Bard lvl 10 gestalt need picks for gestalt
Books available:3.5 basically everything including the bibles
Items:cash 120000gp to spend on items
Race: lvl adjust 3 and less can be completely ignored when factoring level
Class: base bard variants welcome, use any prestige you want
Ability Scores: assume they will be stacked heavily
Alignment: CG or NG
House Rules: we get 2 points at ability raises instead of 1
Concept: We have a skill monkey we need a knowledge monkey and a buffer
Other: the party is as such
Goliath barbarian/tribal protector3.0/Nordic Champion* wearing Thors belt
Catfolk mountebank combat rogue
Paladin of Freedom/Nordic Champion
Valkyrie/artificer
centaur ranger
cleric that cannot deal damage due to a perverted wish
Nordic champion is custom prestige class for this campaign its obscene but so is everything else in this campaign but really doesn't matter as its junk for bards
Don't be afraid of munchkinizing he is going to kill us either way it only affects how long it is between trips to the obscenely over priced biomancer and his clones
Consider optimizing Inspire Courage, maybe taking up Dragonfire Inspiration if you can. Otherwise, set yourself up with fineries such as Lyric Spell, Metamagic Song, and the like if you want to focus on spellcasting -- make sure you're ready to go Sublime Chord at the earliest opportunity.
As for the other side, it really depends on what you want the guy to be overall. If he's going to be in melee, consider ToB classes, because those guys are the only thing standing between you being a caster's breakfast and the caster being your breakfast. If you want to focus on spellcasting, you might want to consider a Favored Soul (less MAD that way and access to Divine spellcasting, lots of love to go around) or Cleric (for turning shenanigans and overall making your DM cry).
On the other side, maybe an Crusader?
You would have in combination with Bard,
3 good Saving Throws, gain mettle and Maneuvers (like White Raven Tactics.)
An d10 for Hit-Dice.
Dont have the books with me. When does the Crusader gain Mettle and when the Swordsage Evasion?
Not shure if you can have both with this classes...
korwin thank you for your imput i will keep that in mind
Please mention which book the info you are mentioning is found in.
Silverbrow [DM] Human
Crusader20 // Bard1/Marshal1[MiniHB]/Bard2-8/Virtuoso1/SublimeChord2/Virtuoso2-9
Feats:
- Song of the White Raven [ToB]
- Dragonfire Inspiration: replace Inspire Courage bonus with +1D6 fire damage per +1 [DM]
- Snowflake Wardance: +CHA to hit [FB]
- Words of Creation [BoED]
- Song of the Heart [ECS]
- (Optional: Adaptive Learner [CAdv])
- Extra granted Maneuver [ToB]
- Stone Power [ToB]
Equipment:
- Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows: +CHA fire to damage [DrCo]
- Harmonizing Crystal Echoblade: +½ Bard Level to damage [MIC]
- Slippers of Battledancing: CHA to hit/damage instead of STR if moves 10+ft. [DMG2]
- Vest of Legends (+5 effective bard levels for Inspire Courage) [DMG2]
- Badge of Valor [MIC]
- Masterwork Horn
- Mithral shirt/breastplate +X
- Mithral buckler +X
Inspire Courage optimization:
- Base bard bonus (up to +4 at level 18, thanks to vest)
- Doubled bonus due to Words of Creation
- +1, Badge of Valor
- +1, Inspirational Boost spell [SC]
- +1, Song of the Heart
- +1, Masterwork Horn
Advantages:
- Full BAB
- Solid (D10) hit die
- Excellent saves
- 9th level spells (Sublime Chord)
- 9th level maneuvers
- Inspire Courage optimized (up to +16 to hit & damage, or up to +16D6 damage per hit, depending on how Words of Creation is ruled)
- High CHA synergy (to hit x2, to damage x2, to will saves, to spell DCs, to Initiative (!), to all DEX (skill) checks, etc.). You basically only need CHA and CON.
- Effective melee (crusader tanking), spellcaster (arcane), support (buffing), skill monkey
Tactics:
- First round: Inspire Courage (swift action), charge or cast spell
- Weapon keeps bardic music going, use swift action to improve bonus (via Badge of Valor), melee or cast
- Kick arse
Stats:
CHA >> CON >>> INT > DEX > WIS > STR
Options:
- Drop one level (Bard or perhaps Marshal) for Sorcerer and pick up Draconic Heritage (Battle, Pyroclastic, etc.) via RotD substitution level to do Sonic damage instead of fire damage with your Dragonfire Inspiration
- Two-weapon fighting with Crystal Echoblades. Feat intensive (Two-weapon fighting, Oversized TWF, Improved TWF, ...), changes Attribute order
- Nerra (Varoot), +3 LA [FF]: Reflective (!) SR, minor resistances, nice stat bonuses, outsider type. Buy a Daazzix's Vest [DMG2] for an extra +5 SR. Needs an extra Feat to qualify for Dragonfire Inspiration
- Feral template, +1 LA [SS]: Fast healing, +6 AC, etc. for a measly +1 LA.
- Mineral Warrior, +1 LA [UD]: DR 8/adamantine and burrowing for the win. Minor hit to CHA, though.
- Half-Celestial, +2 [BoED]: The BoED suggests that this template can be had with only an LA of +2 instead of the +4 LA from MM. See BoED, p. 27.
- Spellwarped template, +3 LA [MM3]: SR, attribute bonuses and some minor abilities. Buy a Daazzix's Vest [DMG2] for an extra +5 SR.
Other options:
- Saint template, +2 LA [BoED]: Fantastic abilities, but requires you to be exalted - a bargain if you like that, a serious pain otherwise.
- Dragonborn template, +0 LA [RotD]: nice, but requires you to be LG and follow Bahamut.
- Half-dragon [MM], +3 LA: ok, but not too great
- Voidmind template [MM3], +3 LA: nice immunities, but sucky flavor
- Woodling template [MM3], +3 LA: nice immunities, +7 NA
Recommendation (using up the free +3 LA):
- (Simple): Varoot. Not too powerful, but reflective SR is some serious fun. Add in very nice attribute bonuses (+4 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Wis, +6 Cha), minor resistances, and the juicy outsider type (polymorph abuse), it's a great deal for free.
- (Advanced): Feral or Mineral Warrior Half-Celestial.
- (Cheesy): Dragonborn Lolth-Touched [MM4] Saint. Fantastic attribute bonuses and special abilities. Backstory might require some work to explain the alignment changes: Lolth-touched (CE) --> Dragonborn (LG) --> Saint (exalted). Depending on your group, being exalted can have serious roleplaying repercussions.
we have 3 heavy hitters this char needs to be our knowledge monkey / buffer
Dragonfire Inspiration... done!
I second warblade/crusader with song of the white raven for the other half, Sorc/wizzie if you're afraid of being redundant, and sublime chord is a no-brainer.
Nerra (Varoot), +3 LA [FF]: Reflective (!) SR, minor resistances, nice stat bonuses, outsider type.
+1. An amazing race, and with +3 LA free, this is one of the best options to take.
Flanking Maneuver strike + Tactics of the Wolf stance + Superior Flank teamwork + lots of heavy hitters.
im going with factotum bard
now i need direction on Feats and Items
Buffing ? That probably means War Weaver too
Seconded, even though the Bard's best buffs don't need War Weaver.
Bards already get all the knowledge they want via Bardic Knowledge. I -think- you could safely go with Loremaster after the (almost obligatory) two SC levels for optimizing Knowledge goodness. Bards also get access to pretty good buffs, which if you go War Weaver are going to get pretty hilarious.
By the way, if your Cleric friend can't deal damage due to a badly worded Wish, why do you want to focus on buffing anyway?
Great thing about bard (esp gestalt) is you can be good at knowledge and buffing (which includes yourself!) and still be a hard-hitter (because you buff yourself!). 2 rounds buffing everyone and you hit almost as hard as the best of them, with inspire courage for, let's throw a number out there, +6, and dragonfire too for 6d6, you rock in combat.
I suggest taking that 1 level of marshal, improved trip, 2 weapon fighting and go kusarigama-mental. 4+cha bonus to trip attempts, with a free attack if you succeed, and TWF with the +6d6 damage... that's pretty kickin'... especially with all those SS maneuvers
im having trouble finding the stat ajustments on the varoot
You can find the stat adjustments in my post.
with the barb in the party the way he is teh mobs are created that few other chars can really hit the necessary ac we need buffers and KNOWLEDGE monkeys. a crusader can't pull that ti the level i need
Hmm, you don't think you can hit? Full BAB + 2x CHA (your prime skill) + Inspire Courage (up to +10 at this level) + spells + items is not enough? I think you may not understand the build.
If you want a buffer (note: the suggested crusader/bard does an excellent job at that), another option could be a bard/SC//wiz/war-weaver, as has been suggested.
Crusader 6 / Prestige Bard 1 on one side ...
Warmage 6 on the other leading to Rainbow Servant ...
Okay. Bard 10? Not a good choice. Bard 5/Lyric Thaumaturge 5, now we're talking.
LYRIC THAUMATURGE BLOWS GOATS FOR SPARE CHANGE.
Look, let's slightly boost your spellcasting (why not just be a gorram sorceror), and in exchange, utterly kill your bardic music advancement.
Uhm, how about NO.
Bards focusing on casting should be headed for Sublime Chord. A slight lyric thau dip may be okay, but 5 levels is a waste of valuable levels.
Bards focusing on music should never even think about Lyric Thau.
Bards doing both go Bard/virtuoso/sublime chord.
Bard 10/Crusader or Warblade 10. Three good saves, full BAB, good skills, good buffing.
Dealing with the inspirational side first.
Bardic Music - Inspire Courage for the whole party:
Start with Bard 10/Warblade 10 (or Bard 10/Crusader 10) and specialise in the White Raven school.
Obvious feats: Song of the Heart, Song of the White Raven. (To go even more insane, add Words of Creation from the Book of Exalted Deeds).
Obvious Spell: Inspirational Boost (also Message if stealth is an issue)
Obvious items: Badge of Valor (MIC)
Obvious weapon: Harmonising (MIC) Crystal Echoblade (MIC) (effectively +2 longsword in cost).
Song of the White Raven adds your Warblade or Crusader levels to your Bard levels so you are effectively slinging Inspire Courage around at Level 20 for +4 to hit and damage. Song of the Heart automatically adds 1 to this for +5/+5 automatically. The Badge of Valour adds +1 to this 3 times per day, and the Inspirational Boost adds a further +1 at the cost of a 1st level spell and a Swift Action. Therefore you can give the party (and any other allies) a morale bonue of +7 (!) to hit and damage on all attacks 3 times a day for a duration of at least a minute. At this point the wizard is hitting like a fighter. (And you can get a further +1 from the Battle Rattle instrument in some issue of Dragon).
Assuming you're prepared to go for the Book of Exalted Deeds, you get this up to at least +11 (assuming the least favourable interpretation - my interpretation would be +12) by taking Words of Creation (for the cost of 3d4 subdual damage). You can also get the incredibly b0rken Saint template which has amongst other things Fast Healing and Protection against Evil.
You also have White Raven Tactics that can regularly give an ally an extra full-round action - and whatever else you pull out of the White Raven discipline and your spell list.
Now let's look at your knowledge:
First things first: the Bard. 10 ranks in Bardic Lore go quite a long way as Bardic Lore can be used for just about any knowledge skill.
Second, 5 ranks in Knowlege (History). Your Bardic Lore is now up to +12 (before your Int bonus)
Third, the Obscure Lore feat. +4 to Bardic Knowledge checks - or +16 cold.
Fourth, Prestige Classes. World Speaker from Dragon #311 gives you +2. You're now up to +18. (Worldspeaker is chosen because it gives you absolutely no penalties when compared to a "regular" bard, but does give you a few minor boosts).
Fifth: Magic Items. Headband of Lore pushes you up to +23.
Sixth: Abilities. Int 20 (including item enhancements - which should be relatively easily doable from your description) pushes you up to the magic +28. At that point you are making Extremely Obscure knowledge checks (i.e. the most dificult there are in the PHB) on a roll of 2. You don't get to be more of a loremaster than that. Note that if you get Int 24 you don't need the Worldspeaker levels.
So to sum up, you want a buffing and knowledge monster and are prepared to be very cheesy:
Sainted Bard 10/Crusader 10 with a modified Int of 24. No prestige classes at all - and just the basic Bard. Your fellow players will look at you as if you are crazy, but:
In terms of Knowledge, you're at +28 on Obscure Lore. You know it all. You simply can't do better than that without being a gnome with Trivial Lore (not that I'm recommending against this choice).
Buffing: Assuming you've taken Words of Creation, you can easily give yourself and all your allies a +12 (!) morale bonus to hit and to damage on all attack rolls. Using the Message spell you can effectively do it silently. You also get White Raven Tactics for free about once every four rounds (you did take Extra Granted Maneuver, right?), some spells, Inspire Greatness (at +6/6d10 +6*con modifier Temp hit points for one target if you are willing to take 12d4 subdual), and a few other maneuvers. Oh, and boosts for flanking from White Raven.
Hitting things yourself: Not only are you at +12 to hit and damage from your bardic music, that sword I pointed out only costs about as much as a +2 longsword - but gives you +1 to hit and +6 to damage (i.e. +1 + 1/2 your bard level). Therefore before your Str modifier, your two longsword attacks per round are hitting at +23 and +18 and doing 1d8+18 damage each. Of course you won't be showing up your twinked out allies because they get the +12/+12 (or +10/+10 if you don't use the item and the spell) as well...
Defences - you've got high saves in all three categories (including a +5 vest of resistance you start at +12 before stat modifiers). The Saint gives you fast healing, an array of immunities, Fire Resistance, Damage Resistance/Evil, a double strength Magic Circle against Evil, and a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability against spells. Oh yeah, and an AC bonus equal to your Wis modifier. (You wear light armour with this build and can still cast spells - and a Mithral Buckler doesn't get in your way either). You're going to take quite some killing.
Does that qualify in the knowledge and buffing stakes? And sorry it's slightly late.
LYRIC THAUMATURGE BLOWS GOATS FOR SPARE CHANGE.
Look, let's slightly boost your spellcasting (why not just be a gorram sorceror), and in exchange, utterly kill your bardic music advancement.
Uhm, how about NO.
Bards focusing on casting should be headed for Sublime Chord. A slight lyric thau dip may be okay, but 5 levels is a waste of valuable levels.
Bards focusing on music should never even think about Lyric Thau.
Bards doing both go Bard/virtuoso/sublime chord.
Sorry to ressurrect the thread...
But I think you're confusing Lyric Thaumaturges with Warmages. Are you batshit insane? Where do you get off saying Lyric Thaumaturges kill Bardic Music advancement? For starters, a Vest of Courage is going to cover those five levels easily. Besides, he can't even get into SC before 10th level. What the heck are you smoking?
Sorry to ressurrect the thread...
But I think you're confusing Lyric Thaumaturges with Warmages. Are you batshit insane? Where do you get off saying Lyric Thaumaturges kill Bardic Music advancement? For starters, a Vest of Courage is going to cover those five levels easily.
That still leaves you at a bard 10, and a lousy IC of +2 (especially since you didn't even hit bard 6 for Song of the Heart). LAAAAAME. Even with boosters, you're looking at +6, max
A bard 6/X2/Virtuoso2/SC2/Vir+8 with a Vest of Legends has the IC of a bard 20, + Song of the Heart. With other boosts, this is IC + 11
Losing 5 IC and further bardic music abilities for a few extra spell slots doesn't strike me as at all worth it. Lyric thau is a 2 level dip for Enchanting Meleody at best.
Besides, he can't even get into SC before 10th level. What the heck are you smoking?
What the heck are you?
By itself, you can't really do a bardic malconvoker all that easily, but you could make it work in gestalt.
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