My feats are:
Eschew Materials
Combat casting
Weapon focus (ranged spells)
Empower spell* --> from War Mage
Arcain Thesis (dardi)
Enlarge Spell*--> from War Mage
Knowledge Devotion
Twin spells
got 3 lvls (from 17 to 20) that i don't know what to do and 3 feats to use.
this build is made to make this:
Your base Magic Missile now does 7 missiles, twin and you have 14 missiles.
War Mage makes each missile do another +3 damage
Argent Savant makes each missile do another +1 damage
Knowledge Devotion makes each missile do up to another +5 damage per roll.
The Spell Acid Sheath from the spell compedium adds +1 damage per damage die for each acid spell cast during the duration.
Rod of Empower Spell and so on....
now every single MM make:
1d4+1+3+1+5
My question is:
there is a prestige class and 3 feats that can help me to make more domage than now with my MM?
Idrop the idea of ledy's gambit...
Knowledge Devotion wont help at all for this... since MM does not require an attack roll
:D
Plus there are other Metamagics feats that increase your total dmg output like Repeat Spell, if you have the slots to take them.
Can you sneak attack with Magic Missiles? Could be a way of getting more dmg there, if you can also find a way to squeeze in some SA dmg..
and for knowledge devotion....
"You then receive an insight bonus on attack rolls and
damage rolls against that creature type for the remainder
of the combat."
=> i dont' recive bonus on attack rolls but.... mmm how cares?
i take the bonus for DAMAGE ROLLS.....
Also, force immunity is exceptionally rare, but it would probably be a good idea to work on some alternative strategies should the situation come up at some point.
Oh, and I could be reading this wrong, but typically 'damage rolls' means per action spent on the attack, IE no multiple stacking of knowledge devotion on each of a greatsword's 2d6, or on each ray from a scorching ray.
Infact, Warmage Edge can't even be applied to spells cast through other classes lol.
Though I have to ask, why not take more Argent Savant? Some of the abilities are fairly useful to help round out your caster, you've already lost the spellcasting level the class robs you of.
i'm afraid it quite hard to find samthing like that.....
i'll continue argent savant if no better classes to get what i'm looking for...
but i can't belive there is nothing to do with 3 free lvls and 3 feats
If you went Wizard 5 instead, you could go...
Wizard 5/Incan 4/FMM 5/War Mage 5/Argent Savant 1 (not necessarily in that order).
The two bonus feats from Incan and the potential free persist spells adds a LOT of power and a lot of versatility to the otherwise specialist FMM. Just make sure you get Iron Will from an Otyugh's Hole and not waste an actual feat slot on it.
You are correct about Knowledge Devotion, by the by, it does add to the damage for magic missile. I also recommend taking Arcane Thesis-Magic Missile, if you haven't already, for the reduced metamagic. (Though, I'm pretty sure that's what you meant by dardi).
I like chain spell, echoing spell, extend spell, persist spell, and fell drain, though not necessarily all for Magic Missile. You can also consider Born of the Three Thunders, if you can get daze immunity fairly easily. There's also the reserve feat Invisible Needle (or whichever it is), which gives you something to do during endurance games.
I personally don't think Eschew Materials is worth it, but other than for situations like Grappling, it never comes up under any of my DM's (everyone just assumes everyone picks up stuff like that as they go).
well i prefere samthing like +x EACH missile and not only to the first...
i'm afraid it quite hard to find samthing like that.....
i'll continue argent savant if no better classes to get what i'm looking for...
but i can't belive there is nothing to do with 3 free lvls and 3 feats
You missed my point, I'll give some examples:
You have, for instance, 5 missiles. You shoot them all at one target, you would deal 5d4+(5*misc plusses)+2d6. Not that great, right? Well, for a single feat it's not bad. If you took those five missiles and shot five different guys, You'd do 1d4+misc bonuses+2d6 to each one. That's considerably better at clearing out larger numbers of guys. When you are up there near the max of your abilities, that's conceivably 1d4+10+2d6 to 14 different enemies, or 14d4+140+2d6 to a single enemy.
Arcane Thesis plus Fell Drain is also a possibility. Giving someone negative levels is always nice.
My own FMM build is usually Sorcerer 5/Mindbender 1/Incantatrix 4/FMM 5/War Mage 5 (not necessarily all in that order).
If you went Wizard 5 instead, you could go...
Wizard 5/Incan 4/FMM 5/War Mage 5/Argent Savant 1 (not necessarily in that order).
The two bonus feats from Incan and the potential free persist spells adds a LOT of power and a lot of versatility to the otherwise specialist FMM. Just make sure you get Iron Will from an Otyugh's Hole and not waste an actual feat slot on it.
You are correct about Knowledge Devotion, by the by, it does add to the damage for magic missile. I also recommend taking Arcane Thesis-Magic Missile, if you haven't already, for the reduced metamagic. (Though, I'm pretty sure that's what you meant by dardi).
I like chain spell, echoing spell, extend spell, persist spell, and fell drain, though not necessarily all for Magic Missile. You can also consider Born of the Three Thunders, if you can get daze immunity fairly easily. There's also the reserve feat Invisible Needle (or whichever it is), which gives you something to do during endurance games.
I personally don't think Eschew Materials is worth it, but other than for situations like Grappling, it never comes up under any of my DM's (everyone just assumes everyone picks up stuff like that as they go).
Incantatrix it's a good idea but i'm a man in the game...
@MacPoyo i know what u mean but i'd like to take samthing better....
Incantatrix it's a good idea but i'm a man in the game...
@MacPoyo i know what u mean but i'd like to take samthing better....
LOL. "Female PC" isn't really a prerequisite of Incantatrix - male versions are called Incantataurs. :P
LOL. "Female PC" isn't really a prerequisite of Incantatrix - male versions are called Incantataurs. :P
oh u are right :D
bytheway i'm in dragonlance... i can't use FR...
Arcane Fusion allows you to combine a 1st and a 4th level spell at one time with a mere 5th level spell. If you take Rapid Metamagic as well as arcane thesis you can cast with the
1st level slot
Magic Missile
4th level slot
Twin Magic Missile
for a total of 3 magic missile castings in 1 standard action. Grab a metamagic rod of quickening and that is 6 magic missile castings with only 2 5th level slots.
-------------------------
Same thing with Greater Arcane fusion but instead you can cast with an 8th level spell, one 4th level spell and one 7th level spell
4th level spell
Twin Magic Missile
7th level spell
Twin Energy Admixture Magic Missile
effectively doing 6 times the damage a normal magic missile can cast with one 8th level slot. Throw in a quicken magic missile rod and that is 12 times the damage compared to normal magic missile.
-----
Now you might want to take the feats empower spell, invisible spell, and city magic metamagic. Empower Spell increases by 50% all damage done by the spell even the boost from knowledge devotion and such. Empower Spell is a +2 metamagic due to arcane thesis drops this to +1. Throw in invisibile spell which is a +0 metamagic, but as long as your total metamagic is >=0, invisible spell becomes -1 due to arcane thesis. Thus invisible spell+empower has no metamagic level adjustment due to arcane thesis.
Same logic with city metamagic which is also +0, but if you tack on other metamagic it becomes effectively -1. If you can plant an oak tree in a city and use acorn of far travel than you are always treated as being in a city and thus an urban enviroment and get the 50% non resistable damage that city metamagic does.
You want Sorcerer instead of wizard due to arcane fusion.
Arcane Fusion allows you to combine a 1st and a 4th level spell at one time with a mere 5th level spell. If you take Rapid Metamagic as well as arcane thesis you can cast with the
1st level slot
Magic Missile
4th level slot
Twin Magic Missile
for a total of 3 magic missile castings in 1 standard action. Grab a metamagic rod of quickening and that is 6 magic missile castings with only 2 5th level slots.
-------------------------
Same thing with Greater Arcane fusion but instead you can cast with an 8th level spell, one 4th level spell and one 7th level spell
4th level spell
Twin Magic Missile
7th level spell
Twin Energy Admixture Magic Missile
effectively doing 6 times the damage a normal magic missile can cast with one 8th level slot. Throw in a quicken magic missile rod and that is 12 times the damage compared to normal magic missile.
-----
Now you might want to take the feats empower spell, invisible spell, and city magic metamagic. Empower Spell increases by 50% all damage done by the spell even the boost from knowledge devotion and such. Empower Spell is a +2 metamagic due to arcane thesis drops this to +1. Throw in invisibile spell which is a +0 metamagic, but as long as your total metamagic is >=0, invisible spell becomes -1 due to arcane thesis. Thus invisible spell+empower has no metamagic level adjustment due to arcane thesis.
Same logic with city metamagic which is also +0, but if you tack on other metamagic it becomes effectively -1. If you can plant an oak tree in a city and use acorn of far travel than you are always treated as being in a city and thus an urban enviroment and get the 50% non resistable damage that city metamagic does.
NO NO NO NO NO.
This has been ruled over TWICE by the sage. It's -1 per Feat, to a minimum of 0. You cannot reduce a cost to negatives. you don't group five feats and give the whole a -5, you apply -1 per feat, minimum of 0.
Force Missile Mage: Key Feats are: Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile), then Empower, Twin, and Quicken. Possibly Admixture.
Make a Fire version of Acid Sheathe.
Get Blistering Spell (+2 dmg/spell level, so +18 if you are using a level 9 slot) with a kicker and Fiery Spell (+1/die of damage).
There's also the Metamagic Tactical Spell from COmplete mage that lets you use metamagic for free on spells.
Bane Spell adds +2d6 and +2 DC. Note that by adding dice, you apply all the dmg kickers of +1/Die to the Bane effect.
Energize Spell gives you a 'free' +50% against Undead, always helpful, but it's Exalted.
Enervate Spell gives you a 'free' +50% against Living Creatures, but it's non-good.
Note that Argent Savant gives you +1 die/dmg for Force spells...which Magic missiles are..at level 5.
that should be enough feats for you.
Note that the errata for the DL warmage changed the + dmg/die to a 1/day effect. It's not continuous.
==Aelryinth
NO NO NO NO NO.
This has been ruled over TWICE by the sage. It's -1 per Feat, to a minimum of 0. You cannot reduce a cost to negatives. you don't group five feats and give the whole a -5, you apply -1 per feat, minimum of 0.
That is what I said
Empower is +2
Invisible Spell is +0
If you combine invisible spell and empower spell (with arcane thesis) you get -1 for empower and -1 for invisible. +2 -1 -1=+0
Thus you are getting all your magic missiles empowered for free for the price of 3 feats. Same thing with city magic instead of invisible spell. Or you can use city magic+twin+invisible spell+empower, which doubles and empowers your spells for only +2 metamagic.
The total metamagic can't be negative, but as long as the net result is +0 or more it works.
Secondly, your wrong on the nature of the Erratta. It's not 1/day, its 1+con bonus times per day (Ergo if the GM enforces that a good way to go would be dwarf with the substitution that lets you use Con for bonus spells, since you'll have to divide resources to get the most out of it.)
That is what I said
Empower is +2
Invisible Spell is +0
If you combine invisible spell and empower spell (with arcane thesis) you get -1 for empower and -1 for invisible. +2 -1 -1=+0
Thus you are getting all your magic missiles empowered for free for the price of 3 feats. Same thing with city magic instead of invisible spell. Or you can use city magic+twin+invisible spell+empower, which doubles and empowers your spells for only +2 metamagic.
The total metamagic can't be negative, but as long as the net result is +0 or more it works.
I was of the understanding something like that would have a +1 total mod, since you can't take each feat to -1, only to a minimum of 0.
I was of the understanding something like that would have a +1 total mod, since you can't take each feat to -1, only to a minimum of 0.
This is a heavily debated topic. I do not own the book myself, but when people who do have outlined this to me, they have said, that the feat only says "you cannot use this to make a spell lower level than it actually is" (or something like that).
from FAQ here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a
Q: If a character with Arcane Thesis (PH2 74) applies multiple metamagic feats to the chosen spell, is the spell’s slot reduced by one level, or by one level per metamagic feat applied?
A: Arcane Thesis reduces the total spell level of a metamagic affected spell by one, regardless of the number of metamagic feats applied. An empowered (+2 levels), still (+1 level), silent (+1 level) fireball would be 6th level.
Q:Can the Arcane Thesis feat (PH2 74) reduce a spell’s
level below the normal level for the spell?
A: No.
:D
it is only added once.... not to every Metamagic feat... but to the Total of all the metamagic feats combined... notice:
from FAQ here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a
:D
PHB2 Errata says otherwise. Errata example shows a reduction to each feat.
Page 74– Arcane Thesis [Substitution]
Should read, “When you apply any metamagic feats
other than Heighten Spell” Thus if you were to
prepare an empowered maximized magic missile
(assuming magic missile is the spell you choose for
your Arcane Thesis), it would be prepared as a 4th
level spell (+1 level for empowered, down from +2;
and +2 levels for maximized, down from +3).
Empower is +2
Invisible Spell is +0
If you combine invisible spell and empower spell (with arcane thesis) you get -1 for empower and -1 for invisible. +2 -1 -1=+0
The total metamagic can't be negative, but as long as the net result is +0 or more it works.
While there is a slight amount of room to argue this is RAW based on the text+errata says, I don't interpret the text+errata this way and the Sage advise doesn't either.
You can't reduce the +0 LA to -1 to reduce another higher LA.
It comes down to how your DM reads RAW and I believe there is substantial room to read the RAW in a way that explicitly limits individual modifiers to LA +0. If so, you end up with Empower at +1 and Invisible stays at +0 for a total LA of +1.
But As far as feets go I highly sugest
Arcane thesis(which you have listed)
Meta magic school focus
Chain spell
Quicken spell
Twin spell
so at level 20 you can pull off in one round with out any other shanagains
a quickend twin magic missle (14)
and a normal Chained twined magic missle (14) + those 14 missles can hit up to 20 other targets
That using up a 4th level spot + a 5th level slot.
Which isn't that bad... granted you prolly will never have 20 opponites so the chain spell works a little less but its still the thought that counts
you could even if you wanted to
pop off a Quickened twin chain magic missle. and a twined chained magic missle depending on how many targets there are...
even with two targets you are hiting the first one for 28 magic missles and the secoundary target for 28 more magic missles.
not sure what the Pre requisites are for any of the PRC's
But As far as feets go I highly sugest
Arcane thesis(which you have listed)
Meta magic school focus
Chain spell
Quicken spell
Twin spell
so at level 20 you can pull off in one round with out any other shanagains
a quickend twin magic missle (14)
and a normal Chained twined magic missle (14) + those 14 missles can hit up to 20 other targets
That using up a 4th level spot + a 5th level slot.
Which isn't that bad... granted you prolly will never have 20 opponites so the chain spell works a little less but its still the thought that counts
you could even if you wanted to
pop off a Quickened twin chain magic missle. and a twined chained magic missle depending on how many targets there are...
even with two targets you are hiting the first one for 28 magic missles and the secoundary target for 28 more magic missles.
Magic Missile doesn't qualify for chain spell. It's not a single target spell.
Chain Missile would, and is a pretty nice spell...starts out at level 3, however. However, since it's a force missile spell, technically you'd get extra Chain Missiles from a FMM build...which could be REALLY nice, if you build to that spell instead of MM. At 10th level of casting, thats 5d6 to main target, +1d6 to surrounding, x3. Start upping your damage and have fun with it.
Your biggest dmg Metas are those that double spell dmg. Twin, Admixture and Repeat, for the most part. Quicken is great as a 'finisher' effect. Empower is wonderful because it's cheap at +1 with Thesis. Energize is only good against undead, and Banespell against a specific enemy, but both are 'free'.
==Aelryinth
MINOR SHAPESHIFT
give me Vigor: Temporary hit points equal to your HD
so i can use ledy's gambit that is by far the best to add pure damage to my MM...now i can make at lvl 20:
((1d4 + 1 + 3(war mage) + 1(argent savant) + 5 (knowledge devotion) + 10 (ledy's gambit) )) *7 (N° of MM) *1.5 (empower) * 2 (twined) = (22.5 average each MM) * 7 *1.5 *2 = 472.5 .... quicken and u got a 945 avd
236 only with empower... for a spell that use a slot of 1 lvl....
consider that with my stats of knowledge i can easy know if it's better to change "force" in to another energy (fire, cold, light, acid) if my enemy fear them... and i make even more damage....
thx to all for the help