My stats are 16 str,18 dex,12 con,15 int,13 wis and 12 chr(after elf changes)
I usually don't optimise too much my characters but this DM is infamous of the difficulty of his campains and the death ratio of his players,so i need your help to be as good as it gets to stand a fighting chance
Most of the books are allowed(not sure about tome of battle and the more exotic ones),no things froms sites and books for the bad guys(so no craven feat from champions of ruin;)
I know that this kind of builds work really good with the monk class(chermadine feat and striking kobra or passive way variants) but it doesn't fit the roleplaying(CN elf noble in self exile because his line of great warriors are now peace loving merchants) so I want to stay away from those (ofc it wouldn't hurt either,there is a chance to change characters after a while because 2 more players are interested to play in about a month)
After some search I decided that one of the following builds(20 lvls) suits the character and are quite good:
1st)swash 14/Fighter 1/Rogue 3/Champion of corellon(races from the wild) 2
The feats for this built are finesse(b),dodge,expertise,daring outlaw(from complete scoundrel rogue and swash lvls stuck for sneak,grace and dodge),mounted combat(fighter feat),Exotic(elven thinblade)(can be improved weapon familiarity if i convince the DM),TWF,improved TWF,greater TWF and improved disarm(CoC feat)
This build has 9d6 sneak and base saves:+15fort,+7reflex(gets boosted from my high dex though) and +8will
And gets the following s.abilities:Weakening critical(ok i guess but not So great),Acrobatic mastery(not so important),Grace +2,Dodge bonus +3,Corellons blesing(useless with my charisma) and elegant strike(dex to damage with some weapons really good as i'm aiming to top my dex stat)
2nd)fighter 2/rogue3/CoC 2/Ranger 3/wild runner(from races of the wild)/swash 8
The feats for this build are:Finesse(b),TWF(b),track(b),endurance(b),dodge expertise(fighter feat),mounted combat(fighter feat),imrovedTWF,greaterTWF,Exotic(thinblade),daring outlaw,mobility(CoC feat),Elusive target(Tactical from complete warrior) and travel devotion(from complete champion gives great mobility for tumble and sneak attack users)
This build has 6d6 sneak,3 hp dice are d6 instead of d10[ranger(elf variant from races of the wild) lvls] and base saves:+18fort,+11reflex and +7will
And has the following s.abilities:+2 grace,+2 dodge,C.blessing,elegant strike,favoured enemy(more powerfull because of the elven variant),wild empathy(not so good),fast movement(good synergy with tumble and travel devotion),trackless step.scent and primal scream(+2str and +6 dex for 3+con rounds usable 3+charisma times/day it has great synergy with elegant strike)
and lastly the 3rd)rogue 3/swash 17
the feats are finesse(b),TWF,daring outlaw,improved TWF,greater TWF,travel devotion and 2 others(i think the DM won't have any objections about changing dodge we played only for a couple of hours after making the players)
this build has 10d6 sneak and saves:+11fort,+8refl,+6 will
and s.abilities +3grace+4 dodge,slipery mind(with such lame will the reroll probably won't save me;) ),weakening critical
In all the builds instead of grace i use acrane stunt from complete mage(blur as first and i don't know the rest),and rogue variant that lets me sneak attack undead(with half the dices) and i lose trap sence
(btw if you know a variant that replaces wild empathy let me know)
Personally i prefer the second build the best because of its great synergy,better saves,more skills(elven variant rangers get 8/lvl) and out of combat utility(track) but loses some sneak and hps(in both cases i think the loss doesn't criple the build)
I know that the weak(but really WEAK)points of all the above builds are the low will and against an opponent immune to sneak i lose most of my efficiency but what can you do? i can't find it in me to make a wizard again :D
The following is kind of irrelevant but how can you take shadow blade if you aren't a swordsage?I understand that you take martial study to pick one of the spell-like maneuvers,then martial stance to get one shadow stance and then the shadow blade feat.I ask this because while i was looking some builds they took shadow hand with a single feat,were they wrong or i misunderstood something?
Thx in advance for helping me select one of those builds or for proposing some others if those aren't as good as i think and sorry for the long post
It's the simplest...
I'll throw my vote towards the third option.
It's the simplest...
Well its simpler but i'm conserned about this build's saves[in the previous campaing of this DM a party of 5 17lvl pcs died to a random orc village's gate guards(the guards turned out to be 21lvl clerics and both used power word: kill in the same round
)] so i need every single fort and will i can get.Also for a reason i don't understand the whole party think that daring outlaw is broken(in a world that spellcasters REALLY rule,in high lvls about half the monsters are immune to crit,so no sneak attack and i have to lvl up swashbukler and we all know the class isn't really good) so i don't want to have it as the only tool this character has[the DM might nerf it;) ,just for example because he dislikes elves he gave all the other players +2 to any stat they want(he said he did it because i was the only one with a starting 18,the fact that it cost me 2 constitution must have been overlooked;) ]
Can you swap your Str for your Int?
my str is 16 and my int 15(at 4th lvl it will be 16 too and the rest goes to dex) so i don't really understand what i would gain by swapping my str for my int,they'll be the same after 3 lvls
my str is 16 and my int 15(at 4th lvl it will be 16 too and the rest goes to dex) so i don't really understand what i would gain by swapping my str for my int,they'll be the same after 3 lvls
If you swap them, you can start upgrading your DEX as soon as possible. And TWF swashbucklers have more to gain from INT than STR since the former bonus gets added to your off-hand attacks while you only add half of the latter. You'd get a 1 point increase in your damage output and more skill points (which are helpful to your character archetype more than STR is).
Well its simpler but i'm conserned about this build's saves[in the previous campaing of this DM a party of 5 17lvl pcs died to a random orc village's gate guards(the guards turned out to be 21lvl clerics and both used power word: kill in the same round
No what you really needed in that specific instance were high ranks in diplomacy and sense motive.
Now if you do want to focus on saves, a quick dip into monk will provide a nice boost (and a chance to pick up int towards ac).
You use a rapier, your first level is in ranger and you get weapon finesse. Then you go scout. Then you make something called a swift hunter.
You will be dual wielding light weapons from ranger, you have weapon finesse and you will do a **** ton of damage from skirmish.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=854152
Almost in every way better than swashbuckler. They make better swashbuckler's than swashbucklers.
Almost in every way better than swashbuckler. They make better swashbuckler's than swashbucklers.
I don't know about that. It really depends on what type of 'swashbuckler' is desired.
I don't know about that. It really depends on what type of 'swashbuckler' is desired.
+1 to darksamuari.
My Daring Outlaw build of choice is Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16, btw.
+1 to darksamuari.
My Daring Outlaw build of choice is Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16, btw.
What feats did you have in this build? While there are a lot of feats i'd like to have i can't think of which ones are must have(ofc except daring outlaw,TWF feats and maybe travel devotion) and i forgot about uncanny dodge so 16swash/4rogue is better than 17swash/3rogue
I didn't give the scout class much credit but this thread about the swift hunter was enlightening.They are really good but i prefer much better the ranged variant than the meele one,so it doesn't suit the purposes of this character.
So far it seems the 3rd build(swash/rogue without CoC) is more favored by you guys[i understand this is because of the CoC is kind of feat intensive(and the feats it requires aren't good,especially mounted combat is useless for my built) and although dex to damage is a really nice damage buff(+9dam to each attack at 20lvl with gloves of dex+6) my main damage source is sneak],am i correct?
Now that i'm watching it again i found that the CoC elegant strike works only with:longsword, rapier, elven thinblade, elven lightblade,scimitar and elven courtblade.This means that the only light weapon is elven lightblade and in the case my dm doesn't accept improved weapon familiarity instead of exotic(thinblade) i have to take another feat to apply my dex dam to my offhand attack.
Now that i'm watching it again i found that the CoC elegant strike works only with:longsword, rapier, elven thinblade, elven lightblade,scimitar and elven courtblade.This means that the only light weapon is elven lightblade and in the case my dm doesn't accept improved weapon familiarity instead of exotic(thinblade) i have to take another feat to apply my dex dam to my offhand attack.
...or you could take a level of Dervish.