I am having a bit of a problem in my current campaign, in that my paladin isn’t really keeping up with the other players in terms of damage output, so I am looking for suggestions as to how I can improve him in that regard, either via magic items or via feats and retraining. This might just be a case of the rather stiff competition overwhelming me, but I will get to that.
First a few notes on the game:
-The campaign is set in faerun so all books relating to that setting is allowed, the same goes for all the 3,5 books except, psionics handbook and miniatures.
-The GM is very restrictive when it comes to gold so we have to work with what we have
-We all just reached level 9
T-he other characters making up the group is a wizard/loremaster, a scout/ranger and a chosen/fighter/rogue
-The wizard has the craft wonderous items feat and is more than willing to craft any items the group needs as long as we supply the materials.
-I play a human paladin level 9, with the following feats: exotic weapon prof: bastard sword, power attack, cleave, Divine shield and I have yet to choose my level 9 feat.
I currently have a +1 bastardsword (with a gem that adds +1d6 fire damage), a ring of protection +1, a periath of wisdom +2, gauntlets of ogre power +2 and until recently a +1 large wooden shield (it got dropped into a underground lake… long story). My GM holds onto my character sheet in between sessions, so I might have left out some miner objects.
Because we lack in the healing department we (the players) have taken to trying to make the fights as short as possible, the ranger/scout is capable of putting out some rather awesome numbers, ranging from 70-90 in one round with the wizard and the chosen/fighter /rogue not far behind. The numbers are just averages, as you all know the circumstances always change when playing.
So my question basically boils down to how can I optimize my paladin for more burst damage? Taking into account that we are allowed to retrain feats and that I am working on a budget as far as it comes to magic weapons, less so with wondrous items because of the wizard.
I was thinking about taking the awesome smite feat after having read about it in one of the guides here on the forum.
Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions you might have
Speaking of, I probably wouldn't replace that shield unless you can afford to animate it. You'll almost certainly be better off two-handing your sword, especially if you Power Attack ever.
I'm probably not the best person to advice on this, having mostly steered clear of Paladins, but there are definite ways to up your Smiting. The Charging Smite alternate class feature from PHB 2, will probably be useful here.
Finally, take a look at Battle Blessing from Complete Champion. I'm afb, but I think that's the name. It allows you to cast your spells as Swift actions. This will especially help if you have access to Spell Compendium for some nice Paladin only spells, like Rhino's Rush.
Extra Smite never did anyone any harm either. I'd also consider dropping Divine Shield, wield your sword in 2 hands and take Divine Might instead. Also, if you can drop the EWP and use a Greatsword instead.
How much can you actually change?
You could also consider a Cleric multiclass before heading into a PrC:
Paladin 5 / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Ordained Champion 4 / KotR 10
That gets Paladin Smites (save them for when you charge), Turn Undead -> Smite from OC, Smite Undead from KotR - all of which will trigger the Awesome Smite abilities. Also gets auto-quickened War Domain spells, 7th level Cleric spells, and can swap out domains for the likes of Knowledge Devotion, Law Devotion, Animal Devotion, etc
If you can't change that much I'd consider going Paladin 9 / Divine Crusader 1 / Ordained Champion 2 / Knight of the Raven 8 - that'll get 9th level spells from 3 domains and the smiting goodies. But generally the broader spell access from Cleric is better than the Divine Crusader.
First of, I can retrain pretty much everything. Except maby my paladin levels.
I am however reluctent to remove the holy shield feat since my GM plays for keeps, meaning he has already offed my character once. I kindda need the extra AC to keep alive. Because of the ranger and his AC of 28 when skirmishing, all the monster/NPC's we meet have very high to hit bonuses.
About the devotion feats... Do you need domains to take those. I read those to mean that as long as your GM okay it as going with the theme of your char its okay to take them.
I will write up a more detailed response when I have had the chance to look over the classes you suggest, I am currently visiting my sister, but will be back and reunitet with my books tomorrow.
Thanks again for the suggestions so far they have been very helpfull
I am however reluctent to remove the holy shield feat since my GM plays for keeps, meaning he has already offed my character once. I kindda need the extra AC to keep alive.
You'll end up taking less damage if the monsters die faster. Have you been using your first standard action in combat to use divine shield? That would have been one or two guys dead if you hadn't had that feat.
About the devotion feats... Do you need domains to take those. I read those to mean that as long as your GM okay it as going with the theme of your char its okay to take them.
Yes, you can take them as regular old feats, but you can only take two of them, If my memory serves me.
About the devotion feats... Do you need domains to take those. I read those to mean that as long as your GM okay it as going with the theme of your char its okay to take them.
You can take them normally. Swapping out domains gets them as bonus feats tho (great for Clerics of gods with poor domain choices).
What god do you worship btw? what domains does he/she offer? If there's some good choices then a Cleric dip can be awesome.
If you can retrain those feats, you want to, at minimum, drop div. shd. for Divine might. Also, drop cleave for Extra Smiting (don't worry, you'll get it back shortly). Next, with the level you just got, you're not going to put it into Paladin, nono, you're taking the ULTIMATE PrC for the Pally; Fighter. You dip into it (2 levels, 2 extra feats, maintain hps and BAB- of course, you can't go back to paladin, but why would you want to? Unless you want a celestial killer whale with a half-dragon template as a mount or some crap.)
Anyway, 2 lvs fighter- w/ your 9th level feat, you take the true believer feat (just to qual for Pious Templar) w/ the 1st fighter feat, you get wpn focus (again, to qual for Pious Templar), and at 2nd fighter, you get cleave back. You're now a Pal 8/ Ftr 2, and all ready to head into Pious templar, which is an excellant PrC.
@ 12th lev, you want to get extra Turning (so you can use Divine Might more often), and at 15th, you take Extra Smiting agaiin. You are now a Pal8/Ftr2/ PiT5. You can smite (and templar levels stack w/ your Pal levels for the smites) 8 times a day, and probably have 10 turn attempts a day, not to mention weapon specialization, mettle, a bit of DR, and even more Paladin Spells.
I personally am using a minor variant of the Pious Templar, in which I've exchanged the spell use for the continued use of lay on hands, stacking of templar levels w/ my Pal levels for mount ability determination, and a couple fighter bonus feats.
Again, not knowing your stats, this may or may not work for you, but for me (I'm an Aasimar w/ a 22 CHA) the Divine might and smites are particularly mean. Especially since they stack.
Hope this helps.
Cleave's only REALLY good if A) you've got Greater Cleave too and B) you know you can reliably drop a monster.
Otherwise, it's a waste of a perfectly good feat.
Also, if your DM is playing to adequate to your party and they're dealing damage in the 90's already (or should I say 'only now'? I never know in the CO boards), I'd be surprised if the monsters didn't start coming after you guys with DR, spells and SLAs... Unless he's dumb, in which case he'll just up the HPs and the hit bonuses. Also, consider this: even if you get hit often, you still have the HPs to back you up. It's not like you're particularly squishy with that d10 hit die. Your friends, on the other hand, will become pasta quickly if the monsters get to them. If your Wizard buddy isn't doing anything beyond blasting, he's going to become a target pretty soon. And your Ranger friend can only do so much if he becomes an enemy spellcaster's favorite spot for target practice. So basically, what I'm saying is: AC isn't going to be worth it if you're being targeted with the right stuff, and your party mates are just as much viable targets as you are. And since they're dealing more damage as well, they are a bigger threat.
My horse is gonna get put out to pasture and I am gonna go for charging smite instead
Cleave is gonna get retrained into awsome smite
Divine shield is gonna get changed into Divine might
EWP: bastardsword is gonna get changed into Battle blessings
that would leave me with one feat left undecided.
To answer some of the questions:
My paladin worships Lathander which would give me access to the following domains: Good, protection, renewel, strengh, Sun
Lathanders favored weapon is the light or heavy mace
that makes me wanne skip the ordained champion bacause i would then have to take weapon focus: heavy mace and never use it.
Also my stats after modification by magic items are as follows:
STR: 16
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS 16
CHR: 16
I dont have access to the expedition to castle ravenloft so knight of the raven might not be an option, gonna have to look around for it. As to the Book of Exalted Deeds first of raziel, I am gonna go rob my GMs house for it and take a look later tonight.
In light of the information above I would appreciate any further suggestions you might give me.
Extra smite is a viable option if you're taking awesome smite
I only suggested KotR because it advances Turn Undead, ergo it advances the Ordained Champ Smite ability.
If you're not going Ordained Champ then Fist of Raziel is the smiting class par excellence. I'd use that free feat slot for the FoR prereq (Servant of the Heavens/Knight of Stars/t'other one - I can't remember which). Then ninjarabbit's suggestions are your feats for while levelling up. Also worth considering are Combat Brute and Shock Trooper in Complete Warrior. Shock Trooper in particular is fantastic.
I'd either go Paladin 9 / Cleric 1 / Fist of Raziel 10 (then either Cleric casting and maybe drop Battle Blessing) or just straight Paladin 10 / Fist of Raiel 10 and keep Battle Blessing.
After that, a Valorous Weapon (Unapproachable East) for double damage on a charge, Rhino's Rush spell for another double damage.
Kuroimaken, Great Cleave is NEVER a good feat pick unless you know with 150% reliability that your DM likes to throw hordes of minions at you. Even then, you'd be better off with a Wizard's [i]fireball/i].
Yeah, but how many DMs have you ever seen that play as smart as a CO member?
Yeah, but how many DMs have you ever seen that play as smart as a CO member?
Sure, Balthanon.
We then came to the conclusion that I taking the pious templar at level 11 was the best option, but that I would have to change my god to keep with the new theme of the character. The word atonement quest was thrown around quite a bit. To make it short I will be experiencing a revelation and convert to Torm.
Of my original feats power attack got to stay.
My GM allowed me to change Divine shield to Divine might instantly since he conceded that my paladin going from channeling divine power into my shield into my sword probably wasn’t that big a change.
Although a bit late I also got to change EWP: bastard sword into weapon focus: great sword under the condition that it would not go into effect until I had gained another level. This fit nicely with the fact that it’s a requirement of pious templar.
I would get to retrain cleave into the true believer feat at level 10 and retrain my mount into charging smite at level 11. My choice for my level 9 feat is now confirmed as awesome smites. All in all my charging paladin should be up and running at level 11.
Thanks for all your help I much appreciate it.
Get Divine Might. There is no exception to this. Divine Might lets you use your otherwise unused turn attempts to give you a to-hit and damage boost equal to your charisma bonus, which is considerable seeing that you are a Paladin, and your charisma is high. Also, heavily consider getting Law Devotion(Complete Champion) which scales with your level, and gains extra uses from turn attempts. This also adds to your to-hit by your charisma bonus , as well as lasting for 1 whole minute. You can even change it to an AC bonus and back every -round- depending on what role you need to play. Good luck!