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| #1jaradajAug 04, 2011 7:44:46 | I have a dilemma i'm hoping to get some help with. My experience with d&d 3.5 is very limited and i've been strong armed into a sword and board fighter roll. I'm trying to create a build that can hold it's own given the large limitations presented and i thought i'd need some help with it. List of acceptable sources; -phb -phb2 -expanded psionics -complete adventurer -complete arcane -complete champion -complete mage -complete scoundrel -complete psionic -complete warrior -pathfinder core rule book -pathfinder advanced players guild Ask first sources; -heroes of battle -heroes of horror -dragon magazine -races of destiny -races of stone -races of wild -frostburn -sandstorm -stormwrach -miniatures handbook -defenders of the faith -masters of the wild -song and silence -sword and fist Everything else is banned Home brewed feats; SHIELD PUSH [GENERAL] You can push opponents back by bashing them with your shield. Prerequisites: Power Attack, Shield Proficiency. Benefit: Any shield bash you make with a small or large shield also affects your opponent as if you had performed a bull rush, making an opposed strength check with size modifiers as normal. You don't actually move into your opponent's square or incur attacks of opportunity for the bash. You also can't move your opponent back more than 5 feet, nor can you move along with the defender. An opponent moved by this attack does not suffer attacks of opportunity from the movement. You can't use this feat with a buckler. If you have the Improved Bull Rush Feat, you gain a +4 bonus to the opposed Strength Check. Special: A fighter may select Shield Push as one of his fighter bonus feats. Credit: Originally appeared in Defenders of the Faith (© Wizards of the Coast, 2000) as Improved Shield Bash™ and also in the Miniatures Handbook(© Wizards of the Coast, 2003) as Pushback™ with slightly altered effects. SHIELD CHARGE [GENERAL] You are adept at knocking your opponents over if you use your shield as a weapon when charging. Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, base attack bonus +3. Benefit: If you hit an opponent with your shield as part of a charge action, in addition to dealing damage normally, you may make a trip attack without provoking an attack of opportunity. If you lose, the defender does not get to try to trip you in return. In addition, a shield charge using both hands gains the normal 1.5X strength bonus to the damage caused by the shield. If the shield as a secondary attack in an off hand, it still gains the normal strength bonus to damage (rather than 1/2 the strength bonus normally gained by an off hand attack). Special: A fighter may select Shield Charge as one of his fighter bonus feats. Credit: Reworked from the original Feat found in the Complete Warrior (© Wizards of the Coast, 2003) for clarification. Here's what i was planning on making; lvl 1 -improved shield bash -improved trip -combat expertise lvl2 -knock down (changing this shield specialization) lvl3 -shield charge lvl4 -power attack lvl5---------------------------------------- lvl6 -improved bull rush -shock trooper (perhaps elusive attack, if so move everything down one from here) lvl7---------------------------------------- lvl8 -shield slam lvl9 -shield sling lvl10-combat reflexes lvl11-shield ward lvl12-leap attack (maybe counterattack, if so move everything down one from here) -active shield defense lvl13------------------------------------- lvl14-dodge (gaining mobility from armor enchant) lvl15-elusive target lvl16-curling wave strike (maybe over powering attack) lvl17------------------------------------ lvl18-sidestep lvl19------------------------------------ lvl20-powerful charge My dm is allowing the shield to be used as a 2handed weapon so i can gain the 1.5xstr increase of damage. I plan on having a sheath added to the shield for a 1h weapon to be drawn as a free action if need be. If so, i might switch to agile shield fighter feat and trade it in somewhere. Maybe get hold the line. Can i do a charge attack as my full round single attack action using over powering attack for the double damage, then gain the bonus to AC from elusive attack and still use counter attack? I mean do those 3 attacks stack? My idea for combat was to charge in, stunning and auto tripping the enemy i hit. Now i dont' know what i can do to make this better aisde from picking up a better weapon, which i can not. I bout walked away when i found out that i had to play this character since it's not what i wanted, but i refuse to quit without a fight. |
| #2Tempest_StormwindAug 04, 2011 12:52:41 | Wow, he allows Sword And Fist but not the Tome of Battle? Sword and Fist was the first ever 3e expansion book published and much of it was written without a good understanding of the rules (i.e. the first prestige class presented there, the Cavalier, had as its first ability "Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty): The cavalier has this skill for free without having to purchase it with skill points." Notice anything wrong with that?), while the Tome of Battle was one of the last 3.5 books published and not only shores up many of melee's problems (including the weakness of sword and board!) but managed to do so with rather impeccable balance most of the time? (Seriously - your "idea for combat" is all that your character can do, after investing that many feats in it: this is the quintessential core melee problem (you're still charging and full attacking at every level, with one or two other tricks if you invest all your feats into making them effective). You have fewer options available to you than a low-level warblade. Combat will be boring.) The same goes for the other 3e splats he included and even parts of the Miniatures Handbook. I seriously question your GM's judgement. That said, why are you sticking to Fighter 20? Any particular reason? 1) Charge is a full round action. Overpowering Attack is a separate full round action. You can no more combine these two than you can combine Manyshot and Rapid Shot (they're different actions). 2) If you want to 'auto trip' and have access to Sword and Fist, you also have access to Knock-Down, which is a ridiculously mean feat with two-handed weapons (which your DM has said your shield is). There's a reason that feat wasn't reprinted in a 3.5 source. (It shows up in the 3.5 SRD by virtue of appearing in the 3e-and-then-OGL sections of Deities and Demigods.) You should definitely consider keeping it. 3) The most interesting part of your request is the 2h shield ruling. Normally shields are forced into one of three separate roles: Improved Buckler Defense with a two-handed weapon, an animated shield with a two-handed weapon, or spiked and used as an off-hand defensive weapon. Your houserule is one of the more interesting ones. It's also not all upside: Throwing a two-handed weapon is another full-round action, so unless Shield Sling changes that, you might want to consider dropping that feat. 4) You have a pretty solid ubercharge route going in there, but you're only setting it up as a single attack, which cuts out a lot of the damage you could be doing if you're focusing on that route. Similarly, you have Combat Reflexes, but no reach. (Note that if you drop Shield Sling you can pick up Exotic Weapon: Kusari-Gama, which is described in the DMG. It's a light weapon that acts in all ways like a spiked chain you hold in one hand. It's not two-handed so you may have problems tripping with it, but it does grant you reach, which is significant.) 5) Considering your emphasis on tripping, why aren't you playing a half-giant (XPH) or goliath (RoS)? They have Powerful Build, which gives you a surprising amount of oomph on trippers. Similarly, if you get RoS allowed, both of them qualify for Knockback, which lets any regular Power Attack hit Bull Rush the target, which has interesting synergy with Shock Trooper. It's usually combined with the Dungeon Crasher variant, but you don't have Dungeonscape available.) The only drawback is the level adjustment - not insignificant, but since you're not playing a spellcaster, not insurmountable either. |
| #3jaradajAug 04, 2011 13:16:34 | Wow, he allows Sword And Fist but not the Tome of Battle? Sword and Fist was the first ever 3e expansion book published and much of it was written without a good understanding of the rules (i.e. the first prestige class presented there, the Cavalier, had as its first ability "Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty): The cavalier has this skill for free without having to purchase it with skill points." Notice anything wrong with that?), while the Tome of Battle was one of the last 3.5 books published and not only shores up many of melee's problems (including the weakness of sword and board!) but managed to do so with rather impeccable balance most of the time? (Seriously - your "idea for combat" is all that your character can do, after investing that many feats in it: this is the quintessential core melee problem (you're still charging and full attacking at every level, with one or two other tricks if you invest all your feats into making them effective). You have fewer options available to you than a low-level warblade. Combat will be boring.) The same goes for the other 3e splats he included and even parts of the Miniatures Handbook. I seriously question your GM's judgement. This is exactly the type of info i've wanted. Yea, my dm is out to get me.... i'm pretty sure i pissed him off by asking too many questions (this is my first d&d game). So now i'm in the situation i'm in. Already at lvl 3 and only still at it since i feel this is an unspoken challenge and i'm too stubborn to admit defeat. I'm sticking to fighter for the feats, but i'm open to anything. I already tried to be something other than human, but my dm will not allow anything that is large or higher. So knock back is out, same as those races. In truth i'm surprised he said ok to knockdown (sword and fist edition, with errata). Hmm, i thought overwhelming attack could be combined with the charge attack for more damage. Maybe it's another feat i was thinking bout. How bout elusive attack with the charge or counter attack. Are all those a seperate full round action as well? I will keep knockdown then, i can see the synergy if i can get an AC high enough and use counter attack. Shield sling was something thrown in there, mainly to stop runners or buy a party member some time should i end up too far from them and can't reach an enemy attacking them. It's not that important to me and i can trade it for something better I was thinking agile shield fighter and ewp for the kasurigama for sure. Place it in a shield sheath for the free action to draw it and i can still attack with my shield as a 2h for damage (as sad as that is). I was told that twf is more for classes that can suppliment their damage with sneak attack dice or such. Which is why i was just using the full round charge actions and attacks. Yea i tried getting dungeon crasher varient but my dm thinks it's over powered. I was hoping there was some synergy with pushback and bullrush since i couldn't get knock back, but my dm says pushback is over powered too and instead made shield push feat ubove. I'm afraid of using it cause if i shield bash and knock an enemy away from me i've lost my range for a follow up attack(unles i go with the kasurigama) and they could take a 5 foot step and just charge me on their turn. Which i could stop with hold the line. Could drop shield sling, powerful charge, and sidestep and get hold the line, ewp kasurigama and agile shield fighter..... |
| #4UnahimAug 04, 2011 16:15:33 | I have no insight to offer on Fighters, but I just wanted to throw it out there that your DM sounds like a bit of a dick, seriously. How long has he been playing D&D? Long enough to know Fighters tend to get overclassed later on, and Sword'n Board fighters even faster if not very well optimized?(though his questionable list of allowed books/house rule feats help.) |
| #5jaradajAug 04, 2011 18:47:05 | I have no insight to offer on Fighters, but I just wanted to throw it out there that your DM sounds like a bit of a dick, seriously. How long has he been playing D&D? Long enough to know Fighters tend to get overclassed later on, and Sword'n Board fighters even faster if not very well optimized?(though his questionable list of allowed books/house rule feats help.) I think so too. I don't know how long he has played but i figure i'll play till it's no fun then i'm out. As for the question on elusive/counter/overwhelming attack, here's what he had to say; The way it is written it sounds mutually exclusive but the elusive |
| #6Slagger_the_ChuulAug 05, 2011 8:32:21 | You could consider psychic warrior as an alternative to fighter, but it depends on how comfortable you are with the rules involved. |
| #7jaradajAug 06, 2011 7:13:08 | So i've determined that it would be best to pick up 1 level of barbarian (lion spirit from complete champion) for the pounce ability. Then i'll go into psychic warrior. My question is at what level (after lvl 2) should i pick up barbarian and then psychic warrior? fighter 2->barb1->psychic warrior17 or fighter 3->barb1->psychic warrior16 or fighter 4->barb1->psychic warrior 15 |
| #8Slagger_the_ChuulAug 06, 2011 14:10:48 | So i've determined that it would be best to pick up 1 level of barbarian (lion spirit from complete champion) for the pounce ability. Then i'll go into psychic warrior. My question is at what level (after lvl 2) should i pick up barbarian and then psychic warrior? Go for 17 levels of psychic warrior 17. Not only do you avoid any "dead" levels of fighter where you don't get a feat, but keeping barbarian and fighter within one level of each other means you won't suffer multiclass XP penalties (since you ignore your highest class, psychic warrior, by being a human). Getting 6th-level psychic warrior powers in the build is, of course, an obvious benefit. ![]() |
| #9jaradajAug 06, 2011 21:19:42 | Sounds great. I'll go for the first build with 17 levels of psychic warrior. I'll be concentrating on increasing charge damage with my 2h use of shield. So expansion and psionic weapon, shield spikes and whatever mic items I can find that will increase my damage by a size. Any opinions on must have psionic related feats? Oh and we dont have Xp penalties. I suppose he doesnt think will be multiclassing a lot. He mentioned we won't have to worry out training till after lvl4 or 5. Then if we want to go into another class we would have to find someone to train us, I guess. |
| #10aelryinthAug 07, 2011 16:41:40 | Then by all means get all your multi-classing in by level 4 or 5! I'm sure Tempest has a link to some good psychic warrior builds around that aren't too fancy for a starter. He's probably the expert on the boards regarding psy builds. ==Aelryinth |
| #11Tempest_StormwindAug 08, 2011 12:15:51 | Here's the compendium, including a few shield-users (albeit drawn from multiple sources; the second uses Lords of Madness' Sanctified Mind, for instance), and here's the handbook. For psionics in general, here's the FAQ. The New DM/Player's Guide to Psionics we had a while ago got eaten by the Internets, but I have a local copy on my home computer that I'll upload later. The usual Psywar build for shields (i.e. ignoring all race considerations or houserules) looks something like this. Note that I think it's actually a bit boring, but it has some surprises up its sleeves: 1 Shield Specialization, Improved Shield Bash 2 Shield Ward 3 Agile Shield Fighter 4 5 Shield Charge 6 Shielded Manifesting 7 8 Shield Slam 9 Earth Sense 10 11 Earth Power 12 Linked Power 13 Psionic Meditation 14 15 Expanded Knowledge (Schism), Metapower (Linked Power: Expansion) (The later feats are all 'to taste' and can be used to expand into new directions late-game, or to tap into the PHB2's higher-level shield feats a bit more at the cost of your already-solid manifesting.) In general for psychic warriors, the 'required' powers are Expansion, Hustle, and a teleport power of your choice (Dimension Hop (CPsi) is my favorite but costs you a feat; alternatives include Dimension Slide (XPH) and Inconstant Location (CPsi)). The others are all open to you, although I'd suggest Strength of My Enemy (as a debuff), Defensive Precognition (for the save bonus), Damp Power (lets you defend your entire team), Detect Hostile Intent (probably the best sense power in the game, and uniquely psionic), Steadfast Perception (an amazing power for its level, essentially a miniature True Seeing), and Dispelling Buffer (allows you to be less paranoid about all your buffs). Note that it's perfectly fine to pick a lower-level psionic power when you learn a new power - most can augment to whatever strength you need. Pulling from that should give you a good idea of how shielded psywars should fight. You can splice that into your tripping build without too much trouble. The signature feats are probably Shielded Manifesting (not an ideal choice, since you want a respectable Concentration score anyway, but a useful one nevertheless), Earth Power (psychic warriors are somewhat low on power points and require a bit of practice to learn how to pace themselves; this feat helps their stamina a lot), and the required powers. In your case, Expansion may provide you with enough reach to avoid using the kusari-gama altogether (it really didn't synergize with your build otherwise), but you may want to pick up Practiced Manifester (Psychic Warrior) to make up for the 2 or 3 lost levels at the start (depending on whether or not you take Barbarian - remember that Rage is just once per day, and you can probably outdo it with Strength of My Enemy (+ pounce) and Vigor (although the usual ZOMGVigor combo will be unavailable to you without some feat investments)). Practiced Manifester also (apparently) gives you bonus power points - the formula for those is Wisdom modifier * 1/2 * your manifester level, and PM raises that last one - but it was never entirely clear if it should. (Really, the mechanics between psionics and magic were different enough that WotC SHOULD have known to use different templating on that feat... but since Practiced Spellcaster gives you free scaling, having Practiced Manifester give extra PP to allow for psionics to actually scale a bit as well wouldn't be out of the question). Show The Vigor combo I mentioned? Use Psicrystal Affinity to get a psicrystal. Manifest Share Pain on it directly, transferring half of your damage to the psicrystal. Use the Share Powers ability to manifest Vigor, granting both of you temporary hit points as long as the psicrystal remains within reach (i.e. you keep it in your pocket). Let's say you manifest Share Pain (3pp) and then use Vigor for, oh, let's say 3pp as well (meaning the power costs are equivalent to two second-level spells); this is not too difficult to afford at level 7 (the earliest you can be as a pure psywar to get this trick). You and your psicrystal both now have 15 temporary hit points. Let's say you take a critical hit to the face for an incredible 50 damage (let's face it, that doesn't exactly tickle at level 7; a psywar with 14 Con averages 49 HP at that level!). Normally you'd probably go unconscious and have to save vs massive damage. But not you - half the damage is instantly shunted to your psicrystal, which benefits from hardness (which is better than damage reduction since it applies against magic damage unless the magic damage says otherwise - empathic damage does not bypass hardness!). This means that you take 25 damage, 15 of which is absorbed by the temporary hit points, while the psicrystal takes 25-8=17 damage, 15 of which is absorbed by the temporary hit points. That 50-damage strike knocked you back just 10 hit points, and your psicrystal took 2 hit points of permanent damage for you. Pretty impressive defense, no? Be advised, though: It doesn't synergize well with shields. Shield-users are meant to avoid getting hit in the first place, whereas this trick causes you to get hit and just shrug it off. Still, if you have room, definitely consider it! The psicrystal is far more useful than just a damage sink, although most of its utility isn't evident in combat. |
| #12jaradajAug 08, 2011 22:29:25 | Thanks so much for your help. The info and links you have provided have really help me since I had no idea where to begin. I've asked 5 other forums for help in this subject and this is the only place vie gotten straight answers. I was reading through the psychic warriors handbook and I came to the conclusion that I should play something fun. Since this is my first time playing d&d I want to make sure I don't get the wrong impression bout the game by playing a limited fighter be causes of a limited dm.I was thinking of the grappling build in the handbook as sort of a pacifist monkish type character that, if pushed, can turn lethal. Do you think this would break the boring routine that you had mentioned bout my earlier character in combat? I spoke with my dm and he said I could start a new character at one level lower than my last if I wanted to. The party consists of a scout, ear Mage, 2h paladin, and a cleric. I'm intrigued by u common characters so a psionic grappler would be cool, or the small guy that carries a HUGE weapon and grows large when angered. As for the s/b character build, I'm trying to merge the 2h pw build with the tactical shield build since my dm will let me use shield as a 2h weapon. I like the pounce ability from barb only cause I don't to have to spent pp with lions charge all the, also since I'll have little in terms of pp for a while. Ultimately I'll be doing the typical charge then full attack, but I'm hoping the psionic powers will be giving me the variety I'll be missing. |
| #13jaradajAug 09, 2011 14:15:12 | This is what i got so far. I figured i would drop improv bull rush/shocktrooper combo and let my trips and stuns from shield slam/shield charge be the control. I'm still not entirely understanding the Expanded Knowledge (Schism) and Metapower (Linked Power: Expansion). I'm starting to look closer at the psionic builds for a 2nd "backup" character incase this goes to poop [spoiler] Lvl 1 fighter1 -combat expertise -improved trip -improved shield bash Lvl2 fighter2 -knockdown Lvl3 barb1 -pounce ability (lion spirit totem) -rage 1/day Lvl4 pw1 -linked power Lvl5 pw2 -earth sense Lvl6 pw3 -earth power Lvl7 pw4-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl8 pw5 -psionic meditation Lvl9 pw6 -leap attack Lvl10 pw7-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl11 pw8 -shield spec Lvl12 pw9 - earth sense Lvl13 pw10-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl14 pw11 -shield ward Lvl15 pw12 -shield slam Lvl16 pw13-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl17 pw14 -curling wave strike Lvl18 pw15 - Lvl19 pw16-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl20 pw17
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| #14Tempest_StormwindAug 09, 2011 16:21:38 | This is what i got so far. I figured i would drop improv bull rush/shocktrooper combo and let my trips and stuns from shield slam/shield charge be the control. I'm still not entirely understanding the Expanded Knowledge (Schism) and Metapower (Linked Power: Expansion). Both of those are advanced options, so I'll sblock them. They're not important unless you're quite familiar with the capabilities of the character (i.e. you've played through him for several levels and understand what's required for proper psywar timing and pacing). Show EK: Schism adds Schism to your powers known. Schism, once manifest, gives you a second mental standard action every turn, although any powers it manifests are at -6 ML. What this fundamentally means is that you can spend a single standard action at the start of the battle, and then continue to fight normally. On your turn, the secondary mind manifests your buffs for you without you having to stop fighting. They're at a lower ML, so they're not as powerful and more easily dispelled... but they also cost you fewer power points. And frequently, the difference between having an effect and not having an effect is greater than the difference between having the effect and augmenting the effect. (For instance, once you have Strength of My Enemy up, it makes a huge difference. The difference you gain by having an augmented SoME on top of that is lower, though, so you don't need to augment it all that much - i.e. the -6 ML schism mind is enough to keep you in pretty damn good fighting form.) The gain in speed while you buff more than makes up for the slightly weaker buffs. Linked Power works the same way. It lets you "piggyback" one power on another power - you basically pay for both powers at the same time, and one appears on the following round without taking up any actions on your part. It's actually a really abusable feat in general since the second power immediately manifests, regardless of its manifestation time (some people use it to get Minor Creation in one round instead of one minute, for instance). Here, though, it's used to trigger your other buffs faster - and that's generally a good thing, since psychic warriors have little use for metapsionics in most cases. Since you'll always be manifesting Expansion in nearly every fight, this lets you spend the action to manifest Expansion (which can be a swift action, remember) and then Link it to whatever other buff is necessary in that fight. Due to Metapower, though, you pay for Expansion and the other power, -2. This means that you can augment the other power just a little further, or augment Expansion just a little further, depending on your level. Since you're only manifesting one metapsionic power, you don't need to push yourself for other psionic foci; if you're a focus-heavy psychic warrior, you already have other means of getting around the psionic focus cost. Bottom line: Both abilities increase the amount of time you spend attacking, and speed up your buff time. Psychic warriors are really heavy on the buffs, but every round they spend buffing is a round they don't spend attacking. (This has led to numerous Dragon Ball Z jokes over the years, although thanks to tricks like these the psywar is not the worst in the game for this.) |
| #15jaradajAug 10, 2011 10:07:18 | i think i'm getting it. Here's the build so far. I'm trying to figure out the movement power and where i'd fit it in, so i left the last feat open so i can move stuff around to fit once i pick it. The way i'm looking at it now, combat will be -expansion and str of my enemies (or whatever i need for the fight) linked together -charge with leap attack getting the extra damage, stun, and trip attempt -once in the thick of things i will be doing the typical (if i haven't already been doing that) 2h shield bashes or bull rushes to make some room for another charge, manifesting power as i need behind the safety if shield manifesting. I like to think of this character as a normal size person until combat when i become large chargin shield with spikes large enough to impale a few men. Now will i really need improve bull rush/shock trooper? if i get dimensional hop and use that to get to charge positions, or the stun and trip from my shield slam/charge for control i could just replace those 2 feats with something reactive like dodge-elusive target (mobility from enchantment) or combat reflexes-hold the line for anti charge and aoo? [spoiler] Lvl 1 fighter1 -combat expertise -improved trip -improved shield bash Lvl2 fighter2 -knockdown Lvl3 barb1 -shield charge -pounce ability (lion spirit totem) -rage 1/day Lvl4 pw1 -shield slam Lvl5 pw2 -shield spec Lvl6 pw3 -shield ward Lvl7 pw4-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl8 pw5 -power attack Lvl9 pw6 -leap attack Lvl10 pw7-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl11 pw8 -practiced manifester Lvl12 pw9 -shield manifesting Lvl13 pw10-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl14 pw11 -improve bull rush Lvl15 pw12 -shock trooper Lvl16 pw13-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl17 pw14 -expanded knowledge (Schism) Lvl18 pw15 -linked power (expansion) Lvl19 pw16-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl20 pw17 - ~undecided~ |
| #16Tempest_StormwindAug 10, 2011 11:55:15 | The way i'm looking at it now, combat will be Shielded Manifesting is not always as good as it seems. It depends entirely on how many points you're putting in Concentration. If you can reliably reach DC 15 + power level*, you can manifest on the defensive without a hassle. For psywars with a stronger focus on psionic feats, shielded manifesting isn't all that hot. For psywars with a shield and not many skill points, it can help. *Augmenting and metapsionics change the cost, but not the actual level of the power. This is one of the areas where psionics have an advantage over magic - a fully-augmented and metapsioniced buff like the one you're describing above is just a level 1 power and is DC 16. If you're using Link Power, please read the metapsionic rules carefully. Psionic focus is the chief among these. Likewise, Link Power itself doesn't need to have a power chosen when you pick it (that's only the metapower feat). I like to think of this character as a normal size person until combat when i become large chargin shield with spikes large enough to impale a few men. Now will i really need improve bull rush/shock trooper? if i get dimensional hop and use that to get to charge positions, or the stun and trip from my shield slam/charge for control i could just replace those 2 feats with something reactive like dodge-elusive target (mobility from enchantment) or combat reflexes-hold the line for anti charge and aoo? Improved Bull Rush gives you two advantages: no AoOs if you do a normal bull rush (which is interesting because it doesn't rely on attack rolls - keep that in mind) and a +4 bonus on your Strength check that stacks with size increases (which, as a Strength check, is harder to boost to the same levels as, say, an attack roll). It's generally only "nice" unless you're doing Dungeon Crasher (a fighter variant specialized in bull rushes and breaking things; they can be quite mean with Powerful Build races). The main reason I even mentioned it is that it leads you to Shock Trooper, which is a key lynchpin in the typical ubercharger. The fact that IBR actually improves your shield slams is a side effect. Shock Trooper's main advantage is Heedless Charge. You can dump all your attack bonus into Power Attack (which is multiplied by some ridiculous numbers thanks to Leap Attack and your two-handedness), but shift the penalty to your AC (which is higher due to your shield anyway). You are therefore getting all of the offensive "bang" of Power Attack with none of the offensive "buck" - your attacks are as accurate as a normal charge, but as damaging as a strong Power Attack. The fact that it provides extra options on bull rushes (which you sometimes get for free with your DM's shield feats) is just gravy. Elusive Target is good, but feat intensive. You're trying to do five things here: shield expertise, ubercharge, manifest buffs, elusive target, and trip/bullrush. I think you should only focus on three of these. (Note that you get tripping and bull rushing "for free" as a consequence of your shield feats and your ubercharge feats, respectively.) Decide if you want it, and if you do then trade it in for one of the other things. Personally, I'd take shield expertise (the theme of your character), ubercharging (damage output is expected on warriors, and it's fun), and buffing (to grant you options). However, depending on your Dexterity (which drops with Expansion, so be careful!), I would certainly suggest Combat Reflexes. While Hold the Line is useful, it is situational, and thus not as good as more universal area control feats. A better choice for you would be Stand Still (XPH). You'll keep some of your insane Power Attack bonuses from the earlier charge you made, and you've Expanded to have a large threatened area. Stand Still means that anyone trying to approach you will not be able to slip past (protecting your team) and also won't be able to retreat (opening up for you to give them a stern talking-to on the following round).
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| #17jaradajAug 10, 2011 16:21:54 | here's another shot at it; stats are (with items) str 18 dex 14 con 14 int 13 wis 12 char 10 i'll have to place the first skill point from lvl 4 in wis. And i'll get a torc of power preservation if/when i can, although i don't know which will be accessable till sunday. [spoiler] Lvl 1 fighter1 -combat expertise -improved trip -improved shield bash Lvl2 fighter2 -knockdown Lvl3 barb1 -shield charge -pounce ability (lion spirit totem) -rage 1/day Lvl4 pw1 -shield slam Lvl5 pw2 -mantled warrior Lvl6 pw3 -leap attack Lvl7 pw4-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl8 pw5 -power attack Lvl9 pw6 -shield spec Lvl10 pw7-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl11 pw8 -shield ward Lvl12 pw9 -improve bull rush Lvl13 pw10-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl14 pw11 -shock trooper Lvl15 pw12 -linked power Lvl16 pw13-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl17 pw14 -stand still Lvl18 pw15 -expanded knowledge (Schism) Lvl19 pw16-------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl20 pw17 -psionic weapon (undecided as of yet) |
| #18Tempest_StormwindAug 10, 2011 17:40:03 | Leap Attack requires Power Attack. Swap them and it should work. Also, what are your powers? Those, as much as your feats, will define your psychic warrior progression. Likewise, what mantle are you taking with Mantled Warrior (and is its ability and the expanded power list really worth a feat for you, since you need so many? It very well could be. I'd suggest Freedom - its ability is not only very, very good (it makes up for the loss of barbarian Fast Movement for the lion totem pounce, and it also gives you a poor man's freedom of movement for free), and it gives you access to Dimension Hop. The usual warrior-style mantles - Conflict, Physical Power, and so on - tend to have a lot of overlap with the psychic warrior power list anyway.) Other than that, it looks pretty good - probably as good as it can be given your circumstances and goals. Powers are the logical next step. (I usually suggest choosing them in tandem.) |
| #19jaradajAug 10, 2011 18:18:47 | I was going to go for freedom mantle. Dimensional hop looks like too much fun. Here's what i'm looking at for powers, not in order of obtainment. There's still some i'm not sure of; 17 powers total level 1 -defensive precognition -expansion -metaphysical weapon level 2 -detect hostile intent -damp power -hustle level 3 -Strength of my Enemy -mental barrier -Prowess level 4 -Energy Adaptation -Steadfast Perception -Inertial Barrier level 5 -empower weapon - - level 6 -Dispelling Buffer -personal mind blank |
| #20Tempest_StormwindAug 10, 2011 18:41:01 | I was going to go for freedom mantle. Dimensional hop looks like too much fun. You still need to learn Dimension Hop; Mantled Warrior does not give you the powers for free. Your selection generally looks great. I do have a couple issues with it, though.
That's it! The rest looks wonderful. |
| #21jaradajAug 10, 2011 18:52:28 |
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| #22Tempest_StormwindAug 10, 2011 20:38:48 | Have them use the wand on you. The cleric has the spell on his spell list; no Use Magic Device is needed. If they won't even hold a stick and say a few High Holy Hommina Homminas for you when you're the one standing between them and a pointy painful death, I would seriously give them a Stern Talking To about teamwork. Also, the game assumes magic items are available, and things are balanced accordingly. Knowing about the registration thing is kind of important here. Note that the Ring of Protection is the definitive "+AC stuff that stacks with your armor/shield". The usual basic defensive suite for characters in general is the Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, and Cloak of Resistance. (Bracers of Armor are the fourth item, but they're only favored by mage-types and armorless finesse fighters like monks, swashbucklers, and certain rogue-types.) Note that several weaker items will collectively add up to a bigger bonus for less money than a single really big item. Due to their popularity, they should be freaking everywhere if you find places adventurers frequent. |
| #23jaradajAug 10, 2011 21:34:16 | I'm sure the cleric would do it for me. Shouldn't be a problem at all. My final question bout power choices is, what powers, if any, would you suggest to enhance my 2h damage that will stack with all the possible enhancements I could get for a shield weapon? Since my feats are used up, I fear my damage will be capped, as humped as it is starting (1d4 for base heavy shield). Add a dice level for spikes, another for expansion (maybe 2 if I augment it), strong-arm bracers item, and bashing enhancement. I'm looking at 4d6 to 6d6 + 1.5 str. Not sure if that'll be good for a fighter/pw |
| #24Tempest_StormwindAug 10, 2011 22:10:11 | I'm sure the cleric would do it for me. Shouldn't be a problem at all. My final question bout power choices is, what powers, if any, would you suggest to enhance my 2h damage that will stack with all the possible enhancements I could get for a shield weapon? Since my feats are used up, I fear my damage will be capped, as humped as it is starting (1d4 for base heavy shield). Add a dice level for spikes, another for expansion (maybe 2 if I augment it), strong-arm bracers item, and bashing enhancement. I'm looking at 4d6 to 6d6 + 1.5 str. Not sure if that'll be good for a fighter/pw You're looking at the wrong part of your character. Your damage will come from Power Attack and Leap Attack primarily, from your strength and your weapon enhancements (i.e. weapon enhancement bonuses put on your shield) second, and from the base damage almost as an afterthought. Using the last build you posted, you unlock Leap Attack at level 8. Let me show you what that will mean with a NONMAGICAL shield at 1d4 base damage. I'm assuming you have an 18 base strength and a +4 item at that point (final Strength 22, modifier +6), but none of your powers active. According to Optimization By The Numbers (which should also show you the math I'm using and give you an example of benchmarks), the average AC for CR 8 monsters is 20, and they have an average of 96.48 hit points. Note that this is CR 8 monsters - these are the monsters that are tough enough to challenge your entire team on their own. The shield, thanks to your DM's rulings, is two-handed. You therefore deal 1d4+9 damage (average 11.5). With a base attack bonus of +6, you attack twice on a full attack (at +12/+7), and you have Pounce (charging at +14/+8, but -2 AC). Against your tough monster, your expected damage with the NONMAGICAL shield is (0.7+0.45)*11.5=13.225, or 13.7% of the monster's HP per charge. However, Leap Attack lets you triple the bonus damage from your power attack. That means that if you power attack for -3, your bonus damage on a two-hander is +6, and triple that is +18. Think about that, and go nuts: Power attacking for -5 lowers your attack bonus to just +9/+4 on a charge. That reduces your chance to hit by quite a bit... but it raises your damage something extreme. You now deal 1d4+9+30 damage per hit (average 41.5). That means that if you charge and pounce this monster that is meant to challenge your entire team, and you're just using a nonmagical, nonspiked shield, your expected damage is (0.45+0.2)*41.5=26.975, or a whopping 28% of the monster's hit points in just one charge. (A quick bit of calculation shows this is the optimal number, by the way. Plus adding in Shock Trooper makes this positively skyrocket, since Power Attack now no longer costs you accuracy when you charge.) Just reiterating: This is a NONMAGICAL, NON-SPIKED shield, and you have NONE of your powers active. Adding in all the mods you mentioned will add +20.5 damage to your attack (from going from 1d4 to 6d6, and adding +4 to your Strength with a double Expansion). Compare that to leap attacking and you'll see that the base damage doesn't matter nearly so much as simply using a two-handed weapon. By all means enhance your shield - spiking it and enhancing the spikes as weapons is a great idea since it makes the shield attack more accurate - but don't worry too much about dealing a lot of damage. You can do a lot of it with simply a 1d4 weapon, so long as it's a two-handed 1d4 weapon and you're charging. If you're having problems charging round after round, that's what Bull Rush and Dimension Hop are for. ![]() |
| #25jaradajAug 11, 2011 13:00:48 | Ah, so things aren't looking so bleak for me as a shield user. I shouldn't call this sword and board anymore since it's mostly now a barn door user. Now my final question for psionics is the focus. So i gain focus and old it during combat, expending it when i need to for the power effects that require it to be lost. I'll be needing to max concentration i'm guessing. Will i be rolling a concentration check every time i'm hit while i'm focused? Gaining focus is a move action right, until i get ???? On a more interesting note, here's a new feat my dm has created that i think i'll find some room for; Weapon Mastery You know your weapon, and it knows you. You delve into the intricacies of the art of battle with your favored weapon, learning more and more how to punch through defenses and deliver hurt your opponent with maximum proficiency. Prerequisites: Fighter, base attack bonus +4, weapon focus (weapon to be mastered). Benefit: This feat may be taken every fourth level and must be applied to a particular weapon, though the weapon may be chosen more than once. Each time this feat is taken with that weapon, you gain an additional +1d6 (maximum of +5d6) points of damage upon successfully striking the opponent. If you can take multiple attacks with the weapon, you gain the damage bonus at a reduce die for each attack beyond the first. If you have two attacks in a full round action and have taken this feat twice, the first attack grants a +2d6 points of damage and the second attack grants a +1d6 points of damage. Note: This Feat replaced Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization. For Feats that require either of those feats this Feat may be used in its place, taking once for a weapon would be considered t he equivalent to Weapon Specialization, taking it two or more times would be considered Greater Weapon Specialization. Special: A fighter may select Weapon Mastery as one of his fighter bonus feats. Sudden Meta-Magic Feats |
| #26Tempest_StormwindAug 11, 2011 13:24:27 | So i gain focus and old it during combat, expending it when i need to for the power effects that require it to be lost. I'll be needing to max concentration i'm guessing. Will i be rolling a concentration check every time i'm hit while i'm focused? Meditating to gain psionic focus takes a DC 20 Concentration check, and is a full-round action. Most psionic characters who do not need to expend focus meditate at the start of the day, taking 10 or 20 on the Concentration check, and don't worry about it in combat. If you're gaining or expending focus multiple times in combat, that is what the Psionic Meditation feat is for. Once you are psionically focused, you remain focused unless something causes you to lose your focus. These include: 1) Hitting 0 power points. (You must have 1 power point in reserve to gain psionic focus, and you lose focus if you spend your last power point.) 2) Falling unconscious (including falling asleep). 3) Expending psionic focus to power a feat, class feature, or other ability.* 4) Being struck by an effect that causes you to lose focus (the Psionic Hole feat is the usual example, but there's a rare few others). Simply getting hit is not enough. You will only roll a Concentration check if you're hit while doing something that requires your attention, and maintaining psionic focus isn't one of those things. *If you have the Psicrystal Containment feat, it is possible to activate one of these by expending your psicrystal's focus instead of your own, thus remaining focused while using one of these. Or you can trigger two of them at once. The 5th level of Psychic Weapon Master acts similarly. In your case, the only thing you'll ever expend focus on is Linked Power. Remember, the reason for doing that is to allow you to trigger more than one buff at once, using the manifesting time of the shorter power. (For instance, you could manifest Mental Barrier linked to Expansion as an immediate action, and "for free" on your next turn you'd grow to large size and still be able to attack.) However, since most of your standard-action powers last 10 minutes per level or longer anyway (i.e. long enough to have a good chance of setting them up in advance), and the rest of your powers are all swift-action or immediate-action, you may not even need to use Link Power at all. That is because you can take a swift action to manifest a buff, and still take a full-round action to charge. The only powers that you MIGHT want to use Link Power with are Expansion and Strength of My Enemy - both have a short duration (unless you augment Expansion, which you should), and both take a standard action to manifest (although they have augments for faster activation times, these are very expensive). You can view Link Power as a way of getting around their swift-action augments, or for manifesting both of them with a single standard action. (Or a single swift action: Augment Expansion and link it to Strength of My Enemy.) Since that's pretty much the only case you'll want to use Link Power in, you will only be expending your focus once per battle. There is no need for you to take Psychic Meditation - just meditate after battle's over. Also, your DM is nuts with that feat. It's strictly worse than Weapon Specialization. The advantages to Weapon Specialization is that it can be applied over multiple attacks, and that it can be multiplied on a critical hit. Neither of those apply with your feat. In fact, your DM's feat will only be better than Weapon Specialization on levels 4 and 5. Don't take it. It's a trap. Remember, the majority of your damage comes from Power Attack. This feat adds +3.5 damage to your first attack in the round if you take it once, and requires Weapon Focus (meaning another feat is added to the cost). If you take just a -1 penalty on Power Attack, that adds +6 damage to each attack you make (assuming you're charging and using Leap Attack). If you are NOT charging or using Leap Attack, taking just a -2 penalty adds +4 damage to every attack you're making with the shield, which is better than +3.5 to the first attack. Also, if your DM thinks this is good design but does not allow the Tome of Battle, inform him that in the Tome of Battle, the basic stance of the Iron Heart school gives you -2 AC, and +1d6 on all attacks - pretty close to what he considers a good ability. (Seriously, Iron Heart is mostly what the Fighter would be doing anyway.) |
| #27jaradajAug 11, 2011 15:47:50 | Dang Tempest, you are awesome. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge and most important, understanding and patience for a noob (me). After some intellectual conversations in front of the party i got him to reconsider on Tome of Battle for the future (not current campaign, but it's a start). Come to find out he has a soft spot for psionics as well, so the perspective character build is little trouble. Can i pick your brain on psionic weapon feat? Also i was given the option for 3.5e power attack or pathfinder version. Apparently if pathfinder has the same feat (same name) i can choose the better of the 2... Your thoughts? |
| #28Tempest_StormwindAug 11, 2011 16:08:39 | Can i pick your brain on psionic weapon feat? It usually isn't worth it on its own, but it opens up several options which can be. Deep Impact is probably the best one in the XPH; I don't know of many extra add-ons outside of that. There are some situations where it's worth it, but basing a character around them is usually not worth it. They can be nice add-ons but should never be the chassis unless you've got something fancy going on (for instance, combining Manyshot with Fell Shot - all the arrows use the same attack roll, which is now a touch attack.) Also i was given the option for 3.5e power attack or pathfinder version. Apparently if pathfinder has the same feat (same name) i can choose the better of the 2... Your thoughts? 3.5's is more powerful (especially for two-handers) but slower to resolve since you need to do more math on the fly. Pathfinder's is simpler (although it doesn't look like it) and has the advantage of helping out off-hand weapons. In your case, 3.5's is the better choice by far, but learning to apply the optimal power attack for a given situation takes quite a bit of practice (on top of learning to pace yourself with your power points, which I would argue is probably going to be more fundamental for you). This won't be a factor once you pick up Shock Trooper, though. |
| #29aelryinthAug 11, 2011 18:32:10 | Mathematically, Pathfinder's is more powerful, but not as flexible. You get a 1:2 dmg increase for one hand, 1:3 for two hands, but the amount you can spend is limited by level. 3.5's is considered 'better' for two hands, because the 'ultimate' bonus is higher, and you can 'buy off' the penalty to hit by using Touch Attacks (Deep Impact), Shock Trooper, and the like. As a Side Note, your Ultimate Goal is a standard Uber Shield: +5 Large Shield of Bashing, with either Shield Razors or Shield Spikes, also enchanted to +5 Defender. This is a 2-12 20/x2 weapon you can wield in one hand or two. If you are allowed Pathfinder Shield Mastery, which lets you use the Shield Enhancement of your shield for the weapon enhancement, you can basically turn 'on' your +5 Defender all the time, and get a +12 bonus to AC as a default when in melee. With Shield Ward, that's Touch AC...with a Missile Ward token, add +4 vs ranged attacks! ===Aelryinth |
| #30The_Crimson_DawnAug 13, 2011 0:49:13 | Mathematically, Pathfinder's is more powerful, but not as flexible. You get a 1:2 dmg increase for one hand, 1:3 for two hands, but the amount you can spend is limited by level. Of course if you use shield mastery you no longer need shocktrooper since it already eliminates penalties as long as you at least wield another weapon (spiked armor anybody?). |
| #31aelryinthAug 13, 2011 12:18:09 | ?? what's shock trooper got to do with eliminating shield wielding penalties? Shock Trooper transfers the penalty from Power Attack to your AC from your To-Hit. That's basically the only reason people take it. ===Aelryinth |
| #32Tempest_StormwindAug 13, 2011 14:11:34 | Shield Master in Pathfinder has one of the weirdest lines of text I've ever seen in it: "You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon." While undoubtedly designed to get around the main reason no one likes Tower Shields, for a strict reading, it also cancels out Power Attack penalties on shield bashes so long as you're holding another weapon. |
| #33Slagger_the_ChuulAug 13, 2011 17:24:08 | Shield Master in Pathfinder has one of the weirdest lines of text I've ever seen in it: "You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon." While undoubtedly designed to get around the main reason no one likes Tower Shields, for a strict reading, it also cancels out Power Attack penalties on shield bashes so long as you're holding another weapon. From the sound of it, I would guess that Shield Master was intended to cancel out the shield half of the two-weapon fighting penalties for someone fighting with a shield and weapon (especially given the prerequisites, which include the Two-Weapon Fighting feat). Since the removal of penalties only applies to the shield, and you can't shield bash with a tower shield, it wouldn't be much good for that. |
| #34The_Crimson_DawnAug 13, 2011 19:02:50 | In addition to eliminating power attack penalties while using the shield (and by use I mean attacking with the shield) it also eliminates the pnalties from the imp and greater two weapon fighting feats. So if you wield two heavy shields (I like going light and heavy since I am worried that I might need to have a hand ready to grab something) and have two weapon fighting, imp two weapon fighting, and greater two weapon fighting with shield master your attacks base attack bonus sequence looks like this at BAB 20 +20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5 That is main hand/offhand two weapon fight/imp two weapon fight/greater two weapon fight/main hand/main hand That is really nice since unlike most two weapon builds you will hit a lot. Now you just need to find ways of getting mobility while full attacking... |
| #35aelryinthAug 13, 2011 21:00:07 | I think any DM who lets that interpretation of the feat fly deserves what happens to him. Not that it couldn't be interpreted that way, but it's clearly against RAI and balance, and the RAW, if negotiable, should err on the side of precedence.==Aelryinth |
| #36jaradajAug 13, 2011 21:39:04 | If I were to stay pure fighter I would definitely go with shield master, perhaps talk my dm into accepting agile shield fighter feat instead of two weapon fighting. Then I'd pick up some range 1h and have some fun. I'm debating the use of schism and/or metamorphosis. While they are both nice, I don't think the power of metamorphosis will be needed in the campaign, and the use of schism won't be needed either since I have less than a handful of powers that would benefit. I'm debating on switching them out (and psionic weapon) for shield sling and psionic meditation. Should I lose focus for a power I can regain it with the move action and still attack from range (shield sling + telekinetic boomerang). I'm also concerned for my damage. Granted leap attack and power attack will help sure, but till then I'm sporting a 1d4 weapon (till I can spike it). I feel that a shield being used with 2 hands should do more damage that a tiny longsword. Deadliest warrior tested the spartan shield and mentioned it doing more damage (45 g forces) than their spear. I suppose thats the differnce between fantasy and reality. Any special shields that do more damage? Another option I was looking at was to get monkey grip. If I understand the rules on welding larger/smaller weapons with the feat I should be able to wield a medium sized spear in one hand giving me a 1d8 weapon with range. Then a1d8 (spiked) shield in the other hand for close range. With the shield push feat (homebew feat from first post) I can knock them back if they get inside my spear range. |
| #37Tempest_StormwindAug 13, 2011 22:54:39 | I'm debating the use of schism and/or metamorphosis. While they are both nice, I don't think the power of metamorphosis will be needed in the campaign, and the use of schism won't be needed either since I have less than a handful of powers that would benefit. That's a good point. I don't use either power all that often myself (although I do tend to use Temporal Acceleration if I have access to it). I'm debating on switching them out (and psionic weapon) for shield sling and psionic meditation. Should I lose focus for a power I can regain it with the move action and still attack from range (shield sling + telekinetic boomerang). You'd lose your core source of damage, since throwing a shield is one-handed. Similarly, if your only use of focus is a single feat (Link Power) which you'd use once at the beginning of battle, there's no need to regain focus mid-battle. (I only take psychic meditation if I'm playing a character who uses an expend feat as a primary attack form.) I'm also concerned for my damage. Granted leap attack and power attack will help sure, but till then I'm sporting a 1d4 weapon (till I can spike it). At the really low levels, like your current level, the shield is your backup, not your main weapon. Although spiking is a good idea nonetheless. Just rely on a more traditional weapon and use the shield in descriptions of bull rush until you can add more power to it later. I feel that a shield being used with 2 hands should do more damage that a tiny longsword. Deadliest warrior tested the spartan shield and mentioned it doing more damage (45 g forces) than their spear. I suppose thats the differnce between fantasy and reality. First, Deadliest Warrior isn't necessarily reality. Second, while the Spartans DID use their shields as a weapon, they used it primarily as a wall, with their spear being the main weapon because it's faster and has better reach. That's reflected in D&D by the spear not requiring a feat to be effective while the shield takes a special feat to do so - it's harder to make the shield effective. (If the shield were such an ideal main weapon, they wouldn't need to have a short sword on their belts to use after throwing/losing their spears.) Similarly, most spartans would be really low level. The badassery of the Spartans would be reflected by demographically having more PC classes or higher-ability-score arrays than most of the places, not by having higher level characters. Calibrate your expectations and you'll see what I mean. Any special shields that do more damage? The only special shield I know of that's designed as a weapon rather than a shield is in Races of Stone, and basically has a blade strapped to it. Otherwise a spiked shield is your best bet. Another option I was looking at was to get monkey grip. If I understand the rules on welding larger/smaller weapons with the feat I should be able to wield a medium sized spear in one hand giving me a 1d8 weapon with range. Then a1d8 (spiked) shield in the other hand for close range. With the shield push feat (homebew feat from first post) I can knock them back if they get inside my spear range. Danger, Will Robinson! Danger! Monkey Grip is a trap feat. Doubly so for you, since I'm not sure if you can use the shield two-handed while holding a weapon under your DM's houserule. You certainly can't hold the spear two-handed. Remember, the overwhelming amount of your damage will stem from the weapon being two-handed and having that interact with your feats. Also, you've stumbled upon one of the edition changes. In 3e, it let you use a weapon one size larger as if it weren't (i.e. the Large greatsword could be used one-handed by a Medium creature - in 3e, the relationship between weapon and user size set the effort to use it). In 3.5, it lets you use a weapon one size larger without changing the effort (so the two-handed Large spear is held two-handed by a Medium user). You do not get to use a Medium longspear one-handed either. The only one-handed reach weapon I know of is the Kusari-Gama in the DMG, and we've covered that one already. |
| #38jaradajAug 14, 2011 1:35:57 | After rearranging the feats and re-reading them I realize leap attack will be a dc of 20 most of the time. So I figure I'd need leap of heavens. Also thought some extra maneuverability for charges would be good so I added the last 2 feats. Hre's the new look, what are your thoughts? Fighter2/barb1/pw17 Human Lvl 1 -improve shield bash -combat exp -improve trip Lvl 2 -knockdown Lvl 3 -shield charge -pounce ability from lion spirit barb variant Lvl 4 -shield slam Lvl 5 -mantled warrior Lvl 6 -power attack Lvl 7 ------------------------- Lvl 8 -leap attack Lvl 9 -leap of heavens Lvl10------------------------- Lvl11-improve bull rush Lvl12-shock trooper Lvl13------------------------- Lvl14-shield spec Lvl15-shield ward Lvl16------------------------- Lvl17-linked power Lvl18-speed of thought Lvl19------------------------- Lvl20-psionic charge |
| #39Tempest_StormwindAug 14, 2011 10:17:32 | You won't need Leap of the Heavens. You can move 20, then jump at DC 10 at the early levels (Leap Attack requires 8 ranks and you have enough Strength to never fail this check), then just jump at later levels once you have more ranks and Strength. A +2 Jump masterwork tool is only 50gp (athletic shoes or something). Other more magical options are available too. All of this will save you your feat slots. Other than that, I wouldnote you have poor focus choices. Two expend focus feats without Psi Meditation, and a maintain focus feat that will turn off if you use either of the other ones. I would strongly suggest choosing one of the following paradigms to use; 1- all maintain focus feats (small but constant buffs) 2- a single expend focus feat that doesn't need repeated use in one battle (Link Power with your power selection is an example) 3- reusable expend feats, with Psychic Meditation (this and Hustle will let you employ those feats often. Psionic Charge is a great feat for this.) You've blended all three. This won't matter until the high levels in your build though, so you'll have time to get used to it first. |
| #40Tempest_StormwindAug 14, 2011 10:31:12 | ...sorry for the double post. I'm on a mobile browser and can't find an Edit button. The Leap of the Heavens slot should be Practiced Manifester. Augment your buffs three levels earlier and gain bonus power points - you'll see a difference, especially if your Wisdom is high. Since you need 16 to manifest the highest level powers, I'll use that as an example. At level 9 (psywar 6), you will have 11 base power points and (3*6*0.5) 9 bonus power points and can spend up to 6 on one manifestation. With Practiced Manifester that climbs to 13 bonus power points and lets you spend up to 8 (meaning you can augment Expansion! And it lasts 9 rounds by default instead of 6!). A big improvement for just one feat. It only continues to improve with level and Wisdom. Other than that it looks great - your best attempt yet - until the high levels as I said above. |
| #41jaradajAug 14, 2011 12:49:10 | I'll switch the leap of heavens. My concern now is that my wisdom is only 12. I know I need at least 13 but it sounds like I should place all stat points in wisdom. |
| #42Tempest_StormwindAug 14, 2011 18:39:32 | I'll switch the leap of heavens. My concern now is that my wisdom is only 12. I know I need at least 13 but it sounds like I should place all stat points in wisdom. I wouldn't worry about that too much. You only "need" 13 for Speed of Thought, and that shows up late in your build. The real problem is that you need a Wisdom score of 10+level to manifest said powers. The stat points would be a good idea, as would Tomes (though they get pricey, they're also fire-and-forget). Of course, my point about focus strategy matters. Assuming you're playing a primary warrior (and thus may not need to max out Concentration), there are three general strategies, each with different deands. If you're playing with Link Power, it's a single-use expend focus feat. You can focus first thing in the morning, expend when battle starts, and fight normally. Since you only need to expend the once to get the full effects, you don't worry about refocusing until you finish fighting. If you need to maintain focus with this, you usually take Psicrystal Containment and expend your psicrystal's focus. However, on its own, it just needs the feat. It's worth noting that this strategy does not need any ranks in Concentration at all, although typically enough are taken to have a +10 modifier (so you can refocus in one round once battle's done by taking 10, in case reinforcements are coming). (My current psion uses Personal Construct, which fits the same bill. My DM did (wisely) rule that I still pay for the construct, just not for the quickening.) If you're playing with Speed of Thought, it's a maintain-focus feat. With this, you focus at the start of the day and generally don't worry about losng focus. You may expend it to power a feat every so often, or to save your arse on Concentration checks, but typically you keep it up at all times. On its own, this strategy works with no extra investment - not even in Concentration ranks, since you take 20 at the start of the day. (My last monk-styled character used these extensively. To be fair, he was also a Psychic Acrobat, which only expends focus for Mental Leap and Slice Time. The class was expressly designed using Psicrystal Containement / Subconscious Containment, which allow for you to combine this strategy with the last.) If you're playing with Psionic Charge on a charger, it's an expend-focus feat which you want to use all the time. Characters using this need to invest in ways of reducing the refocus time. Typically these involve Psionic Meditation, which is frequently combined with the Hustle power. Occasionally they also make use of Psicrystal Containment. In every case, you usually need to max out Concentration (at least a +19 modifier to guarantee your success). It is NEVER a good idea to adopt this strategy without seriously investing for it. (I have plans to play a quick-draw samurai-styled character based around this idea. Thankfully the character in question never needs more than a standard action to attack, so I always have an action free to Hustle or Meditation refocus.) In your character, you have all three, with none of the infrastructure feats (Psionic Meditation, Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Containment, etc). That's what I'm worried about. You'll see what I mean with experience, so don't count on having all three of those at high levels. Pick a strategy and stick to it. (I'd suggest the maintain-focus route, since it's the simplest to keep track of and the fastest at the table.) |
| #43jaradajAug 15, 2011 22:03:01 | Can I get a psionic crystal and use linked power expanded->schism. Expend the crystal's focus then use the 2nd standard action I get from schism to cast the powers I need that require a standard action to use. That way I can still have my focus? The build would look like this, filling in the final 2 feats for those needed to succeed the above idea if at all possible. [spoiler] Fighter2/barb1/pw17 Human Lvl 1 fighter lvl1 -improve shield bash. -combat exp -improve trip Lvl 2 fighter lvl2 -knockdown Lvl 3 barb lvl1 -shield charge -pounce ability from lion spirit barb variant Lvl 4 pw lvl1 -shield slam Lvl 5 pw lvl2 -mantled warrior Lvl 6 pw lvl3 -power attack Lvl 7 pw lvl4 ------------------------- Lvl 8 pw lvl5 -leap attack Lvl 9 pw lvl6 -improve bull rush Lvl10 pw lvl7------------------------- Lvl11 pw lvl8 -shock trooper Lvl12 pw lvl9 -shield spec Lvl13 pw lvl10------------------------- Lvl14 pw lvl11 -shield ward Lvl15 pw lvl12 -linked power Lvl16 pw lvl13------------------------- Lvl17 pw lvl14 -ek schism Lvl18 pw lvl15 - Lvl19 pw lvl16------------------------- Lvl20 pw lvl17 - |
| #44Tempest_StormwindAug 15, 2011 22:40:04 | Can I get a psionic crystal and use linked power expanded->schism. Expend the crystal's focus then use the 2nd standard action I get from schism to cast the powers I need that require a standard action to use. That way I can still have my focus? The build would look like this, filling in the final 2 feats for those needed to succeed the above idea if at all possible. Yes, you could. That's exactly why people take Psicrystal Containment (see what I wrote about it above). The buff you describe would take a standard (or swift, depending on augments to Expansion) action to manifest, and would cost you your crystal's focus in addition to the combined power points of the two powers. On the following round, schism would appear through no action of yours. On the NEXT round (read Schism carefully), you could start using your schism'd mind to manifest powers. All the while, your main psionic focus would remain intact. Due to the delay in Schism, it's not often used as the main power here. However, you can get a similar effect by linking Schism to Expansion, instead of Expansion to Schism. You'd be normal-sized for the first round (while your splinter mind grows accustomed to its split existence), but on the second round both powers would be in full force. The only drawback here is that you cannot manifest Schism as a swift action (so you'd spend your first round buffing rather than fighting), but if you weren't planning on augmenting Expansion for speed, this effect is identical. Note, however, that Expansion gets a far cheaper 10-minute-per-level duration augment. You may very well already have Expansion active when the battle begins. (Most of your powers are actually pretty long duration.) |