So, I'm putting together my first 3.5/Pathfinder character (Human Fighter, level 20) just to get a handle on the system, and my AC seems really low. I've got a 22 in Dexterity (Belt of Physical Perfection) and Armor Training 4 with +5 Scale Mail and the Dodge feat. Totted up, my AC is only 28. It seems low to me 'cause I'm a 4e player, but I have no basis for comparison. Is that average? Low? Just right? If it is low, how do I make it higher? Oh, I'm not using a shield because I have a greatsword (is that also not a good idea?)
Okay, several things.
First, welcome to the game.
Second, I'm not intimately familiar with Pathfinder's rules, so all the advice I give here will be standard 3.5. At a broad level they're interchangeable, but there may be a few (and possibly significant) differences in the details.
Third, why is your first character starting out at 20th level? High-level play, regardless of class, is a complicated beast of a game in terms of all the circumstances, options, and numbers you need to juggle in order to just stay alive.
Fourth, your experience with 4e is showing in that you're looking at a single-classed character with minimalistic gear and expecting a competent result. That's realistically only possible with four of the Big Five classes (Wizard, Druid, Cleric, and Archivist; the fifth, Artificer, is kind of mutually exclusive with minimalist gear). Optimization in 3.5 is a bit more complex than in 4e because it involves looking at interaction between multiple classes, interaction between myriad pieces of equipment, and interaction between your classes and your equipment (in addition to the feats and magic). All of these get MUCH more complicated to do at higher levels - not only is the game putting harder challenges against you, but you have more potential choices to make and more interactions to consider between each choice.
Fifth, let's look directly at your AC. I note you're using scale mail. In 3.5, virtually everyone who cares about armor will wear light armor of some sort (the core example is a mithral breastplate) because it doesn't lower your speed. A few will use heavy armor, but these usually have some specific interaction with heavy armor that won't work with light. I can count the number of cases where you might want to consider medium armor on one hand and still have fingers to spare.
Sixth, Frost Fire's entirely right about bonus stacking (although the animated shield is perhaps a bit much). At the barest minimum (i.e. the NPC equipment), high-level characters usually have armor, shield, dexterity, deflection, natural armor, and at least one other bonus type (usually luck or insight through some odd wondrous item), and several of these are separately enhanced through equipment. That's without looking at other gear or buff effects (i.e. I'm only thinking about permanent magic items, not items that cast a buff spell on you), or at non-AC defensive measures (miss chances, damage reduction, immunities, etc). You have a lot to consider.
Seventh, a huge part of your gameplay as a warrior in 3.5 comes from your feats. I can't really emphasize this enough, and I don't really know what you took or why.
Finally, don't worry about skipping out on a shield. The way that melee deals damage in 3.5 is through the Power Attack feat, and that's most effective by far if you're using a two-handed weapon. The greatsword is almost always the best choice in the core books among the martial two-handers. (A few builds will use the falchion, guisarme, or (much rarer) heavy flail or scythe; if you have space for an Exotic Weapon feat, the usual choice is the spiked chain.) I'd be happy to explain what I mean with all of this at a later time; getting to know the intricacies of Power Attack can be a bit overwhelming if you're new to the system and starting at a high level.
Personally, I would suggest switching to a Warblade (Tome of Battle) if possible. Fluffwise they're identical to the fighter, but the class is much better designed - and it's closer to the 4e mentality both in how it plays and in how it works with its gear. (I.e. it has "maneuvers" that are similar to encounter powers, and unlike Fighters, warblades generally need very little gear to remain reasonably competitive. They're also much more forgiving for new players - it's hard to build a bad warblade, and easy to correct if you make a choice you don't like.)
Look through my signature (or this thread) for examples of what I mean. There's quite a few melee builds to show you what the game's like there, and they're all annotated to explain the thought processes at most levels.
This is ignoring a problem, though: AC is expensive. The bare minimum for efficiency is something like level+25. Anything lower than that, and you'll be hit anyways, so it's not worth it. In reality, you want much closer to level+30.
Also? Dodge sucks. Get rid of it. Power attack is where it's at. Also, fighter sucks, and pathfinder sucks worse. Makes everything wrong with 3.5 worse. Just go plain 3.5, it's easier and better. Warblade, as Tempest said, is probably your best bet. And by that I mean it's actually decent.
Sorry to say, but the only source I've got right now is the core rulebook, so I can't use a Warblade. Am I right in assuming that my enhancement bonuses should go up every 4 levels? So at level 4 it's +1, level 8 is +2, level 12 is +3, etc.
In terms of magic items, is it a case of 'buy everything you can afford' or is there some way of determining, 'at level X you need N items'? On that note, are the values on the Wealth by Level table cumulative, or do I only have the amount that it shows for the level?
With Power Attack, I'm assuming a -6 penalty/+18 damage (with a two-handed weapon) at level 20. Is that how the feat works?
Okay, last question (for now): my static damage modifier is at +20 (+10 Strength+5 Enhancement+4 Weapon Spec./Improved Weapon Spec. and a +1 I can't remember right now). I'm guessing this is also very low. What is the standard target number?
Thanks again!
Also, +20 is crap. One should easily be able to have over a +60 damage bonus without even trying, without any exotic items or multipliers. The "standard" at level 20 should be enough to one-shot an enemy every round. 'Cuz, you know, an enemy with 1HP can kill you just as easily as an enemy with full. Your minimum target damage a round at level 20 is 410.
Also, level up bonus isn't enhancement. It's an actual increase in the stat.
With Power Attack, I'm assuming a -6 penalty/+18 damage (with a two-handed weapon) at level 20. Is that how the feat works?
That's how the Pathfinder version works. The 3.5 version is very different.
First, you're a PF fighter, you want Mithral Full Plate +5, Soulfire. You are auto proficient and your speed is not reduced in full armor. That's AC 24.
You want an Animated Large Shield +5. That's now AC 31.
You want a Ring of Protection +5 and an Amulet of Natural Armor +5. that's AC 41.
Your 22 Dex is +6. That's AC 47.
You want Bracers +1 of Heavy Fortification to stop crits.
+5 Defending Armor Spikes is cheese, but see if it's allowed. That'll get you to AC 52, which is extremely high even at level 20 if you are not resorting to polymorph cheese for massive AC bonuses.
Your Dex is fine, your Armor Training will get you most of the bonus. However, you need to see if you can buy inherent bonuses and get your stats up more.
You want the Two Handed PF Fighter archetype, if you are allowed it.
In PF, you have to BUY all this stuff. You should have a GP figure given to you by your DM telling you how much you can buy.
You want an Helm that can give you Mind Blank all day, or, failing that, protection from evil, to stop you from being dominated by the enemy.
Check the Lockdown link in my sig for some ideas on what a high level fighter needs to function. It's a very different game then 4e.
==Aelryinth
@Erudite: What are some good ways to raise my static damage modifier?
These answers have been really helpful so far. Thanks a lot!
Multipliers are cool.
Also, seriously, Pathfinder sucks.
@EruditeApe: Where is the extra 5 coming from in your example? I see 18 (ability score) and 6 (Belt of Physical Perfection?) and 5 from leveling up. Is the extra 5 from the Wish spell? I guess 1 could come from another Ioun stone, but how else can an ability score be raised?
Also, would you elaborate on your 'Pathfinder sucks' statement? (Not arguing, just want to know why/how.)
@EruditeApe: Where is the extra 5 coming from in your example? I see 18 (ability score) and 6 (Belt of Physical Perfection?) and 5 from leveling up. Is the extra 5 from the Wish spell? I guess 1 could come from another Ioun stone, but how else can an ability score be raised?
Stat tome.
Also, would you elaborate on your 'Pathfinder sucks' statement? (Not arguing, just want to know why/how.)
Pathfinder nerfs melee and buffs casters even more. lolcasterwin is one of the core problems with 3.5 anyways. Power Attack is weaker. Every melee option is weaker. It's really generally a bad deal.
While I'm here, EA, I'll also see about compiling a list of questions we've raised about WBL for that guide. Questions that we've asked that you said were easy would be a good place to start, I think, ans I don't mind helping where I can.
Pathfinder nerfs melee and buffs casters even more. lolcasterwin is one of the core problems with 3.5 anyways. Power Attack is weaker. Every melee option is weaker. It's really generally a bad deal.
I'd have to check over the spell details to offer a real opinion on Pathfinder spellcasters, though from what I've browsed occasionally, they seem to have worked on some problematic spells while overlooking others.
Pathfinder nerfs melee and buffs casters even more. lolcasterwin is one of the core problems with 3.5 anyways. Power Attack is weaker. Every melee option is weaker. It's really generally a bad deal.
I'd have to check over the spell details to offer a real opinion on Pathfinder spellcasters, though from what I've browsed occasionally, they seem to have worked on some problematic spells while overlooking others.
Except they really didn't at all. The books are pretty much trahs except for the fact that they give wizards some fancy new toys. I'm especially looking at all that extra abilitiy to wreck the action economy.
If I recall correctly they fixed a lot of the weak core classes (total monk overhaul for example) but didn't address a lot of the diversitty between casters and melee. Sure helping some of the weaker melee out is nice, but it isn't closing that main power gap between caster and melee
Except they really didn't. PF Monk is still trash.
Does the errata of 3.5 address any of these issues? I just ordered the books, so, here's hoping!
Well, it's not Pathfinder, so yes.
If you want to be effective as a "melee" don't even worry about Fighter or Warblade single class. I LOVE a good single class build, don't get me wrong. You'll see in Tempest's sig that most of my builds are inf act single class. I do it for the challenge, more than anything, and sometimes to optimize a big juicy looking class feature that needs some love.
One of your best otpions is to use Barbarian, even if you can't get Complete Champion. The gigantic Str bonus (capping you at a minimum of 42 instead of EA's 34 requirement) will bring you to the forefront of to hit and damage. You're more limited in feat selection than a fighter, but if you don't have a LOT of books that means squat really, your attack bonus is 3 higher, at 20, than a fighter who has Greater Weapon Focus (which you can't take). That 3 AB turns into 6 damage, which beats the 4 damage they get out of specialization. You have more HP/level, you have Damage Reduction /-.
You can trip better than they can because your Str is +4 bonus higher, meaning that even if they go MAD to get Combat Expertise and Improved Trip you're probably still winning the trip off because you didn't have to dump points into Int. If you have a really high point buy and can get Int up to squeeze in Improved Trip as well as using a Spike chain you're doing pretty well.
PF Barbarian has something neat working for it though, Intimidate. It won't work on a lot of creatures, sadly, but the cost to gain serious intimidate ability is basically 1-3 feats, 1-2 Rage powers, over your first 8 levels. If you get all these things online, you can in one turn render all opponents in 30' shaken, and the next render them panicked. OR if fighting fewer opponents than that action cost would be worth it to use, simply make a full attack and go with a free action intimidate, and in the following round, if it looks like a good idea cause the poor sap to become panicked.
Intimdating Glare, Terrifying Howl are your rage powers. Intimidating Prowess, Weapon Focus, and Dazzling Display are the key feats. You can also get Bullying Blow or Cornugon Smash in order to cause single target intimidation without using actions other than attacking.
Damage is neat, and AC is comforting. At the end of the day though, not getting attacked beats getting missed every time. Tripping and panicking oppents works well for melee.
Except they really didn't at all. The books are pretty much trahs except for the fact that they give wizards some fancy new toys. I'm especially looking at all that extra abilitiy to wreck the action economy.
It's been a while since I looked, and shapechange is the only spell I remember offhand.
Except they really didn't. PF Monk is still trash.
Hmm, they really don't seem to have done much. It's on the sort of level I had for my Spirit Monk upgrade, but I was deliberately building on the original structure to retain compatability.
Where I favoured seeing invisible/ethereal, flash-stepping, Wis to attacks, and a move-attack halfbreed with mobile flurry, they appear to have preferred jumping, small ki boosts, the combat maneuver bonus, and Stunning Fist options.
Are things like Trip, Stagger, Blind, etc. worth putting resources into? I guess it depends on the purpose of the build, but in general, how powerful are these added effects?
Not at all. They're weak. Especially so if you don't know what you're doing.
As I've said, specialize. It's the only way to be good at anything.
But you shouldn't think of any one of them as more than a means to an end, and they're all about controlling and limiting your opponents. They're tools that you might use to handle your enemies, but don't spend more effort on getting them than the return merits.
For example, if you've got tripping set up as a defense against uberchargers (depending on exact rulings and application), that's fine, as long as you didn't devote too much of your character build to it.
Seriously, however, you probably want to play a barbarian if you can.
The option of getting SUperstition to boost all your saves, Pounce, Strength Surge to help with special manuvers, scaling DR, Str/con bonus from rage, the ability to sunder any spell, and Robilar's Gambit in the Come and Get Me ability, as well as auto scaling dodge or nat AC bonuses if you like, means the barbarian tends to totally outclass the fighter in terms of versatility, and is comparable on normal power.
And unless you're playing a game where you can buy off the TH penalty of Power attack (i.e. with Shock Trooper), or arrange massive unrealistic To Hit bonuses, the PF Power attack is actually better then 3.5, because you get more damage for less of a penalty. The only way 3.5 is better is if you can basically buy off the miss penalty with every blow.
The whole polymorph chain was nerfed, and a lot of other problem spells were addressed, especially a lot of save or dies. Too, many of the most abused spells in 3.5 don't exist in PF, which is also a big help...and things like the stacking cleric spells that made clerics fight better then fighters don't stack any more, either.
==Aelryinth
There's a lot of neat ways to work around the small downside to Shock Trooper, even if you don't get to kill your opponent before they can hit you.
It's a powerful rocket. But it can be blocked or misdirected. Not easily, and not all that commonly, but it can.
Feats are less powerful then class features. Thus, feats as class features suckeths.
In 3.5, tons of dead levels. In Pathfinder, Bravery is useless, and Armor Training is only maybe good.
Fighters have a poor will save. Without something to overcome this, they get preyed on in 3.5 with this.
Fighters have low skill point totals. For a completely non-magical class devoted to training, training and more training, this is deplorable. Their skill list is also poor.
Melee in 3.5 has the general problem of not getting a full attack, or multiple attacks, when they move. This is why archers are so powerful...they don't have to move, and can get tons of full attacks and really shine. This is why Pounce is so powerful, or the ability to make swift/immediate action teleports...you can move and make full attacks. At higher levels it's almost impossible to stop a charge or full attack...the combo of flying, true sight and/or porting is really hard to withstand.
Valorous is from complete champion, not Oriental Adventures. Doubles your damage on a charge attack (stacking normally).
And yes, you got Shock Trooper exactly. At 6th level where it kicks in, if you've got a Valorous Weapon with Leap Attack, you're going to be doing a minimum of 50-60 points when you attack, per attack, which will wipe anything CR5 or less right off the bat. Two attacks will kill anything under CR7, if they both hit. Kinda don't have to worry about AC from something twitching in two parts on the ground.
==Aelryinth
The problems with fighters specifically are:
Feats are less powerful then class features. Thus, feats as class features suckeths.
In 3.5, tons of dead levels. In Pathfinder, Bravery is useless, and Armor Training is only maybe good.
Fighters have a poor will save. Without something to overcome this, they get preyed on in 3.5 with this.
Fighters have low skill point totals. For a completely non-magical class devoted to training, training and more training, this is deplorable. Their skill list is also poor.
While I don't disagree, the thing I'd say with feats isn't so much that they're less powerful than class features (feats like Leadership can even be more powerful than entire characters), but that the fighter class goes to 20th level, while feats rarely get anywhere near it.
The fighter gets bonus feats as his primary high-level class feature, but there are almost no feats designed for high level (Weapon Supremacy is the highest one I remember offhand, and it's pretty much alone up there).
Pathfinder has a few more, I think, but you're generally relying on specific synergies from lower-level feats, instead of having the flexibility of combining higher-level effects in interesting ways (as you might with spells).
I guess moreso, a feat that has an obvious bonus to "that thing you do" verses one that can provide a more powerful but less obvious bonus. Example being Combat Reflexes instead of Weapon Focus in a charager build. Weapon focus gives +1 to hit, obviously that's good when you want to hit things. Combat Reflexes can let you hit things again though, and if you've got reach maybe do it before they might hit you, preventing them from hitting you at all.
Again, thanks for all the advice/discussion. It's really helpful. I've seen mentioned several times the importance of a multiplier. What is that, exactly? I'm guessing it's an enchantment/feat/alternate class feature that lets you roll damage over and over again. Can you give me some specific examples? And are any available in the PHB1?
It's just what it sounds like on a really basic level; anything that multiplies your damage. Some such effects are considered real multipliers by the game (like x2 critical hits), while others just provide an equivalent result (like attacking twice).
Part of what has been mentioned has been about Power Attack, which (under 3.5 rules) effectively applies damage increases as a multiple of the amount you subtract from your attack roll (or AC if using the Shock Trooper feat's heedless charge). Normally, that's x1 for one-handed wielding and x2 for two-handed wielding, though things like Leap Attack increase the effective multipliers, resulting in an increased return on damage for the exchange. The Pathfinder version of Power Attack is much more strictly limited.
EDIT: Ninja on you, Draco.
Valorous is from complete champion, not Oriental Adventures.
No, it's from Unapproachable East.
At level 6, if you fight an EL 9 that's okay, if it's your only required encounter for the day basically. Which could mean 2 CR 6's and a CR 5, for example. You won't kill them all in a single charge EA, I don't care how cool you are.
Why not? Whirling Frenzy is kickass.
Having options that help keep you alive, by avoiding some or all of your opponents retaliating is a good idea.
Not if it detracts from your killing power .
Specialization is good, leaving available options on the table to take something weak that adds to what you specialize in rather than something really strong that doesn't is just dumb.
Incorrect. Combat Reflexes sucks on a charger. Period. So does Weapon Focus, but I'd take WF any day.
At level 6, if you fight an EL 9 that's okay, if it's your only required encounter for the day basically. Which could mean 2 CR 6's and a CR 5, for example. You won't kill them all in a single charge EA, I don't care how cool you are.
Why not? Whirling Frenzy is kickass.
All they have to do is be standing a short distance apart; it doesn't matter how many attacks you've got if you can't reach them.
Having options that help keep you alive, by avoiding some or all of your opponents retaliating is a good idea.
Not if it detracts from your killing power .
That depends on whether or not you already have enough killing power to get the job done. If you can already smash the opposition easily, improving in other areas is better.
Combat Reflexes sucks on a charger. Period. So does Weapon Focus, but I'd take WF any day.
I'd expect Combat Reflexes on a charger to be insurance against losing initiative to another charger. It's easy enough to walk around with something like a guisarme out for tripping attackers.
At level 6, if you fight an EL 9 that's okay, if it's your only required encounter for the day basically. Which could mean 2 CR 6's and a CR 5, for example. You won't kill them all in a single charge EA, I don't care how cool you are.
Why not? Whirling Frenzy is kickass.
All they have to do is be standing a short distance apart; it doesn't matter how many attacks you've got if you can't reach them.
If you can't reach them, you're not trying.
Having options that help keep you alive, by avoiding some or all of your opponents retaliating is a good idea.
Not if it detracts from your killing power .
That depends on whether or not you already have enough killing power to get the job done. If you can already smash the opposition easily, improving in other areas is better.
There is no such thing as overkill, only "open fire" and "I need to reload."
Combat Reflexes sucks on a charger. Period. So does Weapon Focus, but I'd take WF any day.
I'd expect Combat Reflexes on a charger to be insurance against losing initiative to another charger. It's easy enough to walk around with something like a guisarme out for tripping attackers.
If you lose initiative, then you aren't trying. Or your casters really aren't doing their job.
So, it seems like melee characters prefer charging in 3.5. Is that the most effective way to deal damage, or can/should full attacks be utilized for combat as well? What do you all prefer?
It depends on what you've got available, since charging is exemplified by the ubercharger; a character whose massive assault when charging aims to drop the opponent in a single round of attacks.
This will usually combine a base method to increase attack damage (like Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper), with a means to deliver multiple attacks while charging (like the barbarian alternative class feature that grants pounce). The result is an effective base attack further multiplied by multiple hits to deal devastating amounts of damage.
However, because you're charging, it's vulnerable to things that can interfere with a charge.
If you can't reach them, you're not trying.
True, you might be using a greatsword.
It's much easier for enemies to stand a little ways apart than it is to arrange a charge that will work on all of them.
There is no such thing as overkill, only "open fire" and "I need to reload."
There is if you're spending character resources on overkill when you could protect your vulnerabilities, or even make yourself more than a one-trick pony.
If you lose initiative, then you aren't trying. Or your casters really aren't doing their job.
Or the other side isn't comprised entirely of training dummies.
So, it seems like melee characters prefer charging in 3.5. Is that the most effective way to deal damage, or can/should full attacks be utilized for combat as well? What do you all prefer?
Complete Champion gave barbarians pounce at level 1. This means everyone has access to full attacks on charge.
And it's really pathetically easy to do thousands a round at high levels with a charge.
If you can't reach them, you're not trying.
True, you might be using a greatsword.
It's much easier for enemies to stand a little ways apart than it is to arrange a charge that will work on all of them.
Or you could have some free-action movement. Or extra actions. Or you could be Large. Or really a lot of things. It's pretty easy.
There is no such thing as overkill, only "open fire" and "I need to reload."
There is if you're spending character resources on overkill when you could protect your vulnerabilities, or even make yourself more than a one-trick pony.
Wrong. Overkill is insurance.
If you lose initiative, then you aren't trying. Or your casters really aren't doing their job.
Or the other side isn't comprised entirely of training dummies.
...You do realize that people have +11 initiative bonuses through WBL vefore their fourth attack. Initiative is cheap. Or you could, you know, have a caster who doesn't suck. Ocular Celerity is pretty pro, and that's just the beginning.
Or you could have some free-action movement. Or extra actions. Or you could be Large.
And most of those options mess up your nice charging action.
Reach from size can help, but the restrictions of charging make it only occasionally useful (given your stop point), and without the doubling from a reach weapon, you're still relatively easy to avoid in terms of area covered.
Overkill is insurance.
So is covering other options, and overkill won't help you if you hit a defense that more damage.
...You do realize that people have +11 initiative bonuses through WBL vefore their fourth attack. Initiative is cheap. Or you could, you know, have a caster who doesn't suck. Ocular Celerity is pretty pro, and that's just the beginning.
And that applies to both sides of the equation.
Or you could have some free-action movement. Or extra actions. Or you could be Large.
And most of those options mess up your nice charging action.
Not really.
Reach from size can help, but the restrictions of charging make it only occasionally useful (given your stop point), and without the doubling from a reach weapon, you're still relatively easy to avoid in terms of area covered.
Then you really aren't trying.
Overkill is insurance.
So is covering other options, and overkill won't help you if you hit a defense that more damage.
Wrong. Defense through feats is super lulz, and and overkill is defense against a CR+fartoomuch monster.
...You do realize that people have +11 initiative bonuses through WBL vefore their fourth attack. Initiative is cheap. Or you could, you know, have a caster who doesn't suck. Ocular Celerity is pretty pro, and that's just the beginning.
And that applies to both sides of the equation.
#doesntknowaboutnpcwbltable.
Also, is there any sort of CO etiquette about mixing PF and D&D feats? 'Cause there are a few interesting feats I'd like to use (Improved Critical, Vital Strike).
Remember that PF feats are balanced on their own paradigm, not on adding 3.5 feats to the mix. Neither system is geared to compensate for broken combos in the other one.
==Aelryinth
It depends what you're trying to build. If you're going for a generalist approach, then I would say your first choices should be Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, and Magic Item Compendium. I would give give different advice if you were looking to do something specific.
Seconded.
Or you could have some free-action movement. Or extra actions. Or you could be Large.
And most of those options mess up your nice charging action.
Not really.
Yes, really. The most practical are things like the belt of battle, where you might be able to charge again (you still break your initial charge, though). Size looks nice on the surface, but you're either charging a more central foe (which often clashes with the need for a clear path), or you stop as soon as you reach a closer one, leaving others out of reach.
Reach from size can help, but the restrictions of charging make it only occasionally useful (given your stop point), and without the doubling from a reach weapon, you're still relatively easy to avoid in terms of area covered.
Then you really aren't trying.
You'd just be wasting effort on being even bigger when a reach weapon does the job far more efficiently and also allows a larger area overall.
Overkill is insurance.
So is covering other options, and overkill won't help you if you hit a defense that more damage.
Wrong. Defense through feats is super lulz, and and overkill is defense against a CR+fartoomuch monster.
Defense through feats is better than needless overkill through feats; a"CR+fartoomuch monster" is likely to kill you before you get close, since having more hit points isn't its only advantage, or has ways of making the addition of more damage irrelevant. A big monster with Combat Reflexes and even a token interest in defending itself can simply knock you flat.
#doesntknowaboutnpcwbltable.
Initiative is cheap, remember? It's easy for an NPC to be competitive, even if they're not quite cutting edge.
It depends what you're trying to build. If you're going for a generalist approach, then I would say your first choices should be Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, and Magic Item Compendium. I would give give different advice if you were looking to do something specific.
Well, the truth is, I still don't know what all is possible within the system. So, as of now I'm not looking for anything specific. Just a pool of resources to draw from and maybe find some inspiration therein.
Once per encounter. SNB and IF are the flat-footed gifts that keep on giving.
Wow, thanks, I completly forgot that part
Oops