Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shoru May 07, 2009 16:27:25	Ok starting new 3.5 game soon, based in greek mythology, and I need some help making my character for the game. He will be a Mystic Theurge, who has a bad temper equal to that of his god (Hades). As such he tends to go from healing to blasting at a moments notice. I need help making this work right. What I would like suggestions on are Feats Domains Schools to give up Last four pre-epic levels (after taking last level of Mystic Theurge) Useful spells to have memorized Useful magic items to get Any other advice you have. Please try to keep uber-cheese to a minimum, while keeping the character effective. I do not mind the DMM feat, but could someone explain its ultra cheesyness? I've look over the feat and can't see where the brokenness is. Starting lvl 15 Human Specialist Wizard (Necromancy) 3/ Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 9 Banned schools are Enchantment / Illusion Stats are not rolled yet, so assume they are high enough for your needs Assume normal starting gold guidelines Books allowed: all completes are garunteed. Everything else is case-by-case basis, no dragon mag. Only allowed races are Centaur, Human, and Satyr. Centaur and Satyr are dumbed down from the MM so there is no LA or HD. I AM NOT GIVING UP EVOCATION. I know its unoptimized, but this character is going to have a little mailman in him. However, if you can keep equivalent direct damage in a build while still giving up Evocation, I will listen and weigh the options. Thank you for your time.
#2 sofawall May 07, 2009 16:57:11	Shadow Evocation is handy. Also, why pick Mystic Theurge over another dual-progression Prestige Class, perhaps Geomancer? You know, one that actually gains class abilities. Also, the cheesyness of DMM comes from: 1) You can persist, for example, a 9th level spell. You don't need to be able to cast it before reducing cost. 2) Nightsticks. Items giving turning attempts. Every personal spell in the PHB persisted every day? Sure!
#3 darth_versity May 07, 2009 17:19:11	Instead of Cleric as your Divine class you should consider taking Archivist (Heroes of Horror). They use INT as their casting stat and can learn and cast any divine spell, not just cleric ones. The only downside is they have to learn spells like a wizard, they don't just know all the spells of a given level like clerics. Another good choice is Sorcerer / Favoured Soul (complete divine) as they both use charasma, although it takes longer to get into Mystic Theurge as they each require 4 levels not 3. Finding class combos that use the same casting stat is very effective for dual progression casters as it allows you to put your other good stats in better places. Also, geomancer (complete divine) is a better dual spellcasting class as it has class features and lets you cast arcane spells in armor. If your set on using wizard and cleric then consider taking spellcasting prodigy (forgotten realms campaign setting) as your first feat to raise the effective ability score for the lower of your two stats. Practiced Spellcaster is another amazing feat to bring your caster level up to the same number as your HD. Brilliant for overcoming SR. The final levels before epic should be even between the two base classes or using another dual progression class.
#4 yoss May 07, 2009 18:32:20	At each geomancer level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefi t a character of that class would have gained(additional wild shape options, metamagic or item creation feats, or the like). Since the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a geomancer, the player must decide to which class to add each geomancer level for determining spells per day and spells known. I'm not seeing the dual progression like Mystic Theurge. Granted, they get abilities that help cross-breed their casting, but they only go up in one spellcasting class at a time. Geomancer could be great as the Mystic Theurge follow-on though.
#5 jameswilliamogle May 07, 2009 19:58:58	Some people translate Mystic Theurge as being a spellcasting class that one can advance with Geomancer et al. I don't agree, but that is one line of thought. Easiest and least abusive method to get fast progression into it is to use an Illumian Naenhoon with Heighten Spell and have a turn/rebuke class and another spellcasting class. Then they're just one level behind. Versatile Spellcaster with Heighten is also along the same lines for not being that bad. There's a whole Mystic Theurge handbook floating around here somewhere... if only there was a convenient place to look for some handy links for optimization work...
#6 shoru May 07, 2009 22:06:12	My current build is the one I think I'm going to go with, though Geomancer looks like a good class to go into after Mystic Theurge, since it doesn't progress spellcasting in two classes but does have good features. I did look over the Mystic Theurge handbook, and most of it was how to ab/use Mystic Theurge to get into different classes. Good and solid ideas for some feats in it though. I don't like the favoured soul/sorcerer combo, though you have a point with the fact they both use charisma. I don't want to gettbehind in spell levels that far. I don't have access to the Archivist, and I don't know if my DM has it, will check into it though. Same thing as the archivist for the spell casting prodigy. The completes and races of the dragon are what I personally have access to. Everything else is a see if the DM has it kind of thing.
#7 sofawall May 07, 2009 22:15:02	Arcane Heirophant is a fun class, you should check it out.
#8 hazren May 07, 2009 22:41:26	If you use one of the early entry feats to get into MT by 3rd level (I like Versital Spell caster) I would suggest Bard1/ Favored soul 1/ Sorcerer 1/ MT 7/ Fochlucan Lyrist to finish. A solid build that grants a mind numbing number of spells per day. The build focus is on one stat, Cha. You will only be two spell levels behind. The Build requires One magic ring, evasion, and that the character pick up Speak Druidic (One skill point) that should be shot by the DM to make sure he is cool with the build. If you are interested I can post an updated build that I used in a recent game.
#9 jgumbyrx May 07, 2009 23:02:46	... if only there was a convenient place to look for some handy links for optimization work... talk about opening-up a can of smart-a**
#10 darth_versity May 08, 2009 10:07:24	My current build is the one I think I'm going to go with, though Geomancer looks like a good class to go into after Mystic Theurge, since it doesn't progress spellcasting in two classes but does have good features. I did look over the Mystic Theurge handbook, and most of it was how to ab/use Mystic Theurge to get into different classes. Good and solid ideas for some feats in it though. I don't like the favoured soul/sorcerer combo, though you have a point with the fact they both use charisma. I don't want to gettbehind in spell levels that far. I don't have access to the Archivist, and I don't know if my DM has it, will check into it though. Same thing as the archivist for the spell casting prodigy. The completes and races of the dragon are what I personally have access to. Everything else is a see if the DM has it kind of thing. I understand what you mean about the Favoured Soul / Sorcerer build. When I made my first Mystic Theurge that was my plan, but the extra level required for each class was so annoying, thats why I found the Archivist. If you can get a copy of Heroes of Horror I would highly recommend it (their basically a Wizard with divine spells and a few class features) As for the spellcasting prodigy feat, you can find it on any website that lists the NWN2 feats, but i'll also post it here. Spellcasting Prodigy [General] You have an exceptional gift for magic. Benefit: For the purpose of determining bonus spells and the saving throw DCs of spells you cast, treat your primary spellcasting ability score (Charisma for bards and sorcerers, Wisdom for divine spellcasters, Intelligence for wizards) as 2 points higher than its actual value. If you have more than one spellcasting class, the bonus applies to only one of those classes. Special: You may only take this feat as a 1st-level character. If you take this feat more than once (for example, if you are a human or another type of creature that gets more than one feat at 1st level), it applies to a different spellcasting class each time. You can take this feat even if you don’t have any spellcasting classes yet. Its excellent for human Mystic theurges as they can get it twice at 1st level and apply it to both casting classes. It basically makes your casting stat (INT, WIS or CHA) act as two points higher for everything to do with your spells. Thus a character with 10 INT and this feat could take a level in wizard and cast a 1st level spell even though there normal INT isn't high enough. It also affects bonus spells and save DC's.
#11 dr_rocktopus May 08, 2009 12:04:00	I understand what you mean about the Favoured Soul / Sorcerer build. When I made my first Mystic Theurge that was my plan, but the extra level required for each class was so annoying, thats why I found the Archivist. If you can get a copy of Heroes of Horror I would highly recommend it (their basically a Wizard with divine spells and a few class features) That is understating the case tremendously. The archivist is monstrously powerful, it's up there with Artificers and Druids.
#12 darth_versity May 08, 2009 12:11:38	Just realised theres an even better way to get this prestiege class. You can take it at 5th level if you take wizard as your first class and take the Precocious Apprentice feat (complete arcane pg 181). It gives you a 2nd level spell at first level, which means you could quilify with only 1 wizard level. So Wizard 1 / Archivist 3 / Mystic Theurge 10 is possible. That means your divine casting is only behind 1 level and your arcane is the same as it would be for the original version. Hmm, now i've looked at that i'm going to build it and see if my DM will let me swap out my old character.
#13 shoru May 08, 2009 16:23:56	Thanks everyone for your advice and help. Ended up taking the previous build, with Practised Spellcaster and Spellcasting Prodigy for both cleric and Wizard. Ended up with a 25 equivalent intellegence and 20 equivalent Wisdom for spells, before magical items. I also took the Reach metamagic spell, with DMM and easy metamagic for it. Right now I can make a touch spell a 30ft ray 5/day, which is a much better use than trying to rebuke undead with only 3 lvls of cleric. Take that, sucker, 150 points of harm from 30ft away :D. I still get decent undead control from my domain spells and specialty spells, which allows me to wall enemies with undead and inflict/harm them from a distance. One more question though, with command undead, duration is 1day/level. So up until the day I have to start recasting command undead on the first thing under my control, I could gain (through use of create undead and command undead) another mummy/mohrg/whatever that listens to me as long as they don't make the save? And they don't count against the maximum number of undead I can control through animate dead?