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Help: Ordained Champion

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
puck_d-hoffryn
Mar 21, 2008 0:55:56 This is a very rough draft of a build for an ordained champion I will be playing in an upcomming group. Help a brother out.

I have all the books. Literally. Not PDF either. Real books.

Um... ok I want help with a build, but I don't want you guys to do what you normally do. Suggestions for feats, spells, and prestige classes that fit the theme or work really good mechanically are great. However saying 2 this/2 that/ 2 this/ 4 that completely unrelated thing to get x ability/ 5 that. I want three classes tops. I want a character that balances theme with mechanics.

So what is the theme? Benjamin Barker meets Niccoli Machiavelli. A cleric of hexor with manipulative and political skills that just got out of prison, adopts a new identity, and wants to rise to the top of society. A total beast in combat with some social ability. Tyranny, War, Combat, Manipulation, Deception, Blackmail, Deceit.

Good stats: STR, CHA, with ok WIS and CON

Mechanics:

Lvs 15 Cleric, 5 Ordained Champion

Feats (in no perticular order): Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Diehard, Improved Disarm, Holy Warrior, Divine Metamagic: Quicken, Quicken, Extra Turn, Leadership, Might Makes Right, Divine Power. I may have one more. I am totally turning 2 domain abilities in for feats.

Race: Human.

Ok... go
#2
22_Over_7
Mar 21, 2008 1:09:31
Ok... go

This must rank pretty high among things that people here hate seeing the most. What, am I being paid to do this for you? I don't even see a ing "thank you" in your post.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=901454 - an Ordained Champion build. Get some spell ideas there.
#3
dakr
Mar 21, 2008 8:33:52 I'm with 22_Over_7. Specially given the remark that implies that we never give suggestions that fit the desired theme. It sometimes happens, but not always.

I must say, on the other hand, that your character's concept is quite cool. I wouldn't bother with such a high Cha, though. Since you'll have nigh-full caster progression, you will need a better Wis. I'd put a 12-14 on it, get 5 ranks in Know (nobility) and in Bluff for Diplomacy synergy, which should be enough.

I wouldn't take Quicken + DMM (quicken) either, because OC eats up both your swift actions and your turn attempts.

Combat Expertise is also a bad choice, since it requires Int 13. Besides, your AC is probably going to be pretty high already. Improved Disarm? Come on.
#4
fricot_1
Mar 21, 2008 10:18:01 I don't understand why you have Diehard. I mean, sure, you get the 10 extra hit points out of it, but your level 20. Buy a sword of wrathful healing... or something... or just spontaneous "Heal" yourself.
Weapon Focus? Is there a feat that has this as a prerequisite? I mean, its a +1 to your attack. I would rather invest it in another Extra Turning.
And if you want to be B.A. at hand-to-hand why not just use DMM:Persist with Divine Power? In other words why not walk in and say "I Win".
#5
dakr
Mar 21, 2008 10:25:24
I don't understand why you have Diehard. I mean, sure, you get the 10 extra hit points out of it, but your level 20. Buy a sword of wrathful healing... or something... or just spontaneous "Heal" yourself.
Weapon Focus? Is there a feat that has this as a prerequisite? I mean, its a +1 to your attack. I would rather invest it in another Extra Turning.
And if you want to be B.A. at hand-to-hand why not just use DMM:Persist with Divine Power? In other words why not walk in and say "I Win".

Diehard is a bonus feat from Ordained Champion; Weapon Focus comes from the War domain.

DMM: Persist isn't that hot with OC, since you're probably hitting +16 BAB anyway.
#6
22_Over_7
Mar 21, 2008 13:02:53
DMM: Persist isn't that hot with OC, since you're probably hitting +16 BAB anyway.

And you can spontaneously cast Quicken'd War domain spells, like Divine Power, so there's really no need.
#7
puck_d-hoffryn
Mar 21, 2008 14:32:56 I actually do thank people for helping me. So thank you. I wasn't trying to be bossy, I just usually post stuff on here and get a response along the lines of "Why are you taking 10 levels of cleric! thats stupid, instead go paladin of tyranny and dip into these four random classes" and they completely miss the point. That build for example i was linked to does not help at all. It is for a cleric who takes swordsage and focuses on two weapon fighting and dexterity. None of those feats would help me. I am a strength and tank build. I have just been out of the game for a while so I was looking for suggestions for a third class or prestige class to help augment the build, some spells I may not have heard of, and some nice combat oriented or tyranny oriented feats. Diehard and Weapon Focus were free feats. Ok so Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Divine Metamagic, and Quicken are all stupid. What would be suggested in there place?
#8
Wyvernhand
Mar 21, 2008 15:04:13 1 level of Crusader (or 2 feats Martial Study/Martial Stance) would allow you to take levels in Ruby Knight Vindicator. Unfortunately, you run into the fluff concern of RKV dedicated to WeeJas and OC dedicated to Hier/Hex, but if you can get around that, you can get some crazy buff synergy.

RKV 7 gives you Divine Impetus, which allows you to spend turn attempts to gain swift actions which allows you to cast your War Domain spells. In fact, you could expend all of your turn attempts and all your 6th+ level spells to cast a VERY large number of flamestrikes in a round, which would be hillarious but rather abusive.

Cleric5/Crusader1/RKV9/OC5 (in any order to cherry pick maneuvers) gives you some pretty decent beatdown. You won't get 9th level spells, but you'll have a lot of beat power without them. The ability to buff to full as swift actions bought with Divine Impetus means you go from mediocre to imba in the blink of an eye. Plus, you get some cool Crusader stuff. If you can time it right, you might be able to grab Immortal Fortitude, you'll be a pillar of unkillableness since your fort and will saves will be imba, and you can't die from hp damage.
#9
dakr
Mar 22, 2008 14:58:38 In the adaptation section under RKV, there's an option for using Hextor as patron deity. Even with no Divine Impetus abuse this is an awesome class - for your character, even more since it grants 4 skill pts per level.

You should also take a look into the Cleric 7 substitution level in CC. That's some powerful lay on hands ability - and the fact that you're not good-aligned doesn't mean anything. Just use it on yourself :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 puck_d-hoffryn Mar 21, 2008 0:55:56	This is a very rough draft of a build for an ordained champion I will be playing in an upcomming group. Help a brother out. I have all the books. Literally. Not PDF either. Real books. Um... ok I want help with a build, but I don't want you guys to do what you normally do. Suggestions for feats, spells, and prestige classes that fit the theme or work really good mechanically are great. However saying 2 this/2 that/ 2 this/ 4 that completely unrelated thing to get x ability/ 5 that. I want three classes tops. I want a character that balances theme with mechanics. So what is the theme? Benjamin Barker meets Niccoli Machiavelli. A cleric of hexor with manipulative and political skills that just got out of prison, adopts a new identity, and wants to rise to the top of society. A total beast in combat with some social ability. Tyranny, War, Combat, Manipulation, Deception, Blackmail, Deceit. Good stats: STR, CHA, with ok WIS and CON Mechanics: Lvs 15 Cleric, 5 Ordained Champion Feats (in no perticular order): Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Diehard, Improved Disarm, Holy Warrior, Divine Metamagic: Quicken, Quicken, Extra Turn, Leadership, Might Makes Right, Divine Power. I may have one more. I am totally turning 2 domain abilities in for feats. Race: Human. Ok... go
#2 22_Over_7 Mar 21, 2008 1:09:31	Ok... go This must rank pretty high among things that people here hate seeing the most. What, am I being paid to do this for you? I don't even see a ing "thank you" in your post. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=901454 - an Ordained Champion build. Get some spell ideas there.
#3 dakr Mar 21, 2008 8:33:52	I'm with 22_Over_7. Specially given the remark that implies that we never give suggestions that fit the desired theme. It sometimes happens, but not always. I must say, on the other hand, that your character's concept is quite cool. I wouldn't bother with such a high Cha, though. Since you'll have nigh-full caster progression, you will need a better Wis. I'd put a 12-14 on it, get 5 ranks in Know (nobility) and in Bluff for Diplomacy synergy, which should be enough. I wouldn't take Quicken + DMM (quicken) either, because OC eats up both your swift actions and your turn attempts. Combat Expertise is also a bad choice, since it requires Int 13. Besides, your AC is probably going to be pretty high already. Improved Disarm? Come on.
#4 fricot_1 Mar 21, 2008 10:18:01	I don't understand why you have Diehard. I mean, sure, you get the 10 extra hit points out of it, but your level 20. Buy a sword of wrathful healing... or something... or just spontaneous "Heal" yourself. Weapon Focus? Is there a feat that has this as a prerequisite? I mean, its a +1 to your attack. I would rather invest it in another Extra Turning. And if you want to be B.A. at hand-to-hand why not just use DMM:Persist with Divine Power? In other words why not walk in and say "I Win".
#5 dakr Mar 21, 2008 10:25:24	I don't understand why you have Diehard. I mean, sure, you get the 10 extra hit points out of it, but your level 20. Buy a sword of wrathful healing... or something... or just spontaneous "Heal" yourself. Weapon Focus? Is there a feat that has this as a prerequisite? I mean, its a +1 to your attack. I would rather invest it in another Extra Turning. And if you want to be B.A. at hand-to-hand why not just use DMM:Persist with Divine Power? In other words why not walk in and say "I Win". Diehard is a bonus feat from Ordained Champion; Weapon Focus comes from the War domain. DMM: Persist isn't that hot with OC, since you're probably hitting +16 BAB anyway.
#6 22_Over_7 Mar 21, 2008 13:02:53	DMM: Persist isn't that hot with OC, since you're probably hitting +16 BAB anyway. And you can spontaneously cast Quicken'd War domain spells, like Divine Power, so there's really no need.
#7 puck_d-hoffryn Mar 21, 2008 14:32:56	I actually do thank people for helping me. So thank you. I wasn't trying to be bossy, I just usually post stuff on here and get a response along the lines of "Why are you taking 10 levels of cleric! thats stupid, instead go paladin of tyranny and dip into these four random classes" and they completely miss the point. That build for example i was linked to does not help at all. It is for a cleric who takes swordsage and focuses on two weapon fighting and dexterity. None of those feats would help me. I am a strength and tank build. I have just been out of the game for a while so I was looking for suggestions for a third class or prestige class to help augment the build, some spells I may not have heard of, and some nice combat oriented or tyranny oriented feats. Diehard and Weapon Focus were free feats. Ok so Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Divine Metamagic, and Quicken are all stupid. What would be suggested in there place?
#8 Wyvernhand Mar 21, 2008 15:04:13	1 level of Crusader (or 2 feats Martial Study/Martial Stance) would allow you to take levels in Ruby Knight Vindicator. Unfortunately, you run into the fluff concern of RKV dedicated to WeeJas and OC dedicated to Hier/Hex, but if you can get around that, you can get some crazy buff synergy. RKV 7 gives you Divine Impetus, which allows you to spend turn attempts to gain swift actions which allows you to cast your War Domain spells. In fact, you could expend all of your turn attempts and all your 6th+ level spells to cast a VERY large number of flamestrikes in a round, which would be hillarious but rather abusive. Cleric5/Crusader1/RKV9/OC5 (in any order to cherry pick maneuvers) gives you some pretty decent beatdown. You won't get 9th level spells, but you'll have a lot of beat power without them. The ability to buff to full as swift actions bought with Divine Impetus means you go from mediocre to imba in the blink of an eye. Plus, you get some cool Crusader stuff. If you can time it right, you might be able to grab Immortal Fortitude, you'll be a pillar of unkillableness since your fort and will saves will be imba, and you can't die from hp damage.
#9 dakr Mar 22, 2008 14:58:38	In the adaptation section under RKV, there's an option for using Hextor as patron deity. Even with no Divine Impetus abuse this is an awesome class - for your character, even more since it grants 4 skill pts per level. You should also take a look into the Cleric 7 substitution level in CC. That's some powerful lay on hands ability - and the fact that you're not good-aligned doesn't mean anything. Just use it on yourself :P