Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Maethorial Aug 28, 2012 21:56:33	Hello! So I'm quite new to tabletop gaming, with only two D&D campaigns under my belt. Both of which I played the main healing cleric, and while I enjoyed that greatly, I really want to try something different. My last campaign I enjoyed doing odd things, though I was technically neutral good so I had to tone this down greatly. I also loved climbing stuff, because I was a buffing cleric archer, but I didn't have any real skill points to be doing all the silly maneuvers I ended up getting away with (call it beginners luck). Now I've set my mind on being a chaotic neutral playboy, and I'm leaning more towards being a rogue due to my tendency to want to, as I said, climb **** and jump over everything. However, the main thing I want to do is talk any npc (or my other teammates should I so please) out of their knickers.  And, ya know, talk my way in or out of anything like a proper con artist.  The main ideology for my rogue is that he either fell in love with the goddess Sune, so instead of showering others with compliments to show his devotion like any good Heartwarder would do, he believes he must shower others with his near perfect body. Or, he is simply devoted to her subservient deity, Sharess, which would explain his lustful ways anyways.  If I am a rogue, I figured I'd have a rapier as my main weapon, and either a whip for my second hand (since it's Sune's weapon) or simple throwing knives. I'll most likely be some type of human or elf, depending on which is better for my purpose.  This is where I am running into problems: I've never been a rogue. Plain and simple. But I have been reading up on them. As a con artist (my goal), I know for two of my feats I will need The Force of Personality- since I want to have high Charisma- and Weapon Finesse. I am unsure what more I would take after these that would help me be diplomatic while still being able to help in battles. I also know that I will need to put skill points into Bluff and Diplomacy, and it's been recommended that I also choose Disguise and Disable Device. (Will disable device be needed since there will be another rogue in the party?) Though that leaves very little room for climbing, open lock, hide, and move silently, which are all things a rogue should have, I've been told. I've also had the thought that I should know several languages to further my con artist ways, and thought that being a bard could fix this problem? Looking into both Sune and Sharess however, I immediately noticed their mutual domains, Trickery and Charm. Both of which would serve me well as a con artist. So here's the big question: Should I be a cleric if I want to completely focus on being a con artist, and if I do, would I be at all useful in battles if I went this route? A question leading off of that is, would multiclassing a rogue/cleric give me the build I'm looking for? Or is that crazy talk?  I know mixing the two would improve my weak fort and will saves, at least. Though the final question for everything though is, since I know nothing about this topic, is there a prestige class that would give me what I want as well?  Please and thank you for any help you guys can give!
#2 Andarious-Rosethorn Aug 28, 2012 22:24:34	If you want to play a spell caster, I doubt many of us would try and talk you out of it. Beguiler's a solid move as is Cleric, no need to multiclass just pick the right domains. For a melee character (a change of pace for you?), I'd reccomend a Daring Outlaw build. It's simple, acrobatic and con artisty. Your abilities that matter in order are probably Dex, Int, Cha if you do something like Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17 with the Daring Outlaw (Complete Scoundrel) feat. Bluff, Climb and Jump are class skills for both classes the whole way, as are Use Rope, Tumble, Balance, Escape Artist,  Sense Motive, and Swim. I bolded skills I think are STRONG. You're not needed as the primary Skill Monkey from the sounds of it, so be a scoundrel. Be the groups Face, and a combatant to be reconned with that uses sublety and guile to win in a fight. For feats may I reccomend Martial Study (Cloak of Deception), Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), and Shadow Blade. In order they let do the following. Once per combat, as a swift action, become invisible (as greater invisibility) for one round. Deal an additional 2d6 sneak attack damage. Add your Dex modifier to your damage with certain weapons (unfortunately, not Rapier, but Shortsword and Dagger are both on the list). You could consider two weapon fighting a strong choice as well, particularly at level 1 where you don't have many great options. Your non-combat side is mostly handled by skills and skill tricks (see Complete Scoundrel, these will help you IN and OUT of combat). This is an archetype I've considered playing for some time. I've got some role play inspired by one of my favorite western animations, Road to El Dorado, as well as by The Princess Bride. There's a ton of great media of the swashbuckling scoundrel genre that this sort of character slips right into. Have fun, whatever you decide on.
#3 draco1119 Aug 29, 2012 1:53:03	If you're not set on the human or elf, you could take one of the halfling races (Strongheart is a perennial fave) along the PHB2 feat Confound the Big Folk. Andarious has a good suggestion for classes, as well. Tempest also had a good build using Daring Outlaw that had no rogue levels. I don't remember if it was in a suggestion thread or one of the Weekly Optimization threads (which you can find in his sig).
#4 Omen_of_Peace Aug 29, 2012 8:46:02	Please tell us which books you can draw from. Otherwise we will waste time suggesting stuff you cannot use. - Changelings are the ultimate con artists. And it's even better when it comes to seducing, since you can be that woman's husband for just a little while. The Changeling Rogue substitution level in Races of Eberron is absolutely awesome for that. - Factotum (Dungeonscape) is a really good class for acrobats/con artists as well. You get to add your intelligence to your physical skills. - Bards make very good Con artists as well (look at the Glibness spell!). Beguiler was already suggested. - Rogue and Cleric don't mix especially well most of the time. - If you're Human or Changeling, you can take the Able Learner (Races of Destiny) feat at 1st level, so that cross-class skill ranks cost only 1 point. With just one level of Rogue or Factotum, you can easily keep your key skills maxed, that way.
#5 Krusk Aug 29, 2012 15:33:58	I'd say beguiller is the perfect fit for what you want.  Also consider cleric 20 on its own. Just take some domains that focus on what you want to do. Maybe luck?
#6 deoxhydroxinate Aug 31, 2012 15:40:09	+1 for Beguiler. What might be really interesting though is utilizing the Complete Scoundrel (IIRC) and picking up a bunch of the Luck feats for rerolls on pretty much anything.
#7 radicaltaoist Aug 31, 2012 19:21:09	Are psionics allowed?
#8 Andarious-Rosethorn Aug 31, 2012 21:58:35	True story, Face First is a fantastic Con artist.