Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ferinuscarnifexvox Mar 14, 2012 20:38:51	I am going to be DM for some upcoming games, and I was wondering if these house rules for character creation seem fair. Character Creation Changes: 1. Players assign the following points to their stats: 18, 17, 15, 15, 10, 8 2. Each character can gains one "1st Level Only" Racial Feat (ex. Able Learner) 3. Each character gains one Birth Feat (ex. Born Under a High Sun) 4. Each character has access to a LA +0,1 Buyout     - If they choose only an LA +0, reward them an additional feat     - If they choose no LA races/templates, reward them with two additional feats 5. Characters can take two flaws to get two more feats Will someone be able to take my small additions to their character creature, and make a monster I'll have to take away from them? The reason I had originally set up these rules are so that newer players won't get crushed, but perhaps it is a bit to much?
#2 salarion Mar 15, 2012 3:19:57	New players wont know how to best take advanatge of their extra feats and older players with just find ways to abuse them for various early entry. At least that's what I would do.
#3 divergence Mar 15, 2012 13:17:46	These aren't really "small" additions to the character creation process,  they can lead to some very powerful character builds.  If this is the feel your going for with your campaign, then these rules should help a great deal with that.   And of course alot of this depends on your gaming group as well, for instance if you roll with lots of heavy optimizers then this will be a nightmare.    Normally, a character gets only 7 feats in 20 levels.   With your changes you can potentially have 6 extra feats at first level.    Thats alot of room for abuse, and pretty hard to not expect atleast some heavy ended characters to appear even from only moderate level players. You mention new players getting "crushed".   Crushed how?  Whats the circumstances behind said crushing, that would lead you to believe that you need to help your newer players out in such a way.   The biggest problem with these rules,  is they dont help new players.... they help ALL players.  So if your problem has anything to do with new and older players playing together, then this isnt going to solve anything.   It may even make things worse.         If i was to run any of these rules, id use 4.  That one seems pretty decent by itself.   One and Two really seem like too much,  id roll them into number 4.  Id just make the feats gained from not taking a level adjusted race have to be birth and racial feats.  Nice and flavorful.    Im not a fan of Flaws at all, they never add anything to a character in my experience and are always taken in min/max fashion. Just my two cents.....
#4 draco1119 Mar 15, 2012 13:56:00	Show These aren't really "small" additions to the character creation process,  they can lead to some very powerful character builds.  If this is the feel your going for with your campaign, then these rules should help a great deal with that.   And of course alot of this depends on your gaming group as well, for instance if you roll with lots of heavy optimizers then this will be a nightmare.    Normally, a character gets only 7 feats in 20 levels.   With your changes you can potentially have 6 extra feats at first level.    Thats alot of room for abuse, and pretty hard to not expect atleast some heavy ended characters to appear even from only moderate level players. You mention new players getting "crushed".   Crushed how?  Whats the circumstances behind said crushing, that would lead you to believe that you need to help your newer players out in such a way.   The biggest problem with these rules,  is they dont help new players.... they help ALL players.  So if your problem has anything to do with new and older players playing together, then this isnt going to solve anything.   It may even make things worse.
#5 Krusk Mar 15, 2012 14:57:24	What do you do for races without racial feats? Also, your PCs are starting with up to 6 extra feats. This is a huge power up, be prepared for people to maximize this. From an optimization standpoint, humans and fighters are getting a debuff. Their unique thing is less good. Do you want to do something to help them out?
#6 salarion Mar 15, 2012 17:22:47	For example you could pull off Conjurer 1/Master Specialist 1/Mindbender 1/Incantatrix 1 by lev four, or you could go incantatrix at 2nd level. If you allow retraining any wizard would be a fool not to go with this build.
#7 Christof_Romulus Apr 05, 2012 2:00:39	I guess the best way to answer that question is with another question:  fair to who? As it has already been mentioned:  if you have brand new players intermixed with old hat players, then this is beyond unfair to the new players.  New players might end up taking feats like Alertness without knowing what they're doing, ultimately leading up to having no prerequisites to a prestige class while still being medeocre, while (as others have mentioned) other players will have all PRC requirements met as well as being set up to be extremely powerful characters all at level 1. The assigned stats you have are, in themselves, too high.  18, 17, 15, 15, 10, 8 quickly changes into 20, 18, 18, 15, 10, 8 when using racial modifiers and the level 4 mod and since most classes only rely on 3 stats to begin with... Level adjust characters are LA for a reason.  Allowing no LA doesn't balance things out (I'm looking at YOU, Drow) but giving other players feats to make up for it doesn't exactaly balance out either. Let's look at this from a level 1 Human fighter's perspective: Str 18, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 8 Feats:  Level 1 Natural - Power attack Human (Racial) - Jotunbrud (Now has powerful build) Human Bonus 1 (no Level Adjust) - Combat Reflexes Human Bonus 2 (no Level Adjust) - Improved Trip Flaw 1 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain (You guessed it!) Flaw 2 - Weapon Focus (because, why not at this point)   Fighter - Combat Expertise So, a typical attack round is going to be touch attacks with a +6 to hit (4 str, 1 base attack, 1 Weapon focus), tripping WITH A +12 BONUS AT LEVEL 1 (4 str, 4 size, 4 improved trip), with secondary attacks at a +10 on successful trips (the preivous +6 with a -4 to their AC for being prone), with average damage around  11 (2d4 + 6).  Up to 4 people per round attempting to approach this character without a reach weapon would be subject to this thanks to combat reflexes.  Using power attack would barely change this formula (+5 to hit, +9 to hit a tripped foe, and average damage becomes 13).  This build is typically something that appears around level 6... all at level 1. Honestly, if you're gaming with new people, I highly suggest only the most basic form of D&D 3.5 - PHB, DMG, MM1, and NO house rules because this really isn't fair.  Once they get better you can start providing them bonuses for no reason.