How did you turn a fighter into a caster, again? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How did you turn a fighter into a caster, again?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Senevri
Jun 07, 2009 17:24:04 The Other DM mentioned something like, "How about a game where the only class is the Fighter?"

I kept my face impassive, despite the cold sweat suddenly pushing through.

Fortunately, I recalled there were ways around this, just not what they were.

So, the challenge: Can you turn a non-caster into a caster, without using caster classes?

Let's break it down:

1. Can you do it in some way, that is useful? (beyond picking a feat giving few cantrip SLAs)
2. Can you make them qualify for reserve feats?
3. Can you make them qualify for casting prestige classes?
- easiest way: some divine prcs only require turn undead - can you get that withot taking a level in a casting class?
4. Can you make them cast spells, either prepared or spontaneous?
5. Can you do it in E6?

So... Thoughts? Ideas?
#2
SwordDisciple
Jun 07, 2009 17:33:57 I take it the Fighter is the only class, not warrior types? Eg, TOB is out?
#3
altpersona
Jun 07, 2009 17:42:15 well, getting full casters, like 9th lvl spells thats tricky.

for clerics

there is a prc that gives 8? lvl spells.. its a paladin esqe prc.. i forget its name..

any whoo..

core, blackguard and assassin grant casting..

then we have the suel anarchists...

really, the paladin type thing is the only one i know of to get 'real' casting..

fighter6/bg1/a1/mt6/X6, its pretty MAD, but at least its evil...

cant do it in E6 i think..

well, fighter5/a1 works, but yuck..
#4
jameswilliamogle
Jun 07, 2009 17:55:36 Racial spellcasting is the easiest way to do this stuff.

Sylph or Phaerrim.

Phaerimm is the only way in E6 that I know of.

But, you essentially get a gish.
#5
kell_kheraptis
Jun 07, 2009 18:02:54
Racial spellcasting is the easiest way to do this stuff.

Sylph or Phaerrim.

Phaerimm is the only way in E6 that I know of.

But, you essentially get a gish.

Bozak ftw.
#6
phaedrusxy
Jun 07, 2009 18:09:22 I remember a thread where there were some insane shenanigans pulled that let a fighter (yes the class) actually cast spells. I can't remember exactly how it worked, though. I think they did something crazy like took one of the feats that lets you cast cantrips, Sanctum Spell, and then Precocious Apprentice. At that point, you have 3rd level spells, and can qualify for caster PrCs, some of which grant their own casting, or add spells to your (non-existant) spell list.
#7
Senevri
Jun 07, 2009 18:10:56
I take it the Fighter is the only class, not warrior types? Eg, TOB is out?

I would presume so. Blade Magic, while neat, is not casting, anyway - or were you intending to use the rare (SU) maneuvers somehow?
But, it is entirely possible I'd retain feat access.
Racial...
Ah, Gnomes have 0th and 1st SLAs. But how would one expand from there? What do they qualify for?

Multiclassing into a class with it's own spellcasting is outside the scope, I would argue.

PhaedrusXY, I recall that thread, but I think it's pruned. Also, it had some questionable content.
This reminds me of how Wiz 7/Nar DB could qualify for Ultimate Magus (or Nar DB, in general for any requiring 1st level arcane/spontaneous arcane casting) via expanded spell list(say, via HoH dream magic) and extra spell...
#8
dr_rocktopus
Jun 07, 2009 18:38:42 Magical Training is my normal starting place for really eccentric endeavors like this.
However, divine crusader, in Comp Div, will give you a domain worth of spells at accelerated casting. Not a bad deal if that domain is celerity or time.
You can then add to it normally. Not sure you can qual with straight fighter.
#9
Senevri
Jun 07, 2009 18:46:34 Yes, well... but Divine Crusader, Suel Arcanamach, Death Delver etc, while sweet in their own way, just come out and GIVE you spellcasting.

Too, um, easy? Also not E6 compatible.

Racial spellcasting, isn't that bound to Racial HD usually, though?
#10
altpersona
Jun 07, 2009 19:14:00 divine champ is the one i was thinking of..

the trick there is adding domains.. but its not e6 for sure.. i think its bab 8 req..
#11
Senevri
Jun 07, 2009 19:22:20 IIRC, you could access it at l11 earliest. It's nice, combined with a heavily expanded list, and an optimization exercise target on it's own. It's still a bit outside the scope of making a caster out of a fighter, since it relies on getting a spell list elsewhere. You could as well go Assassin 5/Bard 1/SubChord, to get arcane casting...

Or for fuller BAB, Suel/Battle Howler/Subchord/Abchamp or something like that for 19 BAB and 9th casting... but that's just a Gish.

What about qualifying for reserve feats? That would be a nice caster-like add-on for a fighter - or a Fighter, for that matter.
#12
dandu
Jun 07, 2009 19:34:55 How about Fighter/Suel Aranamach/Abjurant Champion?
#13
sofawall
Jun 07, 2009 20:21:54
the only class is the Fighter

Yeah... Those classes don't look like fighters.
#14
frostwolf
Jun 07, 2009 20:28:22 What about making use of Spellfire? (Magic of Faerun, page 17)
#15
emy
Jun 07, 2009 20:40:14 Phrenic Whisper Gnome with Magic in the Blood?

oh, for e6? hmmm.
#16
jameswilliamogle
Jun 07, 2009 22:03:47
Racial spellcasting, isn't that bound to Racial HD usually, though?

They should be, but aren't. Just HD.
#17
jameswilliamogle
Jun 07, 2009 22:04:53
Phrenic Whisper Gnome with Magic in the Blood?

oh, for e6? hmmm.

Or 1/2 Fey, 1/2 Vampire, etc... They all work in E6, just not as well.
#18
death_isthe_begining
Jun 08, 2009 3:21:33 It's not a Fighter but the Ghaele monster class gives full Cleric casting progression until 14th level(Savage Species page 171-173).
Thats all I can find.
#19
Senevri
Jun 08, 2009 4:47:45 Ghaele is nice. And 3.0. And not the Fighter class.
Spellfire is not a bad idea, if we played in FR.

Hmph. Can I at least get metamagic spell trigger without levels in a caster class?
#20
tytalus
Jun 08, 2009 7:37:58 Half-Fey anything with Magic in the Blood. Makes you a pretty decent enchanter.

Or 1/2 Fey, 1/2 Vampire, etc... They all work in E6, just not as well.

Half-Fey works pretty well. The ability bonuses help offset the lower pointbuy due to the LA, and the qualities gained are very useful.
#21
humankyle
Jun 08, 2009 9:08:25 Wouldn't the easiest, and cheesiest way be to use a loredrake dragonwrought kobold with that template from dragonlance that added another sorcerer level? With the kobold ritual that adds another sorcerer level you can pretend to be a fourth level sorcerer instead of a fighter.

If I remember right Kobolds had some decent fighter substitution levels.

A lot of the fighter vs. wizard threads broke down by having the fighter boost his use magic device check and just use items to cast spells you could do that too.
#22
Senevri
Jun 08, 2009 9:22:21
Prerequisites: Only kobolds of 6 Hit Dice or more, sorcerer level 1st, who have successfully completed the Draconic Rite of Passage, and taken Draconic Reservoir (1) can undergo the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. A kobold requires no one else to perform the rite; it is a solitary activity.

Unless Loredrake does something crazy, I doubt I could take it anyway. And with very high probability no Loredrake at all.
Still, clever. If Loredrake gives you actual casting, instead of just CL increase, it qualifies you full-BAB to quite a few PrCs, and will probably enable a BAB 20 Gish.

(Say, Jade Phoenix + Abchamp)
#23
emy
Jun 08, 2009 16:42:16
Half-Fey anything with Magic in the Blood. Makes you a pretty decent enchanter.

w/Dragon magazine material
Half-Fey Unseelie Fey Magic-blooded Whisper Gnome Fighter 4 (ECL 6)
With feat: Magic in the Blood
Charm person at will
Silence 3/day
Ghost sound 3/day
Mage hand 3/day
Message 3/day
Hypnotism 3/day
Detect law 3/day
Detect magic 3/day
Read magic 3/day
Sleep or enthrall 3/day
Hideous laughter or suggestion 3/day
Faerie fire or glitterdust 3/day
Protection from law 3/day
Magic aura (nonmagical only) 3/day and magic aura (magical only) 3/day (or, depending on how you convert from 3.0, simply magic aura 3/day or 6/day. I'm not sure how that is supposed to work.)
Winter Chill (Su): -Cha to saves of nearby creatures. Always active. (to help land suggestion, sleep, glitterdust, and similar spells that allow a save.)

I believe they're all Cha based. This character gets the following racial ability modifiers: -4 str, +6 dex, -2 con, +0 wis +6 cha.

The downside: there's a chance this character won't have eyes. This may be avoidable by applying the Half-Fey template after the Unseelie Fey template, though.

Unless Loredrake does something crazy, I doubt I could take it anyway. And with very high probability no Loredrake at all.
Still, clever. If Loredrake gives you actual casting, instead of just CL increase, it qualifies you full-BAB to quite a few PrCs, and will probably enable a BAB 20 Gish.

(Say, Jade Phoenix + Abchamp)

The White Dragonspawn template grants casting as a Sorcerer 1. It comes with a pretty big downside, but with LA buyoff, it would let a Dragonwrought Loredrake White Dragonspawn Kobold Fighter 6 perform the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and cast as a level 4 sorcerer (1 white dragonspawn + 2 loredrake + 1 Greater Draconic Rite of Passage). That's enough for second level spells, at least.
#24
Senevri
Jun 09, 2009 1:31:57 That... is pretty cool, actually.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Senevri Jun 07, 2009 17:24:04	The Other DM mentioned something like, "How about a game where the only class is the Fighter?" I kept my face impassive, despite the cold sweat suddenly pushing through. Fortunately, I recalled there were ways around this, just not what they were. So, the challenge: Can you turn a non-caster into a caster, without using caster classes? Let's break it down: 1. Can you do it in some way, that is useful? (beyond picking a feat giving few cantrip SLAs) 2. Can you make them qualify for reserve feats? 3. Can you make them qualify for casting prestige classes? - easiest way: some divine prcs only require turn undead - can you get that withot taking a level in a casting class? 4. Can you make them cast spells, either prepared or spontaneous? 5. Can you do it in E6? So... Thoughts? Ideas?
#2 SwordDisciple Jun 07, 2009 17:33:57	I take it the Fighter is the only class, not warrior types? Eg, TOB is out?
#3 altpersona Jun 07, 2009 17:42:15	well, getting full casters, like 9th lvl spells thats tricky. for clerics there is a prc that gives 8? lvl spells.. its a paladin esqe prc.. i forget its name.. any whoo.. core, blackguard and assassin grant casting.. then we have the suel anarchists... really, the paladin type thing is the only one i know of to get 'real' casting.. fighter6/bg1/a1/mt6/X6, its pretty MAD, but at least its evil... cant do it in E6 i think.. well, fighter5/a1 works, but yuck..
#4 jameswilliamogle Jun 07, 2009 17:55:36	Racial spellcasting is the easiest way to do this stuff. Sylph or Phaerrim. Phaerimm is the only way in E6 that I know of. But, you essentially get a gish.
#5 kell_kheraptis Jun 07, 2009 18:02:54	Racial spellcasting is the easiest way to do this stuff. Sylph or Phaerrim. Phaerimm is the only way in E6 that I know of. But, you essentially get a gish. Bozak ftw.
#6 phaedrusxy Jun 07, 2009 18:09:22	I remember a thread where there were some insane shenanigans pulled that let a fighter (yes the class) actually cast spells. I can't remember exactly how it worked, though. I think they did something crazy like took one of the feats that lets you cast cantrips, Sanctum Spell, and then Precocious Apprentice. At that point, you have 3rd level spells, and can qualify for caster PrCs, some of which grant their own casting, or add spells to your (non-existant) spell list.
#7 Senevri Jun 07, 2009 18:10:56	I take it the Fighter is the only class, not warrior types? Eg, TOB is out? I would presume so. Blade Magic, while neat, is not casting, anyway - or were you intending to use the rare (SU) maneuvers somehow? But, it is entirely possible I'd retain feat access. Racial... Ah, Gnomes have 0th and 1st SLAs. But how would one expand from there? What do they qualify for? Multiclassing into a class with it's own spellcasting is outside the scope, I would argue. PhaedrusXY, I recall that thread, but I think it's pruned. Also, it had some questionable content. This reminds me of how Wiz 7/Nar DB could qualify for Ultimate Magus (or Nar DB, in general for any requiring 1st level arcane/spontaneous arcane casting) via expanded spell list(say, via HoH dream magic) and extra spell...
#8 dr_rocktopus Jun 07, 2009 18:38:42	Magical Training is my normal starting place for really eccentric endeavors like this. However, divine crusader, in Comp Div, will give you a domain worth of spells at accelerated casting. Not a bad deal if that domain is celerity or time. You can then add to it normally. Not sure you can qual with straight fighter.
#9 Senevri Jun 07, 2009 18:46:34	Yes, well... but Divine Crusader, Suel Arcanamach, Death Delver etc, while sweet in their own way, just come out and GIVE you spellcasting. Too, um, easy? Also not E6 compatible. Racial spellcasting, isn't that bound to Racial HD usually, though?
#10 altpersona Jun 07, 2009 19:14:00	divine champ is the one i was thinking of.. the trick there is adding domains.. but its not e6 for sure.. i think its bab 8 req..
#11 Senevri Jun 07, 2009 19:22:20	IIRC, you could access it at l11 earliest. It's nice, combined with a heavily expanded list, and an optimization exercise target on it's own. It's still a bit outside the scope of making a caster out of a fighter, since it relies on getting a spell list elsewhere. You could as well go Assassin 5/Bard 1/SubChord, to get arcane casting... Or for fuller BAB, Suel/Battle Howler/Subchord/Abchamp or something like that for 19 BAB and 9th casting... but that's just a Gish. What about qualifying for reserve feats? That would be a nice caster-like add-on for a fighter - or a Fighter, for that matter.
#12 dandu Jun 07, 2009 19:34:55	How about Fighter/Suel Aranamach/Abjurant Champion?
#13 sofawall Jun 07, 2009 20:21:54	the only class is the Fighter Yeah... Those classes don't look like fighters.
#14 frostwolf Jun 07, 2009 20:28:22	What about making use of Spellfire? (Magic of Faerun, page 17)
#15 emy Jun 07, 2009 20:40:14	Phrenic Whisper Gnome with Magic in the Blood? oh, for e6? hmmm.
#16 jameswilliamogle Jun 07, 2009 22:03:47	Racial spellcasting, isn't that bound to Racial HD usually, though? They should be, but aren't. Just HD.
#17 jameswilliamogle Jun 07, 2009 22:04:53	Phrenic Whisper Gnome with Magic in the Blood? oh, for e6? hmmm. Or 1/2 Fey, 1/2 Vampire, etc... They all work in E6, just not as well.
#18 death_isthe_begining Jun 08, 2009 3:21:33	It's not a Fighter but the Ghaele monster class gives full Cleric casting progression until 14th level(Savage Species page 171-173). Thats all I can find.
#19 Senevri Jun 08, 2009 4:47:45	Ghaele is nice. And 3.0. And not the Fighter class. Spellfire is not a bad idea, if we played in FR. Hmph. Can I at least get metamagic spell trigger without levels in a caster class?
#20 tytalus Jun 08, 2009 7:37:58	Half-Fey anything with Magic in the Blood. Makes you a pretty decent enchanter. Or 1/2 Fey, 1/2 Vampire, etc... They all work in E6, just not as well. Half-Fey works pretty well. The ability bonuses help offset the lower pointbuy due to the LA, and the qualities gained are very useful.
#21 humankyle Jun 08, 2009 9:08:25	Wouldn't the easiest, and cheesiest way be to use a loredrake dragonwrought kobold with that template from dragonlance that added another sorcerer level? With the kobold ritual that adds another sorcerer level you can pretend to be a fourth level sorcerer instead of a fighter. If I remember right Kobolds had some decent fighter substitution levels. A lot of the fighter vs. wizard threads broke down by having the fighter boost his use magic device check and just use items to cast spells you could do that too.
#22 Senevri Jun 08, 2009 9:22:21	Prerequisites: Only kobolds of 6 Hit Dice or more, sorcerer level 1st, who have successfully completed the Draconic Rite of Passage, and taken Draconic Reservoir (1) can undergo the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. A kobold requires no one else to perform the rite; it is a solitary activity. Unless Loredrake does something crazy, I doubt I could take it anyway. And with very high probability no Loredrake at all. Still, clever. If Loredrake gives you actual casting, instead of just CL increase, it qualifies you full-BAB to quite a few PrCs, and will probably enable a BAB 20 Gish. (Say, Jade Phoenix + Abchamp)
#23 emy Jun 08, 2009 16:42:16	Half-Fey anything with Magic in the Blood. Makes you a pretty decent enchanter. w/Dragon magazine material Half-Fey Unseelie Fey Magic-blooded Whisper Gnome Fighter 4 (ECL 6) With feat: Magic in the Blood Charm person at will Silence 3/day Ghost sound 3/day Mage hand 3/day Message 3/day Hypnotism 3/day Detect law 3/day Detect magic 3/day Read magic 3/day Sleep or enthrall 3/day Hideous laughter or suggestion 3/day Faerie fire or glitterdust 3/day Protection from law 3/day Magic aura (nonmagical only) 3/day and magic aura (magical only) 3/day (or, depending on how you convert from 3.0, simply magic aura 3/day or 6/day. I'm not sure how that is supposed to work.) Winter Chill (Su): -Cha to saves of nearby creatures. Always active. (to help land suggestion, sleep, glitterdust, and similar spells that allow a save.) I believe they're all Cha based. This character gets the following racial ability modifiers: -4 str, +6 dex, -2 con, +0 wis +6 cha. The downside: there's a chance this character won't have eyes. This may be avoidable by applying the Half-Fey template after the Unseelie Fey template, though. Unless Loredrake does something crazy, I doubt I could take it anyway. And with very high probability no Loredrake at all. Still, clever. If Loredrake gives you actual casting, instead of just CL increase, it qualifies you full-BAB to quite a few PrCs, and will probably enable a BAB 20 Gish. (Say, Jade Phoenix + Abchamp) The White Dragonspawn template grants casting as a Sorcerer 1. It comes with a pretty big downside, but with LA buyoff, it would let a Dragonwrought Loredrake White Dragonspawn Kobold Fighter 6 perform the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and cast as a level 4 sorcerer (1 white dragonspawn + 2 loredrake + 1 Greater Draconic Rite of Passage). That's enough for second level spells, at least.
#24 Senevri Jun 09, 2009 1:31:57	That... is pretty cool, actually.