD 28d12+196 (378 hit points)
Speed:40 ft., fly 200 ft. (clumsy)
Initiative +0
AC 33 (–4 size, +27 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 33
DR 10/magic
SR 24
Sorceror caster lvl =11th , 5th lvl spells
35 Str
10 Dex
25 Con
20 Int
21 Wis
20 Cha
BAB+28/+52 Grapple
+36 Attack Bonus
saves(FRW) +23/ +16 /+21
Breath Weapon 16d10 (save DC 31) 60' cone
Frightful presence DC 29(240' range)
Blindsense (Ex): Dragons can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 60 feet. Opponents the dragon can’t actually see still have total concealment against the dragon.
Keen Senses (Ex): A dragon sees four times as well a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.
Skills:
Spot 36
Listen 36
Search 36
[/indent]
vs:
Human
Ranger 6/ Fighter 4/ Horizon Walker 6/ Shadowdancer 4
28 Str (Base 14+4 inherent +4 levels+ 6 item)
28 Dex (Base 16+5 inherent +1 level +6 item)
20 Con (Base 14+6 item)
12 Int (Base 12)
10 Wis (Base 10)
8 Cha (Base 8)
Feats:
1st lvl Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus(Composite Long bow)(human Bonus)
Track (Ranger Bonus)
Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus)
3rd lvl Precise Shot/ Endurance (Ranger Bonus)
6th lvl DodgeMany Shot (Ranger Bonus)
Mobility (Fighter Bonus)
Combat Reflexes(Fighter Bonus)
9th lvl Quickdraw
Weapon Specialization(Composite Longbow)(Fighter Bonus)
12th lvl Shoot on the Run
15th lvl Quicken Spell-like Ability(Dimension Door)
18th lvl Improved Initiative
Base Saves(FRW)15/12/6 ...
+1 Luck all
+1 Haste(Ref)
+5 Fort(con)
+9 Ref(Dex)
+4 Resistance(rod) all
+2 Morale All
final saves:
FRW 27/29/13
BAB +19
Attack: BAB+19 + 1 Haste + 1 Insight +2 Competence +7 Enhancement+ 9 Dex +2 Morale = +41 Attack
Full Attack with Rapid Shot and Haste @ 330'= +35/+35/+35/+30/+25/+20
Damage:
4.5 Composite Arrow + 4 Fav enemy + 2 Morale +1 Insight + 1 Competence +9 Str +2 Wpn Spclz + +7 Holy +7 Axiomatic +7 Bane +5.25 frost = average 49.75 points of Damage + 1pt Con damage with each hit(2 Hits do 28 additional points of Damage from Con loss)
estimate 1 1/2 rounds of Combat to Kill...if 4 shots Hit(199 damage+56 from con damage) round 1, 4 shots Hit(199 damage+56 from con damage) round 2
AC +1 Haste +1 Insight +2 Deflection(Magic Circ vs Evil)
Skills:.... these might be higher, havent checked for everything yet
29 Spot 23 ranks + 4 competence + 2 Morale
26 Search 23 ranks +1 Int+ 2 Morale
25 Listen 23 ranks+ 2 Morale
38 Hide 23 ranks + 4 competence+ 2 Morale+9 Dex
34 Move Silent 23 ranks + 2 Morale+9 Dex
Horizon Walker Terrain Mastery chosen
Desert: You resist effects that tire you. You are immune to fatigue, and anything that would cause you to become exhausted makes you fatigued instead. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against desert creatures.
Forest: You have a +4 competence bonus on Hide checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against forest creatures.
Mountains: You gain a +4 competence bonus on Climb checks, or a +10- foot bonus to your climb speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against mountain creatures.
Plains: You have a +4 competence bonus on Spot checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against plains creatures.
Underground: You have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against underground creatures.
Shifting (Planar): You instinctively anticipate shifts in the reality of the plane that bring you closer to your destination, giving you the spell-like ability to use dimension door (as the spell cast at your character level) once every 1d4 rounds. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against outsiders and elementals native to a shifting plane.
Desert: You resist effects that tire you. You are immune to fatigue, and anything that would cause you to become exhausted makes you fatigued instead. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against desert creatures.
Forest: You have a +4 competence bonus on Hide checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against forest creatures.
Mountains: You gain a +4 competence bonus on Climb checks, or a +10- foot bonus to your climb speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against mountain creatures.
Plains: You have a +4 competence bonus on Spot checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against plains creatures.
Underground: You have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against underground creatures.
Shifting (Planar): You instinctively anticipate shifts in the reality of the plane that bring you closer to your destination, giving you the spell-like ability to use dimension door (as the spell cast at your character level) once every 1d4 rounds. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against outsiders and elementals native to a shifting plane.
It occurred to me after reviewing the arcane trickster PRC that you could go Rogue 1 (1d6 sneak attack), Wizard (focused conjurer) 4, Unseen Seer 1, then Arcane Trickster 10, and avoid loosing any casting levels for your non-divination spells, get more sneak attack, then finish up with another full-casting PRC for a caster level of 19 at 20th, 7d6 sneak attack (unless you got more after AT), and avoid needing practiced spellcaster as a feat. Either human or elf would avoid xp penalties for multiclassing, and if human you could use your extra feat for able learner, which would make all of your rogue and wizard skills class skills costing 1 point, which could open up knowledge devotion goodness, or perhaps just make you a supreme skill monkey. All that and no arcane failure in light armor, plus you're almost as powerful a spellcaster as a 100% wizard.
Keep in mind that a focused specialist or plain specialist can both benefit from immediate magic: abrupt jaunt. FYI you can also swap out scribe scroll for improved initiative. Unearthed Arcana I believe.
[edit] note that neither unseen seer nor arcane trickster has any feat requirements, so you can pretty-much spend your normal feats on combat and bow feats.
I like this build - this is more-or-less along the lines of where I was headed if I went straight arcane.
For the record, I don't prefer beguiler as the primary class. It meets some of the requirements of the character, but this particular character is more a magical traveling/surviving bow user type, as opposed to a shadowy magical charmer type. That's why this build you posted here seems much better flavor-wise. Thieving is secondary to travel, but it just so happens thieving helps in so many ways for this character (including flavor). I can't see a master of getting into/out of places and surviving once there not have Rogue in the mix. And Rogue gives sneak attack which is a huge plus for a mix and match character with a bow.
(I have another Beguiler style build for another character, but I went rogue/wizard/AT route for that as well). The other thing I don't like about beguiler in the straight build is the lack of important spells that the AT gets.
In the Rogue/AT build, vs. beguiler build you get sneak attack, and spells that really compliment it (like greater invisibility, rays, etc.). Plus utility spells a magically enhanced Rogue should have that a Beguiler doesn't (feather fall, spider climb, arrowmind, etc.).
I love the flavor of Beguiler, but I think it's better built using other classes.
Unseen seer. This one I have mixed emotions about. It is far better in getting you into the class quicker on the Arcane side, but a bit slower on the Rogue side (I believe). Practiced spell caster is crucial, and isn't too much to give up - that's a really good point. The other things I don't like about unseen seer is: slower/less sneak attack progression vs. AT, and missing some important Rogue skills like Open Lock, Disable Device (I think). I tend to go toward AT myself, unless I am more of a caster build (plus I like the few AT class abilities for the Rogue type). The other exception like you posted in this build is a very good use... a quick dip to qualify quicker for AT or another casting prc without losing a spell casting level. Able learner might help with the cross class skills problem here too between AT vs. Unseen Seer. It does have some advantages such as precision damage vs. just sneak attack, and more skill points across fewer skills. I think long dips into AT is better for Ultimate Rogue builds, but long dips into US is better for spellcasting precision damage builds who pecialize in divination alot (like Scout/Unseen Seer). I also like guarded mind.
Thanks for taking time to post the tips/pointers. Lotsa good ones, and some I'll definitely be using.
Where did the no Arcane spell failure come from in light armor in this build?
try this:
The Transporter
Fire Elf(+2 Dex,+2 Int,-2 Con,-2 Cha)
Ranger 2((Substitution lvl 1) Trapfinding Variant)/ Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Swordsage 2/ Crusader 2/ Champion of Corellon 2/ Jaunter 4/ Shadow Dancer 2/ Exotic Weapon Master 1
Ranger((Elf Substitution lvl 1) Trapfinding Variant) 1.... looses track, Gains Trapfinding and Disable Device is Class Skill, also Sub lvl gives 8 Skill points!!!!!.... @ 1st level he gets 44 skill points!!!, Feat: Combat reflexes
Attributes:
32 point buy
20 Str(base 14 +6 Belt)
32 Dex(base 14 +2 Racial +5 lvls+5 Inherent+6 Belt)
18 Con(base 14 -2 racial+6 Belt)
26 Int(base 14 +2 Racial +4 inherent+6 Belt)
20 Wis(base 14 +6 Belt)
14 Cha(base 10 -2 racial +6 Belt)
Feats:
2 Wpn Fighting(ranger bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(Swashbuckler bonus)
Dodge(monk bonus)
Mobility(monk bonus)
Spring Attack(CoC bonus)
1st lvl Combat reflexes
3rd lvl Exotic Weapon(Lightblade)
6th lvl Combat Expertise
9th lvl Mounted Combat
12th lvl Shadow Blade
15th lvl Weapon Focus(Lightblade)
18th lvl Robilars Gambit
Exotic Weapon Stunt:
Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting – when wielding the
same Light Exotic Weapon in each hand, you
are treated as having the Feat: Two Weapon
Fighting. If you actually have the feat, then the
penalty is reduced from –2 to –1 on each hand.
Martial Manuvers:
Swordsage ... 11th lvl Initiator...6th lvl manuvers
Crusader ...... 11th lvl initiator ... 6th lvl manuvers
Also he has Access to a few Shadow Hand manuvers and other Manuvers(Devoted Spirit,White Raven,etc...)... but Shadow Hand also have some Quick Teleport abilities, and great combat manuvers and Stances. i havent even looked into what would be best.... feel free to suggest some.
What this Build gives:
Dex to Attack
2x Dex to Damage(CoC 2, and Shadow Blade feat... using Lightblade(Shortsword)
Str to Damage
Int to Damage
Wis to AC
Dex to AC
BAB +16
Attack bonus=BAB +16 +11 Dex +5 Enhancement +1 Haste -1 2 Wpn Fight= +32
Full Attack with 2 weapon Fighting Improved 2 weapon Fighting and Speed Weapon =
+32/+32/+27/+22/+17 and +32/+27 and 11 AoO @+32 Robilars Gambit
basically he gets 14 Attacks @ +32 and +27/+27/+22/+17 ... all doing Average +47 Damage each Hit .... if all hit he does 846 Damage/round..not too bad for a 2 Weapon Finnesse fighter who doesnt need Power Attack, and he heals 18d6 per round if all hit ..... this doesnt even take into consideration Martial Manuvers from Swordsage or Crusader
+35 to Damage without counting Weapon Enhancements or anything other than Attributes, total Weapon Damage= +35+ 5 enhancement +1d6 Vampiric +1d6 Weapon= Average +47 Damage each Hit
weapons:
212000gp(+/-)2 swords =
1) +1(+5 GMW) Keen Vampiric Speed with Vanishing Kaorti resin Elven Lightblade 1d6(15-20/x4)
2)+1(+5 GMW) Keen Vampiric Eager Transmuting with Vanishing Kaorti resin Elven Lightblade 1d6(15-20/x4)
200000gp +6 belt of magnificense
238770gp 9 points Inherent Bonuses(Wishes cast by 17th lvl Wiz)
10000gp Ring of Avoidance 3/day +20 Deflection AC 1 round
6000gp Ring of Anticipation
43200gp 2x Tooth of Dahlver Nar(Leraje.... cast greater magic weapon @20th Caster level... to give Each Sword +5 Enhancement, that lasts 20 hours)
8000gp Gloves of the Balanced Hand .... give Imp 2 Weapon Fighting
12000gp Boots of Speed
:D
Nice build, but not quite the right flavor. Your second build was more on target. There's things from each that would be beneficial though
I thought about the trapfinding variant Ranger when I was first doing this. The downside is I missed out on a lot of the other Rogue capabilities (sneak attack and open lock for example). So, if I were going to use it, it would be to qualify for a prc with trapfinidng as a prq. Of course, I wouldn't need sneak attack if my other attack abilities were awesome in the first place.
I've also considered: No Ranger, wilderness Rogue instead, but reswap a couple skills using Cityscape Handbook Web Enhancement. This gave me the best of both worlds by keeping the Rogue skill/ability set, but adding some survival type wilderness skills to my Rogue class skill list.
1) Primarily Divine build.
2) Divine/Arcane/Arcane Hierophant build.
3) Primarily Arcane build with Arcane trickster.
4) Mundane build.
Keep in mind that each build will use some mix and matching (like Rogue into the Divine build) to get better flavor and/or power.
So far, I probably won't go Mundane build, because way too many abilities are lost that this character flavor needs (basically magical travel/survivability/utility).
Divine build from what I've seen has some of the right flavors (travel devotion, travel/celerity domains, some spells), and nice power, but misses a lot of the crucial spells. Additionally Rogue/Ranger doesn't stack as well with Divine as it does with Arcane.
So, so far, I'm leaning option 2 or 3.
Arcane Hierophant build
or
Arcane build (like some solid one's presented in this thread so far).
########
ARCANE HIEROPHANT BUILD:
Positives:
Divine and Arcane flavoring including travel devotion, travel/planning/celerity domains. Most general utility Arcane spells. Other classes to add to flavor and power (such as Rogue). Access to a ton of spells from both branches. Some planar turning and other divine spells to affect evil outsiders, but low level.
Negatives:
Spread way too thin, and loses a lot of upward power in divine casting, arcane casting, rogue skills, sneak attack, and just about everything else. Probably a very "weak" character, but perfectly flavored.
_______________
ARCANE BUILD (with Arcane Trickster, etc.):
Positives:
Substantial upward Arcane power. Access to high level spells. Access to a ton of spells in general (specifically suited to this character). Nice Sneak attack. Nice mundane Rogue/Ranger type skills.
Negatives:
No divine at all (no travel devotion, no celerity/travel domain, no divine healing path, no low level planar turning).
What would the Arcane build use to access some of the more important Clerical spells that relate to this character's flavor.
I'm specifically thinking remove disease, remove curse, cure poison, possibly some healing.
Are there ways to do this with the Arcane build, without having to use magic items or dipping? I imagine scrolls/wands are a good option due to the skill set of this Arcane Trickster build.
What about variants/spells/feats that would accomplish this?
You're right about the Rogue skills, I wasn't thinking, but Sneak attack isn't a prerequisite, I'm rather sure.
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Search 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks,
Spellcraft 4 ranks, Spot 8 ranks.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells, including
at least two divination spells.
Quite right. But it is a prerequisite to benefit from the added d6 of sneak attack from Unseen Seer 1 which would then meet that requirement for Arcane Trickster, something he'd been seriously considering--and why it was stuck in my head.
Here's another side topic that relates to this character.
What would the Arcane build use to access some of the more important Clerical spells that relate to this character's flavor.
I'm specifically thinking remove disease, remove curse, cure poison, possibly some healing.
Are there ways to do this with the Arcane build, without having to use magic items or dipping? I imagine scrolls/wands are a good option due to the skill set of this Arcane Trickster build.
What about variants/spells/feats that would accomplish this?
I come from the "equipment isn't a build" faith, primarily because our games never assume the availability of magic items other than the most basic. I think what you're looking for is the Arcane Disciple feat. This gives you access to those domain spells:
Choose a deity, and then select a domain available to clerics
of that deity. You can learn to cast the spells associated with
that domain as arcane spells.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Spellcraft
4 ranks, able to cast arcane spells, alignment matches your
deity’s alignment.
Spells are based on wisdom, so you'll have to pump that up a bit in order to use them. If you DM allows you to pick and choose domains, it's just what the doctor ordered. One spell per domain per level. You can use the feat multiple times to take different domains, and can cast a spell from each at each level of spells.
[edit] another option to consider, depending upon your group, your world and your concept: collegiate wizard, which gets you six level 1 spells plus int bonus at first, then four per level after. If your guy is going to be a brilliant arcane college kid who breaks free of the grind of academia with a desperate urge to travel, then this could be for you.
I come from the "equipment isn't a build" faith, primarily because our games never assume the availability of magic items other than the most basic. I think what you're looking for is the Arcane Disciple feat. This gives you access to those domain spells:
Quote:
Choose a deity, and then select a domain available to clerics
of that deity. You can learn to cast the spells associated with
that domain as arcane spells.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Spellcraft
4 ranks, able to cast arcane spells, alignment matches your
deity’s alignment.
Spells are based on wisdom, so you'll have to pump that up a bit in order to use them. If you DM allows you to pick and choose domains, it's just what the doctor ordered. One spell per domain per level. You can use the feat multiple times to take different domains, and can cast a spell from each at each level of spells.
[edit] another option to consider, depending upon your group, your world and your concept: collegiate wizard, which gets you six level 1 spells plus int bonus at first, then four per level after. If your guy is going to be a brilliant arcane college kid who breaks free of the grind of academia with a desperate urge to travel, then this could be for you.
100% agreed about the equipment isn't a build. In my case, it's not due to the lack of magic items, but rather that the class shouldn't have to rely on them for their primary flavor (especially should they become demagicitemized). This is especially true of this type of character who specializes in getting into/out of. (I can't imagine a master of that who can't slip their own bonds, or sneak past guards on their own merit and having to rely on items to do so).
Arcane disciple feat = awesome!!!. That may single handedly eliminate the reason to take Divine in the mix, and may very well be the missing key I was looking for in this character's build. (It also works in my Rogue/Wiz/AT beguiler flavored build to get say trickery, planning, charm, travel/celerity domain(s)). No need to go Arcane Hierophant line if I take this instead. I imagine I could still consider 1 level dip into Cloistered Cleric if I wanted to get travel devotion, 1st level spells, and 2 domain granted powers (like added base speed from celerity/travel), and other Level 1 Cleric Abilities like basic planar turning variant & spontaneous healing. Once again, I think you stumbled onto something great here as far as this build is concerned.
Dieties/religon in the traditional DnD style aren't particularly prevalent in the current campaign (more worshiping of principals like nature, etc.), so it seems perfectly reasonable to allow the feat to be added, especially if it flavors your character more in the way he/she is already flavored. It'll just have to be limited in some way (as would limiting the number of domains available from a diety). Probably houserule something like limit 2 domains with unopposing alignments, no opposing flavors; or limit 3 domains of similar flavor (such as a diety would have), with no opposing alignment feel.
The only drawback will be the investment in Wisdom, but that's a small price to pay to avoid a whole progression down divine to get those few spells and flavors I'm after. In this case a Wis enhancing magic item would probably do the trick.
Collegiate wizard = another good one. I probably won't use it on this build (I may even go Sorcerer - but I hope not), because the character only needs certain types of spells per level, and because feat slots are thin on this guy. I don't want him to be a jack-of-all trades type caster. I do want him to have specific kinds of spells (based on his primary goals). However, that feat is an excellent addition to my True Necromancer/general all-purpose spellcaster build I'm working on, and a Witchy Druid/Wizard/Arcane Heirophant a friend is desigining. Nice!
That tatoo'd spellbook thing is another little trick that would work well for an AT type build like this one or my non-beguiler (beguiler flavored) AT build.
I think this was the final piece of the puzzle! Thanks so much.
Good luck with him. Sorcerer would be a good choice, but for the lack of access to abrupt jaunt, which requires specialization. Let us know how it works out!
Usually I stay away from Sorcerer. But in "flavored" cases where spontaneous casting helps (like the "non-beguiler" build, or this guy, I may use it as an option).
Most likely I'll go specialist Wizard though and take that abrupt jaunt or movement mode variant (depending on which direction I specialize into). Then I'll leave "utility" wizard slots open during the day, incase I need to fill them in on the fly (for particular challenges/types of missions/obstacles).
I'll likely post a bit more on this with some of the rough "final" build options I'm looking at.
Anyway, this one was a real bear to build (mostly due to that divine thing), but I've got a much better handle on it now.
Classes listed in rough general order
Build 1:
-Rogue 1 (probably variant like wilderness rogue, and substitute skills using Cityscape Web Enhancement)
-Spell Thief 1 or Thug Fighter 1 (for 2d6 sneak attack to qualify for AT) (possbily, but unlikely both to maximize sneak attack with 3d6 in 3 levels)
-Specialized Wizard (however many levels I need to gain AT) with variant to get abrupt jaunt or alternate move mode.
-Exotic Weapon Master 1 (as soon as I can qualify)
-AT the rest of the way.
-possible planar handbook prc dip
Feats (in no particular order): possibly practiced caster wizard. possible track &/or urban tracking. Arcane disciple. Ranged Threat. Other bow based feats. Flaws to gain more feats at 1st level. Great bow exotic weapon, or exotic weapon groups from UA variant. I'm sure I'm forgetting something like something to improve sneak attack. Possibly some skill based feats such as able learner, skill knowledge. Probable UA variant to swap scribe scroll. Probably
Armor spikes secondary, great bow primary weapon. Sword as third backup. Buckler. Mithral twilight armor, or something along those lines to wear medium as light, and reduce spell/ability negative modifiers. Later some magical enhancments (grafts) for flight/darkvision.
Race: not sure. I no longer need elf/half elf for the build. I might do an elf variant (high elf or something), whisper gnome, tiefling/half fiend, or something else. I'm going to look closely at substitution levels, ability score mods, with race I choose. Multi-classing xp penalties will dictate race too (gnome's probably out) (needs to be highest class excluded, or wizard as favored class). Definitely consider racial substitutions and other variants for Rogue/Ranger/Cleric/Wizard levels based on race.
Possible bloodlines from UA, but not likely. Flavor/abilities would help, but high price to pay when spell levels are lost.
This build has better spell progression, will have access to higher level spells, and maximizes sneak attack.
- - - - - - -
Build 2:
-Rogue 1 (probably variant like wilderness rogue, and substitute skills using Cityscape Web Enhancement)
-Spell Thief or Thug Fighter (for 2d6 sneak attack to qualify for AT) (possbily, but unlikely both to maximize sneak attack with 3d6 in 3 levels)
-Specialized Wizard (however many levels I need to gain AT) with variant to get abrupt jaunt or alternate move mode.
---possible Ranger 1 or 2 (for abilities, track, etc.)
-Probably Cloistered Cleric 1 (for abilities and domain granted powers, 1st lvl spells, planar turning variant, travel devotion, etc.)
-Exotic Weapon Master 1 (as soon as I can qualify)
-AT the rest of the way.
-possible planar handbook prc dip
-Race, feats, etc. similar to build 1.
This build gets armor spikes as a proficiency automatically.
This is the best flavored build I can come up with. The drawback is it loses a bit on sneak attack, and a decent amount of spell power at high levels - including access to high level spells (when compared to build 1). Taking the 1-2 level dip into ranger gives some nice bonus feats/abilities including track/favored enemy I'd otherwise have to take using feat slots. I also get travel devotion if I want it, which enhances this build quite a bit under certain circumstances (much like abrupt jaunt variation). Ranger may not be added, Cleric likely would.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Build 3:
Same as either of the above, but add 1 level of unseen seer instead of 1 level of AT. I haven't crunched the numbers yet, but it may actually add +1 sneak attack die if I take that instead of AT for a 1 level dip, without giving up spell progression, etc.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Lastly, the nice thing about these builds: Flavor right on. Power (melee/ranged/spells) pretty substantial. And no xp multiclassing penalties as long as you work it right. At first it seems like a thief build (which is not the goal), but it's about the only build path to do justice to a fully flavored magically enhanced survivor/traveler/get into & out of/bow user.
About the only other variation I'm seriously considering is sorcerer instead of Wizard, or adding unseen seer if it happens to work better at a specific level. (A 1 level dip might benefit sneak attack, and give some extra skill points).
- - - - - - - - - - -
Conclusion...
Right now, I'm likely aiming for option 2. I'll only take enough Cleric and/or Ranger so as to not majorly impact the spell progression too much. I think a 1 level dip may be worth the upward spell loss, when all things are included (spells, abilities, feats that are freed up, + FLAVOR, etc.)... I know, no one agrees with this. The mix of the first 5-8 levels will depend on what is needed to qualify for prc's/feats (such as EWM). EWM 1 dip removes AOO's against your bow, so now you can dump most of your resources into your bow and armor (and ability/spell enhancing magic items), instead of having to split it between your bow and your sword and your armor. You'll never have to switch out of bow in combat again. Of course anything that can be done to prevent sunder on your bow is crucial (better materials, etc.).
Overall, you will wind up with a solid spellcaster that trails straight builds (but not horribly), great rogue, great traveller/survivor, excellent sneak attack, probably 15' ranged sneak attack with ranged threat, the best melee bow user possible?, half-decent skill monkey, excellent overall archer build, an excellent tactical movement/magical escape artist. But... when you include the Wiz into the mix, suddenly your sneak attack becomes about the best it can be, your ranged bow becomes much better than mundane build, your thief abilities get much better than any straight rogue build, and your ranged wizard (ray, etc.) attacks get pretty potent when combined with bow feats and sneak attack. Plus the magic rounds out/enhances your skill set, making you a solid skill monkey overall.
I suppose this characters last substantial weakness is arrows do piercing damage. If the creature has immunity/substantial resistance to piercing, then you would switch to ray or other non blasting spells (instead of sword). ---- or just flee to fight again which this character will also excel at.
Any other improvements/fine tuning suggestions are welcome.
Some of the feats/variants would be similar, except the whole bow progression could be removed including Exotic Weapon Master, etc. Maybe go 2-weapon fighting, weapon finesse, or hand/light crossbow more. There's still benefit to taking ranged feats for that build, because AT can use ranged feats, rays, and sneak attack (w/greater invisibility) for substantial effect. Crossbow sniper for double range on precision attack? Metamagic and specialization into charm/illusion. Whisper Gnome? I might look into shadow dancer, but I don't think it's needed. Wizard specialist might be a different path.
Definitely 1 level dip into Unseen seer. This dip would not be instead of AT 1 level, but would be instead of Wizard for 1 level.
This way I increase Wiz level for AT qualify, AND add some Unseen Seer abilities, AND get better skill points to spread into Rogue abilities, AND add 1 extra level of precision (sneak attack) damage - all without losing spell progression.
Almost missed that one.
Edit:
Actually... more than likely I'll wind up going multiple levels of Unseen Seer instead of multiple levels of Wizard, because the Unseen Seer will help me to qualify for AT (once I've taken enough levels of Wiz to qualify for Unseen Seer).
My 10th level conjurer has 7 conjuration:teleportation spells in his book, and there are a number of them he's declined to get.
Something to consider for when sneak attacking isn't the best tactic--you have at your disposal a variety of battlefield control spells, not the least of which are your conjuration-teleportation spells such as benign and baleful transposition, dimension step and dimension shuffle. If you do find yourself up against something resistant to piercing, don't think like an evoker, think like a conjurer. Hit them with an orb if direct damage is what you need. Touch attack, no save, no SR, you can't really fail.
My 10th level conjurer has 7 conjuration:teleportation spells in his book, and there are a number of them he's declined to get.
Yes, absolutely. Lotsa neat tricks available with this build. The magical tactical movement part is one of the primary things that makes this build flavorful and fun/different to play.
One of the my original posts on this character (another thread) had some posters recommending a battlfield control Clerical build. The flavor didn't work out right for my taste. However, this build still has a lot of power in that area through the spells/bow/feats, etc..
On that topic though, does anyone know of a way to turn arrow piercing damage into another form (like slashing/bludgeoning), or overcome the piercing resistance entirely during a battle (using a spell/feat or something to remove the resistance, then firing your bow as normal)?
Also, this is a bit of an extention to that: If you fire an arrow that does say cold damage. And, you gain sneak attack on it due to the situation. If the enemy is immune/resistant to piercing, will all the other damage (sneak attack and cold) still apply, even though the weapon is piercing?
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1130794
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1133524