Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ashern Mar 23, 2010 12:17:27	Hey guys, basically what it says on the tin.  I'm looking for a character that doesn't use magic, that gets hist strength up as high as possible.  The only other restriction is that any race picked must be +0LA.  My group flat bans anything with an adjustment, though anything else is game. So far I'm looking at Orc Barbarian/Eye of Gruumsh/ Frenzied Berzerker/ Berserk.  With a base strength of 18, I'm looking at 24 by level ten.  Rage adds 4, swing blindly adds 4 to that, +6 from frenzy, +6 from Berserk.  Granted I can only do those once a day, but that's what Additional Rage is for.  All together those put me at 44 at my peak... what can I do to make this better?
#2 Senevri Mar 23, 2010 17:19:33	I usually go for Dragon Disciple for at least 4 levels if strength is lacking. I think there are clerical abilities that help, and Complete Champion had some classes which may add to STR momentarily. How do you feel about racial paragon classes? Human Paragon/Orc Paragon could net +4 over 6 levels. Add Dragon Disciple to that, and you get +8 over 10 levels, or a total of + 18 with rage and frenzy,  I think. Minimum investment for Dragon Disciple is 5 levels - 1 sorc, 4 DD.
#3 ah_andras Mar 23, 2010 17:39:03	Do you have Frostburn? Neanderthal Barbarian 8, Primeval 10 (Dire Ape), Warshaper 2. Mid 60's in Str easy (my test build hit 72 w 6 from enhancement) Also get the feat Animal Devotion from Complete Champion a couple times. Endurance* Self-Sufficient* Improved Toughness* Steadfast Determination Animal Devotion x3 * Req by Primeval.
#4 ashern Mar 24, 2010 7:15:18	Wow... That Prestige Class is just ludicrous.  They really had something OP for everyone in Frostburn! Hmm, now that I'm looking at that could you combine that with bear warrrior?  I'm imagining a Barbarian that rages to turn into a bear, and then shifts into a larger Premeval shape...  Hrm.  Tricky, since the bonuses are technically from different sources, but you'd have to sell it.
#5 ashern Mar 24, 2010 8:56:07	Aaaand with some finagling, and a friendly interpretation of the limited wildshape reading of Warshaper's class entry to roll over to nature's warrior... (my DM bought it, but it might be a hard sell normally) Ranger 1/Barbarian 6/Bear Warrior 1/ Primeval 9/warshaper 2/Nature's warrior 1. Strength in the high 60s, con in the mid 40s, NA easily over ten, immunity to crits, and fast healing 1 for the duration of shifting through either source (primeval shifting lasts 9 minutes... so that's 90 rounds worth). Edit: With Barbarian Totem alternate feature, you can pick up pounce.  Also BAB is a "pathetic" +19.
#6 Maat_Mons Mar 24, 2010 10:33:19	Bear form and primeval form really don't stack but... If your DM allows bear form and primeval form to stack, he'll probably let wild shape stack as well. The druidic avenger variant trades an animal companion for rage. Druid 18 lets you wild shape into a dire polar bear, which gives you strength 39. Primal 1 gives you +16 strength (dire boar). Bear warrior 1 gives you +8 strength. A belt of giant's strength +6 and manual of gainful exercise +5 bring the total to 74. Since this ignores your base strength, you are free to pump constitution. Remember that, according to the errata, the constitution change from changing form does not influence HP.
#7 ah_andras Mar 24, 2010 11:38:01	The 'problem' with using a druid for a Primeval build is that the text says that primevals "completely eschew spells". I've used druid as a base before (Druid 8, Ftr 2, Primeval 10) but only to get extra wildshapes that can be burned as Primeval forms, and the loss of spell casting isn't so bad. Also Bear Warrior and Primeval shouldn't stack unless you have BW10 and are using Dire Bear form, except Dire Bear has 12hd and is ineligible for use with Primeval Form. If you are in Primeval Form, you aren't in your Bear form, and so loose the bonus from that. Remember that Primeval has to be a Dire animal, a Dinosaur, or other prehistoric animal of less then 8hd, so the Black bear or Brown bear forms of the BW won't qualify. I like Dire Ape since you retain a bipedal form, have a decent claw claw bite routine, and also have a rend attack if both claws hit.
#8 Maat_Mons Mar 24, 2010 12:56:49	Master of many forms gives you the ability to turn into a greater dusk giant, which has 48 strength, 32 constitution, and 17 natural armor. You may wish to put a level in fist of the forest so you can add your constitution bonus to AC while unarmored.
#9 ashern Mar 24, 2010 18:25:05	Wow, fist of the forest is useful.  Also, you have a point, bear warrior really runs into some rules interpretation problems, so I'll be dropping it.  There's a lot of good stuff to be had, it's just frustrating, since you can't fit everything into twenty levels, at least it doesn't look like it.  If you take druid, you have to delay the other classes which rely on BAB for entry, and even with just master of many forms and warshaper, there aren't quite enough levels to fit in the really good stuff on top of primeval.
#10 phaedrusxy Mar 24, 2010 22:38:37	Wow, fist of the forest is useful.  Also, you have a point, bear warrior really runs into some rules interpretation problems, so I'll be dropping it.  There's a lot of good stuff to be had, it's just frustrating, since you can't fit everything into twenty levels, at least it doesn't look like it.  If you take druid, you have to delay the other classes which rely on BAB for entry, and even with just master of many forms and warshaper, there aren't quite enough levels to fit in the really good stuff on top of primeval. Can you use the wildshape ranger?
#11 ashern Mar 25, 2010 9:38:02	Wow, fist of the forest is useful.  Also, you have a point, bear warrior really runs into some rules interpretation problems, so I'll be dropping it.  There's a lot of good stuff to be had, it's just frustrating, since you can't fit everything into twenty levels, at least it doesn't look like it.  If you take druid, you have to delay the other classes which rely on BAB for entry, and even with just master of many forms and warshaper, there aren't quite enough levels to fit in the really good stuff on top of primeval. Can you use the wildshape ranger? So I can... Varient Ranger 5 Master of Many Forms 10 Primeval 1 Nature's Warrior 1 Warshaper 2 Fist of the Forest 1 Only needs... 7 feats.  Easily managable with a human, or with flaws, so that you can pick up the other bonuses quicker...  But stupid high AC from Con and NA, high str, fast healing, immune to transmutation effects and crits... sweet.