Help

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

darkhand342

Nov 20, 2011 17:06:06
Hi! So, I just cleared it with my dm, so I'm going to be playing one of his former characters, only thing, I'm not sure what his weaknesses are, and I don't want to rush into an epic level campaign without some foreknowledge of my strengths and weaknesses.  This is my first epic level campaign so any help is appreciated. This is who I'm playing.


Vosk, Half-Dragon Gray-elf Transmuter 17/Warshaper 5
Medium Dragon
Hit Dice: 16d4+5d8+202 (284)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 60, Fly 60 (Average)
Armor Class: (+5 Dex, +5 Deflection, +5 Armor, +4 Natural Armor)
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+15
Attack: +3 Goring Longspear +20 Melee (1d8+9/x3, x2 when Charging)
Full Attack: +3 Goring Longspear +20 +15 +10 Melee (1d8+9/x3, x2 when Charging)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. With Spear)
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon 30 ft. cone of cold (6d8 Reflex 14 Half)
Special Qualities: Low-Light Vision, Darkivision 60 ft., Immunity to Paralysis and Sleep, Immunity to Cold, Familiar (Raven), Morphic Immunity, Morphic Weapons, Morphic Body, Morphic Reach, Morphic Healing (Fast Healing 2), Multimorph
Saves: +22 +17 +18
Abilities: Str 20 Dex 20 Con 28 Int 36 Wis 12 Cha 12
Skills: Concentration +32, Spellcraft +33, Knowledge (All) +35, Autohypnosis +11, Tumble +20, Jump +20, Swim +10, Climb +10,
Feats: Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Dragon Breath, Dragon Wings, Improved Dragon Wings, Flyby Attack, Hover, Run, Epic Speed, Familiar Spell
CR: 24
Treasure: Cloak of Resistance +6, Ring of Protection +5, Bracers of Armor +5, Headband of Intellect +8, Tome of Intelligence +3 (Used), Ring of Invisibility, Amulet of Health +6, Boots of Teleportation, Elixer of Truth x8, Helm of Telepathy, Shrouds of Disintegration x6, Wand of Cat’s Grace x10, Wand of Bull’s Strength x9, Wand of Owl’s Wisdom x10, Wand of Eagle’s Splendor x7, Wand of Dispel Magic (CL 10) x15, Wand of Stoneskin x4, Wand of Greater Restoration x10, Wand of Lightning Bolt x8, Potion of Heal (CL 15) x 8
Alignment: N

0 Level Spells- Message, Arcane Mark, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Mending
Level Spells- Enlarge Person, Featherfall, Jump, Reduce Person, Expeditious Retreat, Ray of Enfeeblment, Disguise Self, Ventriloquism, Shield
2 level spells-  Whispering Wind, Spider Climb, Knock, Alter Self, Spectral Hand, Ghoul Touch, Hypnotic Pattern, See Invisibility
3 Level Spells- Water Breathing, Slow, Haste, Vampiric Touch, Major Image, Explosive Runes, Dispel Magic, Flint Body
4 Level Spells- Mass Enlarge Person, Mass Reduce Enlarge Person, Selniss’ Unbreakable Spirit, Selniss’ Purging, Enervation, Bestow Curse, Animate Dead, Solid Fog
5 Level Spells- Telekinesisx2, Baelful Polymorph, Passwall, Dismissal, Break Enchantment, Persistent Image, Shadow Evocation,
6 Level Spells- Mass Bear’s Endurance, Mass Bull’s Strength, Mass Fox’s Cunning, Disintegrate, Control Water, Programmed Image, True Seeing
7 Level Spells- Control Weather, Reverse Gravity, Control Undead, Greater Teleport, Teleport Object, Limited Wish
8 Level Spells- Polymorph any Object, Iron Body, Greater Shadow Evocation, Maze, Incendiary Cloud
9 Level Spells- Time Stop, Etheralness, Soul Bind, Mage’s Disjunction
#2

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 20, 2011 17:32:41
Hi! So, I just cleared it with my dm, so I'm going to be playing one of his former characters, only thing, I'm not sure what his weaknesses are, and I don't want to rush into an epic level campaign without some foreknowledge of my strengths and weaknesses.  This is my first epic level campaign so any help is appreciated. This is who I'm playing.


Generally speaking Epic is harder to judge than pre-epic, but I'll see what I can do.


Vosk, Half-Dragon Gray-elf Transmuter 17/Warshaper 5


You're giving up an incredible EIGHT caster levels and probably shouldn't be doing that. Warshaper is a melee prestige class, not a spellcaster one, so I'm not quite sure what it's doing in there.

Second, I don't know why you're using half-dragon here at all. Sure, it gets +2 Intelligence, but at a cost of three levels and bonuses to your physical ability scores, which are almost certainly going to be overwritten via Shapechange with a build like that. You get a breath weapon, but it's almost certainly going to be worse than your spells. (I noticed later on you're taking feats to improve it; what I said is still true.)

Third, that's an AWFUL lot of Transmuter. You can achieve exactly the same caster level with better abilities if you pick up just about any wizard prestige class. Any reason why you're sticking with stock Transmuter?
Attack: +3 Goring Longspear +20 Melee (1d8+9/x3, x2 when Charging)

If you're a transmuter, you're undoubtedly polymorphing. When you polymorph, you lose your equipment. Why are you bothering with a melee weapon to begin with if this is the case, especially one that would be better suited to a warrior than a wizard? You'd probably be better off spending this gold on a staff or similar.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon 30 ft. cone of cold (6d8 Reflex 14 Half)

See what I mean? All but the absolute slowest characters will be able to auto-pass this save, meaning you spend your action to deal 3d8 (average 13.5) damage in a small cone. This is a pea shooter in epic. (If you like the idea of breath weapons, though, you can use the Draconic Breath feat in Complete Arcane to get one that'll be a bit better.)
Feats: Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Dragon Breath, Dragon Wings, Improved Dragon Wings, Flyby Attack, Hover, Run, Epic Speed, Familiar Spell

The metamagic is good, but why are you spending so much on wings when you can easily fly using basic magic? Three of those feats can be replaced with a simple Fly spell, which you can extend to last nearly an hour. You have enough third-level slots for it.
Treasure: Cloak of Resistance +6, Ring of Protection +5, Bracers of Armor +5, Headband of Intellect +8, Tome of Intelligence +3 (Used), Ring of Invisibility, Amulet of Health +6, Boots of Teleportation, Elixer of Truth x8, Helm of Telepathy, Shrouds of Disintegration x6, Wand of Cat’s Grace x10, Wand of Bull’s Strength x9, Wand of Owl’s Wisdom x10, Wand of Eagle’s Splendor x7, Wand of Dispel Magic (CL 10) x15, Wand of Stoneskin x4, Wand of Greater Restoration x10, Wand of Lightning Bolt x8, Potion of Heal (CL 15) x 8

I see a few things here you can't use - Greater Restoration isn't a wizard spell. Likewise, most of these effects are too low level to really matter, and you've got a LOT of them sitting around instead of converting that gold into bigger boosts for things that matter. For instance, buying scrolls and scribing them into your spellbook will be better uses of your gold than SEVEN wands of Eagle's Splendor for you (you have nothing that works off of Charisma, and that costs as much as over SIX HUNDRED levels of spells.) Likewise with the lightning bolt wands (see the comment on your breath weapon above).
0 Level Spells- Message, Arcane Mark, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Mending
Level Spells- Enlarge Person, Featherfall, Jump, Reduce Person, Expeditious Retreat, Ray of Enfeeblment, Disguise Self, Ventriloquism, Shield
2 level spells-  Whispering Wind, Spider Climb, Knock, Alter Self, Spectral Hand, Ghoul Touch, Hypnotic Pattern, See Invisibility
3 Level Spells- Water Breathing, Slow, Haste, Vampiric Touch, Major Image, Explosive Runes, Dispel Magic, Flint Body
4 Level Spells- Mass Enlarge Person, Mass Reduce Enlarge Person, Selniss’ Unbreakable Spirit, Selniss’ Purging, Enervation, Bestow Curse, Animate Dead, Solid Fog
5 Level Spells- Telekinesisx2, Baelful Polymorph, Passwall, Dismissal, Break Enchantment, Persistent Image, Shadow Evocation,
6 Level Spells- Mass Bear’s Endurance, Mass Bull’s Strength, Mass Fox’s Cunning, Disintegrate, Control Water, Programmed Image, True Seeing
7 Level Spells- Control Weather, Reverse Gravity, Control Undead, Greater Teleport, Teleport Object, Limited Wish
8 Level Spells- Polymorph any Object, Iron Body, Greater Shadow Evocation, Maze, Incendiary Cloud
9 Level Spells- Time Stop, Etheralness, Soul Bind, Mage’s Disjunction
#3

darkhand342

Nov 20, 2011 18:20:40
thanks so much!
looks like we have some work to do.
#4

draco1119

Nov 20, 2011 19:16:42
Treasure: Cloak of Resistance +6, Ring of Protection +5, Bracers of Armor +5, Headband of Intellect +8, Tome of Intelligence +3 (Used), Ring of Invisibility, Amulet of Health +6, Boots of Teleportation, Elixer of Truth x8, Helm of Telepathy, Shrouds of Disintegration x6, Wand of Cat’s Grace x10, Wand of Bull’s Strength x9, Wand of Owl’s Wisdom x10, Wand of Eagle’s Splendor x7, Wand of Dispel Magic (CL 10) x15, Wand of Stoneskin x4, Wand of Greater Restoration x10, Wand of Lightning Bolt x8, Potion of Heal (CL 15) x 8

I see a few things here you can't use - Greater Restoration isn't a wizard spell. Likewise, most of these effects are too low level to really matter, and you've got a LOT of them sitting around instead of converting that gold into bigger boosts for things that matter. For instance, buying scrolls and scribing them into your spellbook will be better uses of your gold than SEVEN wands of Eagle's Splendor for you (you have nothing that works off of Charisma, and that costs as much as over SIX HUNDRED levels of spells.) Likewise with the lightning bolt wands (see the comment on your breath weapon above).

Just a quick note: I'm guessing that's the number of charges left on the wands, not the number of wands.  What T_S said still stands, though.  There are better ways to spend your gold.

Oh, and 8 potions of Heal?!
#5

darkhand342

Nov 20, 2011 20:06:32
he did say it was pretty rusty, guess this is what he meant, and yeah, those are the charges on the wands.
#6

draco1119

Nov 20, 2011 21:27:32
Just so we understand correctly:
1) This is your first time playing an epic campaign.
2) You're dusting off an old character.
3) Said old character is woefully un-optimized.

Is this the character that you must play?  If so, how much is it allowed to be changed?

If not, what kind of character would you like?  What are you hoping to be able to do and/or what type of role needs to be filled?
#7

darkhand342

Nov 20, 2011 21:45:17
well, Its either this or another one of my former characters, though the other one doesn't sound to bad at this point, the only problem, he was 15 level when I stopped playing him, but I did have some plans for his epic level progression
#8

draco1119

Nov 21, 2011 7:49:35
Ok, so it has to be a pre-existing character?  What is the other character?  What kind of plans did you have for it?  What are the other players playing; will either of your options fill an empty role?
#9

darkhand342

Nov 21, 2011 12:51:23
The other Character is a Dread Necro, 15th level, and he was going to go 20th level (my DM is ruling that the capstone for DN does turn you into a lich), after that he would go into a homebrew PRC, found here: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lich_Paragon_%283....
#10

draco1119

Nov 21, 2011 14:45:59
Um... play the lich. 

Unless, of course, you'll be in a party that has issues with evil PCs.
#11

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 21, 2011 21:00:51
Um... play the lich. 

Unless, of course, you'll be in a party that has issues with evil PCs.


Interestingly, unless the DM's ruling is a bit different, he doesn't have to be Evil. The Dread Necromancer and this "Lich Paragon" require Nongood. EDIT: What on earth was I on yesterday? The Dread Necro is Nongood, but the Lich Paragon is evil. DERP sorry.

(That said, the "Lich Paragon" isn't all that hot... especially into epic. Its one nice ability, the artifact phylactery, is trivial, since any epic lich knows ways of hiding their phylactery such that no being would be able to actually reach it, let alone destroy it in the first place. Its other abilities show the writer doesn't know what he's talking about - for instance, you can turn any object into your phylactery by default, so the big pull of the class is a poorly-written ability that doesn't actually do anything. (Also, Unholy Toughness? There's no Constitution modifier to replace, by definition of the Undead type, so that's yet another ability that does nothing. He should have copied the ability's text from the MM3.) The problem with D&DWiki is that so many people just don't understand the Philosophy of Class Design, or how to properly balance or develop something..)

Still, I second Draco, especially into epic. This and this should help.

I don't know where most of our Epic board regulars went, but reading through that board should help somewhat in showing you what sort of challenges you'd have to face. (Hint: They're not the challenges that warrant wands of +enhancement spells to all six ability scores.)
#12

draco1119

Nov 21, 2011 22:36:56
...The Dread Necromancer and this "Lich Paragon" require Nongood.

Lich Paragon requires an Evil alignment.