Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 idontmuchcareforit Nov 30, 2008 14:13:33	My party has a druid, a cleric, a warlock, and a wizard. 4 full casters The druid and the cleric can tank but how do we find traps???
#2 tshern Nov 30, 2008 14:16:52	Cast Find traps?
#3 kurashu Nov 30, 2008 14:21:49	Or get the wizard's unseen servant to walk down the hallway. And then the warlock can blast it.
#4 hezor Nov 30, 2008 14:31:01	Summon celestial monkeys for literal trap-monkeys. They will hate you, but well... ;)
#5 pyro_azer Nov 30, 2008 14:49:25	Summon monster 1 Summon undead 1 Summon natures ally 1 unseen servent Bag of tricks (any)
#6 _v_ Nov 30, 2008 15:30:40	Or have the druid walk ~30 ft ahead and blunder into them. Or buy/catch/breed some animals specifically for the purpose of setting off traps.
#7 hezor Nov 30, 2008 15:49:54	Enslave some commoners, tie them to a 11ft pole and make them walk corridors before you go in.
#8 jameswilliamogle Nov 30, 2008 16:31:06	Stonecunning allows one to auto-search stone traps or unusual stonework (such as the stonework used around a trap), including traps which require >20 DC (ie, Stonecunning = trapfinding for earthen / stone settings). In my experience, traps are 90% likely to be set in stone (aquatic campaigns obviously don't apply there). This won't let you disable it, but its a start for finding them. Wizards have Search as a class skill. Detect Magic is one of the least permanencable spells, and FAQ RAW can find any magical trap's auras (hint: if there's magic, concentrate for a few rounds; if its abjuration or evocation, beware). Detect Magic can beat magical traps, or you can teleport past them, etc. Summon Monster spells or some of the reserve feats can blow up mundane traps from a distance (Summon Elemental is particularly useful for this). Your Wizard should be a Dwarf to cover the role, but its only going to be significant for non-magical traps at low-level. At high level, traps are going to be magical, and automatically found via detect magic, and any Wizard can do it. Now, if your DM doesn't like the auto-detect and starts having Nystul's Magic Aura cast on every trap, remind him that you guys don't have trapfinding and it would be unfair to hose the group despite one character focusing a bit on it.
#9 theantitroll Nov 30, 2008 17:03:29	Just use your face. Better yet, a summon's face. Plenty of spell power to absorb all that. Detect Magic + Warlock at will Dispel is nice too.
#10 reis Nov 30, 2008 17:15:36	hate to point out that forcing summoned creatures to act as trap fodder is probably an evil act
#11 theantitroll Nov 30, 2008 17:19:06	Doesn't actually affect them in any way. It's not like they're Called.
#12 rasmus_wagner Nov 30, 2008 17:19:17	hate to point out that forcing summoned creatures to act as trap fodder is probably an evil act Nah. Conjuration(Calling) effects, probably. Conjuration(Summoning) effects....not so much.
#13 kurashu Nov 30, 2008 17:20:08	What if they are evil creatures being forced to be trap fodder? I ask this because Malconvokers make the best summoners.
#14 rasmus_wagner Nov 30, 2008 17:21:07	The dwarf and the warlock will catch the corridor and room traps. as for doors and chest...blow everything up at 30' distance.
#15 rasmus_wagner Nov 30, 2008 17:26:52	Besides, depending on the context of the trap.....it might not matter. Middle-aged school dungeons have traps that inflict some sort of damage. Yawn. Old-school dungeons have save-or-die traps all over the place, and you'll need your best effort there. New-school dungeons ideally have traps as the opneing shots of an encounter - you need defenses against those as well.
#16 Endarire Nov 30, 2008 18:35:56	NOTE: Wizards lack Search as a class skill, though Archmages have Search as class.
#17 jameswilliamogle Nov 30, 2008 19:09:24	NOTE: Wizards lack Search as a class skill, though Archmages have Search as class. Doh! Why did I think that? Anyways, being Int-based could make cross-class ranks worth it, still.
#18 reis Nov 30, 2008 19:39:31	Nah. Conjuration(Calling) effects, probably. Conjuration(Summoning) effects....not so much. purposely inflicting pain on intelligent beings (actual harm or not) for no better reason than to save yourself the hassle of checking for traps yourself or hiring a npc rogue...how is this not evil again? believe it's called torture It's not bad on the level of outright murder or other evil acts but definitely not something good characters should be engaging in except in a life or death situation. Exalted characters and paladins can't even do it (or allow others to do it) in that case without permanently losing their abilities. What if they are evil creatures being forced to be trap fodder? I ask this because Malconvokers make the best summoners. torturing evil creatures is still an evil act
#19 jaronk Nov 30, 2008 20:18:16	Who says it's torture? They might not even remember being summoned when they go back. Anyway, I prefer using Animate Dead. Just send a few skeletons in front to detect for you. And yes, it's evil, but it's for the greater good! JaronK
#20 reis Nov 30, 2008 20:34:15	whether or not they remember it is irrelevant, it's still wrong check out the book of exalted deeds page 9 for more info on what constitutes an evil act in d&d terms, from a strictly good aligned perspective, the ends don't ever justify the means.
#21 feloniousela Nov 30, 2008 20:57:16	Yay for being neutral! Also, whether or not it is evil, in a non-sanctified campaign, is going to be up to your DM and your group if it ever gets brought up. Most groups don't really pay too much attention to whether or not summoning a badger to walk in front of you in a dungeon in case there are traps is a moral or immoral act. Does it make hunting illegal then too, if you don't eat the animal after? Maybe to some DMs and players, but that kind of discussion probably isn't coming up often. Quest: The local guild hall thinks a dragon's head in the the main dining hall would look fantastic. The guild is going for a white and gold color scheme, so it sends you off to the north to kill the white dragon who live in a cave feeding on the local polar bear population. You refuse this quest? Is it too evil?
#22 jameswilliamogle Nov 30, 2008 21:10:33	lol, I find it interesting that a thread about how to get Trapfinding becomes a morality discussion of alignment. Anyways, another way to get Trapfinding, formally, is to take 2 feats from Magic of Incarnum: Shape Soulmeld (Theft Gloves) and Open Least Chakra (Hangs) to bind them. I believe that requires L6... books not handy... The 10' pole trick is a classic AD&D technique, and may even predate that. Flour pouch, rubber bouncy ball, magnet, and twine are all in Dungeonscape. All can be used for various tricks, but that ball is great for area traps.
#23 jaronk Nov 30, 2008 21:14:26	Another option: take Leadership, and make one of your followers a Commoner with Infested with Chickens, or just use Diplomacy to secure his help. Have him fling chickens ahead of your party to trigger traps. If the chickens are not killed by poison, eat them later... you were going to eat food anyway, right? So there's nothing wrong with that. You're just being efficient. JaronK
#24 tshern Dec 01, 2008 5:58:42	Another option: take Leadership, and make one of your followers a Commoner with Infested with Chickens, or just use Diplomacy to secure his help. Have him fling chickens ahead of your party to trigger traps. If the chickens are not killed by poison, eat them later... you were going to eat food anyway, right? So there's nothing wrong with that. You're just being efficient. JaronK If he takes Leadership he might actually get someone with trapfinding...
#25 ChristopherGroves Dec 01, 2008 7:17:20	Arguments on morality ... besides, its not like goblins are actually intelligent creatures ...
#26 tshern Dec 01, 2008 7:27:33	Arguments on morality ... besides, its not like goblins are actually intelligent creatures ... I know plenty of players this statement applies to as well. And their characters too, Zarggggg the int 4 Barbarian time after time.
#27 tana_san Dec 01, 2008 7:37:21	hate to point out that forcing summoned creatures to act as trap fodder is probably an evil act By the same logic, it is an evil act to summon creatures to fight for you, because you are forcing them to endanger their lives. Well, it's time to bin my Exalted Malconvoker, then.
#28 theantitroll Dec 01, 2008 7:49:24	Even if hurting things that can't actually be hurt or killed were an evil thing, and even if you cared about not doing evil things... Unseen Servant. It's not a creature at all, but can still set off traps. Still a 1st level spell too.
#29 hogarth Dec 01, 2008 8:42:20	hate to point out that forcing summoned creatures to act as trap fodder is probably an evil act Use Conjure Ice Beast instead; they're more durable, they have all sorts of construct immunities, and they can follow instructions phrased in Common.
#30 ChristopherGroves Dec 01, 2008 8:53:44	Or summon desert ally series (sandstorm) ... dustform creatures are constructs ...
#31 altpersona Dec 01, 2008 10:37:27	a good druid should be using the inhabitants of the area to trap find... what dungeon dosnt have rats...
#32 phaedrusxy Dec 01, 2008 11:07:57	Even if hurting things that can't actually be hurt or killed were an evil thing, and even if you cared about not doing evil things... Unseen Servant. It's not a creature at all, but can still set off traps. Still a 1st level spell too. And it lasts for 1 hour per level, instead of 1 round per level. Build a "scarecrow" for it to drag around, and it can also be bait for ambushes, while it probes the ground for traps with the end of the scarecrow. This should get pretty much all the mundane traps, and the ones that can specifically sense "creatures" are all going to be magical, and can be found with Detect Magic. These you can then set off with a level 1 summons. Purchasing a cheap Bag of Tricks might be worth it, if you do this frequently.
#33 jaronk Dec 01, 2008 14:19:16	If he takes Leadership he might actually get someone with trapfinding... Yeah, but this method only uses up a Follower. Now he can use up the Cohort on something that is better and doesn't need Trapfinding, like a Nymph. Nymphs always make the best cohorts. Especially Nymphs with the Nymph's Kiss feat. JaronK
#34 altpersona Dec 01, 2008 14:32:12	as for followers and cohorts, we always tended to drag around torch / flag bearers. if they survive an encounter or two they get to start using weapons and do real adventuring...
#35 reis Dec 01, 2008 15:01:59	but of course, smart dungeon builders are going to be aware of the popular tactic among adventurers to send a sacrificial mule to scout in front of them and will therefore design many traps to counteract this tactic. for example, setting a trap with a pressure plate so that it takes a being of at least 120lbs or more to activate it. Or making the killzone for the trap reach a good distance down a tunnel behind the trigger to hit the adventuring group hanging back there.
#36 eldariel Dec 01, 2008 15:02:28	Easy means of getting Trapfinding: -Cleric picking Kobold-domain gains Trapfinding. A Cloistered Cleric easily affords the points. -Anyone picking Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightement, which grants one Domain Granted Power - pick Kobold-domain, obviously. -Incarnum, as pointed out previously. -Binding. Other than that, you can just try to make do without. Find Traps/whatever to locate traps, and work around the traps through other means - usually some variety of teleportation/glide/fly/burrow/dispel/summon/damage spell is capable of bypassing, disabling, disarming or destroying the trap. Then there's an array of mundane tricks too. Of course, when those don't work and you really, really need to acquire that Artifact, you'll be facepalming.
#37 phaedrusxy Dec 01, 2008 15:12:02	but of course, smart dungeon builders are going to be aware of the popular tactic among adventurers to send a sacrificial mule to scout in front of them and will therefore design many traps to counteract this tactic. for example, setting a trap with a pressure plate so that it takes a being of at least 120lbs or more to activate it. All the more reason to play a gnome or halfling. :D Or making the killzone for the trap reach a good distance down a tunnel behind the trigger to hit the adventuring group hanging back there. That would nix the Unseen Servant, but summoned critters could just be sent farther ahead. My second favorite trapfinding method was "send in a herd of sheep" . :P Send in the entire herd, while you all wait outside for a while. All the hungry monsters get fed, all the traps get set off, and you have plenty of mutton for dinner. Of course, Log the Timber-rogue is the best trapfinder ever.
#38 eldariel Dec 01, 2008 15:16:34	Resetting traps, magically targeted traps, (resetting) traps inside Dead Magic Zones, McGuffin-destroying traps, whatever-guardian-beast-calling traps, way-blocking traps and such tend to make summon armadas pretty unreliable though. Generally, at least every trap I design is an encounter to its own right and therefore everyone needs to be dealt with individually.
#39 phaedrusxy Dec 01, 2008 15:20:21	Resetting traps, magically targeted traps, (resetting) traps inside Dead Magic Zones, McGuffin-destroying traps, whatever-guardian-beast-calling traps, way-blocking traps and such tend to make summon armadas pretty unreliable though. Generally, at least every trap I design is an encounter to its own right and therefore everyone needs to be dealt with individually. In a game with a DM like that, yeah... bring a rogue. I've never actually played in a game like that in 20 years of gaming. (We never ran the Tome of Horrors. :P ) In fact, most of our adventures happened in wilderness areas, and maybe in a cave at most. Or in a keep (or city) where people were actually living, not an abandoned trap-filled dungeon.
#40 reis Dec 01, 2008 15:28:39	one of the PC's in the game i run is fond of shapechanging into a beholder and disintegrating doors in the way of the group in lieu of bothering with the traps and locks, i have some plans for this though...such as doors that are filled with flux slime
#41 eldariel Dec 01, 2008 15:37:29	In a game with a DM like that, yeah... bring a rogue. I've never actually played in a game like that in 20 years of gaming. (We never ran the Tome of Horrors. :P ) In fact, most of our adventures happened in wilderness areas, and maybe in a cave at most. Or in a keep (or city) where people were actually living, not an abandoned trap-filled dungeon. I find that for traps to be an actually interesting part of the play experience, they need to be more than "two rolls or die" - I mean, sure, the Search-check tells you there's a trap, but disarming/bypassing it needs to be a bit more interesting than just "roll for Disable Device". I don't really find forcing players to summon a horde of Celestial Gnus to bulldoze traps for them too interesting for anyone, so I simply avoid sitiuations where that would happen. Of course, complex, interesting traps are mostly parts of some vaults protecting objects of immense powers, tombs of the kings of past and so on; if we're talking about assaulting a Kobold-cave, that Celestial Gnu-stampede may be a good idea after all.
#42 jameswilliamogle Dec 01, 2008 16:43:56	How does binding get trapfinding?
#43 eldariel Dec 01, 2008 16:52:18	Wops. I remembered Andromalius granted it. My bad.
#44 prime361 Dec 02, 2008 1:15:52	Anyone can search for and find trap with a difficulty of 20 or less, it says so in the book. For anything harder than that you have to get a rogue or use one of the above listed tricks.