How to make a better Sniper - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How to make a better Sniper

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xandor_tikroth
Jan 30, 2010 19:42:58 So I'm crafting up a new character for a 3.5 campaign. I've got myself a Githzerai (the DM is letting me do a LA buyoff, and has dropped the LA by one for skipping the psionic abilities and power resistance) Rogue 5/Ranger 2/Deepwood Sniper 4.

I've got a pretty good setup with my stats and everything. Haven't set up my skills yet, but here's my thing. I'm obviously a ranged attacker, so I like to be as far away from the action as possible. Devious DM's being what they are, he'll probably try to stop this from happening. So what is the best way to counteract this? I can only use items from the PHB, DM's Handbook and Arms & Equipment Guide. I'm pretty sure that I'm allowed to use any class or feat that I qualify for, but I'm not able to take Flaws.
#2
NiteCyper
Jan 30, 2010 20:11:43 Fighting the DM is bad.
#3
xandor_tikroth
Jan 30, 2010 20:14:03 Wat?

I'm not trying to fight the DM at all. I was just letting you guys know what I had available to me to pull from. All I'm trying to do is find a way around an ambush.
#4
bruceleeroy
Jan 30, 2010 21:10:05 Swift action movement can help. Sudden Leap (ToB), Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker(MiC), Travel Devotion(CC)... Hmm. I'm sure there's more. Immediate movement would be better. Evasive Reflexes (ToB) is an immediate reaction 5' step. Just make sure you have armor spikes or gauntlets so you still threaten with a ranged weapon in your hands.

Super high spot/listen checks. Bind a soulmeld via a feat, looking for the ones that give you +4 to a few skills. I think spot and listen are in there.

By the way, if you're getting LA buyoff, consider the Marrulurk from Sandstorm. Awesome small sized fox-man-critter, great for an archer base if you're starting at ECL 4 or higher.
#5
snakeman830
Jan 30, 2010 21:18:40 Cragtop Archer 3 will let you stay incredibly far away from the action.
#6
bruceleeroy
Jan 30, 2010 21:19:56 If that's relevant to your game. Dungeoncrawling, not so much. If it's an open terrain game, then badass. You'll just need to pump your spot check that much more.
#7
NiteCyper
Jan 30, 2010 22:30:30
I like to be as far away from the action as possible. Devious DM's being what they are, he'll probably try to stop this from happening. So what is the best way to counteract this?

I'm not trying to fight the DM at all. ... All I'm trying to do is find a way around an ambush.

If your DM employs strategies that specifically counter you being far away from everyone else, you're fighting each other.

addendum: 30-01-10, 20:33, -8 GMT, a strategy is only as good as your DM allows. If you're kicking ass with precision damage, then they start sending in Plants, Constructs, Undead, etc., then you get class features that let you deal precision damage to those types, then they counter that, it's an arms race.

addendum 2: 30-01-10, 20:35, -8 GMT, although, in that example, I don't know what step you could take to counter you taking the step to perform precision damage against those types, and countering that would be one step too far (unless you were really outshining your team-mates). Basically, it's a bad example.

Now my example is, you attack from afar, your GM sends an ambush, you take, say, Armor Spikes + Evasive Reflexes (+ Combat Reflexes) + Spot/Listen boosts, then your GM...Yeah, maybe I'm going too far.

addendum 3: 30-01-10, 20:41, -8 GMT, the best option would be the Wizard variant from Player's Handbook II, Immediate Magic for the Conjurer, Abrupt Jaunt, immediate-action teleports. You could nab these with a dip, but it's a step off the straight-and-narrow that doesn't look pretty on a roll-up nor for smooth advancement of class features; stating the obvious; just an idea to redeem this post.

addendum 4: 30-01-10, 20:44, -8 GMT, the Quick Reconnoiter feat, Hear the Unseen skill-trick?, Mindsight feat (Shedu Crown soulmeld? Telepathy with an Urban Companion (see below, Ranger 4)?)

addendum 5: 30-01-10, 20:56, -8 GMT, why are you taking the Githzerai? For the bonus to DEX? If that's the case, I have another race for you that'll blow your mind.

Reference(s):
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/200...
yfrog.com/6zshs60n61beguilerp
#8
Contranym
Jan 31, 2010 13:53:06 Please.. Please don't say Beguiler..
#9
NiteCyper
Jan 31, 2010 14:22:22
Please.. Please don't say Beguiler..

¿Por qué?

addendum: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 12:24, also, it's too late. I had already placed it in the references.

Reference(s):
www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm

#10
xandor_tikroth
Feb 02, 2010 1:38:37 Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that you have a race that'll blow my mind. What's the name of the race and what sourcebook is it in?

Also, I'm looking at a sniper, and I don't see how a Beguiler would help me with that. I'm thinking about just taking a level or two in a prestige Ninja class to give me some Hide in Plain Sight.
#11
TifRhal
Feb 02, 2010 6:09:58 Might want to look into 2 levels of soulknife then take level of soulbow look at taking psionic shot and greater psionic short nothing like adding 4d6 damage, also making an arrow out of your own mind that disappears 1 round later makes for a mean sniping assassin. not needing a weapon is also a bonus seeing how you can create a mind blade or soul arrows can use the rest of your money for other items. look at the mystic ranger from dragon magazine #336 and spells in spell compendium worth noting are Hawkeye, Hunter's Mercy, guided shot, Sniper's shot there are more.
For hide in plain sight I would look into collar of umbral metamorphosis page 156 tome of magic gives some nice stuff look at the 22,000 gp one it gives you the dark template. Greater shroud of night same book next page is a very nice item for fast travel.
#12
phaedrusxy
Feb 02, 2010 13:26:22
Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that you have a race that'll blow my mind. What's the name of the race and what sourcebook is it in?

Also, I'm looking at a sniper, and I don't see how a Beguiler would help me with that. I'm thinking about just taking a level or two in a prestige Ninja class to give me some Hide in Plain Sight.

There is a RACE called Beguiler. I think it's from the Shining South book. They have a LA, but it is listed as cohort only. It is pretty insane for LA +1, though, even as a cohort.

#13
dacman
Feb 03, 2010 17:53:16 I'm going to advise against Soulbow because you can't put many enhancements on your bow without a massive investment in soulknife levels.
If you want HiPS, try getting into Shadowdancer, it gives it to you at first level, IIRC. the darkvision and shadow companion will keep you from getting into trouble, and if that fails, the dimension-door can get you out.
#14
snakeman830
Feb 03, 2010 19:56:43
I'm going to advise against Soulbow because you can't put many enhancements on your bow without a massive investment in soulknife levels.
If you want HiPS, try getting into Shadowdancer, it gives it to you at first level, IIRC. the darkvision and shadow companion will keep you from getting into trouble, and if that fails, the dimension-door can get you out.

Soulknife and Soulbow only stack for enhancement bonus, not the weapon qualities.

Although, if you do decide you want Soulbow, take all 10 levels. An infinite supply of Lucky Wounding arrows is nasty. Rarely missing Con damage isn't something that's brushed off easily.
#15
empirate
Feb 04, 2010 5:28:13 Regarding your build:

You play a sniper and say you want to be far away from the action. How does that fit with 5 levels of Rogue? Ranged sneak attacking is much harder to do than melee (no flanking, must get the enemy flat-footed), and the range at which you can do it is capped at a crappy 30'. Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't you try to get your bonus damage somewhere else?

I'd definitely recommend Peerless Archer 3 for the Power Shot ability (like Power Attack, 1:1 attack for damage only, though), and getting yourself a Splitting bow. That's a +3 enhancement, so it's pricey, but it doubles your number of attacks! Also, the Penetrating Shot feat to get even more effective attacks is a must at later levels. Another feat to consider is Woodland Archer, for that juicy cumulative +4 to attack after missed shots (easily convertible into damage via Power Shot).
#16
elthenar
Apr 08, 2010 1:50:17 Sneak attacking at a distance is easy. Just make yourself a Sneak attack/wizard hybrid of some sort and cast Sniper Eye. It is 1st level and lets you sneak attack at any range. It only lasts a round but as a first level spell it is persistifiable. Imp Invisibility, Greater Blink or even Grease are reliable spells to render an opponent flat footed once he knows where you are.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xandor_tikroth Jan 30, 2010 19:42:58	So I'm crafting up a new character for a 3.5 campaign. I've got myself a Githzerai (the DM is letting me do a LA buyoff, and has dropped the LA by one for skipping the psionic abilities and power resistance) Rogue 5/Ranger 2/Deepwood Sniper 4. I've got a pretty good setup with my stats and everything. Haven't set up my skills yet, but here's my thing. I'm obviously a ranged attacker, so I like to be as far away from the action as possible. Devious DM's being what they are, he'll probably try to stop this from happening. So what is the best way to counteract this? I can only use items from the PHB, DM's Handbook and Arms & Equipment Guide. I'm pretty sure that I'm allowed to use any class or feat that I qualify for, but I'm not able to take Flaws.
#2 NiteCyper Jan 30, 2010 20:11:43	Fighting the DM is bad.
#3 xandor_tikroth Jan 30, 2010 20:14:03	Wat? I'm not trying to fight the DM at all. I was just letting you guys know what I had available to me to pull from. All I'm trying to do is find a way around an ambush.
#4 bruceleeroy Jan 30, 2010 21:10:05	Swift action movement can help. Sudden Leap (ToB), Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker(MiC), Travel Devotion(CC)... Hmm. I'm sure there's more. Immediate movement would be better. Evasive Reflexes (ToB) is an immediate reaction 5' step. Just make sure you have armor spikes or gauntlets so you still threaten with a ranged weapon in your hands. Super high spot/listen checks. Bind a soulmeld via a feat, looking for the ones that give you +4 to a few skills. I think spot and listen are in there. By the way, if you're getting LA buyoff, consider the Marrulurk from Sandstorm. Awesome small sized fox-man-critter, great for an archer base if you're starting at ECL 4 or higher.
#5 snakeman830 Jan 30, 2010 21:18:40	Cragtop Archer 3 will let you stay incredibly far away from the action.
#6 bruceleeroy Jan 30, 2010 21:19:56	If that's relevant to your game. Dungeoncrawling, not so much. If it's an open terrain game, then badass. You'll just need to pump your spot check that much more.
#7 NiteCyper Jan 30, 2010 22:30:30	I like to be as far away from the action as possible. Devious DM's being what they are, he'll probably try to stop this from happening. So what is the best way to counteract this? I'm not trying to fight the DM at all. ... All I'm trying to do is find a way around an ambush. If your DM employs strategies that specifically counter you being far away from everyone else, you're fighting each other. addendum: 30-01-10, 20:33, -8 GMT, a strategy is only as good as your DM allows. If you're kicking ass with precision damage, then they start sending in Plants, Constructs, Undead, etc., then you get class features that let you deal precision damage to those types, then they counter that, it's an arms race. addendum 2: 30-01-10, 20:35, -8 GMT, although, in that example, I don't know what step you could take to counter you taking the step to perform precision damage against those types, and countering that would be one step too far (unless you were really outshining your team-mates). Basically, it's a bad example. Now my example is, you attack from afar, your GM sends an ambush, you take, say, Armor Spikes + Evasive Reflexes (+ Combat Reflexes) + Spot/Listen boosts, then your GM...Yeah, maybe I'm going too far. addendum 3: 30-01-10, 20:41, -8 GMT, the best option would be the Wizard variant from Player's Handbook II, Immediate Magic for the Conjurer, Abrupt Jaunt, immediate-action teleports. You could nab these with a dip, but it's a step off the straight-and-narrow that doesn't look pretty on a roll-up nor for smooth advancement of class features; stating the obvious; just an idea to redeem this post. addendum 4: 30-01-10, 20:44, -8 GMT, the Quick Reconnoiter feat, Hear the Unseen skill-trick?, Mindsight feat (Shedu Crown soulmeld? Telepathy with an Urban Companion (see below, Ranger 4)?) addendum 5: 30-01-10, 20:56, -8 GMT, why are you taking the Githzerai? For the bonus to DEX? If that's the case, I have another race for you that'll blow your mind. Reference(s): www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/200... yfrog.com/6zshs60n61beguilerp
#8 Contranym Jan 31, 2010 13:53:06	Please.. Please don't say Beguiler..
#9 NiteCyper Jan 31, 2010 14:22:22	Please.. Please don't say Beguiler.. ¿Por qué? addendum: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 12:24, also, it's too late. I had already placed it in the references. Reference(s): www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm
#10 xandor_tikroth Feb 02, 2010 1:38:37	Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that you have a race that'll blow my mind. What's the name of the race and what sourcebook is it in? Also, I'm looking at a sniper, and I don't see how a Beguiler would help me with that. I'm thinking about just taking a level or two in a prestige Ninja class to give me some Hide in Plain Sight.
#11 TifRhal Feb 02, 2010 6:09:58	Might want to look into 2 levels of soulknife then take level of soulbow look at taking psionic shot and greater psionic short nothing like adding 4d6 damage, also making an arrow out of your own mind that disappears 1 round later makes for a mean sniping assassin. not needing a weapon is also a bonus seeing how you can create a mind blade or soul arrows can use the rest of your money for other items. look at the mystic ranger from dragon magazine #336 and spells in spell compendium worth noting are Hawkeye, Hunter's Mercy, guided shot, Sniper's shot there are more. For hide in plain sight I would look into collar of umbral metamorphosis page 156 tome of magic gives some nice stuff look at the 22,000 gp one it gives you the dark template. Greater shroud of night same book next page is a very nice item for fast travel.
#12 phaedrusxy Feb 02, 2010 13:26:22	Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that you have a race that'll blow my mind. What's the name of the race and what sourcebook is it in? Also, I'm looking at a sniper, and I don't see how a Beguiler would help me with that. I'm thinking about just taking a level or two in a prestige Ninja class to give me some Hide in Plain Sight. There is a RACE called Beguiler. I think it's from the Shining South book. They have a LA, but it is listed as cohort only. It is pretty insane for LA +1, though, even as a cohort.
#13 dacman Feb 03, 2010 17:53:16	I'm going to advise against Soulbow because you can't put many enhancements on your bow without a massive investment in soulknife levels. If you want HiPS, try getting into Shadowdancer, it gives it to you at first level, IIRC. the darkvision and shadow companion will keep you from getting into trouble, and if that fails, the dimension-door can get you out.
#14 snakeman830 Feb 03, 2010 19:56:43	I'm going to advise against Soulbow because you can't put many enhancements on your bow without a massive investment in soulknife levels. If you want HiPS, try getting into Shadowdancer, it gives it to you at first level, IIRC. the darkvision and shadow companion will keep you from getting into trouble, and if that fails, the dimension-door can get you out. Soulknife and Soulbow only stack for enhancement bonus, not the weapon qualities. Although, if you do decide you want Soulbow, take all 10 levels. An infinite supply of Lucky Wounding arrows is nasty. Rarely missing Con damage isn't something that's brushed off easily.
#15 empirate Feb 04, 2010 5:28:13	Regarding your build: You play a sniper and say you want to be far away from the action. How does that fit with 5 levels of Rogue? Ranged sneak attacking is much harder to do than melee (no flanking, must get the enemy flat-footed), and the range at which you can do it is capped at a crappy 30'. Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't you try to get your bonus damage somewhere else? I'd definitely recommend Peerless Archer 3 for the Power Shot ability (like Power Attack, 1:1 attack for damage only, though), and getting yourself a Splitting bow. That's a +3 enhancement, so it's pricey, but it doubles your number of attacks! Also, the Penetrating Shot feat to get even more effective attacks is a must at later levels. Another feat to consider is Woodland Archer, for that juicy cumulative +4 to attack after missed shots (easily convertible into damage via Power Shot).
#16 elthenar Apr 08, 2010 1:50:17	Sneak attacking at a distance is easy. Just make yourself a Sneak attack/wizard hybrid of some sort and cast Sniper Eye. It is 1st level and lets you sneak attack at any range. It only lasts a round but as a first level spell it is persistifiable. Imp Invisibility, Greater Blink or even Grease are reliable spells to render an opponent flat footed once he knows where you are.